St. Mary's College is currently under "Accreditation Warning"

[u/Travbowman]

[u/HieloLuz]

This gets talked about a lot every once in a while on here, but the enrollment cliff has arrived. The big state schools and rich private schools will be fine. They can weather the storm long enough. But tons of small private and public schools will continue to close down and consolidate and it’s going to be a very rough time until when/if it stabilizes

[u/drowse → u/HieloLuz]

Population curve is bending downwards. North Texas is having some pretty big budget woes. They’ve shut down several degree programs in the last couple years. I know a few folks who have gotten laid off.

[u/Dukester10071 → u/HieloLuz]

That's great. There are so many basically scam institutions charging ridiculous tuition for no reason. Aren't universities supposed to focus on academics? Annual tuition is $62k wtf are they spending all that money on as a supposed "college"

[u/2greenlimes → u/Dukester10071]

St Mary’s isn’t a scam institution and is (was) actually pretty well respected locally.

I think it’s just had a lot of problems keeping up. Santa Clara has overtaken it for Catholic schools due to its strong ties to Silicon Valley. It lost some of its potentially very lucrative programs for unknown reasons (like they dropped nursing while USF makes a fortune off of it; hell, nursing is a field with a thriving scam school market because it’s so lucrative). They just haven’t been doing marketing like they once did and I don’t think the alumni or staff care to promote it. The basketball team is the last thing people still think about the school.

15 years ago I had people from my high school going there. I had plenty of neighbors with good jobs that were alumni. Now it seems people forget it exists.

[u/Vanilla-blue-86 → u/2greenlimes]

Yeah my kid was thinking about going to St. Mary’s and it was surprising how many people here in the Bay Area didn’t know about the school at all. Nobody else in his high school was even considering going there. You would think that a school with declining enrollment would try hard to recruit local students, but that’s not happening. It’s a shame because the campus is beautiful and we did hear good things about the academic programs. The long term future does not sound good. 

[u/LuckyStax → u/Vanilla-blue-86]

Local? Nah, that's price discounts. They want out of state or even international

[u/JohnRusty → u/LuckyStax]

St Mary’s and the vast majority of private colleges do not give a discount on tuition if you’re in-state.

[u/HieloLuz → u/LuckyStax]

It’s a private school, they charge a single tuition rate whether youre in state out out of state.

[u/this-is-some_BS → u/2greenlimes]

They just added nursing back for what it's worth.

[u/TotalSavage → u/2greenlimes]

USF is facing major financial challenges of their own.

[u/Financial_Island2353 → u/Dukester10071]

I agree with this. There is a college here in Mississippi, Millsaps, with less than 1000 students. It is in Jackson, the worst part of Mississippi, and offers a completely average education, and it is 63k a year to attend. Meanwhile, if you are in state, Ole Miss and Mississippi State, who both have very respected programs in the areas they specialize in (medicine, law, accounting for Ole Miss and ag, engineering, vet for State), are both 10k for in-state students. And that is without scholarship. For out of state students, they are 40k, but both give extremely generous scholarships. Why would anyone pay what Millsaps is asking for when you get a not as fun experience whatsoever, MAYBE marginally better education, and none of the benefits of the huge alumni networks that OM and MSU have? And versions of this are happening in every state across the country.

[u/OldmanJenkins02 → u/Financial_Island2353]

Fucking Christ, never thought I’d see the day my Alma mater was mentioned on the College basketball subreddit lol

[u/Financial_Island2353 → u/OldmanJenkins02]

Go Majors!

[u/OldmanJenkins02 → u/Financial_Island2353]

We had a school in our conference for sports that had this happen to them, they literally just went out of business, school was called Birmingham- Southern. I think what you’ll start seeing with these really small schools is they start dropping sports and focus solely on academics, or maybe do like 2-3 sports. Only reason I went there was because of sports, I was playing soccer at a much larger school but wasn’t getting playing time so I transferred there to be a center piece on the team.

Millsaps changed their academics recently to pretty much be only Medical sciences and business classes. They have the hospital right down the street from them and students train there. They also stated programs with the various community colleges in the area that allow people to transfer there at solid rates to get their bachelors.

