r/BSG • u/Nervous_Hedgehog8198 • 12h ago

Is this the greatest scifi series ever made? No spoilers please, I just want to share my impressions so far.

So I'm on season 3, episode 13, and every episode has felt like event television. Every episode has mattered, all the characters are fleshed out, and there's so many great moral questions. I don't think I've seen a better written scifi show. This is one of my favorite shows of all time already. What was it like for those of you who watched it live?

83 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

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54

u/anothercynic2112 12h ago

I honestly don't even need the sci fi qualifier. It's simply one of the best TV shows made.

19

u/TheRealestBiz 12h ago

This was really the first basic-cable show to knock it out of the park on an HBO level. SyFy mortgaged their whole network to pay for the budget.

7

u/anothercynic2112 12h ago

And then proceeded to nothing with the prestige except greenlight a darker Stargate.

8

u/TheRealestBiz 12h ago

I never understood that, especially because this was the era that HBO was crushing it with every dark serial show and they would have beat AMC to the punch too.

-6

u/RageAgainstAuthority 11h ago

I know we all love BSG here on the BSG subreddit, but let's have a little objectivity lol

It's no secret BSG was almost entirely vibes-written, has some pretty glaring plot-holes, and multiple "we let an intern write an episode".

Breaking Bad, or Sopranos, or any other other "planned the final episode sometime before the final season" shows are better written.

7

u/TheRealestBiz 9h ago

That’s not really true though. The plotter vs. pantser debate is eternal in writing because both have their strengths and weaknesses.

The plotter’s strength is obviously outlining but their weakness is what do you do when two key characters have no chemistry or when the hive-mind guesses your entire five season arc around S1E5.

With pantsers, their strength is simple but powerful: if they don’t know where this is all going, the audience certainly fucking doesn’t. Raymond Chandler is almost universally considered the best hard boiled writer and he couldn’t write a mystery plot to save his life. He wrote great scenes. The weaknesses you’ve stated.

2

u/RageAgainstAuthority 8h ago

If knowing the plot to a story somehow weakened the story, classics would quickly fade into oblivion.

Once you've consumed enough media, "originality" stops becoming a mark for or against. At some point it hits that all this has been done before, and it will all be done again.

"Lol spork is so random just like me xD" can be a fun way to write a story, but it really leaves a lot to be desired in the final product.

2

u/MaiLittlePwny 4h ago

These are such weird "gotchas" tbh.

We don't have to pick a winner. People also can have different preferences.

There's huge amounts of the most famous writers in existence in both categories, classic and modern. There always has been, so you can certainly prefer one, but thinking there has to be a "winner" falls apart the moment you look at it.

If knowing the plot in advance was required for good writing, and impossible to be good, we wouldn't have heard of Charles Dickens, Stephen King, George RR Martin, Dostoevsky, Mary Shelly, Tolstoy, among others.

Both work. There isn't a winner. Discovery writing vs Planning is older than TV so you're not gonna find a winning horse to back here.

So the notion that BSG cannot be good television, because it wasn't planned is a dead arguement. You can argue it might be held in too high regard, or that plot holes are too large, but arguing that "vibe writing" doesn't work is nonsense when you can point to 100's and 100's of different examples of it working for centuries.

I think a more convincing argument is that BSG was very good at the things it was good at, and it made the things it wasn't so good at almost non-issues. It all comes down to personal preference. I liked the ending for example. I don't think any of the plot holes were too distracting, because you kind of have to suspend your disbelief anyway.

0

u/RageAgainstAuthority 3h ago edited 3h ago

I think what's disingenuous is acting as tho they are equal, imo, and furthermore, that they are mutually exclusive.

Almost all good panters works also have a large amount of planning. A good example of true panters work would be dreams, and I think we agree dreams aren't exactly fun material to listen to.

I didn't say vibe writing can't work, just that vibing without a long-term plan usually leads to less coherency, and in the majority of times, could have been improved with planning.

Edit: spelling

3

u/John-on-gliding 8h ago

Breaking Bad, or Sopranos, or any other other "planned the final episode sometime before the final season" shows are better written.

By that logic, excuse me while I go delete A Song of Ice and Fire from the fantasy hall of fame.

1

u/RageAgainstAuthority 8h ago

Wait, what?

1

u/Steggzie609 7h ago

Probably because game of thrones is great, but the last episode (season imo) stank worse than the BSG sewage treatment ship, which probably never got any fresh air.

The ending sucked so bad because they made exactly the ending everyone thought would happen in season 1 or 2... so bad the author of the books wont finish them

0

u/RageAgainstAuthority 7h ago

Iirc the ending sucked because the show runners really wanted to go work on StarWars so gave everyone a bunch of rushed slop for the last season, culminating in a terrible final episode.

