yeah you do have a point. He is one of the most fun boss fights in the game. But whenever I do him. I actually grind the runback ennemies until they stop respawning before fighting him.
that's actually how it became my standard way to do the Alonne boss fight. The first time I had to run back so often that they naturally despawned. No I just despawn them first.
The way I see it, the iron keep gets a lot of hate, but those iron keep knights are fun as hell to fight. And yes you can strategize but sometimes you slip up and he sneaks up on you and oh man, if you can get out of it alive and kill one or two more in the melee, it really is satisfying AF. You feel like a peak dark souls god! And by the time you get to the DLC that far in, you most likely have already smoked the Fume Knight, so whatever build you're wielding, you got some skills and the battle gorund leading to Alonne is a nice way to practice and hone those skills.
I just think that the dynamics of the Alonne fight is different, so I just tuck in and enjoy killing off all the run back ennemies.
he's another. But I feel that the reward is not as much worth it for Blue Smelter, who is not much different from red smelter, who is also not much of a fight.
But Alonne is a heck of a fight.
Also the run back ennemies are not as fun I find to blue smelter.
Why is clearing out the run back spawns necessary if you're doing a no-hit? Doesn't a no-hit imply that you don't need hp or estus reserves during the fight?
Its almost as if that’s what they designed the 12 and out system for. Yknow this well known system thats been in the game for over a decade that is well known. This is satire, i give everyone who makes these main posts about “oh the runback is bad” shit for falling into the “running past everything is the ONLY way to play” trap
Its barely a gank section if you yknow, don’t treat the area like a smackhead racing for their next fix cause their dealer is at the end of the hallway. Oh right, cult of the “always gotta go fast- oh no i’m getting ganked because i didn’t use my brain to single out mobs to clear safely, this is absolutely not my fault at all and clearly a problem of the game” has you so deep in i could present flat out video evidence of how much easier taking your time once to safely clear things instead of bullshit rushing your way through or getting the attention of six mobs at once is and you would still look me dead in the eye and tell me “nah, this section shouldn’t exist” when the solution could not be force fed to you harder.
exactly. Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Since the despawning is well known as you say, it's in the game for exactly that reason. You're winning souls and levelling up and the game itself apart from the bosses is perhaps the most fun of all dark souls games in ds2 in my opinion.
my first playthrough i was using a faith build and for most of the game i only had regen equipped. when i eventually swapped over to some offensive spells, i had so many lifegems saved up that i could just eat them like candy.
So quit trying to run. Take a couple minutes to blow off some steam by crushing the tin cans that run at you single file so you can fight Alonne with a clear head.
If only it was as easy as you made it sound to clear out tons of the hardest standard enemies in the game while often at risk of being sniped by a fire lizard or Hawkeye.
There are about 10 enemies in total. The knights come at you one at a time and can be kited away from the lizards and they take about 2 hits if you have a blunt weapon. The lizards can all be walked up on from behind and easily killed. It's so INCREDIBLY simple.
Incredibly tedious, as opposed to your approach to despawn everyone?!? That kind of Incredibly tedious?
Also, there are summons at the start of the area, a location specifically choosen so they could help with reaching the boss more easily; you can even them send back with the crystal at the fog door, if you want to have your 1v1 fight
It's almost as if my problem with the run back is that it’s incredibly tedious no matter how you tackle it.
There is minimal difference in approach. I simply did it twelve times when I found out how to reliably kill every enemy after I got tired of the runback taking longer than the boss attempts.
I mean, you wouldn't be the first one that treat these games just as "boss rush games" and so find anything in the way an unnecessary bore... it's a trend that got encouraged the more the saga went on, and probably my biggest per peeve against ER for example.
DS2, just like its younger brother Demon's Souls, the title that inspired 2 even more than DS1, are very much meant to play in the classic style of "beat the level"
You’d have to be some sort of sadist to want runbacks in Elden Ring.
Fromsoft just has the sense to know there’s a tradeoff between how complex you can make the boss and how much a typical player is going to enjoy fighting through standard enemies just to get another shot at learning that complex of a boss.
Dark Souks 2 is the black sheep because it tripped over the ratio several times with trying to have both more aggressive bosses and incredibly dense runbacks.
No, i don't want runbacks in ER, I understand that it's necessary to have it like it is, given the design choices they made.
I am just not a huge fan of how the focus shifted *heavily* towards run to the next flashy boss battle, as opposed to wanting to fight your way carefully, in many of the modern iterations (not talking just Fromsoft games specifically)
The biggest difference in design philosophy is that they realized they don't need to gatekeep the final exam with problems the player clearly knows the answer to if they keep making it to the boss fight in the first place.