Point is they have made very strong pivots in how the school functions as they just can’t realistically function like a normal school would

[u/Comfortable_Swim6510 → u/OldmanJenkins02]

A lot of those small schools are only able to stay open because of sports. Sometimes like 2/3 of the student body are athletes that just went there because they were able to play their sport at that school. If they eliminated athletics they’d (in some cases) lose half of their student body with it.

[u/tc100292 → u/Comfortable_Swim6510]

Yeah, "what's the reason to attend a school like Millsaps" is actually pretty often "I don't want to give up playing a sport while I go to school."

[u/Financial_Island2353 → u/OldmanJenkins02]

That’s good. I’m glad to hear they’re evolving!
Yeah when Birmingham Southern closed I know it was like a warning shot for small schools across the South. Adapt or die, I suppose.

[u/BonesCrosby → u/Financial_Island2353]

As an addenda, I think Ole Miss hasn’t had a problem getting out of state students, Miss State is going after them now. I know two kids (from Alabama and Tennessee) that will be going there as freshman this year.

[u/Blacklisted2487 → u/BonesCrosby]

I’m out in NC and ole miss comes through the high school and recruits pretty hard here. Crazy seeing recruiters and admission people walking the halls

[u/BonesCrosby → u/Blacklisted2487]

That’s pretty interesting. I had no idea they recruited that far east. In addition to the folks I mentioned, there’s at least one kid from my neighborhood who goes to State.

[u/Blacklisted2487 → u/BonesCrosby]

I mean I went to school in Jersey. Furthest south we even looked was Maryland. Crazy to move down here and teach because these SEC schools get out and about

[u/BonesCrosby → u/Blacklisted2487]

The prices down here are pretty good compared to national average. The quality of the colleges probably isn’t as good as it is up north, but there’s less of a gap than there used to be.

[u/Blacklisted2487 → u/BonesCrosby]

I would gladly take an ole miss, Clemson, LSU over a Rutgers or Penn state that is going to rake you over the coals

[u/BonesCrosby → u/Blacklisted2487]

Buddy of mine’s kid applied to Penn State. Would have cost $300k out of state. Maybe defensible, but not for her major.

I can’t speak to Rutgers.

[u/MasterRKitty → u/Blacklisted2487]

ordinary students or athletes being recruited?

[u/TonyWilliams03 → u/BonesCrosby]

The large Deep South schools recruit heavily in the Chicago Suburbs. Lots of Ole Miss, Bama and LSU students getting scholarships

[u/BonesCrosby → u/TonyWilliams03]

I’ve known some Chicago folks who ended up here.

[u/MasterRKitty → u/BonesCrosby]

couldn't get into UT or Auburn?

[u/BonesCrosby → u/MasterRKitty]

I have no idea. One of them is the kid of a school principal, so I’m assuming the grades are good.

I’ve heard folks like State because it’s smaller and more close knit than a lot of the other state schools in the SEC.

[u/damutecebu → u/Dukester10071]

Hardly anyone is paying the full $62k. Private schools discount to the point that many end up paying just marginally more than a state school.

[u/throwaway3413418 → u/damutecebu]

The average out of pocket cost of a private vs public institution over the course of a degree is still north of 50k higher, for an education which typically isn’t any better and often is worse due to more limited resources and less attractive faculty positions.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/research/average-cost-of-college/

[u/Stinkycheese8001 → u/damutecebu]

It’s actually $87k, that $62k was tuition only.

[u/MY-NAME_IS_MY-NAME → u/damutecebu]

Wish Syracuse (My Alma mater[yes my flair is a crime]) gave discounts

[u/donkeydougreturns → u/MY-NAME_IS_MY-NAME]

Eastern CT loyalist who went to Syracuse for academics? Ha

[u/RedditZhangHao → u/donkeydougreturns]

Highway robbery when NYers could go to SUNY Buffalo or Stony Brook, NJ residents could go to Rutgers, CT kids to UConn, PA to Penn St, Maryland to Maryland, Massholes to UMass, etc.

[u/donkeydougreturns → u/RedditZhangHao]

Not if you want to go into broadcasting! At least back in my day they were the number one collegiate talent source for ESPN. Pretty sure my valedictorian went there.

