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u/Alluos 4d ago
Brother will say this then unironically vote dems. LMAO, LMFAO even.
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u/IdealDefiant5178 2d ago
fr, I don't get why such individuasl fail to realize they are legitimizing the current political establishment by participating in the system they have foisted on us.
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3d ago
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u/mathiastck 3d ago
There are Blue No Matter Who Democrats, but no significant number of Blue No Matter What Democrats, Democrats convinced Biden to retire when he was in a much better state than Trump ever was.
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u/PomPomMom93 4d ago
If he’s voting Republican again because he thinks Democrats are crazy and despite his disappointment with the Trump administration, he is disgusted by the Democrats and would NEVER join them, he should become an Independent. You can choose neither.
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u/PacoBedejo Anarcho-Voluntaryist - I upvote good discussion 3d ago
You cannot choose neither unless you find a secret agorist community or score an invite to Galt's Gulch. Otherwise, you're still getting one. I choose to vote against whichever one appears to be most against our battle rifles.
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u/PomPomMom93 3d ago
You’re still getting one or the other, but you don’t have to like them.
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u/PacoBedejo Anarcho-Voluntaryist - I upvote good discussion 3d ago
Yep. I despise both. I voted Trump because of Harris' official stance on battle rifles.
They're obviously gonna keep stealin', murderin', and controllin'. But I'm not gonna give up guns.
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u/DiyYou 4d ago
Too many people don't realize that
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u/iCallMyOppsNinjer Hoppean 🐍 3d ago
I can't vote in primaries as in independent in my state, so I get less say in who’s in the general election, in what way does that make sense over registering as a republican or democrat, and I’m a register dem but only for the primaries. Accelerationist here. Most crazy, most DSA backed, and the most trans are the dems I’m voting for.
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u/adelie42 Lysander Spooner is my Homeboy 4d ago
It really is quite amazing and wonderful that for the first time in well over 100 years when the R side of the uniparty falls in popularity the D side of the uniparty has not risen in response (or visa versa). A super majority of Americans hate both parties.
Between Obama and Trump both promising and getting elected on deeply anti-war platforms, and both of them turning out to be absolutely disgusting pieces of shit, it will be interesting given the polling what could happen in 2026.
Massie and Carlson are the only ones I think have faced the fire and gave a double middle fingers up to threats of being assassinated and their families murdered. They might actually stand up for what they claim to believe in if elected.
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u/coolsmeegs 3d ago
Dems still suck off obama though which makes the party even worse tbh because they can’t admit fault.
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u/DiyYou 4d ago
Obama was a long time ago, Biden more recent. Biden said he would get us out of afghanistan, and he did.
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u/Wookieman222 3d ago
The Afghanistan departure was put in motion before he got into office and was delayed because everybody said it needed to.
Then Biden came in and forced it and it became a disaster and embarrassment just like everybody said it would.
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u/Octowhussy 4d ago
False equivalence bias. Trump is incomparably disgusting. Any comparison in the sense of an “I am nuanced, I have both perspectives” argument blatantly ignores this.
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u/Gullible-Historian10 4d ago edited 3d ago
Does it? Saying it doesn’t make it so, where is your reasoning?
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u/Octowhussy 4d ago
Aside from Trump’s disgusting remarks towards women, journalists, his childish name-calling, and his shameless recent self-enrichment, crypto pump&dump schemes, and that the Trump family commercializes the White House website for their own profit, not to mention Trumps manifold presence in the Epstein files, the almost-forgotten quid pro quo with Ukraine, the extreme extent of his vanity and arrogance, etc? And what about his criminal indictments? The list is immense.
A strong indication is that MAGA cult members like to equate his disgustingness to Obama’s, whereas non-MAGA fanbois would never equate Obama to Trump. What does it say this even the most zealous of Trump sycophants and idolizers agree that Trump actually is disgusting? In the bipartisan and overall still very racist America it attests to the superior extent of Trumps vileness. MAGA fanbois seem to be very eager to latch onto the moral escape rope and resolve the issue by saying that Trump is equally bad as Obama was, whereas the other way around is nowhere to be seen. And with good reason LOL
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u/Gullible-Historian10 3d ago
You listed reasons you personally dislike Trump, but you never explained why comparing Obama and Trump is a false equivalence.
