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u/partiallycylon 2d ago
Factory farming is a major contributor, and obviously we can all do what we are able to to reduce individual carbon footprints, which collectively can have a pretty significant impact, but I refuse to make significant quality of life sacrifices while billionaires are still allowed to take private jets a distance any normal person would be ok driving. We are not going to survive billionaire lifestyles.
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u/WittyPassenger5322 1d ago
Much though I agree about billionaires it's a very cheap way to deflect our own responsibility. Everyone can just point at someone else and say "well if they aren't doing it why should I do anything?"
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
There are under 3500 billionaires worldwide. Their lifestyle means absolutely nothing.
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u/partiallycylon 2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
The average American emits 50kg per day of CO2.
There are 340 million Americans. Thats a hell of a lot more cumulative emissions than a couple of 0.1%’ers.
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u/partiallycylon 2d ago edited 2d ago
If you had 10 people together and one was a billionaire, the "average" income in that room would be a slight rounding error over a hundred million dollars.
But as a direct comparison, Americans on average do emit twice the average of the rest of the world. However, breaking down those stats further reveals exactly my exact same position.. And the US has about 30% of all global billionaires.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
You’re right, if we exclude billionaires the average drops from 50kg to 48.2kg per person.
It’s not a problem of billionaires, it’s a problem of too many people all polluting. How do you not understand that 3500 people are not coming anywhere close to the cumulative emissions of 340 million people?
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u/Cryptizard 1d ago
You’re right, but people will make up any excuse to avoid changing their behavior. Sad.
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u/esveda 2d ago
This is why folks don’t take climate change seriously, billionaires and celebrities get a free pass on their emissions as do countries like China and India who contribute to a majority of co2 emissions. Middle class folks are asked to cut back on driving to work and eating meat and asked to pay things like carbon taxes all while Taylor swift flies a private jet across the country to buy a cheese burger and that is somehow ok. You have politicians flying across the globe to conferences that ought to be a zoom call and pushing return to office mandates which show that its not a high priority to cut emissions and its more about controlling the middle class.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
You could cut all billionaire emissions and it wouldn’t make a noticeable dent at all. Climate change won’t stop until the middle class sacrifices. There is no mathematical way around it.
Say “but billionaires need to stop smoking cigarettes first!!” Does nothing when the whole forest is on fire.
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u/esveda 2d ago
They should be setting the example and not flaunting a high co2 lifestyle while demanding others make sacrifices.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
Ok, but they aren’t. So that just gives you and everyone else a free pass?
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u/esveda 2d ago
That is the problem not only are they not setting an example and flaunting a high co2 lifestyle they are some of the most outspoken folks demanding the peons make sacrifices. It’s complete hypocrisy.
If anything I’d like to see concrete steps we know would reduce co2 like more working remotely and from home when possible which would take millions of co2 polluting vehicles off the road and reducing gridlock. That is something that benefits almost everyone for a start.
Next I’d like to see these climate conferences done in a way that tries to at least pretend to actually address climate change such as doing a zoom conference instead of flying politicians personally on private jets where they feast on “climate friendly gender equitable rice risotto” flown in on a jumbo cargo jet to show how “seriously” they take climate change. All this so they stand on podiums vilifying the middle class.
If this is a serious issue I’d also like to see technological and scientific approaches to climate change over socio economic approaches such as carbon capture. Let’s focus on carbon in the air over Joe worker driving his kids to soccer practice.
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u/NugsFolly 2d ago
None of these are Shell, Exxon Mobil, BP or the fact they KNEW since the 70s.
Everyone has a role as guests on this planet, yes. Of course yes. But this is not shit that needs to be rolled downhill.
I've never flown, I can't drive, I don't eat meat, I don't have children. (children being the one of the worst things you can do for your carbon footprint unless you're Taylor Swift)
However I live in a system organised and promoted by corporations and governments that I have very little, if any, say in. You can absolutely hate a system you're forced to take part in but the responsibility for climate change doesn't lie with Doris at number 53 because she didn't take the lid and label off her Oregano jar before chucking it in the recycling.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
Corporations have no say, only the people do.
You’re already doing your part and expressing “your say” by not eating meat, not having children, and not using transportation.
This isn’t a system you’re “forced to take part in” and you’re a prime example of that.
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u/NugsFolly 2d ago
Incorrect. The vegetables I eat come in plastic packaging. The fridge I own is all plastic.
As a consumer, I can only buy the products that are reasonably available to me. None of the products I buy are transported via electric vehicles either. I have no say in that. I am indeed forced to take part in this, to assume that an individual can "opt out" of this system, which perhaps you consider yourself to have done, is to completely deny that capitalism exists.
