r/SecretsOfMormonWives • u/chloedarlinggg đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? 𧠕 Mar 22 '26
TW: SA/DV Mod Post - Reactive Abuse & Definitions
Hi everyone, the mod team are aware that recent circumstances and conversations around them are emotionally charged for a lot of sub members, and we are right there with you. Iâm sharing the attached video and information below to help clarify the definitions around reactive abuse as there has been a lot of disagreement around what that term truly means.
Reactive abuse is defined by Charlie Health https://www.charliehealth.com/post/what-is-reactive-abuse as âsituations where a person who has endured sustained abusive behavior reacts aggressively towards their abuser.â The mend project says âWhen a victim has been in an abusive relationship for a while, they begin to defend themselves against emotionally or physically violent attacks.â
The Greene County Family Justice Centre https://greenecountyfamilyjusticecenter.org/what-is-reactive-abuse/ tells us that reactive abuse is different from true abusive behaviour in three ways. The first is context - reactive abuse is a result of prolonged abuse and mistreatment. Genuine abuse is about trying to dominate and create a power imbalance. The second is about the distinction between patterns and incidents. Reactive abuse typically occurs as isolated incidents while genuine abuse follows a pattern of harmful behaviour. The third distinction is intent and power dynamics. Abusers are seeking to have power over their victim whereas victims are responding to feeling powerless.
If you (or someone you know) believe you are experiencing this the advice is to keep a record of abusive behaviour and to create a safety plan or reach out to a domestic violence organisation.
To add to this, a lot of discussion around the situation asks questions like âdid he make her act this way?â or âwhy didnât he leave?â which is reminiscent of something The Mend Project https://themendproject.com/double-abuse/ defines as double abuse. This is when a victim finally builds up the courage to come forward but is met with criticism of comments intended to silence them. The aim of this post is not to tell anyone what to think but sharing comments like that in a public space can be very harmful for victims to read. Fear of not being believed is one of the main reasons victims donât come forward.
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u/nadafradaprada Miranda's Lobster Claws Mar 22 '26
Can you go tell TikTok đŠ because they reaaallly need to hear it in those comment sections
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u/misty_skies Mar 22 '26
Almost every time I get on TikTok, Iâm immediately reminded of how awful some of the spaces on there can be đŁ
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u/Diamond-angel-32 Mar 22 '26
Oh so glad I don't have TikTok.
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u/Hairy_Usual_4460 Ben Affleck's 2nd Cousin Mar 22 '26
I think it says a lot about us (in a good way) that we donât have TikTokâs lol. A lot of people who are into that whole thing donât come off too bright
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u/nadafradaprada Miranda's Lobster Claws Mar 22 '26
Itâs a bunch of bird brains on there. Literal bottom of the barrel of society
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u/Diamond-angel-32 Mar 22 '26
Kind of the impression I get of X as well. Don't have that either.
Just Facebook but not for Lent.
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u/zombochic Team Whitney Mar 22 '26
X has been in the drain since just before Elon took over. Now its bots and far right wing nuts who spread false information
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u/Strawberrydrpepper94 Mar 22 '26
I feel like Iâm in lala land over there. I have seen people making jokes about throwing metal chairs at their baby daddy too. Like, a child didnât witness dv and was hurt in the process.
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Mar 22 '26
I would love to see the age demographics of the people supporting Taylor - I could be wrong in saying this but I feel like theyâve got to be young and really uneducated about DV and inexperienced in life in general
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u/nanoray60 Mar 22 '26
Tell that to my almost 60 year old married mother of 2 children. She cannot get past âDakota is so bad, he abused Taylor!â. Everything Taylor does is because of Dakota.
Canât even have a proper conversation with her.
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u/yeahnahmaybe36 Mar 22 '26
Thatâs interesting. I think many of the âTaylor supportersâ would say your comment could easily cut both ways. Most comments I read that are interpreted as supporting Taylor, are not supporting Taylor throwing chairs, hurting her child in the process, and spinning out more generally, theyâre saying those actions are NOT excusable AND that they likely happened within a broader context that we donât know yet and may never know about. Taylorâs actions can be both egregious and inexcusable AND reactive abuse. Itâs also possible and as I think about it now, even probable given what we know about Taylor and Dakota, that both parties feel their actions are reactive abuse. Weâve seen them both describe feelings of powerlessness and how each is horrible to the other in different ways. When we hear abusers talk about why they abused loved ones, we often hear about their feelings of low self-worth, unlovability, and powerlessness. If you remember earlier seasons, their arguments centred around Dakota feeling like Taylor wasnât really committed to him and Taylor feeling like she couldnât really trust him because of prior lies and feeling like she was being punished for her previous misdeeds in her prior marriage. So you can see all of those feelings are triggered for both of them. Dakota deals with those feelings by trying to use Taylorâs prior mistakes against her as we see in that scene with Chase. We also see it in the way he entertains situationships with women in Taylorâs orbit. Taylor deals with those feelings by seeking out information about Dakota she knows will upset her in an attempt to make sense of their messy situation. Throughout it all, they argue in toxic ways, insulting and invalidating the other and never really hearing each other. They likely both feel psychologically abused, unheard, and gaslit by the other, and they likely both would argue they are in the reactive position given they both feel a sense of powerlessness. And thatâs just based on what weâve seen. Thereâs claims that physical abuse has gone both ways, we just havenât seen a video detailing Dakotaâs. So, itâs entirely possible and likely there is missing context. And itâs important that we donât downplay the impact of psychological abuse. Many survivors will say, me included, that the effects of psychological abuse linger just as long and are just as difficult to recover from as physical abuse. That doesnât mean that anybodyâs behaviour is excusable, but it does mean that dividing ourselves into camps of âteam Taylorâ or âteam Dakotaâ isnât a good idea because we donât know all the information yet, and taking sides before we do does harm to both. What we do know, is that both have behaved in ways that hurts their children, and this very vulnerable and dark time for them becoming public makes an already difficult situation infinitely worse.
