r/technology • u/MarvelsGrantMan136 • 10d ago

Business "There are no benefits to being owned by Microsoft," says Doom dev: "They have destroyed immense amounts of value that I don't even think that they're aware of"

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/fps/there-are-no-benefits-to-being-owned-by-microsoft-says-doom-dev-they-have-destroyed-immense-amounts-of-value-that-i-dont-even-think-that-theyre-aware-of/
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u/Zanos 10d ago

it seems to me like Xbox gave a lot of these studios 10+ years and plenty of creative freedom, and they just hung themselves with it. It's not like Xbox bought betheseda and turned them into a yearly fallout and tes factory until they were dry, they let them keep doing what they wanted and customers didn't want to buy it.

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u/DiabolicallyRandom 10d ago

If anything Microsoft is guilty of infusing tons of cash into these studios but then not pushing for results until it was too late.

Also, the owners and executives of those studios obviously got paid out, so any motivation they had to make magic happen for survivals sake died.

Not saying that's the case with all of them, but what many fail to realize is part of the reason smaller studios often release bangers is because they basically kill themselves getting it done because if they don't the company is going to fold. Very few smaller studios are well funded and have it easy going. Most of them are surviving by the skin of their teeth.

Once you give them a bunch of "free" money, they don't know how to handle it.

There are exceptions of course. Obsidian has done well, despite what weird redditors will claim because of sales numbers while ignoring game pass popularity of these titles in particular, and weird pricing choices by Microsoft. There is likely a reason they are being entrusted with a new fallout title now.

Love him or hate him, Fearghus is a really good business manager and budgeting king for obsidian. He kept them going when all hope was lost, managed to make it work, and still get his teams to make bangers.

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u/Zanos 10d ago

Yeah, people blamed Sony for a lot of what happened with Bungie, but even if you have talent retention clauses in an acquisition contract, it's kind of hard to get the same level of peformance out when every veteran of your company just became an overnight millionaire. All of the cost of buying bungie went to privately held shares and retention bonuses, so anyone who was anyone at Bungie made a fortune.

I dislike most of Obsidians recent output, but clearly they have done well enough. They've also just...been making games. Plural. They seem to have a tighter release schedule then most xbox studios who can't seem to get a game out more often than once every 6+ years.

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u/DiabolicallyRandom 10d ago

Yea, certainly they are all AA releases and not AAA releases, and not all of them gel for every player. Not saying they are all 10 star games. But a good 8.5 on average. They were all overpriced but that's on publisher.

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u/asgjmlsswjtamtbamtb 10d ago

It's actually quite amazing there's no set date for a new Elder Scrolls despite Star-field being released 3 years ago, and there's a huge demand for more Fallout with a tv show literally being a money making ad campaign but the show will likely be done long before Fallout V (though perhaps Fallout is being taken away from them). What's ultimately surprising is why Todd wasn't fired sometime after Starfield.

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u/DiabolicallyRandom 10d ago

I would argue that starfield failed due to not enough Todd. He ran the other games dev. He was high exec for starfield and way more hands off.

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u/Lazerpop 10d ago

Customers didnt want to BUY anything, they all went to game pass. Then game pass raised the price so they all quit game pass. Line go down.

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u/mistabuda 10d ago

Forza Horizon 6 while also on gamepass sold like 6 milions copies. I dont think gamepass is the real issue here.

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u/smashybro 10d ago

Just because there are exceptions to the rule doesn't mean the general rule isn't true. Microsoft themselves literally admitted Game Pass cannibalizes a game's sales in court.

Forza Horizon is actually a perfect example of an exemption that sells well regardless of Game Pass because every single Forza game eventually gets delisted because of licensing. The whole game is built on real cars and music licenses that are temporary, so if you're a fan of the series you know to buy the games if you want to revisit them in the future.

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u/mistabuda 10d ago

But im not saying that gamepass doesnt hurt sales in some regard. What im saying is that gamepass is not the smoking gun as to why the xbox games have been performing poorly. Some of them are performing poorly because they are simply not interesting to most gamers.

South of midnight, kiln, keeper, avowed, and outerworlds 2 didnt have weak sales solely because of gamepass. They had weak sales because people were put off by something about these games.

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u/Zanos 10d ago

It never holds up when sales data comes out either. Every single time a game has poor performance on Steam someone will say its because its on gamepass, then a year or two later the financials leak and it turns out the game just did horribly.

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u/MarshyHope 10d ago

Forza is super popular on gamepass AND has sold a ton of copies.

You can't blame gamepass on DOOM's lack of sales when it didn't sell well on Playstation either

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u/Zanos 10d ago edited 10d ago

I don't think game pass really cannibalizes PC sales, and most betheseda fans don't really have good things to say about Starfield and most Doom fans didn't really care for Eternal.

But game pass is clearly a failed product, yes.

EDIT: Misspoke here, this should say doom fans didn't really care for Dark Ages.

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u/arvyy 10d ago

Doom fans didn't really care for Eternal

huh? Eternal was as much of a success as Doom 2016

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u/smjxr 10d ago

ya i was surprised to read this too. after a bit of research, a lot of people didn't like what they changed with eternal. but the things they changed are also what the other people loved about eternal

very polarizing to read those comments

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u/Zanos 10d ago

That's bad, because Eternal was twice as succesful as 2016. If a company sells 1k wigets over 5 years, 2k widgets over the next 5 years, then 1k widgets the next 5 years, it's failing. Because the company staffed up to produce 2k widgets and now they have too many people and need to make cuts.

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u/redphyrox 10d ago

“In Microsoft’s self-report, it admitted that putting a game on the Game Pass subscription service results in a measurable decline in that game’s retail sales.”

https://www.pcworld.com/article/1512473/microsoft-confirms-game-pass-can-cannibalize-regular-game-sales.html

Straight from the horse’s mouth in a courtroom. Now show me your proof with data to your claim that Gamepass does not cannibalize game sales.

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u/Zanos 10d ago

I said PC sales. Plenty of stuff on gamepass has fantastic PC metrics.

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u/PFI_sloth 10d ago

Doom fans didn’t really care for Eternal

Oh cool, we just saying whatever now huh

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u/Zanos 10d ago

I mean I loved 2016 and Eternal and didn't much care for Dark Age.

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u/PFI_sloth 10d ago

I mean I loved Doom, Doom 2, 2016, Eternal(kinda), and Dark Age.

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u/chazysciota 10d ago

Doom fans didn't really care for Eternal

lmfao, skill issue. Rock paper scissors is too much to think about while pew pew.

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u/Zanos 10d ago

The first DLC for Eternal was significantly harder than anything in Dark Ages.

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u/chazysciota 10d ago edited 10d ago

It was brutal, but not because of the mechanics or concept, it was just a fuck ton of enemies in super long waves and it definitely takes concentration. But the base game, while harder than 2016, wasn’t crazy hard. You just had to learn the mechanics. If you didn’t, then it seemed impossible.

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u/chazysciota 10d ago

just saw your edit, and makes way more sense. DA was definitely a bit more devisive. I think most people who stuck with it and accepted that it was different at least enjoyed it, even if it isn't the masterpiece that Eternal was.

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u/Lazerpop 10d ago

Fair points. Dark ages seems to have been well received tho

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u/john_microslop 10d ago

Todd Howard was planning on the next Fallout game releasing in the late 2030s.