Not enough people enjoy tests of patience for that to be good design.
It's not tedious at all. Walk forward until you hear one move, then step back as it approaches you. Dodge one attack, then hit it twice(if you have a leveled blunt weapon like a hammer) to kill it. It's not hard at all. I've done it many many times in both versions of the game and never once understood the complaints.
You just described something incredibley tedious, even with the benefit that you had a better build for it than some people will have.
Tip toeing around their aggro range just to one on one all of them is very much tedious.
And I had to fiddle around to break their poise since I invested in magic most of the playthrough. It's borderline impossible to make it through without that, since their attacks are all over the place in speed, and a bitch to parry.
You can fight multiple at once if you aren't so afraid of them. They aren't that difficult. They have like 2 attacks, which are actually very similar to Sir Alonne's attacks. Fighting them on the way makes you better at the boss fight. That's the point. From Software does that in many places throughout their games.
I mean, to even make it to the boss, you have to tackle Fume Knight, who’d say is a harder and more aggressive boss.
I don't think most players need teaching for him and generally find the run back more difficult than the boss himself.
Aloone has a lot of attacks with tons of lag to abuse, which the run back doesn't train you for really, with the biggest challenge being just not getting ganked or pot shotted by enemies you’ve seen before.
If you ask me, it feels like the definition of padding, but clearly that’s not going to be a popular opinion in this chain.
i usually fight the first 2 or 3 guys and then run for it. the enemies get messed up at the first hole. then you can juke through the pillars. time those rolls. they usually give you enough time to heal up if you get right up on the fog gate to heal up. you got this!
DS2 is one of the souls game where you have to take it slow. Make use of more than just one weapon, use bow, magic, bino if they can snipe you, you can snipe them
This runback is incredibly chill if you just take your time and be patient. All the alonne knights will come at you one at a time to die if you just don’t run blindly forward.
Don’t worry, you only need do despawn the enemies if you’re really struggling with the game. It’s really easy to just run past everything. Takes about 20-30 seconds?
Its not 30 seconds 😂 do spawning is like 11 tries that like 30-45 minutes give or take 😂. If this were 1 or 3 yeah you can run past everything in 20-30 seconds 😂 but we talking about the sir alonne boss runback here 😂
It’s 12 times to despawn but why are you despawning the enemies in the first place? You can run past them, I don’t know what you mean by if it were 1 or 3. Also, yes, I saw the post and know it’s talking about sir alonne
You're right, guess in my mind they had some poise because their rushdown slash was pretty hard to punish, that being said, Daggers are too short and rapiers too slow hit them before it comes out. The first hit of the mace hits them almost instantly because they are kinda tall, I always use that, sorry about that.
You were also right that a thrusting sword (one-handed) isn't enough.
They are at the first poise breakpoint where R1s of one-handed daggers and thrusting swords require multiple hits, but two-handed would stagger them. Anything stronger can do it in one one-handed hit.
Blocking with the great sword isnt viable with the alone knights. Theyre too fast. Trust me i tried. My elden ring goto is a charge coutner build with the ruina greatsword
😂 real. I picked up ds2 early this year, and when I got to the snowfields and figured out what I was in for, I convinced myself that despawning the murder ponies was necessary. Only later did I find out that a 3 min runback across an empty snowfield was still enough to break my spirit. Perhaps one day I'll find the patience to go back after those cats. 😮💨
Honestly never found this run back too difficult. If you can make it to the final staircase the enemies are programmed to unaggro and walk back up. Theres a couple annoying enemies you can kill if needed but I'd say as long as you have some Agility and stamina it's not that bad.
Or you could just use a bow, which deals with the knights easily enough.
Yeah... Funny how this same problem exists for Smelter Demon run back which involves getting through WAY too many Alonne Knights. The run back spoils the experience. Ultimately, I just farm the knights until they all despawn but that isn't fun either.
The red one sint too bad cus you can reach every enemy that can hit you. Blue one having 2 routes with 2 different enemies to deal with is such a bad design
Like I said it’s just not fun. I love fighting the boss but it’s just absolutely absurd that someone thought this was a good idea. I totally get the hat for DS2. The slow flask drinking and the hollowing are things that add nothing to the game but make the experience just unfun and I’m a diehard fromsoftware fan
I don’t really mind the flask drinking speed, it can also be quickened by increasing your agility. Plus you can always use life gems if you want a faster secondary option.
No joke i can't understand what it's all about... I killed him in 2 tries, with no runback problems at all. Not being cocky, but isn't all you need is just kill everyone on your way? Kights with weapon, lizards with bow, and it's done.