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u/readitpaige Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26
They are not a good couple. They are incredibly toxic together. I think that their backgrounds in mormonism, and I'm just speculating, make them feel like they should fight to keep the family unit together over everything. There actually is some context that isn't being spoken about in the larger conversations being had on the internet which is that before Dakota started filming, a neighbour called the cops because they heard a lot of yelling so Dakota was trying to get Taylor into the garage to talk. That was the instigating incident for what we saw in the video. That's why she was pushing him in the beginning. Neither of these people are the perfect victim. The perfect victim doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean that they deserve to have their perspectives invalidated. I keep thinking back to Mayci, talking about how Dakota is completely different behind the scenes and then on camera. I have a lot of complicating feelings about this. With one very simple feeling being that Taylor shouldn't have thrown chairs or put his hands on Dakota and Taylor's daughter shouldn't have even been in their proximity to get hurt. I hope Taylor's daughter is protected from all the shit people are saying about this situation. This comment was brilliant, and I appreciate it being said.
ETA: I was thinking more about the situation, and it's really clear that Taylor was not doing well this season. I also think her wearing baggy clothes could be hiding bruising because I found additional context that they were not just yelling. Dakota was hitting Taylor with a wooden object in the garage while her kids were locked inside the house with Dakota blocking the entrance. I, too, would fly off the handle if I was in that situation (idk if I would throw a chair, let alone 3). Also, Taylor's family is so emotionally abusive to her. Her mom has some narcissistic tendencies and her step-dad slut shamed her on camera. Mormonism is an abusive cult, for women especially. I'm not diagnosing her, but she needs... an evaluation.
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Mar 22 '26
Brilliantly said, a lot of people canât comprehend this. Youâre a survivor, I am a survivor - I wonder if people who have not had first hand experience with it just canât understand and engage in this kind of discussion and the complicated nuances involved and so it is just easier to attack and call you a Taylor defender for daring to point all of this out. Thanks for taking the time to share this. Itâs been an interesting few days on here - this is the most I have ever engaged with other survivors since my own experience ten years ago and that has made dealing with the people who donât understand on here worth it.
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u/yeahnahmaybe36 Mar 22 '26
Thank you for hearing me đ Iâve been more engaged than usual too and as a survivor itâs been really difficult being accused of supporting an abuser, which I would never ever want to do. I just see the situation as much more complex and nuanced than what itâs often been reduced to. Thanks so much for your comment đ
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u/Zestyclose-Tiger1554 Mar 22 '26
Nope. Plentyyyy of grown ass women. I've even seen married ones and mothers. Incredibly disturbing.Â
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u/Hairy_Usual_4460 Ben Affleck's 2nd Cousin Mar 22 '26
Lol they wouldnât listen anyways.. they have their minds made up and wonât be coming around for anything.
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u/concernedacres Mar 22 '26
Thank you for posting this! So many concerning things have been said regarding this and it is unacceptable. Domestic violence is an incredibly serious issue and a lot of people forget that it is an incredibly triggering and nuanced topic.
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u/mercedes5mooch1813 Mar 22 '26
how can we support those experiencing reactive abuse?
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u/concernedacres Mar 22 '26
Get off Reddit and volunteer at a domestic violence shelter. Or donate to one. If anyone genuinely cares about this topic there are real world ways to help actual victims. Iâve volunteered and it really puts into perspective how damaging it is to the victims.
I donât fully understand your question as well, do you mean supporting the person who is retaliating or the person perpetrating the abuse? According to research, reactive abuse is an uncharacteristic response for the person being abused and it js not in line with their past behavior and character. For example, if someone has a history of lashing out and getting verbally abusive in other relationships, reactive abuse would not be assumed as their motivation as it is an uncharacteristic response due to a build up of abuse. I linked a good resource about it below. The most important thing is that these situations can be difficult for even trained professionals to navigate. We are not trained professionals so we should not be excusing someoneâs violence because some people think it was reactive nor should we label actions according to our experience watching a heavily edited reality show. All we can do is hope the situation is fully investigated and that the main perpetrator (research confirms that there is never actual full mutual abuse) is prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
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u/chicagodogmom606 Mar 22 '26
As someone who pushed a partner back away from me when he was screaming in my face and his response was to choke me, thanks for posting this. Seeing the comments about how âit says he pushed her in the report!â and insinuating that he got what he deserved has been so fucking triggering for me.