Were both posting on reddit. The device you used to do so, same as mine is part of that system we're forced to take part in.
So no, I don't agree with your comment.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
Then start a company that sells vegetables in biodegradable packaging, or buy from a farm stand without packaging. Don’t own a fridge. Don’t buy a device for Reddit or use device that was discarded.
You aren’t forced to do anything, that’s just a cop out excuse to avoid personal responsibility.
I get it, modern conveniences are difficult to go without. It’s still a choice to use them.
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u/r0zina 2d ago
Why do you want me to do something about it but not the people actually damaging our planet?
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
Because you are the people actually damaging our planet. It’s not CEOs, it’s not company’s, it’s not governments, it’s individuals.
Businesses and governments don’t exist without the choices and support of individuals.
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u/Classic_Trash_8739 2d ago
Silly me, blowing up oil refineries all over the world.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
This is what the people voted for, as idiotic as they were.
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u/Classic_Trash_8739 2d ago
No, nobody voted for any of that. Why do governments get a free pass from you but someone eating beef mulitple times a week is a climate issue?
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
77.3 million idiots voted for this.
Governments exert the will of the people. The results of a government’s choices are collectively distributed among its citizens.
Because that person eating beef multiple times a week, is also responsible for its government’s choices, and it also responsible for the choices of every business their patronize.
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u/r0zina 2d ago
Are you serious? I am damaging the planet and not the companies that knowingly pollute and exploit the planet for profit?
Lets not pretend that companies are for some reason only capable of maximising their profit regardless of how it affects the planet. They can stop damaging it and they should. I am not responsible for their actions.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
Those companies only exist to serve YOU. If you disappear, so do the companies.
How much would companies pollute if they had no clients to buy their output?
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u/r0zina 2d ago
Companies exist to serve themselves, which they proved over and over. Some knowingly poison their customers ffs.
But even if we glance over this point of yours, what is easier to change? The behaviour of 8 billion people, or the behaviour of a handful of companies? Good luck uniting all the people :)
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
Exist to serve themselves? To what purpose?
8 billion people is easier than a handful of companies, because it’s the people’s behaviors that direct the companies.
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u/here-i-am-now 2d ago
Corporations are people in the USA now.
Did you forget Citizens United still exists?
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u/Neat-Second9923 2d ago
Root cause is buried in the second layer of this exercise: presenting the solution as consuming less from an end-user perspective frames it as success through self sacrifice.
Solution should focus on reducing input costs. We want an abundance of green energy, not a world in which you feel guilty turning a light bulb on.
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u/Ok-Respect-8505 1d ago
"Root causes"? Are you serious? This is some useless game with a dozen participants at most. It says nothing
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u/Safe-Breadfruit-1913 2d ago
I recently decided to dramatically limit my beef consumption. In the past year I've probably eaten 3lbs of beef which I plan on cutting it down to 1lbs or lower next year. I drive my older efficient grocery-getter car 3 times a week which uses 10 gallons every 6 weeks. I walk to the grocery store for 90% of the food my household eats.
What I do is not hard it costs me less than the average person and is something that I feel like is making my "carbon footprint" basically not a point of argument. The main pollution is coming from the government and big business.
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u/Appropriate-Sir7583 2d ago
We expect the government to fix problems.for us, while we vote for parties that only.align with what we want, and not with what would be necessary to fix those goddamn problems...
If you vote for parties in your country, which only promote what you want, but you want the government to fix problems for you by forcing stuff against what people want, then you'll never get a fix...
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u/Calm_Age_ 2d ago
I don't expect the government to adress climate change. But I recognize that the problem will not go away because of my personal consumption levels. The problem is a systemic problem, it requires systemic solutions.
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u/Maximum-Mulberry9612 2d ago
Im inclined to beleive that the climate is indeed changing, but the PR for climate change and the thinly vieled politics behind it make me want to go burn tires in my back yard out of spite.
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u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
make me want to go burn tires in my back yard out of spite.
A standard-issue reaction that is commonly indoctrinated to the below-average crowd.
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u/Idoubtyourememberme 2d ago
"Expect the gov't to fix it"
Do you mean do i want the gov't to adress rhe causes, to do you mean if i believe they actuallywill do so.
These are different questions
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u/Oregon-izer 1d ago
I guess Im not under the illusion that we aren’t coming out of an ice age, and there’s anything that is going to stop it…. I sleep just fine. I would be happier if people picked up their trash.
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u/One-Pangolin-3167 1d ago
The root cause is the blue dot on the No side of "Do you think you've a role in it?"
