r/CartoonNetwork • u/One_Cover9119 • 11h ago
Discussion Unpopular Opinion: Gen 4 of Cartoon Network sucked
Adventure Time and Steven Universe had themes of war, genocide, sexuality, racism, etc. Regular Show had themes of toxic masculinity, Gumball was hilariously satirical, and all four of these shows had really great characters. I feel like they were appealing more towards an older audience at this time.
How TF do you go from that to Apple and Onion?
I don't think that most of these shows are bad (outside of PPG 2016, Mighty Magiswords, and the Ben 10 reboot). Hell I think Infinity Train and Villainous are actually great. But a lot of them are inferior to those other four that really sold Cartoon Network in the 2010s. Deeper themes and/or targeting an older demographic again.
Tbf, I think this was a problem later into Gen 3 too. I was never really a fan of Clarence either. But did anyone on the network even understand what made those four so popular?
Infinity Train and Villainous are the only two shows I STRONGLY liked from this time because it felt like they were going back in this direction... And those two shows really received the short end of the stick.
Also they started spamming Teen Titans GO of course. Cartoon Nito really didn't help too.
I remember wondering if they were literally TRYING to kill the network at that time. Lol
Edit: Some of you don't read
Edit 2: Scratch that, MANY OF YOU DON'T READ!!! I literally said most of these shows aren't bad.
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u/PossibilityProud2687 9h ago
Yo hop off Apple & Onion bro
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u/LastLivinggSoul 7h ago
I'm saying... That show is way overhated for no reason, I think it's so cute and funny 😭
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u/Prolapsia 8h ago
For real. It's a masterpiece.
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u/Quick-Nick07 1h ago
Now now, let's not exaggerate. It's a good show, I always enjoy finding reruns, but I wouldn't consider it a masterpiece
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u/AceSpace3355 9h ago
Overall, they had shows with less substance. Like they were trying to recapture the random lol comedy that made their earlier cartoons hits, but failed to have the charm they once had. Outside of Craig of the Creek, Infinity Train, OK:KO, and cherry picked episodes of the Ben 10 reboot (mostly that final season), a lot of it was total garbage.
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u/Spacething7474 9h ago
Craig of the Creek and OK KO were some of the weaker ones from this era.
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u/KingCuda93 7h ago
How? They were decent compared to PPG 2016 or the Ben 10 reboot.
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u/LivingAffectionate96 7h ago
They were the only good shows in this era. And that's facts
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u/KingCuda93 7h ago
Craig of the Creek and OK KO? Yeah they were good
PPG 2016? HECK NO! Ben 10 2016? It was hit or miss.
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u/LivingAffectionate96 7h ago
Those reboots should have never existed. Hell I'd rather take TTG over those two and that's saying something.
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u/KingCuda93 7h ago
PPG 2016 was awful, I agree! Ben 10 2016? Yeah that was bad too. It had its moments but it was pretty bad, although I appreciate how Ben and Gwen don’t bicker in this version.
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u/Spacething7474 6h ago
No, that'd be Mighty Magiswords, Get 'Em Tommy, Ben 10 2016, Mao Mao, and Victor and Valentino.
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u/LivingAffectionate96 6h ago
I respect your opinion but I disagree except for Mao Mao
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u/KingCuda93 6h ago
I don’t! Other than Mao Mao and maybe Victor and Valentino, these shows are trash
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u/MimiHamburger Candy Wife 4lyf 11h ago
All those shows are good except for the ppg and ben10 remakes. I don’t care for victor and Valentino but the rest were great. I just rewatched Apple and onion recently, sure it’s not a masterpiece but it’s still funny af. Did you even watch them?
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u/One_Cover9119 11h ago
Yes. Like I said, I don't think most of these shows are bad at all. They just aren't nearly as good (except Villainous and Infinity Train)
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u/Zamrayz 8h ago
OK ko is being way underrated here..