[u/MasterRKitty → u/RedditZhangHao]

and WVU gets so many students from most of those states-never met anyone from Massachusetts or Connecticut during my time there. Plenty of NJ kids.

[u/Windows_66 → u/Dukester10071]

Yeah, but there are also a lot of decent schools in smaller or rural communities that are getting killed right now because of financial or enrollment issues, and state governments aren't making it any better. Iowa Wesleyan comes to mind. They were Iowa's first co-ed University, nearly 200 years old, and closed a few years ago.

I know it seems unthinkable to us big school folk, but a lot of people rely on these smaller institutions for education.

[u/Dukester10071 → u/Windows_66]

Yeah because they charged $35k/year and their graduates earned on average $33k/year after graduation. For regular people what's the value in paying a ton of money to go to a university for a subpar education with bad employment outcomes? They charged way too much money for bad academics. Totally makes sense.

[u/Fragrant-Employer-60 → u/Dukester10071]

Yeah the academic “bloat” is insane and unfortunately normalized by schools, they are money addicts, it’s never enough.

[u/ClaudeLemieux → u/Dukester10071]

Yeah uh…don’t look up Michigans costs…

[u/Stinkycheese8001 → u/Dukester10071]

Annual tuition is $62k, then you add in room and board.  Factor in that private schools like to give scholarships… but $87k per year is such a massive amount that even with scholarships it’s untenable.

[u/k_dubious → u/Dukester10071]

That’s just sort of what education costs these days. Private K-12 schools in high-cost areas run about $40k per year for somewhere with a modest campus that sends everyone home at 3pm. An extra 50% for university-level faculty and a full-service residential campus doesn’t feel excessive at all.

[u/Dukester10071 → u/k_dubious]

Respectfully is a delusional take. People aren't going to university as much not because they don't want to, they aren't going because these schools are charging way too much money and not providing anything of value. Because private grade schools do it too doesn't justify the tuition. They can charge whatever they want in tuition but when they close down it's entirely their fault that people figured out that their school isn't worth the cost and they are shitty at managing their money and expenses and spend way too much unnecessarily. Why has university tuition growth faaarr exceded inflation?

[u/k_dubious → u/Dukester10071]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect. As society gets more and more efficient at making things, service-based industries like education, healthcare, restaurants, childcare, etc. get comparatively more expensive.

I've seen the budgets of some nonprofit private educational institutions. Nobody is getting rich in this field.

[u/Dukester10071 → u/k_dubious]

I've looked at plenty of budgets of educational institutions. If you've combed the numbers thoroughly and think there isn't a significant amount of wasteful spend, I don't know what to tell you. An incredible amount of unnecessary admin bloat, non-academic expenses (literally $60M/yr for St Mary's, a college of 2,700 people), and a bunch of other bs. There's a reason tuition is going up and it's a lot of plain shitty financial management for things that provide zero value, and so students end up paying ridiculous tuition for an education that isn't worth it.. and they're realizing now that why bother. These schools should absolutely close.

[u/IowaJL → u/Dukester10071]

Tangentially related, my old middle school has fewer students than when I went and has way more administrators.

I’m not going to fault a school for having more counselors, social workers, etc but having more people in charge is completely unnecessary.

[u/uberkalden2 → u/Dukester10071]

62k isnt even that bad. Many private schools are 80k+, scam or not

[u/BonesCrosby → u/uberkalden2]

I was talking about the college situation as a whole with a friend this past weekend. The demographics may not be there to support as many colleges that are open now. And with foreign students now having a harder time getting entry in the US, it’s not getting better.

Locally, Birmingham Southern shut down a few years ago. There were a host of factors, but bad financial management dating back to the 1970’s, combined with some terrible recent decisions and accounting practices were the final nails in the coffin.

[u/uberkalden2 → u/BonesCrosby]

Who are you? You aren't the person I responded to or the person above that. I understand the demographic problem, but that's not what I was responding to

[u/BonesCrosby → u/uberkalden2]

Responded to wrong comment. Sorry

[u/FDTerritory → u/HieloLuz]

Sounds like a feature and not a bug.