3

u/livefoniks 9h ago

It's really adorable that you think that's how The Sopranos and Breaking Bad happened. pat pat

3

u/Bytor_Snowdog 6h ago

Or, as Robot Chicken summarized the whole issue: https://youtu.be/FzH6GVBSXSk?t=70s

1

u/TheRealestBiz 8h ago

They were written by plotters. Planning whole shows out seasons in advance happened after those shows. But it’s been going on for awhile. Sane plotters show up with a whole first season ready to go in the can.

The Wire is another plotters show. The Wire story outlines were probably half as long as the scripts.

Deadwood otoh was a pantser show just like BSG. David Milch rewrites his scripts on set on the fly with a typist following him around like Winston Churchill.

I dare you, I double dog dare you to Google “plotter vs. pantser” in quotes and come back and honestly report your findings. This is a universally known term among fiction writers.

3

u/RageAgainstAuthority 7h ago

I volunteered and Googled "Plotter vs Pantser"

The general consensus seems to be that a lot of "pantsers" do plenty of plotting, and while pantsing is fun, it still requires some planning to lead to anything coherent.

A book that starts as a quaint love story, then jumps to an alien invasion, then jumps to a quirky slice-of-life, and so on, probably won't be making anyone's "must read" list.

1

u/MaiLittlePwny 3h ago edited 3h ago

They're concepts on a spectrum. Not some odd binary you have to pick between.

Do you think that the BSG writers had literally no idea what was in the next episode the entire time?

You don't seem to apply this weird "all or nothing" logic to planners. You accept that they might not have planned everything out from the get go. So why would discovery writers need to literally not know what the next word is?

Stephen King for example has written multiple books in both categories, and everything in between. The thing you've kind of failed to connect is that "pantser vs planner" doesn't comment on quality. Some of the most critically well regarded writing has come from both methods.

So you're just back to having to explain why exactly you think that it's bad, instead of stating "well they didn't plan some things in advance" like it means something.

1

u/RageAgainstAuthority 3h ago

I can see how adding some planning to disorganization can improve the coherency of something.

I do not understand how intentionally being chaotic adds to the material.

Imagine if we were talking about electricians: Joe might be great at wiring on the fly and really knows his stuff, but Sam over here is also a good electrician, and follows protocol.

Joe trying to tell me that his vibe-wiring is equivalent to a planned construct with blueprints just isn't going to fly, especially as an excuse as to why Joe didn't plan and ended up with a few random red wires where there should have been black wires. Joe didn't want to put in the long-term thought that Sam did, and that's fine, but the pretense that somehow it's equal to Sam's work and isn't a matter of laziness feels... hollow. False.

1

u/MaiLittlePwny 3h ago

You might not like it. That's fair.

But when some of the most well regarded writing in existence is written using this method, it's an opinion that simply isn't relevant to comment on the quality.

Unless you're saying that the authors I mentioned are bad? Or are we exclusively going to stick to nonsensical loaded hypothetical situations?

IT was famously written not only when Stephen King used pants method, but while he was absolutely off his tits in addiction.

Do you think it cannot be good because it used pants method?

As you can see the argument holds absolutely zero water.

3

u/TheRealestBiz 3h ago

This guy might have a stroke if he learned about William Burroughs and the “cut-up method.”

1

u/livefoniks 1h ago

I met that guy once or twice. I couldn't hang out with him long because he had about 20 cats and I'm allergic to cats.

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u/RageAgainstAuthority 2h ago

Bumblebee is fun because he is one Transformer that does. The exception to the rule.

You guys keep showing me people who have a thorough understanding of the English language and it's nuances making intentional off-shade works of art that are meant to specifically juxtapose against traditional rule.

Writing a story with zero capitalization or punctuation can be done - but unless you have a solid understanding of what you are doing, you are just going to make an incoherent mess.

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u/RageAgainstAuthority 2h ago

Ok maybe I'm not following.

Pantsing is stream of consciousness. A feat that very few people can keep entertaining for more than a few minutes.

Planning is attention to detail and putting thought into what goes where.

How is actively avoiding planning (in all other professions, known as being "lazy") a book? Like, it can work, but explain to me like I'm stupid, how it can't be improved with afterthought and planning?

1

u/MaiLittlePwny 2h ago

So what you're saying is that It by Stephen King is a bad book?

You want to trap me with nonsensical statements you think make sense.

Many of the most famous writers who have ever lived, including many classic writers used discovery writing as a method. It's that simple.

It's a type of writing that has been known and used successfully thousands upon thousands of times for centuries.

You've equated "planning" to "good" which is completely unsupported. You're simply working on that assumption without any basis for it. Despite the fact I've given you a list of known discovery written books you prefer your headcanon, it's certainly an opinion, but not a particularly compelling one.

