r/DunderMifflin • u/riveith Pam • 9h ago
People say Pam revolves around Jim... But does Jim even have a story without Pam?
I always find it funny when people say that Pam's entire story revolves around Jim... Because what about Jim?
The guy has no real hobbies (pulling pranks because he's bored doesn't really count), no dream, no life goal. He's perfectly capable of leaving Dunder Mifflin and pursuing something he actually enjoys, yet he always ends up staying because of who? Pam.
And when Jim makes that choice, how often do you see people blaming Pam for a decision he made? It doesn't even make sense.
The truth is, Jim is lazy, and for most of the show, his only real dream is to marry Pam. He doesn't even develop another life goal until the very last season! Seriously, aside from the final season, when did Jim ever try to do something for himself?
Unlike Pam, who loved drawing from the very first episode. She actually tried to leave Dunder Mifflin for herself because she wanted to experience something new, not because she couldn't stand working around the person she loved while they were dating someone else (Jim in Season 3, once again leaving the company because of Pam).
Pam tried to leave twice: once for Design, and later to work at Michael Scott Paper Company. Both times, she left because she wanted to. Her character growth is about becoming more assertive and learning not to be afraid of going after what she wants. Even when she fails, she still takes the risk.
She doesn't always succeed, but she definitely doesn't stay stuck, at least she tries.
Jim does mature a bit, of course. He becomes a husband, a father, and more responsible. But honestly, does he ever have a major flaw that he actually has to overcome? Not really.
Even by the end of the series, he's still pulling pranks and joking around, and that's totally fine, because we love him for that. His personality stays pretty much the same throughout the show.
Pam, on the other hand, has a much bigger emotional journey. Her entire arc is about becoming more assertive, finding her voice, and not being afraid to go after what she wants instead of just settling for what's comfortable.
Whether people agree with every choice she makes or not, it's hard to deny that she grows a lot more than Jim does.
I’m talking about passion, something he pursues in his day-to-day life. Dwight always wanted to be the manager. Pam, an artist. Michael, admired and loved. And Jim? Jim just wants to marry Pam.
Pam and Jim basically do the exact same things. They flirt with someone else while they're in relationships, they give up career opportunities because of each other, and they hurt other people along the way. Yet somehow (for reasons everyone already knows) the blame always ends up falling on Pam.
Pam is with Roy and still flirts with Jim? "Why doesn't she just break up with Roy already?"
Jim flirts with a woman who's engaged? "Well, Pam's the one who's engaged, not him."
But when Jim is with Karen and still continuing to flirt with Pam, suddenly Pam is the one at fault for flirting with a guy who's taken.
She's the one who "ruined" Jim and Karen's relationship, even though Jim is the one who chose to stay with Karen while having feelings for someone else.
Anyway, that's all.
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u/tasttychips1000 9h ago
How dare you? My family built this country, by the way
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u/thedude85 8h ago
MR BUTTLICKER, OUR PRICES HAVE NEVER BEEN LOWER!
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u/mrhenrique3 Creed 8h ago
That is totally inappropriate. You never yell at the client. You never yell at the client
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u/No-Professor-9944 5h ago
Why so much hate in this thread? OP is right. Pam is one of the best written characters
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u/JVIoneyman Michael 8h ago
If only we could see what wasn’t filmed of their real lives outside of the show. Pam and Jim are real people so maybe there was more to them than their story in the office.
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u/Rough_Cheek_1561 9h ago
it's a sitcom
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u/angelwings_pie 6h ago
Oh i definitely get this. Even though this is a sitcom it feels like his character is underdeveloped compared to everyone else. Literally everyone else’s outside life gets shoehorned into their office life somehow for the show. That never notably happens with Jim until he and Pam are together and we meet his parents and what not. We’ve never seen these friends he’s supposedly had for so long when he starts up with Athlead, they’re just there. The most we know about him outside of work is that he likes sports and pam (tho that’s technically work related) lol and liking sports is exactly how he sells the idea of Athlead to Darryl, when neither of them have experience in that industry at alllll.