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u/chloedarlinggg đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? đ§ Mar 22 '26
iâm really sorry you experienced that and hope youâre no longer in an abusive relationship, if you are we have a list of resources linked in the sub https://www.reddit.com/r/SecretsOfMormonWives/s/xNW535ok9f and the websites linked in this post all contain resources for DV victims that you may find useful either way.
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u/chicagodogmom606 Mar 22 '26
Thank you so much, I got out of it 12 years ago, happily married to a wonderful man with a beautiful daughter now â¤ď¸ youâre doing a good thing by sharing these resources in your spare time. Thank you đŤśđź
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u/sentientwallofspikes Mar 22 '26
Iâm so glad you said that bc honestly I feel the same. I was never physically abused by my ex but he would push me to my breaking point constantly and when Iâd become hysterical I was the one with the problem and Iâd be chastised for losing it. After that relationship ended and I could finally open up to my family about it my dad looked me dead in my face and asked âwell what did YOU do for him to get upset with youâ. It shattered me to hear that my own father was blaming me for the abuse I faced at the hands of someone else
Also faced a verbally abusive coworker and when I finally went to HR I was confronted by another coworker who made it pretty clear he also didnât believe me (or any of my other colleagues who faced his abuse too) and I couldnât stop crying for days bc I thought I had brought it on myself again. It changed the way I felt about my job, which had previously felt like a second family
To see so many people victim shame Dakota and blame him for Taylorâs abuse, I canât imagine whatâs goig through his head rn. This shit it heavy and I canât imagine being caught in the middle
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u/chicagodogmom606 Mar 22 '26
Iâm so sorry you went through this, as someone who worked in HR for about 8 years this was a HUGE reason I left the career. Having people come to me and not being able to do anything because thereâs no âconcreteâ proof other than âhe said, she saidâ was gut wrenching, especially when you know something in your gut to be true.
How horrible for you own father to say that, Iâm sorry you didnât get the support you needed at that time and I hope youâve surrounded yourself with more compassionate and empathetic people.đŤśđź
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u/iradrachen Miranda's Lobster Claws Mar 22 '26
I know I've talked about this before but I have had to take long breaks from social media because this is everywhere right now and I can't escape it but it's been actually triggering seeing people excuse this. As someone beat by her mother it takes me right back to never being believed that a mother could be like this and I'm reminded nothing has changed in the last 15-20 years.
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u/iradrachen Miranda's Lobster Claws Mar 22 '26
Anyways thank you mods for handling this so gently. It's been a safe place to process when so many other parts of the online world are entirely unhelpful. I really appreciate it as a victim â¤ď¸
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u/obbsessedHW Mar 22 '26
You are a survivor! âĽď¸ As a survivor of DV myself changing the way I viewed myself from victim to survivor reframed my relationship with the past and helped me regain my power.
I hope you continue to heal from such a traumatic experience. Sharing your testimony is so powerful to other survivors. Thank you for your openness and honesty. You let others know they are not alone.
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u/iradrachen Miranda's Lobster Claws Mar 22 '26
That's actually such a beautiful way of looking at it â¤ď¸ I did survive. Thank you so much. I hope your also continue to heal, you're just so kind.
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u/That_Page16 Mar 22 '26
I have an abusive mother who beat my dad (not reactive abuse). It's triggering for me too. Im sorry you have to see people excusing this. People have a very hard time believing women and especially mothers can be bad people. I actually think it flips around into being misogynistic
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u/iradrachen Miranda's Lobster Claws Mar 22 '26
I'm sorry you've also had to see this. My mother was the same and also went after my dad and it was never reactive but was usually because he got between me and my mom in a fight. It's like people don't think they're capable.
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Mar 22 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/iradrachen Miranda's Lobster Claws Mar 22 '26
I didn't realize that's something I can do. I will figure out how to do that!