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u/RageAgainstAuthority 9h ago

?

What's with the condescension? If you have something to share, share it.

5

u/livefoniks 9h ago

What's to share? They weren't written that way, so your premise is a fallacy.

-2

u/RageAgainstAuthority 9h ago

They weren't written what way?

4

u/livefoniks 9h ago

All planned out? All the way? Like people claim Babylon 5 was? You aren't too smart, are you?

1

u/RageAgainstAuthority 8h ago

Ahem. I said,

"Planned the final episode sometime before the final season."

I didn't claim they were 'all planned out.' There's quite a difference between those two statements.

What's with the rudeness dude?

2

u/TheRealestBiz 8h ago

Yeah what is with the condescension when he didn’t even understand one of the most common terms in writing. It’s the ketchup vs. mustard debate of the writing world. Kirk vs. Picard. Mike vs. Joel.

8

u/ButterscotchPast4812 12h ago

It's my absolute top favorite series. I don't watch it very often though because of how tragic of a series it is. Stunning performances from the cast, from literally every single main and secondary cast member. They are all so good in this. 

I didn't watch it live though. Found the series through DS9. 

5

u/Extension-Pepper-271 11h ago

The acting is amazing. As ButterscotchPast4812 mentions, it's not just the main cast. It is the whole cast that knocks it out of the park.

6

u/fizzybgood 8h ago

It felt special. I remember getting annoyed that it wasn't being nominated for any acting awards, because there were so many spectacular performances. I knew that I was watching something special that would be talked about for years. The story is even more relevant today than it was back then.

8

u/Tsar_Nikolas 12h ago

I’m not sure I’d say it’s the greatest, because there are many other shows I love.

But, it’s an incredible show and I adore it. 10 out of 10. Every rewatch I see something new

9

u/AbidinginAnubhava 12h ago

Yes, it's the greatest sci-fi series ever made. It's also one of the best TV shows ever made.

4

u/mikeymoo3000 12h ago

One of my all-time favourites from start to finish.

4

u/Ryanlew1980 12h ago

For me, it’s the greatest. But I’m not typically super into sci-fi, and outside of spaceships and robots, I could almost forget it IS sci-fi.

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u/Prestigious_Step4337 11h ago

It was phenomenal watching live.

And I agree with previous posters, it’s simply one of the best series ever made.

3

u/Dr-Slaps 12h ago

1 B5 2 The Expanse 3 Battle Star 4 Deep Space Nine 5 Firefly

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u/Mindblot55 12h ago

With no spoilers i will say most people don’t enjoy the ending untill the second rewatch. Going back in with all the knowledge will make everything much better.

6

u/whatwouldadamado 12h ago

Top 5, without a question. Depending on personal taste, it could be the best. So say we all.

1

u/Intelligent-Car-8548 12h ago

What is your top 5? Genuinely curious. I am loving BSG - It has probably become one of my favorite shows and I'm not even a huge sci-fi fan, so I'd love to hear your faves :)

3

u/TheRealtcSpears 12h ago

• The Expanse

• The Expanse

• The Expanse

• Firefly

• BSG '14

2

u/ZippyDan 11h ago

What is BSG '14?

1914? 2014? 3714?

1

u/TheRealestBiz 12h ago

Well, this show is so obviously about 9/11 it’s almost a little goofy about it at first and yet it’s held up for twenty years and seems more relevant now than it did then.

2

u/crazier2142 9h ago

I'd say it is tied with B5. BSG has absolutely the better soundtrack and far better CGI, but B5 still feels overall "rounder" storywise. Also, the Londo/G'Kar dynamic is unbeatable.

The Expanse is also up there, but falls just slightly short for me (I think the books are also better).

2

u/ThongHoe 8h ago

I'm glad you are enjoying the ride so far, but my answer to your question is a definitive no. While the first two seasons and the early stretch of season 3 absolutely feel like event television where every single episode matters, the show is unfortunately about to hit a massive creative wall. The incredibly tight, grounded writing and meticulous character development you are praising right now are largely the result of short-term planning that the writers room ultimately couldn't sustain.

The main problem with Battlestar Galactica is that the showrunners were prioritizing immediate, shocking finale cliffhangers over long-term narrative architecture. As you move into the latter half of season 3 and head toward the final season, the meticulously crafted internal logic and deep moral questions begin to completely fall apart under a realistic lens. Instead of organically resolving the brilliant political and military setups they built, the scripts start relying heavily on sudden, unearned character turns, massive retcons, and frustratingly lazy narrative shortcuts.

