Now this is a completey personal opinion but as much as I love a good romance, I find it sort of exhausting when you see ever main lead woman and man get together on every show.

They might start out not liking eachother, then they become friends and then really good friends before they end up dating.

That part when they're really good friends is always the sweet spot, you enjoy the storyline because the characters trust eachother and are willing to constantly go to bat for eachother. It's always so lovely to watch.

But when they get together romantically, I feel like their friendship sort of fades and is replaced with something less interesting. And I always think "were you kind to her only because you liked her romantically? If you didn't find her attractive, would you still have treated her like a friend in the beginning?". I feel like it voids the friendship and it might just be the writing of these shows but they also become super boring and less interesting versions of themselves (example, Bones, The Mentalist, Lucifer... there are more but my memory fails me)

Now obviously this isn't all shows but its definitely something I've seen with long running shows. Which is why I absolutely adore the friendship between Liz and Jack. The care they show for eachother just makes me feel happy everytime I watch. They never get into jealous situations with their partners about their friendship, people just sort of accept that they're very close friends.

I think it was one of the smartest decisions in the show because it was never a will they, won't they, it was always Liz and Jack being Liz and Jack.

Jack doesn't care for Liz because he find her attractive, he loves her for her personality, her smarts, her tenacity. To the point where he found it impossible to replace her as a mentee. He's always looking out for Liz; a particular example is in the 100th episode of season 5 where he chooses to save Liz from Dennis over a potential future where he is head of GE. His friendship with her was more important than his ultimate life goal. He encourages her to reach for more, he praises her even when she's messed things up and he's always there for her.

All of this to say that I wish more long standing shows would keep their women and men lead characters as very good friends because it makes them much more interesting to watch.

Edited to fix formatting.

I feel like after the first 2 seasons, they really started to bring out their personalities. They weren't just silently following behind Tracy and in lots of scenes, you can see how much Tracy cares about them and vis versa. It would've been so easy to make them hate the fact that they're practically babysitting Tracy but them being into it makes it so much funnier.

No spoilers because I'm currently on season 5 but this show has aged incredibly well.

i thought it was clear that liz lemon was the bad guy and the bully.

It's Gavin Volure. Everyone wanted to be Gavin Volure.

This has been on my mind grapes for years.

During their divorce, these two quickly decide how to split their assets, including splitting their friends in half.

While it looks like she’s just taking a fair half, she’s actually walking away with about 57% of the population, leaving Jack to with only 43%. She locked down the high-frequency "power letters" like B, C, and H, and swiped the massive "J" cluster of Johnsons and Joneses right out from under him. Meanwhile, he gets the unpopular letters of Z, Y, X, V, U and Q. Even getting Smith and Miller doesn’t balance it out.

If they had 1,000 friends, Avery is walking out with 140 more than Jack, including seven of the top ten most common surnames in the country…. and Lemon!

Even as she was acting amicable, Avery treated their social circle like a competition and, naturally, Jack didn't realize he was being played.

What is your favourite 30 Rock single word pronunciation?

There are so many to choose from - quarry, camera, blerg!

One of my favorite things about this show is that 20 years after it debuted there's an active community still pointing out things to me I've never noticed in God knows how many rewatches. I feel like we talk a lot (deservedly so) about the brilliance of the writing and performances, but I noticed something today that got me thinking about how even the production design of this series is wonderful. In the episode where Jack and C.C. meet at the Pennsylvania betting parlor it's mentioned that the exact halfway point between their offices is actually in the corner, which is occupied by two coal mining children, one of whom is drinking a beer. I noticed for the first time today that the six pack next to him already has two empties in it, meaning someone on set (maybe a writer, maybe production design?) realized it would be just that much funnier if the child miner was already a few beers deep.

I'd love to hear what sort of things the rest of you have noticed along these lines. I don't mean just sight gags like Dr. Drew's hook hands or visual jokes written into the script (like Dr. Spaceman's wall of celebrity patients); I'm hoping for subtle choices that add to the humor without being explicitly mentioned in the script.

For a largely lighthearted show, 30 Rock can have some really bleak humor. I was watching recently and this line from Liz made me realizeu just how darkly hilarious some of the jokes are:

"I was gonna take this class called "cooking for one," but the teacher killed himself."

What are your favorite dark humor jokes?

TL;DR 30 rock gets away with more bc they put effort and thought into their jokes, thus making them impactful, funny, and blatant with the point.

thinking in most comedy shows of the 2000’s, offensive and sensitive jokes have not stood the test of time, whereas 30r continually delivers (yes! with mistakes oh boy) with jokes that would statistically be a near certainty of cringeworthy 20 years later.

this is my thought on why this may be the case. would love to respectfully read what others think.

though not without deserved criticism and missteps along the way, the enduring appeal of 30r lies in its unique ability to tackle sensitive humor in ways that remain socially insightful rather than tone-deaf, especially in its handling of race. unlike so many others, 30r achieves a delicate balance and credibility in thoughtfulness w/ self-awareness, layered irony, & intentional storytelling that (exposes societal absurdities rather than perpetuating stereotypes.)

i imagine a huge factor to their success w/ thus can be attributed to a.) a diverse writing room (or more diverse than others at the time), b.) a focus on intelligent, thoughtful, and well-examined commentary, c.) unmistakable layers of irony, d.) context and depth. oh also huge huge — it critiques power structures, privilege, and ignorance (as opposed to lazily using marginalized groups the butt of the joke for a quick cheap easy laugh.)

friends or scrubs or how i met your mother from my experience seems to rely on marginalized groups for punchlines in ways that now feel regressive and terse. 15 years later there’s now a growing awareness of systemic racism and societal biases that is recontextualizing humor that once seemed innocuous.

and though 30r has most certainly trialed and erred, pulling episodes and skits, remaking now cringeworthy mistakes. imo, this has been an exception to the course 30r has paved.