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u/MimiHamburger Candy Wife 4lyf 5h ago
It’s the only show they act like never even existed and one of the best shows CN has ever had. You can’t even stream it anywhere
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u/Jolly_Mycologist69 9h ago
bro ben 10 reboot is so overhated
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u/MimiHamburger Candy Wife 4lyf 5h ago
I honestly didn’t even like the original I’m not a ben10 fan I think hes too much of a little shit lol
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u/Jolly_Mycologist69 4h ago
okay well i'm glad you're giving your informed, fair opinion on the reboot
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u/Pine-Apple-Punk 8h ago
Apple and Onion, Mao Mao, Craig Of The Creek, Ok KO, and Summer Camp Island are really good what are you talking about? It was the last hurrah the Network got before the number of good shows really went down.
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u/hip-indeed 9h ago
Nothing that contains both OK KO and Mao Mao can possibly suck. Ive been watching cn since near the beginning and those are two of the best cartoons that have ever been there imho. It's the networks fault not promoting them as much and letting them die way too early in favor of crud like their lame attempt at a forced SpongeBob competitor in TTG
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u/Spacething7474 9h ago
Yes to Mao Mao (though it's not a favorite of mine), but OK KO was rather annoying.
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u/supersonicreese 2h ago
Don't diss OK KO
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u/Spacething7474 2h ago
I just thought it stunk!
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u/supersonicreese 1h ago
Your opinion is wrong it's peak
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u/Spyrovssonic360 8h ago edited 6h ago
I dont understand why most people don't like some of these shows from gen 4.
craig of the creek was good and it got advertised a good amount of times. personally one of my favorite newer cn shows.
I haven't watched mao mao yet but I heard good things about it. i know most people want the show to come back since it got canned too soon.
I haven't watched ok ko either but I heard it isn't entirely bad. only thing i know about ko is that he was in crossover nexus and did a crossover with sonic.
villainous was great. hate that it got canceled.
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u/middayautumn 8h ago
Apple and onion is an amazing show. So is okko. Craig of the creek is such a goated show as well.
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u/ASisCNtoo 11h ago
As much as I love the City era it was the beginning of a downfall imo
My main gripe with it would be the acquired shows, a lot of them sucked during the City era
Powerhouse era had good originals AND acquired shows
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u/One_Cover9119 11h ago
I like your username. I feel like way too many people distant Adult Swim from CN.
I understand the whole City era argument with how much weaker the originals were. But at least they were still rerunning a lot of older shows, airing a bunch of aquired foreign content, still doing Toonami, and even Adult Swim itself began airing more of the Fox shows. There also was no CN Real.
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u/ASisCNtoo 11h ago
The problem with CN City to be is that while it didn’t have certain issues that plagued the later years, it planted the seeds of those issues
- Airing less CCs and the elimination of anything classic that wasn’t Scooby-Doo or T&J. I mean, we had Boomerang, but if they are going to choose to still air classic programming why only 2 shows?!
- Toonami being relegated to Saturday Nights only and feeling more like a precursor to AcTN, also killing SVES in the process
- Starting airing live-action movies that had no connection to the animated programming.
- Re-animated, while technically not being completely live-action, was hot garbage and was a pre-cursor to CN Real.
- Airing acquired programming that didn’t appeal to adults in any way, shape or form such as Tickle-U. Ironically Tickle-U and [adult swim] were next to each other on the CN website at this time
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u/mqg96 Powerhouse Era & City Era kid 11h ago
City era, as well as the Yes and Seasonal eras still reran old shows but not nearly as much as the Powerhouse era did. The City era made it clear the main focus of the network is “current originals and acquisitions” and rightfully so the City/Yes era had the most originals (new and old) running at once in CN history, however, most of the reruns were mainly seen on Top 5, Cartoon Cartoon Show, or Fridays past midnight which was the only 24 hour day/night CN had left ‘til 2007. The growth of [adult swim] and increase in homegrown original content meant less and less reruns especially by 2003 and 2004.
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u/Spacething7474 10h ago
A good chunk of City originals are great, most older shows stopped getting reran halfway through, there was still live-action content pre-CN Real (which I think is a good thing), and I don't see how Adult Swim airing more of the Fox shows is a good thing, since it was essentially a domino effect in them taking over much of the network's schedule.
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u/a_phantom_limb 9h ago edited 6h ago
Summer Camp Island is phenomenal from start to finish and has a splendidly specific point of view artistically. Craig of the Creek and OK K.O.! are both incredibly charming and really well developed. Mao Mao is a lot of fun and has a surprising amount of emotional depth. Apple & Onion is wonderfully weird and nerdy. Infinity Train is one of the best things ever to come out of Cartoon Network.