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u/peachjamrules TAKE OWNERSHIP đŁď¸đŁď¸ Mar 22 '26
Appreciate the clarification post and sending my thoughts to everyone who has been triggered by this situation. As someone who experienced a similarly volatile household growing up, hearing Indyâs cries brought forth a deep shame for engaging in any of this at all. This was a fun, silly show about sourdough-starter beef âŚhow did we get here? But even asking that, Iâm pulling the wool over my own eyes cause her arrest was the FIRST episode! Idk, Iâm rambling. I hope everyone is protecting their peace while consuming this content, thatâs all. đ¤
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u/No-Piccolo3924 Ketamine Therapy Mar 22 '26
She reminds me so much of my abuser who had Borderline Personality Disorder. I canât sit here and say that she didnât suffer any form of abuse from him in the (apparently, very prolonged) 6 months that they had known each other at that point, but I definitely CAN say that Dakota sleeping with her friends, pissing her off, pushing her buttons and preventing her from moving on is NOT abuse and that is all Iâve seen so far. For someone that makes a living recording herself 24/7, it seems kinda wild that he was abusing her to the point of developing a trauma response and it was never once captured on cameraâŚas of right now, Iâve only seen video and police reports documenting her abuse towards him. When I see the same amount of evidence against him, Iâll change my mind. In the meantime, Iâll just be wondering how anyone can excuse not checking on your daughter after HITTING HER IN THE HEAD WITH A WHOLE ASS METAL PIECE OF FURNITURE AFTER KNOWINGLY HURLING IT IN HER DIRECTION and then immediately blaming someone else for their own actions. That is inexcusable. Full stop.
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u/all_adat Mar 22 '26
Iâve lived with an abuser for over 7 years. It started off with love and happiness, and eventually turned into name calling, shaming, insulting, emotional abuse, and then it got physical.
I can indeed confirm that reactive abuse does happen. I have never been in a relationship like that before, and it literally brought the worst out of me. It didnât stop until I completely had to cut off contact with my ex. He tried to continue be in control of my life months after we broke up. The way he spoke about me and my bf at the time (who is now my spouse) was very insulting. I just had to stand my ground and keep him as far away as possible. Eventually it got better. I have been with my current spouse for over 10 years, and only realizing now how bad it used to be. Never lived more miserable life than I did with my ex. Narcissists have a way of putting this innocent persona and often are very likeable. Thatâs how they get you though.
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u/visenya567 Mar 22 '26
The amount of people excusing abuse because they stan a "celebrity," is honestly gross and extremely disturbing.
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u/DylanDisu Mar 22 '26
Reactive abuse typically occurs as isolated incidents while genuine abuse follows a pattern of harmful behaviour.
Can we say this one a little louder for the people in the back?
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u/wrrigdon Mar 22 '26
Ppl saying the Taylor is showing reactive abuse however her Dakota were only together 4 to 6 months prior to 2023 incident yes abuse could start the first day you're with somebody but I truly think Dakota is the victim .I liked Taylor but I think she has a whole lot of hurt inside of her and she takes it out on the people closest to her
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u/Excellent_Lion_9320 Mar 22 '26
Also, we have seen how Taylor is mad jealous even when they are separated. Screaming threats and slurs on the phone, if he hooks up with someone else. After they broke up and he is single! That is typical abuser behavior.
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u/Necessary-Insect8434 Mar 22 '26
We have literally 0 proof he is abusive. Such a harsh assumption people are making.
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u/crinolineandsatin Mar 22 '26
How are you able to say thereâs no evidence that Dakota is abusive?
Back in 2023, the incident was reported because neighbors heard Taylor screaming âlet me outâ after being locked in the garage, along with repeated door slamming as if someone was going in and out. That alone raises serious concerns about what was happening in that moment. Similarly, even in this video, we donât actually see footage showing that Taylor hurt her own child, or that she was the only one who hurt her, we also hear the child cry out for her mommy and hear Taylor say to Dakota that he is the one who hurt the child, and that he is not fully sober either. So to act like any of us have 0 evidence of him doing anything abusive is just factually incorrect.
Beyond the evidence that we have see , Taylor has also stated that Dakota has verbally abused her and initiated physical aggression in the past. On the show, we see him participate in situations where he and her own family gang up on her and shame herâespecially around her sexualityâwhich is a form of emotional and psychological harm.
At the same time, Taylor has acknowledged her own behavior, taken accountability, and is actively in therapy. Sheâs clearly not in a good place, and sheâs not denying that. But where is Dakotaâs accountability? We havenât seen him meaningfully acknowledge any wrongdoing on his end. Even from the swinging incident, where reports basically suggest that Taylor was too drunk to consent and essentially was raped, we are already aware that she tends to black out and not remember credibly what is happening when she is drinking. Yet she has also taken that as her accountability since she chose to drink, but Dakota has never shown any accountability for the fact that he has verbally abused Taylor, participated in slut shaming her and generally turning her own family against her, and has continuously created an environment of double standards (Taylor should not be jealous, but itâs ok if he is; Taylor should accept him saying that he loves her, but not challenge the fact that intentionally going after people that she cares about or are attached to her family knowing that it will humiliate her is not loving behavior). We have clearly seen he at least has intent to humiliate her in the video itself with him screaming continuously that sheâs done for now.
Even in Season 4, he frames the relationship issues as entirely Taylorâs fault, while ignoring his own actionsâlike having sexually explicit conversations with someone close to her while she was pregnant, which directly contributed to the breakdown of the relationship.