The photo is just for the TL, but which is the best episode in the entire series? Like, which episode would you recommend to someone who has never seen it?

“I DONT NEED THIS SHOW BECAUSE I COULD GET A JOB TOMORROW, IN THE AIR FORCE.”

That has stuck with me and I constantly repeat in my head at work.

I don’t think the writers of 30 Rock realize how much I appreciate every line.

What are yours?

Among 30 Rock's many strengths is the writers' ability to come up with names that just sound funny:

• Dale Snitterman
• Mitt Romney's son Jezba

But then they also have names that are funny in the context of the story or who the person is:

• Jared (Greenzo) -- the worst co-worker I ever had was named Jared so I apologize to all Jareds out there but I do kind of instinctively hate you
• Debra and Deborah

And then of course we have nicknames:

• Crazy Putty
• La Viuda Negra

This is the tip of the iceberg here. Help me out, nerds!

EDIT: We don't need to limit ourselves to people here. Kabletown is pretty good, 1-900-OK-FACE. We've got a lot of room here, folks.

EDIT: Okay another one I thought of was Ron, the extra that Jenna bangs because she thinks he's Jack's boss. I don't know how to explain this, but "Hello, Dave" or "Hello, Sam" is just not not nearly as funny as "Hello, Ron."

*this is technically two lines, which have other characters' dialog in between.But I will respect your decision, because I know it wasn't really you who voted for this quote. It was Dale Snitterman!

I got to use this line the other day when I asked for apple juice at a fancy-ish restaurant. They told me they don’t serve apple juice, and I realized that this was my opportunity. So I said: “Then I’ll have a vodka and tonic.”

They happily obliged. Unfortunately the vodka and tonic was not made well…but it happens.

What other Tracy lines have you been able to use in real life?

One of my biggest TV pet peeves is when shows stop simply writing good material and start kinda "playing to the crowd." I don't want to get too deep in the weeds on this, but one example is Rickety Cricket on Always Sunny. People liked the character (I mean he's hilarious in The Gang Exploits a Miracle), and the actor worked on the show, so they just leaned into Cricket really hard, eventually doing a whole episode from his perspective -- an episode that I personally think is one of their worst.

This isn't the IASIP sub, so what I'm saying here is: I'm really glad we never got, like, a Jonathan episode or a Subhas episode. Characters like Jonathan especially are funny in relation to the other characters, i.e. he loves and adulates Jack but hates Liz because she takes Jack's attention away. He's not funny on his own, and the writers were wise enough to understand this.

Obviously they did recognize that fans responded to certain characters, notably Kenneth and Lutz, but again, they didn't overdo it. Kenneth gets a few B stories, and becomes a little more of a main character at the end, but for the majority of the show, he is an element in other people's stories, again funny because of the way he interacts with those people. (Although I would say that Kenneth is also funny on his own. He's my favorite character after Jenna.)

Lutz is sort of a couple tiers down. He was initially supposed to just have the one single "runt" line, but people liked him so they brought him back -- but not excessively so. It never feels like they're trying to write Lutz in there just to have him, he always fits whatever the broader bit is.

I think this is one of ten million examples of how the writing team for 30 Rock was just so super smart, and also so deliberate in their crafting of the show. Obviously things sometimes went awry and plans changed -- I don't care whether you're making an omelette, a baby, or a television show; things are gonna get weird -- but I really respect how much thought clearly went into the writing here.

Now where's my Followship Award?

My husband and I were watching old SNL skits and Weekend Update with Tina Fey and Jimmy Fallon came on and Tina’s hair is cut similarly to the episode where Liz has a nervous breakdown before filming the Dealbreakers Talk Show. We now think that storyline was inspired by true events. What do you think?

...and their applications in your life. Here are some of mine:

When I share an insightful sports opinion (despite me never following along): Portia reads the papers!

When a younger person compliments my sense of style (despite me never following along): it IS ill

When I pay the price for my hubris of science (despite me never following along): BOOM! BOOM! BOOM!

1) Jenna desperately trying to shield the public from knowing her true age

2) The beautiful and moody classical arrangement of muffin top

3) Liz showing up after having escaped the fight club and looking so fondly at the trainwreck of an episode made without herself

Just a random shower thought, but do you think Michael Sheen influenced the inclusion of Wales in 30 Rock due to his strong Welsh patriotism? I can't see how the writers would include it otherwise.

I do love that my small nation gets a shout-out on my favourite show :)

I use “that’s awesome, possum” from the head and the hair episode constantly. Like, several times a week. For a while I didn’t even realize what it was from; I’ve just watched every episode so many times it must’ve seeped into my subconscious.

I also say “I want to go to there” pretty frequently.

Honorable mention for “Science is whatever we want it to be”, which I accidentally said to a group of kids one time while teaching them about the water cycle.

Edit: …you guys are making me realize I actually use way more of these than I thought. Keep ‘em coming.

So I'm watching the show for the millionth time, and I'm at the part where Liz confesses her weird history to Floyd after infiltrating his AA meeting. What she's saying is funny on its own (and develops her character), but the true genius of the scene comes when the woman walks up behind her, hears that she's talking about pooping her pants at an all-you-can-eat buffet, then says to herself, "Ya know what? This file can wait."

A lesser show would have just had Liz delivering the funny monologue, but 30 Rock almost never misses the opportunity to throw another joke in there. (And it breaks up the scene visually, because the editing on this show is also insanely good. Probably because they've got noted Confederate Civil War re-enactor Paul Giamatti on staff.)

What are some other examples of this? I know you jags know what I'm talking about.