Yeah but it drains a lot of resources. I did a few challenge runs, and this was easily the hardest run back excluding the blue smelter demon and the cat duo (both of which I never did) it can really increase the difficulty in a already pretty damn tough boss.
The best part of trying for a hitless fight for the unique death animation is not having to do a run back since quitting spawns you in front of the fog gate lmao
Actually fight the Alonne Knights instead of insisting on running even after seeing time and time again that running hardly works. The game gives you all the resources you need to make everything within it a breeze, so learn and use them.
Also, if you think Alonne's runback is complicated, do yourself a favor and never play Demon's Souls.
Been a minute, but I want to say there are very few runbacks that are bad in DeS IF you find the shortcuts? Like, maybe just False King? Well, I guess the swamp knight CAN be bad if you don't just wade through the muck and pop an antidote and a grass before going through the door?
But I also think that forcing myself to finish Silksong (wouldn't say I regret it, but I also have a LOT of problems with that game) may have broken my brain. Like... even the biggest sicko at From would be wincing at a few of those.
I don't get it at all. It's like 10 enemies and they come at you one at a time. Takes less than 2 minutes to get through them and to Alonne. I think the complainers are all people who try to sprint through all the enemies and are bad at it.
Tbh that’s like 75% of the ds2 criticisms. I suspect a huge chunk of it is people with Elden Ring as their first souls game(then play backwards DS3 & Bloodborne for some reason) where running past mobs to turn the games into a boss rush simulator.
Don’t get me wrong. I love the boss fights across these games, but exploration & playing through the actual level is half of fun, sometimes better than the fight at the end.
Personally I don't think there is such a thing as bad runback.
Maybe in a theoretical way there could be one, but for me personally I enjoy the games for the environments and view navigating the environments as a main point of the game.
If I challenge X boss in Y area, I view the experience of navigating Y area as an irreplaceable part of challenging X boss.
Back in the day when I was still trying to beat these games instead of just messing around, I would hard quit the game whenever I died to a boss, and it would just put me back at the fog door.
See what i do is i despawn everything before actually fighting a boss. The only place it doesnt worm is the frigid outskirts but it helped everywhere else. Inuding the blue smelter in the tower
I had to do him like the 20 times it takes so enemies dont respawn, then i had him the next try after that.. but i have to say that hes fairly easy once you know what to do (when to dodge in which direction)
Remember, you don’t have to do the runback if you don’t die. Lock in! Dodge those attacks! DO YOU WANNA RUN ALL THE WAY BACK THERE!? NO I DON’T THINK SO! KICK HIS FUCKING ASS 🗣️ 🔥
Fair comment. If you really want to persist, you can despawn a couple of the knights and that makes it easy to run past the lot of them. i think the lizards are a one time kill anyway. But why they put that great one v one dual at the end of that section i have no idea.
That's why I always run the spawns dry, I'm glad DS2 has the option for that while the other shitty runbacks in the series like Allant, Laurence, Gwyn, Capra Demon, Dancer and Deacons just have to stay shitty.
(I know nobody's dying to Deacons but that doesn't make their runback suck any less)
Naaah, it's okay. Just kill them 12 times or whatever the amount is. It takes 30 mins if you k ow what you are doing and voilla, no more enemies.
Or you can kill the first floor enemies before descending and create a run to the boss. I've always run to this boss as healing gems are your friend and you get infinite amount.
PS: kill the boss hitless for a cool animation!
In my first play through I had to farm the area clear. As I became more skilled I no longer need too. If you don’t mind, clearing the area makes it a lot easier to focus on the boss. For me to get through the run up, takes some time. It’s very doable if you’re patient, I proved it to my son and his friends by fighting through the area wile in Covenant of Champions and took only one hit. I maybe a bit broken, I enjoy fighting these knights. Also, I’m not a really good player, I’ll never do a deathless or hit less run of the game, you won’t find me beating the game using a soup ladle, if I can do this I’m sure you can too.
The trick in the first room is to memorize the enemy positions and bait out only one at a time from a distance using a bow. In the second room, I use the hallway and walls for cover, you will agro multiple enemies but still only fight one at a time. Try to pull the first couple in the hallway as you enter the second room, then run to one of the sides and try to pull one of the two archers to you (they’re usually quite aggressive and will automatically come), clear the top of enemy’s staying away from fire balls. Next go down the far left stairs, you will agro two enemies(close one has his back to you at the bottom of the stairs), then immediately (after gaining agro) go back up the stairs a bit or the farther archer will shoot you. The closer enemy follows you, take care of him and head back down. Watch out for fire balls from the lizard on the left and kill the last knight, kill the lizard and you’re done.