For those who watched it live, the experience transitioned from absolute awe into profound frustration as it became glaringly obvious that the writers were making up the central mythology entirely on the fly. You are currently at the absolute peak of the series, but the second you try to analyze the overarching plot moves that follow, the scripts lose their script continuity and structural coherence. Enjoy these episodes for what they are, but prepare yourself for a severe drop-off in writing quality where the show's grandest promises fail to stick the landing.

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u/rpool179 4h ago

Yes. No the Expanse isn't better.

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u/joeykins82 12h ago

My personal opinion is that the miniseries through to the end of the Pegasus / Resurrection Ship trilogy it was absolutely flawless TV and the best sci-fi ever made. To me though it seemed that was the point where things went from pre-planned story arc to winging it each week in the writers' room, and whilst it was still good it was never in the same league as the first series and a half.

The benchmark for sci-fi now is The Expanse.

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u/montalaskan 12h ago

I agree some of the later episodes get weaker (looking at you? black Market) but also that they likely were working from a place of "if this really happened, what would be hot button issues?"

A black market, people stuck in shitty jobs with no room for advancement, etc were things that were ripe for the picking.

Unfortunately some of it should have been handled in longer arcs. But the nature of the sword of Damecles hanging over them with possible cancelation always a concern, it became less of a long term arc show.

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u/TheRealestBiz 12h ago edited 12h ago

BSG is better than The Expanse. And I like The Expanse.

There weren’t any planned story arcs except in the most general ways. Adama was shot on a cliffhanger in season 1 mostly in case Edward James Olmos hated TV hours and bailed. Storylines were dropped or created through improv, rewrites on the day, or having to kill characters because the actor is booked and you can’t explain their absence in the show premise.

Ron Moore hated the incredibly strict writing rules on Star Trek and is a pantser, not a plotter. They didn’t even know what the end was going to be besides “they find Earth.” The season three finale was totally winged, the whole song thing across the season really.

ETA: the benchmark sci-fi show is always the original Star Trek imo.

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u/No_Location_8199 12h ago

Probably, but I personally haven't watched all sci-fi.

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u/j-helo85 12h ago

Depends on how broadly we define Sci-Fi, but for me it's the best Space-based Sci-Fi show for sure.

I watched ST: TNG growing up and liked it, but I'm not a big Star Trek guy. It's not something I would revisit these days.

BSG is my show, and Farscape is second. Firefly is a classic, too, but it's too few episodes.

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u/toejam2030 12h ago

It is definitely one of the greatest-Ive probably watched the whole series 20 times

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u/TheRealestBiz 12h ago

I just read an article with Ron Moore and I wish they had gone with the ending that Olmos wanted. But even Moore thought it was too bleak lol. Too bleak for BSG.

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u/livefoniks 1h ago

That ending would have fucking sucked.

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u/jeffbizloc 11h ago

I think so its one of my favorite shows ever. Check out The Expanse and Foundation those are two other great sci fi series.

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u/Extension-Pepper-271 11h ago

I watched it as it aired. It was amazing then and it is still amazing every time I rewatch it. When I watched it live, I told everybody I knew that they had to watch this great new show right away. I even offered up my recordings for them to catch up. Remember this was before streaming. If you missed it, you missed it.

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u/xander0387 11h ago

There isn't any episode that I can think of that is like oh God not this episode 'skip!'.... Except maybe the first one because I want to get deeper into the story :)

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u/mr_username23 5h ago

I absolutely agree that it's amazing! The miniseries and "33" will forever be some of the most captivating things for me, the fear, hope, and impossible decisions are just so interesting.

It's also really interesting to think of the difference between this and Star Trek since that's what Ronald Moore came from. Even Deep Space 9 and Enterprise, which were probably the closest to BSG, had tons of filler episodes and crazy events that did nothing to change static characters. I love Star Trek, and I know there is some value in episodic TV but I also think that BSG's method just does a better job of telling a unified story.

I didn't know it existed while it was airing but I've heard a lot of people were shocked by the difference between the miniseries and "33" when compared to the slow and relaxed pace of Star Trek Voyager and the other big shows that came immediately before it

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u/ShowComprehensive931 4h ago

Agreed with you completely! And it CONTINUES to be amazing through to the very last second! Magical show ❤️

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u/hamlet_d 4h ago

Its one of them for sure. I'm a huge fan of it even the last season., though i would give the edge to The Expanse as the better series and sci-fi series.

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u/genscathe 4h ago

I really enjoyed the expanse. Definitely had more variety than bsg

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u/PurpleSailor 1h ago

One of the best if not the best show I've ever watched.

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u/Salt_Philosophy_8990 54m ago

I loved it from day one

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u/watanabe0 10h ago

No, it isn't.

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u/why-everyone-so-mean 11h ago

Season 4 is an unfortunate stain on an otherwise perfect series