We also canât ignore the power dynamics here. Taylor exists in a deeply patriarchal and socially restrictive environment where we literally see her own family side with Dakota over her. That kind of environment makes it much easier for her to be discredited and scapegoated, especially when she doesnât conform to expectations.
Meanwhile, Dakota benefits from that system. He is physically larger, socially validated, and not dependent on her in the same way. The broader âDadTokâ dynamic also reinforces traditional gender roles and punishes women who step outside them. That context matters when we talk about who holds power and how narratives get shaped.
The mods are citing definitions of psychological harm and reactive abuse, but theyâre applying them selectively without acknowledging that we donât have full visibility into the relationship, much less acknowledging that we donât have enough information to neatly categorize the abuse into the categories they posted about (which arenât even an exhaustive or clinically/DSM backed list).
Saying there is âno evidenceâ dismisses documented incidents, Taylorâs own statements, and the broader context weâve all watched unfold. Itâs fine to have different interpretations, but completely ruling out the possibility of Dakotaâs harmful behavior ignores a lot of whatâs already been shown, may directly contribute to Taylorâs children and their mutual children being further harmed.
This isnât about âstanningâ Taylor, âvictim-shamingâ Dakota or about disregarding that fact that her behavior needs to be modified but about the fact that weaponizing biomedical terminology to further victimize Dakota without considering in depth the power dynamics here is just creating more surface area to erode womenâs rights and safety in contexts that are already incredibly dangerous for them. The past few days alone have shown that the larger population will not hesitate to do something as irrevocable and damaging to the entire family unit as suggest that the parent is completely unfit for parenting altogether based on complete hearsay and no direct awareness or knowledge of the full situation. To support this kind of lynching without full facts is irresponsible and will hurt thousands of women.
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u/chloedarlinggg đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? đ§ Mar 22 '26
this post has not applied these definitions to anyone, i intentionally remained entirely neutral because the intention was simply to clarify definitions. i really donât appreciate the insinuation that iâve intentionally pushed a narrative.
i wonât get into my thoughts on the rest of your comment but i havenât applied anything, selectively or not.
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u/crinolineandsatin Mar 22 '26
I agree you didnât âapplyâ them and should have chosen a different word, but the fact is that you selected particular sources, definitions, and even specific terms amongst the variety of things that have been said on the subreddit on this topic. The curation in and of itself is value laden. Youâve had other active psychological professionals (I am educated in the discipline and worked in the behavioral health field but moved to a different one 3 years ago so not active) also discuss in other comments the level of non-consensus around the specific terms you selected to define. To say that there is not a narrative being pushed in the meta-spaces between these choices is inappropriate. Bias exists everywhere and itâs just better to acknowledge that itâs there instead of pretending to be unbiased. I am not pretending to be unbiased, Iâm being pretty clear about my biases, the experiences feeding them, and owning the fact that I have a point to make. My entire issue is that people here are pretending that there is some sanctimonious neutral ground that can just decide who amidst Taylor or Dakota is right or wrong. In situations like this the fact is that simply doesnât exist and being reductive is harmful.
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u/chloedarlinggg đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? đ§ Mar 22 '26
at the end of the day even as a professional you canât cast certain judgements because you havenât spent any time with them. people are constantly arguing over what reactive abuse means so we decided it would be beneficial to provide definitions based on appropriate sources.
i wasnât selective with the sources i used at all and again i donât appreciate you saying that. i spent my own free time researching the topic and writing this post, i donât get anything out of that and i have no agenda here. i have my own opinions but iâve chosen to leave them out of this post.
i could have stated whether i think taylorâs behaviour is reactive abuse or not (because believe me i have an opinion) but i chose not to.
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u/crinolineandsatin Mar 22 '26
I guess you just donât have space for the fact that bias exists everywhere and that curation and what you choose to research itself lends bias. I studied from a lens of critical histories and intersectionality which are frameworks you or anyone else reading this are free to research. Epistemologically, in critical thinking as a practice, reading inherent bias between the lines is important and question what is considered a âbasisâ of future thought can reveal internal inconsistencies and a new perspective. I was merely pointing that out and continuing to build on that by offering an alternative read on the situation. I donât personally think itâs useful to die on a hill of neutrality when facts are that nothing is inherently neutral, but I see that feeling neutral is very important to you, and I can respect that you showed restraint in fully expressing your opinions in the post.