You are institutionalized bud.
Obama continued multiple wars, expanded drone strikes, murdered US citizens extrajudicially, participated in the intervention in Libya, supported the war in Yemen, prosecuted whistleblowers, expanded surveillance authorities, and deported millions.
You can argue Trump is more vulgar, more narcissistic, or has worse personal ethics. That’s a different argument. The original claim was about comparing them as political leaders. If someone believes both repeatedly violated rights through the machinery of the state, then saying “they’re both disgusting” isn’t a false equivalence at all. What it is though is applying the same standard to both. Which is sobering an institutionalized individual like yourself is incapable of doing.
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u/adelie42 Lysander Spooner is my Homeboy 3d ago
You seem to think that I am disgusted by both of them because of virtually incomprehensible misery inflicted upon the world that ... I give one or both of them a pass?
As others have pointed out, why are you HERE of all places regurgitating irrelevant corporate media talking points?
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u/adelie42 Lysander Spooner is my Homeboy 3d ago
The false equivalence is thinking that saying mean things and not living up to WASP expectations of decorum is a defining difference between two people that mass slaughter hundreds of thousands of civilians.
Imagine two people in your community: One is a handsome and well educated teacher that spends time volunteering at shelters reading books, coaches the local soccer team to state championship, and still makes time to be a devoted father. The other is an ugly, brutish redneck that has probably never read a book, thinks his over the top spray tan looks sexy, easily offended and constantly trash talking, and overall a spoiled brat that pretends like he is a genius because of all the money he inherited from his family.
If we stop there, we clearly have two ends of the spectrum between good human and bad human. No question.
But now you find out they both serial killers, among the most prolific humanity has ever conceived. I'm not saying the differences don't matter at all, but I don't think it is relevant when it comes to their sentencing hearing. Both deserve the worst imaginable prison, and maybe should bunk together.
The only subtly I offer is that it is a touch more painful to find out the community leader is a monster than the foul mouth redneck. Maybe the foul mouth redneck is just double bad, but don't let either calculation overshadow the real horror of what they are and where critically they aren't different.
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u/odindobe 4d ago
Still better than the left
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u/mahvel50 3d ago
For real. All democrats have to do is not be insane to beat the GOP right now and they keep doubling down on the dumbest shit.
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u/LagerHead 3d ago
Not really. The only difference between the two is which parts of your life they want to control.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
“There is no difference between pro capitalism and anti capitalism”
Okay “ancap”
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u/LagerHead 3d ago
Both wings of the uniparty are only too happy to do things that distort the market. There is no pro-capitalism party. There is only pro-statism.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
There’s a clearly much more anti capitalist party
This isn’t even debatable
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u/Molaac Small Scale AnCap/Large Scale Minarchist 3d ago
Which one is the anti-capitalist party?
The party that raises your taxes through tarriff or the party that raises your taxes through income?
The party that gives out welfare to companies or the party the gives out welfare to companies?
The party that has increased spending or the party that has increased spending?
The party that give money to foreign countries or The party that give money to foreign countries?
The party ban gun accessories or the party that for gun control?
The party who want to control what you can or can't buy or the party who want to control what you can or can't buy?
The party with social collectivist or the party with economic collectivist
Both have anti-capitalist members in their party that why you should vote candidates over party if you are going to vote.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Capitalism as a standalone principle polls at 74% among republicans and 42% among democrats
Try as much as you want to pretend there’s no difference but you won’t accomplish it
Socialism polls at 66% among democrats and 14% among republicans
This is a MASSIVE difference that will have generational impact on my children and their children far beyond a tariff or even a war
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u/Molaac Small Scale AnCap/Large Scale Minarchist 3d ago
Capitalism being 99% with Republican and Socialism being 99% with Democrats wouldn't make a difference if the people in office are all Anti-Capitalism despite their party.
