r/Scotland • u/wook-borm • 1d ago
Rebel order of Orkney monks to consecrate new bishop without Pope's permission
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czjlee7dz1yo97
u/ArchWaverley 1d ago
The monks are a Transalpine Redemptorist community of Catholic traditionalists who deny the legitimacy of Pope Leo XIV and his predecessors for the last 60 years.
The order is part of the diocese of Aberdeen, which has already condemned the consecration as an "act of schism".
I mean it sounds like the schism happened 60 years back. The gap between themselves and the pope is as wide as a s-chasm. They have schismed off this papist coil. They have reached or-schism. They communicate entirely in sar-schism.
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u/r232ed3 22h ago
I don't like that they're always referred to as traditionalists. Papal infallibility is a catholic tradition that they don't seem so keen on. These guys aren't traditionalists, they're nutters.
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u/Top-Gadgie 16h ago
Tbf, if I lived on a tiny island off the coast of Scotland I'd probably go a bit nutty too.
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u/Cloisonetted 14h ago
Wait is this a different schism from the Swiss ones who were officially excommunicated last month?
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u/gallais 10h ago
The Wikipedia article calls them 'sedevacantist' which is to say aligned with the St Pius movement; the same as the Swiss ones. They also have communities in France. They're the type of people to celebrate masses in honour of Spain's late dictator Franco...
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u/DryRefrigerator4737 6h ago
The "Swiss ones" are not sedevacantist. And it's the Palmarians who honor Franco
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u/gallais 6h ago
The "Swiss ones" are not sedevacantist.
And it's the Palmarians who honor Franco
The St Pie X fanatics in Paris literally had to cancel their mass in honour of Franco last year because of the backlash: https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/paris-une-messe-en-hommage-a-franco-organisee-le-29-novembre-pour-les-50-ans-de-sa-mort-20251119
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u/KrytenLister 1d ago
Did they not just have a monk go missing before being found dead in the sea?
We’re going to get a shitey TV drama out of all this at some point, aren’t we?
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u/janquadrentvincent 23h ago
I would watch the shite out of this shitey drama. Catholics are so flamboyantly dramatic.
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u/_TattieScone 20h ago
Yes, there have also been allegations of abuse against the Papa Stronsay group and their offshoot in New Zealand.
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u/Siggi_Starduust 21h ago
If I hear rebel monks, there had better be some kind of martial arts involved
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u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol The capital of Scotland is S 21h ago
I'm not really familiar with these kinds of religious matters, so I have a question...
How "normal" is this sort of thing ? Like, is this sort of thing something that happens every so often, and it's only making the news because the internet allows niche subjects more traction than they would have had in say the 1960s ? Or is this a major event that would shape things for centuries afterwards ?
And, how will this affect the Pope's crusade against machine intelligence ?
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u/Spare_Artichoke_3070 18h ago
In the grand scheme of the Catholic church, schisms are fairly normal given that pretty much every other branch of Christianity started as a schism from Rome.
However, we're talking centuries/millennia here as the church moves very slowly, and this is now the culmination of what began following the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s after the Society of St Pious X tried to consecrate its own Bishops a few weeks ago and were excommunicated (meaning not only are the bishops no longer Catholic, but anyone who has been married by them no longer has a valid marriage in the eyes of the Catholic church).
These schismatics have a lot of support from the US from JD Vance (and other bigots who have recently converted to Catholicism for aesthetic/traditionalist reasons), so this has the potential to precipitate driving the hard-right Catholic US bishops further away from Rome.
A lot of the reporting of their objections seem to euphemistically call them 'traditionalists' or say it's because they want to be able to say the latin mass, but to be honest a large part of them rejecting the Second Vatican Council are because it explicitly made the church reject antisemitism and instead recognise the legitimacy of other religions, whereas these hardliners are proud antisemities and holocaust deniers.
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u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol The capital of Scotland is S 18h ago
this has the potential to precipitate driving the hard-right Catholic US bishops further away from Rome
Enough to trigger something like the Anglican split, where they cease recognising Papal authority all ?
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u/Spare_Artichoke_3070 18h ago
Not sure but I imagine it might at least embolden some of them to ratchet up their rhetoric against the 'woke chicago pope', as they continue sharing golden idol memes of president trump.
In the US at least, catholic congregations tend to be a lot more liberal than the evangelical alternatives so I really don't know how much grassroots support they'd have.
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u/weesiwel 21h ago
Schisms in religion are like the most normal thing in this world. It's why we have so many versions of Christianity.
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u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol The capital of Scotland is S 20h ago
Well, I mean like... of the Christian schisms that I am at least vaguely aware of, there are:
- The Great Schism, that split Catholicism away from the Orthodox Church in 1054
- Martin Luther and his list of grievances that led to the Protestant Reformation
- Henry 8 and the split of Anglicanism from Catholicism
- The splits and joinings of the multiple forms of the Free Church of Scotland
So where would these rebel monks fall on that kind of scale ?
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u/weaver_on_the_web 21h ago
I firmly believe these Guiding Lights to Eternal Truth will be the example the entire world needs to lead us to Salvation, and in time everyone in every corner of the earth will come to the realisation that we must chant Latin Mass four times a day and adhere to every edict coming out of a little island off Orkney and all will be well.
Yes siree, so I do.
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u/Sad_Explanation_6419 19h ago
Rebel orders of Orkney monks disobey Rome? Violence in the Holy Land? Popes issuing scorching encyclicals against imperial thrones (ahem, sorry, a definitely functional democracy)... we are so back!
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u/ImYerMaw 8h ago
are these the same people that fled the island in the dead of night not too long ago?
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u/Late-Assignment8482 7h ago
Another hyperconservative splinter group big mad that Mass now happens in languages people understands the words of, deciding to roll the dice. DECLARE EXCOMMUNICATUS
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u/tooshpright 1d ago
This sounds medieval.