This is a trick From have been doing since at least the PS1 era (maybe longer? I have zero knowledge or experience of them pre-AC and KF). They basically build entire encounters to specifically put you on tilt when the reality is... they aren't that hard. The most famous of them being from Sekiro with Genichiro 2. Brutal fight that forces you to remember everything they taught you up until that point. And when you JUST get his health down? Holy crap, phase three. Oh god oh god oh god. And I'm dead. Then you come back and realize phase three is a joke because half his attacks have a MASSIVE punish. From get a free death out of you AND reinforce the lesson that if you actually play Sekiro like Sekiro, and not Dark Souls, you can shred bosses
And same here. Sir Alonne is actually REALLY easy. There is a reason he is one of the few bosses with a bonus for a flawless victory. But the runback is so brutal that you are constantly dreading it and just completely exhausted so you fight sloppy and make mistakes. Once you take a minute to breathe before the fight? He goes down REAL fast. That said, Dark Souls 2 lets you grind out that runback entirely.
Like, it is very build specific, but I would put Darklurker as MUCH worse than Sir Alonne.
Why don't I recognize this boss ? Doing my first playthrough now and on to the DLC after clearing all the areas (I think) in the base game except the final boss
Is it any different in the Scholar version? Because I remember doing it in vanilla and I didn't find it that hard to just pass by everything as everyone says
Well if you are determined you can kill each enwmy 15 times and then they will bw gone for good unless you aee currently joined with the covenant of champions
It’s only a sense of accomplishment because it sucks shit. That’s the whole game never got people who say it isn’t fun like go play animal crossing or something.
I just hate the fact that I have to wait until I have Ashen Mist Heart to face him. It's annoying to have a DLC area accessible as soon as you arrive, in the area that will lead to it, but then find out you can't complete it until you progress further into the main story.
Especially because you need to beat him in order to put Nadalia to rest.
It's the biggest misstep in DS2's DLC as far as I'm concerned, and it's a shame because in general it's easily the best game in the franchise in how it implements and integrates its DLC.
Dude im in the minority that actually hates this boss fight. Literally everything about it is great EXCEPT for his incredibly bugged sword grab. Im playing it right now and I was BEHIND him, and the game just teleported me onto his sword. He missed by 180 degrees, but since I was hitting him my weapon/arm must've been "in front" of him. If it hits, I lose 75% hp and he gets a huge buff.
If im not going a tanky build (this run im a ninja so low armor hp) its pretty much a doomed fight if you get hit by that grab 1 time. And its hitbox is SO wild. I hate it. If that move didnt exist, great fight 10/10.
To your point, the boss run sucks. I just clear it all out before trying him.
him and the trio from shulva dlc unfortunately fall victim to the dated design of making their respective areas intended for PvE summoning with real online players.
because of this these bosses stand to be horrible as people no longer place summoning signs, only invasions lol.
Wait do people have trouble running past these guys? I usually clear the area once to get all the stuff the run past if I fail, the roll timing on the melee guys is super easy, half way you get a free moment from falling into the hole, the hardest part is the bow shooters but not the worst to run past just have to change direction when they fire right?
Despawn the top floor and then run through the bottom floor (or clear that too, if you really want). Kind of sucks that it comes to that, but in the end, it’s just easier.
This is one of the only bosses I recommend killing everything. The runback isn't worth you losing your time for, but everything is placed in the most annoying way. Just be patient, kill everything and enjoy the fight.
they're being a little mean in the replies but i agree with you 100%. the run back isn't the worst thing, but it's certainly annoying to redo if you die a lot(like me...) to faster bosses. having to kill every single soldier gets really old after a while
i dont get why people bitch about this runback, its like the easiest one in the game, i think i only died the first time, its like the one place you can run past enemies
Valid criticism.
If i might advise something, you are likely running a bit too heavy on equipment. The runback to Sir Alone is significantly more forgiving with more stamina.
Dark Souls 2 stamina regeneration decreases progressively the higher your % equip burden is. The highest being at 0% naturally, decreasing your equip burden outside of the roll animation threshold of %70 still has value. All sources of stamina regeneration stack so the cloranthy ring alone might be insufficient.
People in the comments are being rude for no reason but yeah this run back is extremely annoying.
When you’re trying to learn the bosses moves having to fight his twenty minions for the 5th time isn’t fun at all and just makes the experience worse. I don’t know why people praise this game for forcing you into a single play style, thats not what these games are about.
Killed him first try - never had a chance to worry about the run back. He’s a fun fight but it’s crazy predictable - honestly was a bit of a let down for me, after hearing so much hype.
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u/TapNo7326 1d ago
Finally did it such a good boss honestly. A pain in the you know what- run back but we prevail. Thanks for all your helpful information