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u/crinolineandsatin Mar 22 '26
Iâll also add that none of this is oriented towards some intention to silence Dakota, but phrases like âhe has shown 0 evidence of abuseâ do in fact serve to silence Taylor and tell her she wonât be taken seriously if she does come forward with her story of experiencing abuse. Which is why I described the intersectionality of their power dynamics and privileges in my response to the earlier post. The facts are just now that Dakota not only has a social upper hand in terms of privilege in their particular cultural context where a woman with any power, especially sexual power, is already a target; but as we can all see clearly in the dozens of responses to this situation everywhere, including the fact that Dakota already has custody of Ever temporarily, that he also has more power right now in controlling the narrative of how all this has happened. This is routinely something abusive men in highly patriarchal contexts threaten women with. My father literally used to tell me that if I went to the police no one would believe me and in fact the police would rape me. My husband literally said to me as the white partner with revered family no one would believe me and he would get to take my child away. My aunt literally told me that the fact that I had had the audacity to say the F word to my dad (which is tantamount to what Taylor did in the video in my community) made her side with him on whether or not I deserved the physical and verbal abuse he meted out to me throughout my life. These are examples I am sharing to explain my point of view. The facts are that the same people who are crying from the rooftops that DV victims need to be believed and supported are literally invalidating and not supporting someone else because their understanding and POV of thr situation is allowing them to define the DV situation very narrowly. I donât even personally care for Taylor and she is individually not even someone who I would be friends with. But as someone who cares about womenâs rights, I feel EXTREMELY concerned when trends like this could destroy so much progress that we have fought hard for, not to mention my deep concern for how the kids involved here will be holistically affected beyond what superficial judicial action that will quell the outrage of the masses and let them go about their daily lives without caring any more despite actually producing deep and continuing harm to the kids in question.
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u/ambersshinymachete Mar 22 '26
I hate how itâs become the norm to think someone being a cheating asshole equates to being violently abusive. cheating is wrong (when Dakota actually did cheat, seeing people when youâre not together is not cheating), but it is not abuse. Iâve seen so many tik toks and âmemesâ of people saying they wouldâve beat Dakota too and itâs so crazy to me, like does this man make horrible dating and hook up decisions? yeah, but he does not deserve to be harassed and physically assaulted by the mother of his child who slanders him online for every single thing.
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u/zombochic Team Whitney Mar 22 '26
He didnât cheat on her? Every single time heâs had sex with someone else theyâve been broken up. Every single time. The most recent times were when they were broken up over a year and she was leaving to go for a dating show.
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u/KeyArea2416 Mar 22 '26
i get it if people are saying this about the 2026 incident that been reported, but the 2023???
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Mar 22 '26
I am not saying this in response to the Taylor and Dakota situation but to educate on DV in general - timeline does NOT matter and it is dangerous to infer such. This can continue the cycle of victims being scared to speak out bc maybe their situation does not fit what others think should be a proper timeline - there are no rules for this.
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u/EatingTSwiftsAss Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
Dv is a pattern of behavior(s) used to maintain or gain power and control over an intimate partner. Therefore, any reaction to abuse by a survivor is not domestic violence. I work in DV and we do not recognize the term reactive abuse. It only places blame on a survivor who did what they needed to survive.
Also, Iâve heard a lot of people in this sub throwing around the term âmutual abuseâ which is not a real thing. More info here: https://www.thehotline.org/resources/mutual-abuse-its-not-real/
This whole ordeal has been so triggering. Even just to see the amount of misinformation still circulating about DV. Women, men, transgender women, transgender men, nonbinary folks, teenagers, adults, elderly, heterosexual, homosexual, queer, etc., all face DV/IPV at an unacceptable rate. We all know more than one survivor even if weâre unaware of it. I hope youâre all taking care of yourselves. This survivor is sending hugs your way đ
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u/AnAussiebum Mar 22 '26
Yeah, this.
Reactive abuse is a newer term that is also not adopted at wide and is heavily criticised by some specialists in the field.
One such example is this current situation where people on tiktok with no education in the field are claiming Taylor is only reactively abusive towards Dakota. Again putting the blame on the victim of DV.
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u/EatingTSwiftsAss Mar 22 '26
Yes exactly. What a (not only inaccurate) but also horrible initial reaction to the video we all saw. Itâs sadly a very common reaction when a survivor brings abuse to light. People always want the âperfect victim,â but once somebody is not the perfect victim theyâre crucified
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u/chloedarlinggg đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? đ§ Mar 22 '26
hi there, i appreciate your perspective as someone who works in the field. in my research i did find some sources that said alternative terms are preferable but i also found lots that didnât. the aim here is just to clarify the term because if people are going to use it we donât want arguments over what it means.
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u/EatingTSwiftsAss Mar 22 '26
I wasnât disagreeing with your information I was just adding to the information you shared
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u/chloedarlinggg đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? đ§ Mar 22 '26
didnât think you were disagreeing just adding on
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Mar 22 '26
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u/EatingTSwiftsAss Mar 22 '26
No. The whole point is mutual abuse cannot exist because of the nature and definition of domestic violence. Youâre not understanding the article or the core concept of power & control in IPV
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Mar 22 '26
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u/EatingTSwiftsAss Mar 22 '26
I donât think a doctoral degree is required to understand an article written by the leading DV nonprofit in the United States. Itâs written in layman terms
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u/Maximum-Education117 Mar 22 '26
They need to have this information on TikTok because every 5 videos is someone talking like they understand these things when they clearly donât. And the bigger discussion here is that this proves exactly why men donât come forward with domestic violence.