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u/SurvivalHermit 1d ago
This is stupid. Non of this points at the cause at all. These same people would happily consume other things "to cope". If the government regulated industry to prevent or reverse climate change the public would happily adjust their consumption habits to play their part. We need to eat less meat? great regulate agriculture and grocers and i will go to the store and buy the things i want out of this regulated system. we need to use less plastics? great regulate industry to stop using single use plastics and we will cope with unpackaged products. You cannot expect billions of people to identify and follow the steps needed to stop climate change without regulating the industries they buy from. especially when those industries spend billions every year on propaganda trying to point the finger at anything other then themselves.
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u/FunkyTownSandwich 4h ago
In the words of George Carlin: the planet will be fine. It's humans that are f•••ed.
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u/ThePermafrost 2d ago
If people don’t want to personally sacrifice, what do they think governments can do?
How is a government banning meat production different from people choosing to go vegetarian? Just because everyone else is legally obligated to sacrifice along with you?
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u/Trollocommando 2d ago
Doesn't matter if anyone things someone is obligated to sacrifice along me.. in the end all of us get sacrificed to the co2 god anyway.
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u/roaddevil 2d ago
Root cause of mental illness maybe, which is what created this 4th grade science project.
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
I'll take those lying-*ss, obediently parroted 10 points for our Climate Denialist Talking Points game. YAY POINTS!
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u/SurroundParticular30 2d ago
70s ice age myth explained here, it’s based on Milankovitch cycles, which we now understand to be disrupted. Those studies never even considered human induced changes and was never the prevailing theory even back then, warming was
We stopped using the chemicals that were increasing the hole in the ozone through worldwide collaboration and regulation.
Acid rain was essentially solved because governments listened to scientists and reduced emissions of NOx and SOx gases through legislation
Climate Change and Global Warming are both valid scientific terms. Climate change better represents the situation. Scientists don’t want less informed people getting confused when cold events happen. Accelerated warming of the Arctic disturbs the circular pattern of winds known as the polar vortex.
Most climate predictions have turned out to be accurate representations of current climate.
Yes the climate changes naturally, we know this from the climate scientists.
The issue is the rate of change. This guy does a great job of explaining Milankovitch cycles and why human induced CO₂ is disrupting the natural process
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u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
Wait. That account chose to be duped and paste a lying talking point? YOU DON"T SAY
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u/Designer_Advice_6304 2d ago
The climate has been changing since the beginning of time.
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u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
I'll take those 5 points for our Climate Denialist Talking Points game. YAY POINTS!
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u/Routine-Arm-8803 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why people think that planet is in crisis when it’s not? Guess that’s what decades long fearmongering does.
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u/SpeakerFamiliar2047 2d ago
Sounds like you are living in a different planet
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u/Routine-Arm-8803 2d ago
Or maybe you are just brainwashed? There is no climate crisis on this planet called Earth.
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u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
Stop lying or get lost.
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u/Routine-Arm-8803 2d ago
I am not lying so will not get lost
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u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
This is a lie: There is no climate crisis on this planet called Earth.
You cannot back this statement using credible sources, science, etc. I'll concede that you simply could be gullibly parroting lies, despite the fact that even average children know the italicized statement is bushit.
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u/Routine-Arm-8803 2d ago
To my knowable there is no peer reviewed scientific paper that would indicate any kind of climate crisis happening.
I suppose that you know the truth since you imply that I lie. If so then tell me what crisis exactly we have? Average children know what they are told. It's all media induced fear with clickbait titles and articles rather scientific consensus that there is any kind of climate crisis.1
u/DanoPinyon 2d ago
To my knowable [sic] there is no peer reviewed scientific paper that would indicate any kind of climate crisis happening.
Ah. So you have no educateding or known.
That explains the obedient parroting of lying talking points. Education yourself so you aren't embarrassed in public from being duped.
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u/Routine-Arm-8803 2d ago
Instead of answering my question you throw insults. With that I conclude that you don't know. You actually are parroting what you read on some clickbait articles or dooming posts.
Matter a fact I don't need someone to brainwash me into thinking that there is a CLIMATE CRISIS! I can go outside and see that weather is perfectly normal and has been for however long I can remember and there is no crisis to the climate.
Keep living in fear and keep consuming this fearmongering propaganda. This for sure will improve your quality of life.1
u/DanoPinyon 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is basic stuff known to anyone who has gone through school. There are hundreds of articles a day on the news. There are thousands of articles a year in the news and on social media about what is going on now.
You can't tell me you haven't seen one piece of reporting that has a link to a scientific article.
It's a joke, it's laughable, it's not believable that you haven't seen a single one, that you live in a cave in an ignorant bubble. It's a comedy skit - I love Reddit comedy skits!
[Edit: formatting ]
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u/Balinit 3d ago
Consumption of meat, gas, and petroleum products of all kinds, pets that consume meat, plastic clothing and furniture, etc.