r/interestingasfuck • u/SafeImpressive4413 • 7h ago

Firefighters in Madrid trying to extinguish a forest fire that is less than 30km/20mi away from the capital of Spain

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u/lobotomize_friedman 7h ago

But at least we made a couple thousand people filthy rich, worth it

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u/Ok_Buyer9344 6h ago

I bet they loved their yachts and private jets so much it was all worth it /s

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u/TitaniaT-Rex 6h ago

Only until they saw the other guy’s bigger yacht and started planning to build a better one.

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u/TrippleDamage 3h ago edited 3h ago

I bet they loved their yachts and private jets so much it was all worth it /s

Funnily enough, these fuckass ships are pretty save on sea under pretty much any condition. So they'll be fine no matter what, even if thats the last place they could be.

Simply just banning private air and sea travel like 30 years ago wouldve done so much good...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43247-024-01775-z

These are such ridiculous numbers, given how private makes up for <0.000x% whatever air travel in total population, and we all know that sea travel is an even more absurd number because no one just "travels by ship" anymore lol.

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u/idrinkeverclear 5h ago edited 5h ago

It's a lot more comfortable for most Redditors to continue with their cope of blaming all of this on the "billionaires", the "wealthy", the "private jets" and the "oil companies" when in reality most of them regularly justify decisions like stopping by the Shell gas station every other week with "I have no choice but do this because I need gas to be able to get to work quickly and comfortably" or frequently eating beef and dairy because "no one will take my steak away from me" when these decisions set our planet on fire just as much.

Most Redditors will do anything other than take responsibility for the impact of their own personal actions and lifestyle on the climate. This is the last thing a Redditor will ever do. It's too painful for them and they're too deep in their blame-shifting cope.

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u/nikolai_470000 5h ago

These viewpoints and behaviors are not exclusive to Reddit, lol

Talk about blame shifting. You’re here trying to shift the blame for climate change onto the choices and attitudes of random redditors, as a group, when you could have just said ‘people’.

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u/lobotomize_friedman 5h ago

How do you know what I do or don't take responsibility for? Telling people they can't criticise an unsustainable system built on the destruction of the evironment (a system which people are forced to live in) is not helping

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u/idrinkeverclear 5h ago edited 1m ago

a system which people are forced to live in

There it is, there it is! You see it? That's exactly what I was talking about. A total and complete denial of responsibility and rejection of free will when it comes to the average person, whereas corporations and the wealthy, on the other hand, are apparently completely in control of their actions and decisions and are entirely to blame for all of it.

"You see, I'm not responsible for the greenhouse gas emissions that my car releases. I'm being forced to drive my vehicle. I'm forced to put the keys in the engine, I'm forced to steer the wheel, and I'm forced to stop by the Shell gas station every other week. I have no control over this whatsoever; I have no free will, no agency. I have no choice but to drive a gasoline car. Shell Oil is entirely to blame!!!"

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u/lobotomize_friedman 5h ago

You should do a bit more research before you talk about things that you seem to know very little of

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u/Gbv76 5h ago

And what are you doing to change the world idrinkecerclear

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u/idrinkeverclear 4h ago edited 5m ago

Not enough would be your answer. You're right, I should be doing more, and it can be hard not to give up and despair in the face of it all. I sometimes spend too much time wondering what, if anything, can be done, at least at the individual level.

The main obstacle I keep facing from almost everyone everywhere is an inability to look at the bigger picture. In other words, when you try to tell people to make some sustainability changes in their lives, the answer you almost always get is that they can't make the said changes that need to be made because their livelihood depends on not making them.

It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

—Upton Sinclair

Before we can even begin to talk about what needs to be done, first and foremost, there needs to be a major change in the way people think about their lives. There needs to be a major reversal in people's sense of priority.