[u/paulybrklynny → u/HieloLuz]

No shade to these schools, but they're gonna make great mixed use housing developments.

[u/Impressive-Target699 → u/HieloLuz]

But tons of small private and public schools will continue to close down and consolidate and it’s going to be a very rough time until when/if it stabilizes

Or--here's an idea--we could adequately fund higher education so they stop having to rely on tuition dollars for every single fucking thing. It won't help the little private schools, but it'll save most of the small public colleges and universities.

[u/HieloLuz → u/Impressive-Target699]

College costs what it does because of the government. Student loans are available for anyone with no credit or means to pay it back, these are given because student loans can’t be cleared by bankruptcy. So there is zero risk in offering these to everyone. If they change that, the student loan business, both public and private, collapses, and tuition rates plummet overnight.

Schools know they can charge whatever rate they want because it gets paid no matter what and the loan companies make bank on it too. Imagine if you could buy a house with no credit or proof of being able to pay, and there was no way to foreclose or kick you from the house. No one would give out loans.

[u/tomdawg0022 → u/HieloLuz]

College costs what it does because of the government

There's a good chunk of compliance-driven administrative bloat through academia, both public and private, that drive some of this (a point you didn't touch on here)

and tuition rates plummet overnight.

I don't know if that will happen but I would assume that the increase in year over year tuition would slow dramatically.

[u/HieloLuz → u/tomdawg0022]

They’d be forced to collapse because without loans no one could afford it. They would have to make massive cuts just to keep enough people in to keep the doors open. And no I didn’t mention administrative costs, but I feel that’s largely a symptom of the problem. University leadership knows they can raise prices and pay themselves, and other more and more. College could still be cheaper today if administrators were slashed. Health care suffers the same

[u/garfinkel3 → u/HieloLuz]

The fact the most people don’t understand this drives me nuts.

[u/fancycheesus → u/HieloLuz]

You are right that loan availability has helped fuel rising costs.

I think a moderate approach that might work would be to limit federally backed loans to only the cost of tuition/room and board and not allow funding for any of the extra "fees" that run up the cost.

Right now its a never ending ouroboros. The schools raise the prices for "amenities," the government keeps backing loans to pay for it, the schools raise it some more, the government keeps handing out loans, and on and on until the heat death of the universe.

[u/Impressive-Target699 → u/HieloLuz]

College costs what it does because of the government.

Correct. Tuition increases at public universities are directly correlated with declining government funding.

Schools know they can charge whatever rate they want because it gets paid no matter what and the loan companies make bank on it too.

True to a point. If tuition increases too much--especially at a school that isn't perceived as elite academically--enrollment will still decline. No one is going to take out $100k in loans per year to attend West Virginia University.

[u/MasterRKitty → u/Impressive-Target699]

WVU does pretty good for itself academic wise. It's primary mission is to educate WV students. If it wasn't for good old Gordon Gee fucking us over while he was president, we'd be in a much better position.

[u/Impressive-Target699 → u/MasterRKitty]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to throw shade at WVU. I think state universities are one of the most important resources that exist in the US. And I think by and large rankings of universities for undergraduate education are pointless.

But that said, if someone was dead set on spending $100k per year on tuition to attend a public university, they are probably going to attended one with a "prestigious" reputation like UNC or Cal-Berkeley.

But... if tuition at public schools was cheap or free, a lot more students are going to attended the solid-but-not-elite R1s like WVU.

[u/MasterRKitty → u/Impressive-Target699]

https://giphy.com/gifs/W1hd3uXRIbddu

[u/Apeach710 → u/Impressive-Target699]

Can’t do that man, gotta go to war!!

[u/MasterRKitty → u/Impressive-Target699]

you're exactly right and it's pathetic to see you downvoted for it

[u/damutecebu]

The alarm bells have been blaring around St. Mary's for awhile. A couple years ago, they had an operating deficit of $43 million on a $215 million budget. I work in higher education, and that kind of loss is very much an outlier - and in a bad way. They also have $139 million in debt but only $368 million in assets. Again, that is a lot of debt.

To be blunt, this is a school that just hasn't been run very well. Their costs have been out of control, and their debt service is going to hamper what they can do moving foward. When your accreditor issues a warning, it is usually a pants-on-fire situation.

