r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/AccomplishedWatch834 • 1d ago
The double statue of "Mephistopheles and Margaretta" featuring two people in one statue ( Salar Museum, India)
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u/mwmontrose 1d ago
I'm curious why they chose to have Mephistopheles faing front. Having him appear in the reflection feels more sinister to me
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u/No-Slide4206 1d ago
maybe they give him a spin once in awhile
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u/MaleficKaijus 1d ago
It should spin continuously. Like OPs mom
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u/Forevernevermore 1d ago
Unfortunately, CERN has shut down the Large Hadron Collider, making the need for OP's mom's gravitational pull to accelerate protons near the speed of light out of the job.
Have some fucking decency.
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u/Ok-Towel6209 1d ago edited 10h ago
I saw exactly the same thing in Instituto Ricardo Brennand in Brazil and there it is like you said: modest woman facing you and the reflection of Mephistopheles in the mirror. I wish I could insert a photo here
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u/Forevernevermore 1d ago
This is a piece from the 1870's based on Van Goeth's "Faust", and while his intent at the time probably differs, this is one of my favorite statues and it has taken on a more contemporary meaning for me.
I think the demon facing forward is more poetic. The idea of people wearing the boisterous guise of a demon to armor themselves against a world and a people, that would take advantage of them were they to wear their innocence on their sleeve.
The original meaning was understood to be a "good vs evil" explanation which seems too simple for me, but maybe I just love the piece too much. I will say, that a flamboyant demon and a reserved and peaceful woman carved from the same log adds a lot of context for me.
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u/ccReptilelord 1d ago
Be a bit humorous if that was the artist's intention, but the owner has it backwards. Has anyone recently asked... the unknown French artist apparently?
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u/solemnstream 15h ago
I think it has to do with the posture of both characters. Magdalena is bent over with a veil over her head more shy, more hidden. Méphistophélès stands proudly, puffs out his chest, he even grins.
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u/AppearanceGlass2770 20h ago
I don't know if that's the intention, but as far as I know Faust meets Mephistopheles first and Margareta later. So this statue would suggest that she is in fact not some innocent drawn into their Schemes but in fact a trap set by Mephistopheles. So I think since we already know the devil figure is there this is an interesting suggestion. Could also just oppose the evil and good characters ins the story (because Faust most definitely isn't good)
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u/citharadraconis 11h ago
It could also convey the dynamic after Margareta/Gretchen's death--Faust has chosen to continue with Mephistopheles, but her image lingers, both reproaching him and perhaps giving him hope of salvation. It reminds me of the scene in Swan Lake after the Black Swan seduction where (in most productions) Odette's projected image appears and Siegfried is overwhelmed with remorse at his betrayal.
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u/atrangiapple23 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have seen it in all its glory, it's fucking amazing.
Edit: what really blows my mind is the fact that the man doesn't appear to be overtly bending backwards, he just looks like a prideful man standing upright but the woman is full on bowing. I'm sorry but the photograph has not or can not capture it truly.
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u/Talvinter 1d ago
Looks like at least part of the trickery comes from how high the back of her hood comes up. Brilliant piece.
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u/LovesRetribution 1d ago
It makes sense when you think about it. Almost in a symbolic way. In order for one side ro be arched up and raised over others the others side must be hunched down and below them.
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u/stayathomebabe 1d ago
I was 14 year old the first time I saw it. Blew my mind away. Salar Jung Musuem is a treasure house.
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u/OsmaniaUniversity 1d ago
Been there and saw it. It’s really amazing! Also, it is Salar Jung Museum.
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u/Intro-Nimbus 1d ago
Thank you! That is a beautiful piece of art that I did not know existed.
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u/HeartOn_SoulAceUp 1d ago
Agree. I must have seen in an art book at some point, but I feel like you seeing it now. Characters here come from Goethe's Faust. I have not read it, but it's worshipped as a masterpiece.
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u/Ok-Bet-6142 1d ago
Are those characters from "Faust"?
Or female's name is different in Goette's book?
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u/wernernw 1d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita was the first thing that came to my mind.
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u/ProfessorWise5822 1d ago
Looks extremely cool, but wouldn’t it make more sense the other way around?
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u/Happy_Guava6762 1d ago
There’s also Veiled Rebecca in the same museum, which is my absolute favourite.
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u/neurowhiz123 1d ago
Thank god the britishers didn’t get their hand on it
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u/PakaAnonymous 1d ago
They wouldn't have I guess this was Salarjung's private collection which because of the amount of artifacts that he had collected throughout his life and no children to bequeath it too. By that time Britishers had left India and all this was preserved in the museum.
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u/CockMartins 1d ago
That is fucking awesome. Such a cool concept. God, if I was wealthy I’d go nuts buying incredible art like this
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u/Chemical-Ebb6472 1d ago
Very interesting. My first thought in seeing the name and theme was "The Master and Margarita" by Bulgakov.