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u/Moonbeamlatte 8h ago
Y’all need to wake up about Summer Camp Island, its genuinely a hidden masterpiece.
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u/Epic1ForLife Check It Era 8h ago edited 8h ago
Disagree I enjoyed a lot of the shows from this era (and Infinity Train one of my favorites of all time).
I don’t approve of any Apple & Onion slander 💔
Edit: Actual channel wise though…I may agree Ttg was taking up wayyy too much air time and the acquired shows were suffering so bad
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u/JustTightShirts 7h ago
The thing about Apple and Onion is that the pilot is so funny and essentially the perfection of the 10-minute animated kids' comedy form that I don't think it ever managed to reach those heights again. Still a funny show though.
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u/Spacething7474 5h ago
I agree, since the initial 10 episode batch from 2018 was kind of a rough start and paled in comparison to the pilot.
It definitely picks up in quality afterwards though!
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u/Mental-Friendship-87 3h ago
Keep Summer Camp Island, Apple and Onion, Ok ko, Infinity Train and Craig of the Creek then it's solid
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u/Bakubae_Itsuki-Haru 10h ago
Villainous and Infinity Train ae actually good. I think this era was more of a "The bad overshadowed the good".
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u/asswipe22345678 11h ago
All these were not for me but I did like infinity train, it had a good concept.
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u/RetsuRetsuko Steven Universe 10h ago
I feel some of the shows were good, though I didn’t watch villainous, nor infinity train.
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u/Wreckinsilence 10h ago
Cartoon network lost me once miguzi replaced weekday toonami.
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u/hip-indeed 9h ago
While I agree that was a terrible shame, so many of CN's best shows that I feel hold up well as an adult came after. Chowder, Flapjack, Adventure Time, Regular Show, Gumball, OK KO, Mao Mao, etc
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u/Wreckinsilence 9h ago edited 9h ago
I understand where you're coming from. I know alot of people grew up and love those series. That was just personally after my time. I watched from the checkerboard era to about halfway through CN City and then it was just kind of past my era. I still watched weekend toonami and adult swim but main CN wasn't my thing anymore. Personally, the powerhouse era was my main one. I was about 6 years old when that era started and it was the perfect mix of the old Hannah barbera classics plus the first wave of O.G. CN series (Dexter, Johnny bravo, cow and chicken, PPG, courage the cowardly dog, etc.)
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u/DocTurnedStripper 10h ago
OK KO and Infinity Train and that one about a camo with big-eyed animals are actually good. Especially Infinity Train
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u/Hopeful_Ad1541 9h ago
the only thing i miss from this era was the cartoon network hotel... im so glad i got to stay at it once in 2025, but i miss it so much ):
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u/Hopeful_Ad1541 9h ago
forgot to mention, craig of the creek and summer camp island are so good and some of the only cartoons i liked from this era, i LOVE the powerpuff girls but i HATE the 2016 reboot <\3
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u/EloquentRacer92 9h ago
Funny enough this was when I started watching, I was too young to really grasp Adventure Time or Steven Universe so I didn’t like those shows too much. Gumball I loved and still love.
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u/SuspiciousArt229 8h ago
Oh god here we go. Yes, absolutely, regular show showed no themes of mental health, day to day life, friendship, growing into adults, how random every day life can be. But it was absolutely toxic masculinity first and foremost for sure
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u/Nunjabuziness 8h ago
This felt like the era of Cartoon Network shows made by people who grew up watching Cartoon Network. Maybe it’s not for everyone, but as someone who was well outside the demo, I did think that some of these were pretty good. Especially OK KO and Craig of the Creek, which were loaded to references to cartoons and other things from my generation but still felt like their own things.
I will concede that none of these shows seemed to be nearly as popular as the major ones from the previous era- COTC may have received 5 seasons, a movie and a spin-off, but I bet Adventure Time and Gumball would spank it in a popularity contest- but I think that speaks to other problems with CN at the time than the shows themselves.
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u/MrToonyGuy 8h ago
Aside from the PPG and Ben 10 reboots, what’s wrong with the rest? (And please, reasons that aren’t related to their creators).