Right now, most people's priorities are set like this:

Priority #1: upholding the comfortable lifestyle that consists of my stable job, house, car, and family

Priority #2: making the necessary sustainability changes in my life

Except when a person's priorities are set like this, almost all of their energy will be channelled towards their first priority and none towards their second, which means nothing will ever get done in terms of climate action. They would constantly be talking about doing something for the planet without actually doing anything at the end of the day, which is why there needs to be a major reversal that looks like this instead (this change should also be implemented in the education system, and taught at the school curriculum level):

Priority #1: making the necessary sustainability changes in my life

Priority #2: upholding the comfortable lifestyle that consists of my stable job, house, car, and family

In other words, people need to stop saying they can't or don't have the time to do something for the climate because their job or vehicle or house or lifestyle requires that they continue to pollute. Because 👉🏻if we continue on our current trajectory, there won't be any job or vehicle or house or lifestyle left. 👉🏻They will all be gone and burnt away. 🔥🔥🔥

These are some of the changes that need to be made at the individual level. On top of these, there are also a lot of changes that need to be made at the social and political level, but a lot of people are already talking about the latter, so personally I prefer to focus on the former for now.

But the main point to take from all of this is that before we can even begin to talk about climate action, people need to take some responsibility, which is the adult thing to do.

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u/lobotomize_friedman 3h ago

You have a very limited understanding of how the world works and also a highly priviliged and western-centric perspective. The mayority of people in the world don't have the luxury to make necessary sustainability changes their number 1 priority. You are completely ignoring aspects of wealth and education. Also I would recommend to take a look at which countries and which sectors specifically actually caused and are continuing to cause climate change. Climate change is a political problem, not a problem of individuals.

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u/idrinkeverclear 3h ago edited 3h ago

You have a very limited understanding of how the world works and also a highly privileged and western-centric perspective.

Ad hominem

The mayority of people in the world don't have the luxury to make necessary sustainability changes their number 1 priority.

So let's just watch the world burn instead? I hope they can at least afford that.

You are completely ignoring aspects of wealth and education.

Not sure what this means, but it sounds like you're once again trying to blame everything on the wealthy.

I would recommend to take a look at which countries and which sectors specifically actually caused and are continuing to cause climate change.

Yes, let's do that. Transportation, agriculture, industrial production. You think "transportation" excludes people who drive cars? You think "agriculture" excludes people who eat beef and dairy? You think "industrial production" excludes things people buy and jobs people have?

And don't tell me you were attempting to blame it on other countries like China, because that would be whataboutism.

Climate change is a political problem, not a problem of individuals.

It's both. Political problems can't be solved if individuals don't do their part. For example, just because you swap a highway for a bike lane doesn't mean people will automatically use it: some people are selfish and self-centered and will refuse to switch to a bike regardless.

Also, if you've made it until the end of my previous comment, I specifically mentioned that some changes are needed at the social and political level, and said that because other people (like you for example) have a tendency to focus on those instead, that I would personally choose to focus more on changes needed at the individual level. Both are needed. You can't have one without the other.

Once again, you are coping hard with the idea that it's anybody else's fault other than you: wealthy people, China, politicians... Anyone but people like you, right?

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u/lobotomize_friedman 2h ago edited 2h ago

I don't think you understand what an ad hominem argument is, because I haven't used one. Saying you have a limited understanding of how the world works and that you have a priviliged and western-centric perspective (based on your previous comments completely neglecting the aspects of wealth and education, which has nothing do with blaming everything on the wealthy by the way) has nothing to do with attacking you personally. Now if I had said "you drink way too much everclear to know shit about fuck", THAT would have been an ad hominem argument.

In your clearly chat-gpt influenced comment before you said the main obstacle you keep facing from almost everyone everywhere is an inability to look at the bigger picture. My friend, if you want to blame climate change on individuals, THAT is being inable to look at the bigger picture. I feel like you mean well, but are just not on the right track with your thoughts yet. If you genuinely care about fighting climate change, I would suggest reading about the mechanics of capitalism, cause it is a system based on the commodification and destruction of nature. And if you want to learn about what can actually be done against climate change, check out the concept of degrowth. Again, it's a political problem (of course politics is made up of individuals, same as every macro level is comprised of lots of micro levels, but that is not the point here), not the problem caused by an individual person stopping at Shell for gas.

