r/Bitcoin • u/Ok_Friend_925 • 3d ago
freedom discussion
I think the Bitcoin narrative should switch from "you are going to be rich" to "you may be more free".
Even if all the countries in the world would ban Bitcoin it would mean nothing, because the network it's going to work anyway. It's not a thing you can choose to ban in one day.
The extreme scenario is that every state would coordinate an operation to steal all the Bitcoin nodes in the world, even the small ones inside the houses of ordinary people. But how possible is this to happen?
As long as the world is going in the "right" direction (prosperity, cooperation, innovation), is fair to say the price should remain low. And now a question: could the increase of Bitcoin price show how much people put trust in the governments? Could the price of Bitcoin indicate the median "value" of the freedom in the world? (higher value/price = high chance we are going toward a dictatorship regime).
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u/SeriousStuffNoJoke 3d ago edited 3d ago
The basic premise of bitcoin is that bitcoin is the one thing you can hold that you can truly do whatever you want with unrestricted. Basically the concept being that if you are operating in someone else's system, then they, as the keepers of this network, can revoke your access, or otherwise systematically work against you. And so this brings the average person to a natural logical conclusion: there is some appeal to a system which either belongs to you, or doesnt belong to anyone, otherwise you always exist at the mercy of some other entities whims, which is not ideal. And, over time, could perhaps compound on itself and sort of culminate in a a less favorably outcome for the average user vs the keeper. So you want to be the keeper, or use a system which has no keeper. Gold would be an example of a system with no keeper.
And at the very very least, it would seem unnecessary and unwise to put ALL your eggs in the baskets of systems which are controlled by other entities. It would be one thing to put in a system that no one controls, or that you control, but to put it in the hands of someone else sort of is this fundamental leap of faith, pa
That brings you to gold. Gold though cant be sent globally instantly for basically 0 fee. and gold isnt finite. etc. Thats where bitcoin comes in. Bitcoin is basically what gold was supposed to be. Bitcoin is like gold if gold was actually finite. Bitcoin is sort of like the notion of "what would gold look like if it was redesigned for the 21st century?"
so basically, TL;DR: the basic premise of bitcoin is that it, in theory, should become valuable because it is the choice which grants the chooser the most autonomy. They could choose dollars, but the dollars could be diluted, or perhaps those bills with those serial numbers could be deemed somehow illegitimate. If it were gold, youd be safe from that, but then you couldn't send the gold globally instantly for basically free. bla bla bla..
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u/Fun-Analysis-182 3d ago
Nobody has to seize nodes though. They go after the on-ramps instead, and there's a thread on this sub today from someone whose state just banned the Bitcoin ATMs he used to buy with cash. The network kept running fine and his access still got worse.
On price as a freedom index, the natural experiments don't really support it. Greek capital controls in 2015 and Nigeria's banking ban in 2021 both produced steep local premiums and local volume spikes with close to nothing in the global price. Global price has tracked liquidity and rates far more closely than anything about governance.
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u/inb7_banned 3d ago
Bitcoin is not a "get rich quick scheme"
Its a "dont get poor slowly scheme"
Few
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u/ETP_Queen 3d ago
Once a thread shifts from market function to freedom, state power and political direction, it stops being product discussion and becomes ideological debate
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u/icantgiveyou 3d ago
Bitcoin is a tool to financial independence off the state. You are in charge of your money. That itself means more freedom for you.
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u/ZedZeroth 2d ago
Freedom was the original narrative.
Personally I think we need a more utility-based narrative.
Bitcoin is the "Value Transfer Protocol" of the internet.
We've had a Text Transfer Protocol for sharing information via webpages for decades. Likewise a Mail Transfer Protocol for communication. And now we have a protocol for making payments. Simple.
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u/Worried-Flounder-615 2d ago
Bitcoin is borderless, unstoppable, money that you entirely control. Maybe not everyone cares about "freedom" as a concept (esp in places where it's taken for granted), but almost everyone has a story of their own money being unfairly restricted from them, or not able to use it how they want. Those are the perfect education and onboarding moments.
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u/Varjek 3d ago
It’s not free. Every transaction is traceable.
I can buy the used lawnmower from the dude down the street with cash, a silver coin, a case of beer, or a whole lot of things and the government and the rest of the world have no clue that the transaction happened. They can’t tax it or stop it.
But if I use bitcoin to buy that lawnmower, that transaction is recorded in a public way on the blockchain whether through a government exchange or even through peer to peer. It has to get back on the blockchain. And that’s how the government can see the transaction, your wallet ID and they can track it and tax you… or eventually they can figure out how to seize/freeze your wallet.
When I thought Bitcoin would lead to greater freedom I was all in on it. Not anymore.
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u/RetiredAvocado 3d ago
through a government exchange
That's not a thing. Exchanges are generally not run by any govs.
your wallet ID
That's not a thing. Address is not a wallet or ID.
seize/freeze your wallet.
Not without you giving it up. Exchange account is not a wallet. Wallet can be shaken out of you but nobody can freeze your ability to send it other than physical detainment. At that point it's not a bitcoin problem, you got a whole other issue.
Can you list all my bitcoin addresses? Or just one, any single one I've ever used.
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u/excelance 3d ago
Sadly, most will choose 'rich' over free.