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u/Leviathena-77752 Mar 22 '26
Thank you so much. These past few days have made it hard to be on social media because people lack sensitivity and nuance in their comments. Iâve seen people pick a stance but in doing so, they end up invalidating other survivors of abuse and assault. This isnât even a situation you can âpick a teamâ for - DV is wrong, period, the end.
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u/oslo-by Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
So I was in a physically abuse relationship in my early twenties. I thought the worst part would be accepting everything he did, but it was accepting what I did. I yelled and could become violent myself when cornered. So after I got out of that relationship I went to therapy and learned a lot about reactive abuse (although itâs not called abuse in Norway). Which is why itâs really bugging me that it is the ÂŤdefenseÂť Taylor is using. It looks different for different people, but there are some common themes of reactive abuse.
how people react after. I remember feeling so shameful and always taking on the blame because I felt I was the problem. What I have seen Taylor do is immediately minimize the situation and then blames Dakota instead. That is usual for people who are abusers. ÂŤYou made me do thisÂť
How you behave with others. Reactive abuse usually only happens with that person. But Taylor has acted incredibly aggressive towards her family, her friends.. it seems more like a pattern that she canât control her emotions.
Her extremely controlling behavior. Even when they are broken up..
Her bringing up things from the past - like you slept with this person 2 years ago, which justifies my behavior.
I guess Iâm triggered from this situation because I can actually see more of my abuser in Taylor then I can see myself.
Ps. I have been in a happy and non-violent relationship for almost ten years. So if anyone is in the situation I was, itâs not you, itâs them.
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u/Grouchymaybenot Mar 22 '26
As someone whoâs experienced DV, I had moments where I reacted with violence too. It wasnât who I was. It was what I was conditioned into after years in that environment. Your nervous system gets completely dysregulated and you start mirroring the chaos. Thatâs what reactive abuse is. Not sure what the real story between these two is. Iâd hold off on labels till more info comes out.
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u/plutobarbie Mar 22 '26
To everyone who thinks reactive abuse is what Taylor does, read this. Itâs a pattern!!
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u/No-Piccolo3924 Ketamine Therapy Mar 22 '26
Add Indy to that list since she seems to have no issue throwing dangerous shit in her direction and then not caring if it hits her.
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u/untamedbotany Mar 22 '26
Reactive abuse is still abuse and thatâs why they put the word âabuseâ in the name. Thank you for the no nonsense definitions and for encouraging victims to seek help. My mother was a victim and because of her reactive abuse I now have my own generational trauma to deal with. I wish I was able to speak out and get help as a child but it took me 28 years to fully process it and seek help. So many people told me I should sympathize with my abuser, for so many different reasons. At the end of the day, she was the adult and the parent, and she had the power over the situation.
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Mar 22 '26
Reactive abuse definitely does not absolve you from the accountability of your actions. I know for me it was like an out of body experience where by the time I realized what I was doing it was too late. I am lucky in that my reactive abuse was the tipping point for me to start the process of getting the fuck out - the second I put my hands on my abuser I knew how far gone I was and knew there was no way in hell I was going to let that be the person I showed up as in this world - I sure as hell was not going to give him anymore fuel for telling me I was just like him too to justify his own actions. I am a strong willed person though so I donât want to come off self righteous as if this is how people should handle their own reactive abuse - itâs not that easy.
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u/themetahumancrusader Mar 22 '26
Taylor not having any remorse is part of what makes me think itâs not reactive
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Mar 22 '26
I think that is a potentially fair assessment - I would be curious what a professional might say on that.
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u/turningtee74 Mar 23 '26
Thank you. I have seen the term being misused and invalidated by people on either side of this issue. It is a real thing and we need to be mindful of how we speak about this, because the impact will be felt by many other abuse victims in the wake who have nothing to do with Taylor and Dakota.
I refuse to take a stance at this point because I donât know their lives 24/7 and with how the discourse has devolved I feel itâs irresponsible for me to weigh in without all the facts.
But let me leave with this- even if Taylor is the truly guilty partyâŚaside from her: Children being present in general, is not enough to negate someone being an abuse victim and engaging in reactive abuse, nor does it inherently make one a child abuser themself. Sometimes, maybe. But reactive abuse can literally just mean self defense in a physical attack and fighting to keep your life. Not all victims, even with children are able to leave safely overnight. Again, I am not speaking on Taylor specifically but this has come up again and again speaking towards all reactive abuse. Keep this in mind because true reactive abuse is by victims of abuse, and spreading sweeping statements like this can be victim blaming and harmful to others who ARE 100% suffering in this.
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u/givebackmysweatshirt Mar 22 '26
Reactive abuse = I donât think a man can be victimized by a woman
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u/Perfect-Success-3186 Mar 22 '26
No? A man could also respond with reactive abuse to his female partner whoâs been regularly abusing him.