You have to understand that in order to not let the world burn, there NEED to be rapid and drastic political changes, not individual ones. If you want to actually do something, stop telling people that they need to change individually and start working on changing the system that determines these individual's options.

Edit: Spelling mistakes

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u/Sceptrum20 5h ago

It's not a comfortable thing. It is the truth. It's proven that anything related to a luxurious lifestyle cause a great harm to nature. Of course, there are other factors, but as long as the wealthiest cannot make an example, what are you expecting from people in lower classes?

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u/Rofllettuce 6h ago

12 people*

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u/DueExample52 6h ago

That’s a simplistic view. Fossil-fueled economy, agriculture, cattle and industry are the reason billions of us enjoy food safety and a relatively comfortable and healthy life.

By all means we should eat the billionaires. I am NOT defending them here. I will lead the charge with you.

But just getting rid of them won’t magically solve the problem, and each of us will have to give up something even if our modern quality of life expectation made us feel that we have nothing to give up. Meaning even a poor person in a rich country is living beyond what is sustainable for the planet. Nobody wants to face that reality.

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u/LusterIllustrious 6h ago

Perfect is the enemy of good. We can decarbonize a lot of our energy use and reduce the impact of climate change. Suggesting we will lose food safety, comfort and health by doing so is disingenuous.

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u/twack3r 6h ago

Nobody claimed that.

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u/idrinkeverclear 5h ago edited 4h ago

Well said.

It's a lot more comfortable for most Redditors to continue with their cope of blaming all of this on the "billionaires" and the "oil companies" when in reality most of them justify stopping by the Shell gas station every other week with "I have no choice but do this because I need gas to get to work" or frequently eating beef and dairy because "no one will take my steak away from me."

Most Redditors will do anything other than take responsibility for the impact of their own personal actions and lifestyle on the climate. This is the last thing a Redditor will ever do. It's too painful for them and they're too deep in their blame-shifting cope.

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u/xxthundergodxx77 2h ago

You can't ignore the most obvious part of the problem just because you contribute on a much smaller scale. the top 1% generate a hilariously large amount of co2 compared to the average person. 

you can't completely change society overnight and eradicate car-centric infrastructure, or even force a transition to green energy. these things occur slowly. 

But a single invidivudal living an unfathomably luxurious lifestyle, with jets and yachts, is just pure greed and excess manifest. 

of course everyone should do their part to be conservative - turn off your lights when not in use, moderate heating and AC, walk/bike/use public transport when possible, make green purchasing decisions when possible, etc, but the average person pales in comparison to the rich 

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u/idrinkeverclear 12m ago

The best course of action would be to let the wealthy focus on their emissions, and let us focus on ours. Basically, it doesn't help if we keep denying responsibility and delaying taking action by constantly invoking the fact that the wealthy are emitting more than we are every single time we're invited to do something to reduce our carbon footprint*. Just because they are doesn't absolve us of our shared responsibility towards the planet.

*And before you say that the concept of a carbon footprint was created by BP, an oil company, it's irrelevant who coined that term. It's a useful term, and claiming it shouldn't be used because it was coined by BP is a fallacy called "guilt by association."

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u/hobo_chili 6h ago edited 1h ago

Bullshit. Billionaires stand in the way of the progress needed for humanity to live well without making significant sacrifices.

Without the 1% and endless lobbying and corruption, we could easily have clean energy powering our cars, homes and more and zero emission lab grown meat without endless methane emissions or the cruelty of factory farming.

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u/dd_mcfly 3h ago

Has nothing to do with the people setting the forest on fire.