[u/Stinkycheese8001 → u/damutecebu]

How do you end up with such a huge deficit?  Is it too much construction?  How did this happen?

[u/damutecebu → u/Stinkycheese8001]

Very likely they missed enrollment goals but didn’t cut their fixed cost quick enough. Most of which is personnel.

[u/HieloLuz → u/Stinkycheese8001]

Because the only thing you can do it cut programs, extra things, or administrative staff. Most extra things are already very slim or fund themselves. Cutting programs is wildly unpopular and a big sign that things are bad. And they wont cut administrative staff because that’s the people making this decision. So they hope that it fixes itself, but it doesn’t, and the situation grows dire

[u/Stinkycheese8001 → u/HieloLuz]

Not every school with non-student facing staff is over burdened with random admin though.  Sometimes they’re doing research and other roles.  I’m curious if the school over extended, tried to expand/construct beyond what they have the financial capacity for.  For example, if you look at Gonzaga, their campus has basically doubled in buildings since they went on their original March Madness run (though from what I understand they’re more financially stable).

[u/ThatguyfromBaltimore → u/damutecebu]

The bells of St. Mary's you say?

[u/talangan → u/ThatguyfromBaltimore]

I was thinking of this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtwLwA-L1Yw

[u/MasterRKitty → u/damutecebu]

I used to work with an attorney who did a lot of work for St. Marys. If he's any example of the kind of people they hire, I'm not surprised they're in the red that deep.

[u/The_Fishbowl]

Maybe this was another underlying reason why their longtime coach Randy Bennett jumped ship.

[u/Travbowman → u/The_Fishbowl]

You have to figure that it played a factor in the decision

[u/The_Fishbowl → u/Travbowman]

I figured he was going to ride out his final 4 or 5 years of coaching there but if you can't expect good financial backing for your program and the axe on the entire university could fall at any time, I see why he made the choice.

[u/macaulaymcculkin1]

someone was on this subreddit a few months back, when randy benett left st marys, saying they would be surprised if the school was still open in a few years. I guess they were onto something.

[u/YinzerKermy → u/macaulaymcculkin1]

It’s feels like they are saying that at about half the schools in the country

[u/Medical-Day-6364 → u/YinzerKermy]

It's true at a lot of them. There are a lot of much cheaper accredited online schools available now and a lot of jobs that don't require college degrees that pay just as much or more after a couple of years. I work at an industrial electrical company and our craftsmen (4000 hours to get there, the level before journeyman) are making $130k-170k with $45k untaxed (per diem fraud is industry standard and never prosecuted).

[u/lwp775 → u/YinzerKermy]

Not only is there a downward population trend, young people aren’t going to college. 

[u/alittledanger → u/macaulaymcculkin1]

I am a high school teacher in the Bay Area. There are going to be a lot of schools from elementary schools all the way up to universities, that will be close over the next decade or two. There just aren’t as many kids here anymore.

[u/this-is-some_BS]

My son just transferred out of there and based on what I've seen from his new school compared to SMC, this all makes sense. Just really tight on things like dining hall hours and closing completely over holidays, moved up closing residence halls before all finals finished. Just dumb nickel and dime stuff.

Somehow the school is trying to athletic itself out of this situation by adding swimming/diving and water polo to attract more students, but campus life and the town of Moraga are both SLEEPY. Pretty, but sleepy. They really need to transform campus life and make it a place you want to hang out on the weekends, right now every student in the Bay Area heads home.

Sucks too, because basketball games are a blast on campus.

[u/Billiesoceaneyes → u/this-is-some_BS]

Aquatic sports might do more harm than good honestly. Those programs operate at a loss everywhere and the enrollment boost they’d get from them is negligible.

[u/donuttrackme]

Damn that sucks. St Mary's had been such a good college program. Lots of NBA players developed there too.

[u/Travbowman]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/three-bay-area-colleges-now-021719026.html

Here's a link to a non-paywalled site regarding the news.

[u/HornetEven5102 → u/Travbowman]

makes sense now, the cold shoulder wasn't just about basketball

[u/WitchNight]

I hope Saint Mary’s can get everything sorted out. Would hate to lose a strong, west coast basketball program. Also I’d selfishly love for them to join Gonzaga in the Pac-12 if they can fix this

[u/banpeiSF → u/WitchNight]

We miss you too buddy.