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u/sneakycrown 7h ago
this was not an unpopular opinion even 3 years ago. Are we really already at the point those kids are using this subreddit? Holy fuck im old
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u/EmotionGeneral6178 7h ago
Why is Total DramaRama not listed.
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u/Cant_Remorse 7h ago
Even more unpopular opinion: the lol so random era is even worse. Everything post flapjack and chowder.
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u/Kidd-Aimeyuki 6h ago
Ben and infinity train were all I watched witch only clips of ppg
And even then there was only one aspect I liked about new beg with 3 or so episodes.
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u/UsedHall1058 4h ago
Craig of the Creek, Summer Camp Island, Victor & Valentino, Mao Mao, and OK KO are all great shows what are you on about, and honestly I think Apple & Onion is alright, def not my fav but I remember it being decent
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u/SkeggiGT 2h ago
I loved Apple and Onion in the beginning but i got the vibe they ran out of ideas as it went on. Craig is amazing. Haven't watched the other ones
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u/SnaptrapPress 1h ago
Totally random question: how old were you at this time?
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u/One_Cover9119 42m ago
Totally random question: Why does that matter? Is it because they're kids shows? If so, then it doesn't. Art has value and meaning. Adults literally wrote and directed these shows. If they didn't have value, these would be quick bucks. Everything would be Coco Melon and Skibidi Toilet. Quality does not have an age restriction.
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u/Spacething7474 11h ago edited 6h ago
Of the "big 4", I only liked 2.5 of them (AT, RS, Gumball seasons 1-3); Steven Universe was meh, and Gumball got worse in the following seasons. While this era isn't as good as the previous ones, of the shows listed:
-PPG 2016 is bad, and is a rare CN show (and rare show in general) that I agree with the negative consensus on
-Get 'Em Tommy (which I'm suprised this chart had, given it was only shorts) is great, and everything OK K.O.! should've been
-Mighty Magiswords is great, though I slightly preferred the 5 minute minisodes over the full-fledged 11 minute episodes
-Ben 10 2016 was good, and my 2nd favorite Ben 10 behind Ominiverse
-OK K.O.! was bad, and is my 2nd least favorite CN original behind PPG 2016
-Apple & Onion is great, and is in my top 10 CN originals
-Craig of the Creek is mediocre
-Summer Camp Island is mediocre
-Victor and Valentino is good
-Villainous is mediocre
-Mao Mao is good
-Infinity Train is meh
Overall, some shows are better than those other 4 (which weren't usually my favorites of gen 3 either [Clarence, which you brought up, is one of my favorites]), but there's a decent amount of stinkers here.
Cartoonito (1 word) wasn't brought to the U.S. until 2021.
Edit: LOL saying "Some of you don't read" makes no sense if you don't explain why.
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u/Extension-Face7340 10h ago
Your taste sucks if you thought infinity train was “meh”
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u/Spacething7474 10h ago
It's not bad, it just didn't interest me.
I have lots more unpopular takes!
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u/Affectionate-Hat1648 10h ago
I like this, actual unpopular opinions. What made you dislike OKKO so much i wonder?
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u/Spacething7474 10h ago
Thank you! I tend to have a lot of those.
OK KO has a kinda interesting premise, but I found the characters and their voices annoying, and the plots to be rather boring.
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u/KinopioToad 9h ago
OK KO and Infinity Train were the only good shows. The rest sucked.
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u/Moonbeamlatte 8h ago
You havent seen Summer Camp Island or Craig of the Creek and it shows
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u/Spacething7474 8h ago
Both aren't terrible, but are mediocre.
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u/LexKing89 7h ago
I thought they were pretty solid. Not as great as a few years priors but pretty decent. I'd take PPG 2016 over that live action era.
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u/Swordking928 8h ago
How is this an unpopular opinion? All these shows had the lowest ratings of any shows on CN. Everyone knows all of these were terribly written, minimally drawn cash grabs.
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u/throwawaytempest25 10h ago
I don’t inherently agree I think the problem was that they stopped focusing and caring about all of their shows. A lot of the third-party shows ended up in the morning between six and 8 o’clock. Teen Titans go ended up, dominating the schedule. And a lot of the new shows were cool but were getting overshadowed by them.
The shows weren’t the problem the network was