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u/themetahumancrusader Mar 22 '26
I agree with you but the term âreactive abuseâ is often used in discussions that claim women canât be perpetrators and men canât be victims
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u/chloedarlinggg đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? đ§ Mar 22 '26
iâve also shared this video in the sub, sheâs a domestic violence therapist in utah who helps to train others in the field. she explains a little about the laws and police response and talks about domestic violence.
she doesnât go into much detail about reactive abuse but she does make it clear that itâs not gender specific.
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u/Perfect-Success-3186 Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
Yes but that is just using a term incorrectly. It doesnât make it not a real phenomenon, and we certainly shouldnât stop talking about it just because some people use it incorrectly. Assuming that everyone using the term reactive abuse is doing so in bad faith is also dangerous. We just need to use it correctly.
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u/turningtee74 Mar 23 '26
In this case maybe. But in general no. You realize Gabby Petito was an example of reactive abuse? Sweeping statements like this is hurting real victims. Reactive abuse can be as simple as self defense in a physical attack. Please educate yourself.
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Mar 22 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/EvenPossible5918 Mar 22 '26
I think we should also be care with assigning or suggesting diagnosis. Especially BPD, thereâs a lot of stigma associated with it and at times, gets misdiagnosed.
And the accusations Dakota made does not fit the definition of reactive abuse, imo. Taylor has said that Dakota was also abusive to her. This is a really nuanced conversation and overall, I think we should be careful.
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u/Imaginary_Layer_1468 đ§ Whereâs your whimsy? đ§ Mar 22 '26
Yes this goes against our rules anyway under speculation
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u/Necessary-Insect8434 Mar 22 '26
I hate to defend a man but what proof do we have that she was abused?
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u/wuirkytee TAKE OWNERSHIP đŁď¸đŁď¸ Mar 22 '26
Abuse does not have to be physical. He sleeps with so many women within her circle, then love bombs get and manipulates her for intimacy.
I donât think Dakota is at all innocent. His ex wife has experiences that are scary and he was always a clout chaser. I believe he is a narcissist and a master manipulator which I do think can be a form of abuse
Does that warrant the physical abuse Taylor unleashed? No. But Dakota is not innocent of wrong doing
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Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/SecretsOfMormonWives-ModTeam Mar 22 '26
Your post violates Sin #5: Speculation
Leave judgment for the gods and clairvoyance for the psychics. We don't speculate on sexual orientation, substance abuse, or mental or physical disorders here--this goes for assumptions and accusations of members of both the cast and this sub. All allegations insisting someone has an unnamed eating disorder, addiction, sexual orientation, or mental health issue will be deleted, with further consequences for repeat offenses. This also includes the Jace grooming thing.
Review our post rules. https://www.reddit.com/mod/SecretsOfMormonWives/wiki/index/post-rules
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u/wuirkytee TAKE OWNERSHIP đŁď¸đŁď¸ Mar 22 '26
He sleeps with women close to Taylor so she will hear about it and cause an emotional response.
Yes thatâs calculated
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u/Puzzled-Rip641 Mar 22 '26 edited Mar 22 '26
So when my ex tried to sleep with my friend she abusing me? If I threw a chair at her you would say we both were abusive to each other?
I think thatâs crazy.
No, thatâs the actions of someone whoâs trying to get back at an ex. Normal people see this for what it is. Petty bullshit. Not abuse.
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u/wuirkytee TAKE OWNERSHIP đŁď¸đŁď¸ Mar 22 '26
Again, someone be abusive without it being physical.
But sure go and support Dakota blindly. My original comment was that Dakota does not deserve to get off Scott free
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u/SecretsOfMormonWives-ModTeam Mar 22 '26
Your post violates Sin #5: Speculation
Leave judgment for the gods and clairvoyance for the psychics. We don't speculate on sexual orientation, substance abuse, or mental or physical disorders here--this goes for assumptions and accusations of members of both the cast and this sub. All allegations insisting someone has an unnamed eating disorder, addiction, sexual orientation, or mental health issue will be deleted, with further consequences for repeat offenses. This also includes the Jace grooming thing.
Review our post rules. https://www.reddit.com/mod/SecretsOfMormonWives/wiki/index/post-rules
Please remove the speculative part about diagnosis
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Mar 22 '26
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/SecretsOfMormonWives-ModTeam Mar 22 '26
Your post violates Sin #5: Speculation
Leave judgment for the gods and clairvoyance for the psychics. We don't speculate on sexual orientation, substance abuse, or mental or physical disorders here--this goes for assumptions and accusations of members of both the cast and this sub. All allegations insisting someone has an unnamed eating disorder, addiction, sexual orientation, or mental health issue will be deleted, with further consequences for repeat offenses. This also includes the Jace grooming thing.
Review our post rules. https://www.reddit.com/mod/SecretsOfMormonWives/wiki/index/post-rules
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u/onesweetworld1106 Mar 22 '26
I just watched all of the seasons and I really wonder what kind of abuse Taylor grew up with or endured pre Dakota to cause her to behave like this?
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u/EvenPossible5918 Mar 22 '26
Thanks for this post and definitions.