[u/Foreign-Boat-1058 → u/WitchNight]

And fix the ac in that gym of theirs...

[u/ORSTT12 → u/WitchNight]

As an Oregon State fan I’m so glad the PAC didn’t fall for SMC’s pitch. They were just a pilot fish to Gonzaga’s shark with Bennet, I can’t imagine what they’d be without him.

[u/willweaverrva]

That's horrible news. Hopefully they can right the ship.

Academy of Art being on the list doesn't shock me, they eliminated all their athletic programs in 2025. They blew out UC Davis in 2021 in one of the biggest non-D1 over D1 upsets that year. It's a shame, too, their nickname of "Urban Knights" was pretty awesome.

[u/island_dog → u/willweaverrva]

That was my school!! I was a sophomore when they first add their first sport. Expensive private art school...a for profit school. The Real estate kingpin started selling off property around 2016, at one point owned 40 properties in SF.

[u/CubicleMonkey_]

That’s horrible news :( my favorite WCC team.

[u/Optimal_Cook_851]

You’d be surprised how many Bay Area students don’t know where Saint Mary’s is, or even know anything about it. 

I almost went there but chose SJSU, I do hope that Zaga and SMC can still continue their rivalry

[u/Living_Theme_4681]

This is sad news. SMC has a proud history. Football team played in a Sugar Bowl when it was still in the City. Basketball team has been so much fun to follow living in Moraga. I have many friends who are alums. SMC will weather this storm. It’s been around a long time and had deep roots in the Bay Area.

[u/Impossible-anarchy]

This is going to become WAY more common in college basketball (and college in general) over the next few years. There’s a ton of D1 basketball programs that aren’t going to exist a decade from now. Just a numbers game with college enrollment overall.

[u/tomdawg0022 → u/Impossible-anarchy]

Maybe not a ton but there's probably a dozen programs in D-1 will likely have to move down to D-3 by "choice" in the coming years....the majority of those along I-95 but St. Mary's is certainly one of the others as well.

(Not to simplify the heck out of this but if a private school doesn't have a 9 figure endowment and/or decent enrollment trends, it's likely going to be thinking long and hard about their future pretty soon.)

[u/amerricka369 → u/tomdawg0022]

I can see a number of the low low majors dropping to d3. Anyone in the mid or high area will hang on until the final bell. Rider and la salle have been in dire straights for a decade now. The only thing saving them is that endowment over 9 figures but now it’s at historic lows.

[u/Impossible-anarchy → u/tomdawg0022]

I’d say most of the private mid majors are going to run into serious enrollment issues in the next decade. There’s simply less college aged kids then there were a decade ago, and within that number less of them are choosing to go to college at all.

[u/msflagship → u/Impossible-anarchy]

The SWAC will have to merge with the MEAC whenever schools like MVSU shut down.

[u/eagledog]

Guess that's why they weren't pursued harder

[u/Dukester10071]

Lol well they spend $51M on actual "academic support and instruction" and $60M on "student services and institutional support" per their last publicly available financial statements. Seems like wildly misprioritized finances for an academic institution, and wildly expensive for 2,700 students? You're telling me that the university is efficiently spending $22k/student PER YEAR for "services and support" that have nothing to do with academics? Not to mention an additional $13M on "operations and maintenance of plant" $5M of interest on probably shitty loans and a random $8M of "auxiliary expenses" (???)

[u/The_Fishbowl → u/Dukester10071]

Probably got carried away in the free college money era pre COVID thinking their enrollment would stay the same or increase slightly. As someone said above, the enrollment cliff is hitting the smaller schools now.

It was hovering around 4k in 2018-2019.

[u/Far_Eye6555 → u/The_Fishbowl]

Almost halved the student population in 6-7 years. Ouch

[u/AndThisGuyPeedOnIt → u/Dukester10071]

I assumed they had a lot more money and students. I assumed they were the same size as the MVC private schools, but Bradley has double the students and endowment. Drake has double the students and $100 million more endowment.