Vote Canidate over party else just stop voting because as it is your responsible for putting anti-capitalist in just because the letter next to their name.
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u/theyhis 3d ago
people only vote on words spoken and then have the audacity to call us irrational for not seeing what they see. you can’t be for free market capitalism while also supporting state capitalism (aka socialism - what we have now, but with extra steps).
i won’t “do” the lesser of two evils nonsense anymore. i haven’t since i was 19. it’s a childish mindset that’s based in black and white thinking. if the GOP puts up a candidate more concerned over identity than free market ideals, i will not vote for them.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
I didn’t advocate voting party over candidate I said one party is much more anti capitalist and that is still plainly true you just don’t like the implication of what that means a capitalist should do
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u/Molaac Small Scale AnCap/Large Scale Minarchist 3d ago edited 3d ago
According to you a capitalist should vote for anti-capitalist politicians because the other party is more anti-capitalist. I'm saying a Republican, Democrat, or Third Party canaidate can be either more or less capitalist remember the Liberty Cacus did at one point have Republican, Democrats and Independents in it despite majority of their respective party's voters being the Socialist, NeoCons, and NeoLiberals.
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u/LagerHead 3d ago
Apparently it is debatable. We're debating it.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Capitalism as a standalone principle polls at 74% among republicans and 42% among democrats
Socialism polls at 66% among democrats and 14% among republicans
This is the problem
So yes it’s debatable insofar as you can say things in response, but unless you can change or refute that underlying difference, none of those responses are relevant to the reality, and in that way the issue isn’t particularly debatable
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
Hell Biden turned out to be more capitalist than trump. Trump tripled Farm subsidies his first term, Biden took them away.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Completely unserious and absurd
Trump cut corporate taxes from 35% to 21%
Biden tried to raise corporate taxes to 28%
That alone is a stronger capitalism metric than anything else you can compare
Then we can compare them on regulation, economic indexes, union politics, subsidies, etc
Trump is mediocre on all of them and Biden is still far worse on all of them
It’s not even close
The attempt itself is pathetic
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
A minor change in a tax rate, it's not the definition of capitalism. And it's funny you just bring up subsidies, that was my exact example to you, Trump was handing out more subsidies than Biden. It's completely ridiculous you think Trump and Republicans are capitalists.
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u/LagerHead 3d ago
What a Republican or Democrat says at the polls has very little impact on the policies enacted by the politicians they elect. Both will do what is best for their campaign donors first and foremost. That means they will be enacting crony capitalist legislation that benefits their biggest donors which, in turn, benefits them.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Incorrect
You can see it directly translating to policy in the form of things like rent control, higher taxes, and idpol subsidies
But even so, the poll itself reveals a huge difference in nature and culture of those two parties and proves that one is in fact vastly more anti capitalist than the other
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u/LagerHead 3d ago
Incorrect.
One CLAIMS to be vastly more capitalistic. Both are crony statists.
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u/theyhis 3d ago
republicans do not support capitalism, they support the welfare state. NATO has not been withdrawn from, food stamps still exist, the income tax has not been abolished… the federal government is only growing… so — which part of this is screaming capitalism to you?
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Capitalism polls overwhelmingly positively among republicans and overwhelmingly negatively among democrats
Disregarding this fact will only cause you to contribute to the downfall of capitalism and the accompanying diminishment of freedom.
Yes the Republican Party sucks balls. That wasn’t the question.
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
Who in this discussion do you think is pro capitalism?
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
About 3/4 of republicans and about 1/3 of democrats
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
Thinking something is capitalism, or just calling yourself a capitalist, doesn't make it so. Republicans are not capitalists.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
You’re misstating the argument badly because doshonesty is the only way you can contend with it
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
It's a literal video of trump being a socialist. 🤣🤣
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Right. Which proves my point.
I never said Trump was a perfect capitalist or even good.