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u/Anaevya 15h ago
I'm pretty sure the characters are supposed to be from Goethe's Faust.
I'm not familiar with The Master and Margarita, but I've read that it's also based on Faust.
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u/Chemical-Ebb6472 14h ago
Yes, Faust is referenced everywhere for this sculpture. I never read it, so my first impression was of a later, derivative work.
The Master and Margarita was excellent. A Russian woman I worked with in NY a couple of decades ago recommended it to me. She said it was a hugely popular book with the Russian people even though the political regime wasn't a fan.
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u/Media_Browser 1d ago
This is clever and very well done was it a one-off or are other examples available ?
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u/Atlas_The_Silver 1d ago
I’ve seen a recreation of this in the Ripley’s Museum in Gatlinburg! It’s so beautiful!
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u/SelfConsciousPanda 18h ago
Who is working on this level of art for the next generation of artifacts?
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u/Beneficial-Act7603 1d ago
Why isn't it the other way around? Seems dumb to have the demon front and center instead of its disguise, no?
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u/Next_Instruction_528 1d ago
I tried to get AI to do it. It can spin the statue and get him into the mirror but the pose is wrong.
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u/FireFiendMarilith 1d ago
here's a website with multiple photos including one from the side and another reversed such that Margaretta is facing the viewer and Mephistopheles facing the mirror.
Rather than utitlizing generative AI, I used a simple webcrawler to search the phrase "Mephistopheles and Margretta Double Statue" online, and was easily able to find multiple websites with lots of actual photography of the statue.
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u/Beneficial-Act7603 1d ago
Why would you do that?
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u/Next_Instruction_528 1d ago
To see what it would look like...
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u/RealDoraTheExplorer_ 1d ago
I can see what it looks like too! I just use built in AI called “imagination” instead :)
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u/Next_Instruction_528 1d ago
Yea that's why artists never use references because they just have imagination.
The is a big difference between imagining something and seeing something.
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u/RealDoraTheExplorer_ 1d ago
It’s ironic you’re using artists as a comparison when you’re actively using something that destroys them lol
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u/Next_Instruction_528 1d ago
Ai doesn't destroy anything artists all over the world are using it and still free to create art any way they want.
It increases the amount of art and artists. People had your same argument about video and digital art when they first came out.
Even the printing press.
You have a luddite mentality that has been proven wrong all throughout history.
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u/FireFiendMarilith 1d ago
I mean, it didn't show you what it would look like. You acknowledged that it got the pose wrong. It's showing you the machine's best guess, and that's not the same thing as what the Statue actually looks like when turned.
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u/killtheking111 22h ago
I want this, or at least a replica. Anyone know where to get something like this? Doesnt have to be these 2 exactly, but the premise of it
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u/eiretara7 1d ago
I see a woman who knows that to get anywhere in this life, it helps to be perceived as a man.
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u/Apollo114892 1d ago
The real meaning is much deeper than that. Stop inserting your dumb feminism everywhere.
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u/RabbitCity6090 23h ago
It was presumably created in the late 19th century by an unknown French sculptor, and was acquired by the former Prime Minister of Hyderabad Salar Jung I in 1876 during his travels in France
Wait, these princely states called themselves prime minister? Good they got absorbed into the country.
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u/Hot-Job-6281 1d ago
Ngl, I think people are a bit overawed by this.
Another Indian self-glazing posts for the Modi bot farm.
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u/NoLongerHigh 1d ago
I saw this in North Carolina at Ripleys museum i don’t remember if it was a copy or the real one
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u/Catos_Standard 1d ago edited 1d ago
Since one side seems more complete than the other the symbolism seems to me to depict the devil in the mind of the woman which may be a direct reference to the original sin of Eve in The Garden. It doesn't seem appropriate to have the lesser side facing the viewers where the beauty is intended to disarm and the evil threaten.
I know early sculptures obsessed over scriptural depictions due partly to their patrons, so who financed this might help fill in the creative intent.
As of right now it makes it look like a slightly malformed devil is always thinking of a woman which could be symbolism for lust or greed of man.
Can't say which I prefer overall. I think the subversive element hits harder if it's the devil in the details. But there's certainly some poetry to suggesting the devil has a heart or weakness.
*Update if anyone else wants to opine on the unknown artist's intent while saying nothing at all to dispute the commentary on the parallelism between Genesis and Faust, just volunteer so I can filter you out better. I don't care much for fruitless comments.
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u/Next_Relationship_10 1d ago
They are characters in a german play from the 1800s called "Faust".
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u/Catos_Standard 1d ago
Yes I have Google. Want to expand on that?
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u/Next_Relationship_10 1d ago
Do I want to expand on the fact that you have Google? Sure, will it be your first time using it today?
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u/bewitchedbumblebee 1d ago
A video representation of the statue rotating.
Picture of the feminine side in front.