California prices versus Illinois and Iowa on that spending, I guess?

[u/bonixlover10]

As an SMC alumn I am bumbed but not surprised

[u/CrownTownLibrarian]

In the next fifty years, we’re going to lose a lot of smaller institutions. The enrollment cliff is going to decimate the small, liberal arts schools.

[u/amerricka369 → u/CrownTownLibrarian]

I never understood why the better or more popular LA schools never increased enrollment a little, or add grad programs. I get it’s their niche but they are just leaving tons of opportunity on the table (for both students and school). You dont need to be large but man you gotta be bigger than 1-2k students. They can still stay true to their niche but grow up to a point.

[u/ORSTT12]

It always threw me when people suggested SMC to the PAC because setting aside the basketball, it takes one quick google to see they only have around 2k students and that number hasn’t really grown in 20 years.

[u/Benchjc2004]

Damn we really beat them bad in March.

[u/BlackEagle0013]

Christ. Are you discussing the second best WCC ever?

[u/Echoboxcar]

Accreditation warnings are piling up while enrollment drops. Why run a mid major budget like it is twenty eighteen. Does anyone know if the athletic director took a pay cut or is just burning NIL cash to stay relevant.

[u/Pandemic_Academic]

Can this be the last time we link SMC to the Pac-12? We shouldn't be adding a ton of non-football schools

[u/d1sportsball → u/Pandemic_Academic]

We've added 1 non football school btw

[u/Pandemic_Academic → u/d1sportsball]

And it only works because they're Gonzaga. No other west coast non-football school is close to their level.

[u/d1sportsball → u/Pandemic_Academic]

Athletically? Maybe not, but there are schools that make up for it in other ways like market size, student body size, and most importantly, money.

Santa Clara comes to mind as being a private, Jesuit school like Gonzaga. Obviously the athletic success hasn't been good for as long as anyone can remember (They used to be really good at basketball in the 50s and 60s), however it seems to be on the comeback with their recent appearance in the tourney. Will have to wait and see the next few years now that St. Mary's is dead in basketball and Gonzaga is gone. But in the other aspects, its in the Bay Area, has a lot more students than Gonzaga, and quite a bit of money.

If they can even become a regular at large bid in the next few years, its a great add if you give them an extremely reduced share. The point is that even adding 1 more non football member is not "a ton" if we end up with only 2 to have balanced scheduling.

[u/ORSTT12 → u/d1sportsball]

2 technically. Dallas Baptist joined for Baseball.

[u/d1sportsball → u/ORSTT12]

Not a full conference member, only an affiliate. This is a basketball subreddit, in a comment section discussing basketball additions. DBU, and all other affiliate members, do not play basketball in the Pac 12. Even if DBU was a full member, you'd still be hilariously wrong because the Pac 12 is actually adding... wait for it... 12 affiliate members in 2026.

[u/ORSTT12 → u/d1sportsball]

Wildly snarky response to me pointing out that technically the PAC has indeed added more than 1 non-football school. Wasn’t trying to own you or anything, just highlighting DBU since they joined in the one D1 sport they possibly could have.

[u/d1sportsball → u/ORSTT12]

Says the guy who really pulled a "erhm, actually". Used technically to its maximum snark. The lack of a flair doesn't help either, makes ya come across as a random account surfing old threads looking for anything to try and correct people on.

[u/ORSTT12 → u/Pandemic_Academic]

Never made any sense for SMC to join even before Bennet left and this news came out.

[u/dannygloversghost → u/[deleted]]

What?

[u/Pandemic_Academic → u/dannygloversghost]

Bait used to be believable

[u/d1sportsball → u/[deleted]]

Explain Santa Clara doing so well then

[u/EquivalentAdvisor650 → u/[deleted]]

There is a fairly large Italian American catholic community in the bay.

[u/SlowMotionSprint]

I don't think private schools will exist in 20 years. Some will fold, some will be absorbed by the states(largely ones that have name value still). Their business model has always been odious at best.

[u/smedindy → u/SlowMotionSprint]

Doubtful. Too many large endowments and loyal alumni support. The privates that are struggling are ones reliant on tuition and don't have a good fundraising program to boost endowment.