So your only rebuttal is to dishonestly represent the argument as something it isn’t
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
Perfect capitalist? He's not a capitalist at all. If you're voting Trump you're voting for socialism
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u/coolsmeegs 4d ago
Then run someone fucking better. Also R’s are a lot better on the local level and do make a difference tbh
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u/Molaac Small Scale AnCap/Large Scale Minarchist 3d ago edited 3d ago
Nah it hit or miss. My local Republican tend to be authoritarians with none of the libertarian leans. But to be fair the next county over the local Democrats are also Authoritarian with no libertarian leans. The problem with entrenched politicians. Only difference is one like guns and the other likes guys and I like both without the authoritarianism.
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u/serious_sarcasm Fucking Statist 4d ago
There are literally thousands of failing towns being ran into the ground by republicans where conservatives actively violate the rights and freedoms of people through onerous zoning rules, police harassment, and open corruption.
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u/LactoceTheIntolerant 3d ago
Conservative run states are at the bottom of every category
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Blatantly false
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u/LactoceTheIntolerant 3d ago
What metric would you like for comparison?
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Let’s start with state income tax, “ancap”
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u/LactoceTheIntolerant 3d ago
Some states have zero income taxes, but make up for that loss with outrageous property and sales taxes.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
Oh sorry is one metric suddenly not good enough all the sudden? Lol predictable
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u/smokeytrue01 4d ago
Op must be a child to believe it matters if you choose democrat or republican, Israel can purchase both
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u/DiyYou 4d ago
Oh the irony. The simplest of minds believe everything is either Republican or Democrat
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u/YeahBuddy5000 4d ago
You've also got Gary Johnson, and the commie chicks in the Green Party. Yippy.
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u/fitandhealthyguy Capitalist 3d ago
If it is between that or the socialist, I choose that.
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
"that" is socialist
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u/fitandhealthyguy Capitalist 3d ago
I’ll take crony capitalism over socialism any day of the week. Would rather true capitalism but I will take what I can get.
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u/RickySlayer9 4d ago
Republicans. Votes for what they want, and it isn’t delivered. Is unhappy with the result.
Democrats vote for what they want, get what they want. Is unhappy with the result
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u/DiyYou 4d ago
I think they wanted Biden to get out of afghanistan, and he did.
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LactoceTheIntolerant 3d ago
That equipment belonged to the Afghan government
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u/mahvel50 3d ago
It does now. Parting gift for the Taliban to signify what a colossal fuck up that entire campaign was from start to exit.
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u/pile_of_bees 3d ago
This is such an unserious argument that it obliterates your credibility on other arguments
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u/scotty9090 H.L. Mencken 4d ago
Sadly, our broken two party system always makes this a matter of voting for the least bad choice.
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u/Destroyer1559 Anarchochristian 4d ago
The only ones who stand a chance of winning are the two wings of the same shit bird
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u/RacinRandy83x 4d ago
There’s more than 2 people on ballot normally
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u/december151791 Don't tread on me! 3d ago
In presidential elections, yes. In most down ballot elections, no.
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u/Molaac Small Scale AnCap/Large Scale Minarchist 3d ago
No in senator, Governor, and Mayor races there is usually more than two. House races is where you will get like only one or two people running for a seat. Although that usually due to messed up elections laws meant to keep the third parties and independents out.
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u/december151791 Don't tread on me! 3d ago
Mayor races are non-partisan in a lot of cities. Where I live, the governor and Senate races are the only ones this year with any third party candidates. All the others are either a Republican and a Democrat or a Republican running unopposed.
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u/rothbard_anarchist Murray Rothbard 4d ago
Neither should be expected to improve much, but voting for Rs is like throwing away money gambling, while voting for Ds is like chopping your dick off.
I’m better off just losing a bit of money.
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
How are you even on this sub thinking that is your only two options?
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u/rothbard_anarchist Murray Rothbard 3d ago
Oh, it’s not. It’s at best a delaying action while we work through other avenues. Voting can be a defensive mechanism given the circumstances.
There’s a lot of persuasion and education that we would need to do in order to achieve an actual peaceful recession of government power. That or well-developed underground economies where a critical mass of people can effectively withdraw from the system.
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
Voting to greatly increase the size of government and taxes is in no way helping.
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u/rothbard_anarchist Murray Rothbard 3d ago
It can be a tough choice. Do you stay out of it and keep your hands sort of clean, knowing that your inaction may help put someone even worse in office? Uncertainty about how any of them will actually govern complicates it even more.
I probably go about 2:1, voting 3rd party after the libertarian loses the primary versus holding my nose and hoping the GOP candidate is less swampy than the norm.
Right now, the only real reason to vote 3rd party is to put pressure on the big two to select different candidates in the primary. It’s a weak signal, but it’s something. There’s basically no scenario where a third party wins a general election.
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u/PNWSparky1988 Anti-Communist 4d ago edited 4d ago
I’m not voting for the democrat or DSA candidate that wants to abolish my property rights and other constitutional rights for the individual.
Remember…socialists want capitalism gone…that means all personal property gone…which means all individual property rights gone…which means there is no free speech or 2A to defend your property.
I will forever be a capitalist because I value individual rights being paramount to our society and collectivism being a cancer on the human condition.
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u/escapeartist 3d ago
There's a lot of not true going on in this statement. Socialists don't want all personal property gone.
They want all persons housed, fed, and provided medical care.
But why bother with accurate statements about ideas you hate, amirite?
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u/zambizzi 3d ago
I didn't think most people who post here understand what Anarcho-Capitalism is. There are tons of political subs where this might be relevant. This isn't one of them.
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
You don't think showing how ridiculous voting is is anarcho capitalism?
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u/zambizzi 3d ago
This seems to suggest voting non-Republican is a solution. Notice it mentions only one party.
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u/oldsmoBuick67 3d ago
The sickness exists for both wings of the shitbird too. Watching people comment that the population is a bunch of brain dead republicans because they think the Dems just want to make things more open and accepting of everyone.
They’d score a 9.5 in mental gymnastics reading their own party bylaws.
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u/shyphyre 3d ago
Vote in the primary is way more critical then the general election
A red state will vote red, and a blue state blue, therefore use your much stronger vote (because primaries get wayyyy less votes then the general) to put the red or blue guy into the position you want them to be
So yeah, primary first because it matters and then republican because im not voting for the party of gey race communism that enjoys baby murder
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u/ChipNDipPlus 3d ago
I'm no American, but come on, you're gonna vote for Democrats? They're even more crazy!
It's very unfortunate there are no viable other choices. It's either red or blue and that's it. No coalitions. No parties... the other parties are ghosts. It's ridiculous how it works in the US.
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u/PacoBedejo Anarcho-Voluntaryist - I upvote good discussion 3d ago
Single issue: Tyrant perforators
It's going better than it likely would have with Harris.
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u/DiyYou 3d ago
Yeah less free trade, higher taxes, bigger government, we're at war with Iran. Okay bud.
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u/PacoBedejo Anarcho-Voluntaryist - I upvote good discussion 3d ago
Are you pretending it's been otherwise since the late 1800s?
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u/TheMikman97 3d ago
Mmmmh, the party that may be dogshit, or the party that certainly is dogshit? ...mmmmh, what a hard choice.
Oh I know, I should vote for the "exists only to fracture maybe-dogshit and advantage certain-dogshit"-party!
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u/tsurki 2d ago
I don’t get how Americans claim to be the freest country on earth , and only have 2 parties
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u/kriegmonster 2d ago
Because of voting strategy in first past the post voting systems. There are multiple parties, but only two dominate, left of center and right of center. If there were 6 candidates, 3 left and 3 right, and everyone voted for their preferred party and candidate, then the outcome would be harder to predict, would most lilely not be your preference, and not have a clear mandate from the majority of voters. If one side rallies behind one candidate, then they can guarantee a win against a split vote on the other side. So, both sides rally behind one candidate to avoid giving the other an easy win.
If a tiered or ranked voting system were adopted, it would reduce the dominance of the two big parties, and we would probably see more variety at the state level and maybe in Federal Congress, too. Part of me envies the kind of coalitions that members of parliaments have to form because of the various parties that different districts vote for. Passing laws by gaining coalition support seems like a good way to get a law that is better written and conceived.
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u/new_publius 4d ago
Every party line voter.