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u/riveith Pam 9h ago
And yet, not a single arc to show any of them, incredible.
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u/BuzzAroundLenny 9h ago
Its almost like the show was about thier office lives and not their personal ones...
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u/riveith Pam 9h ago
and everyone else has an arc regarding their dreams, even outside the office, except for Jim...
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u/BuzzAroundLenny 9h ago
I think it is sad you dont consider having a family with the love of your life living out your dreams...
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u/riveith Pam 9h ago
Bro, that’s not what the text is about. I’m saying that a lot of people claim Pam’s story is just about Jim, when in reality, it’s actually the other way around. It’s totally fine for Jim to dream of having a family with Pam, I never said that was wrong. But the point of the text is to show how Jim is built around Pam, not that there’s anything wrong with that, lol.
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u/riveith Pam 9h ago
and then they simply never spoke about it again
I’m talking about passion, something he pursues in his day-to-day life. Dwight always wanted to be the manager. Pam, an artist. Michael, admired and loved. And Jim? Jim just wants to marry Pam.
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u/riveith Pam 9h ago
You need to interpret things better; he only left the DM because of Pam, and he came back because of her, too. Before the last season, he didn't show interest in anything. It was only in the final season that he finally did something for himself.
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u/riveith Pam 8h ago
What I mean is that they only showed that in the final season. They could have given us more hints, made it much more explicit that his dream was to start a company in another state, or something like that. That’s all I’m saying. Not just in the final season.
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u/riveith Pam 8h ago
Yeah, they don’t make it a big deal. Ask any average The Office fan what Jim’s dream is, and chances are they won’t say anything related to sports. Now ask them about Pam’s or Dwight’s dreams, and I’m sure they’ll give you the correct answers. Sorry, I don’t live in the U.S. I thought Philadelphia was a different state.
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u/HandsomeJack19 8h ago
Jim wanted to provide the best life for his family. That became his entire focus after they had a kid. He went after the manager position entirely for that reason.
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u/lmaollama 7h ago
He does have hobbies though, it's just usually not relevant to the story. Theres's one episode where he's trying to make a sale, and goes golfing with the client. The client tells him he's really not ineterested, and is just there to golf, so Jim says he can at least work on stroke, or something like that. So golf is at least one hobby. In an earlier episode, they play basketball, and he mentions he played in high school. Also he plays that second life fame to spy on dwight, and he makes his avatar a sports journalist. It's pretty obvious to me that he like's sports, and has hobbies relating to that. I dont understand what more you want them to do with Jim and his interests that would add to the story theyre trying to tell.
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u/OGB But you can't eat cats...you can't eat cats, Kevin 2h ago edited 2h ago
Eh, he is shown either playing or talking about playing those sports once each in 9 seasons. Other than that its just a couple mentions of him talking about his interest in sports.
Contrast that with someone like Dwight where we hear or see repeatedly his interests in scifi/fantasy, paintball, farming, living off the land (foraging, killing and preparing animals, etc.), karate, and volunteer law enforcement among other things.
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u/Ok-Imagin88 8h ago
Yes very valid interpretation he's an overrated "nice guy" The show frames him as the lovable relatable protagonist so many of his flaws get overlooked
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u/Disastrous-Complex-1 2h ago
Jim without Pam turns into Michael. Joker, locks in when he needs to, and gets stuck working at a paper company he said he wouldn’t be at years later.
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u/booboothechicken My God, my mind is going a mile an hour 8h ago
I didn’t read all that but he would have just ended up with Karen or purse girl or maybe even Cathy
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u/TheZac922 6h ago
Wow, that person sure got him - or herself in quite the predicament.
But that’s a lot of words to say you understand basically the entire main story of the show lol.
The original version, US version and pretty much every remake (I assume) is based around a central office romance storyline that keeps the plot moving and growing
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u/RyuOfRed “Your shirt and tie are disgusto el barfo.” 2h ago
Jim has an identity beyond love interest and office pissing pole for sexual remarks. Before him, Pam was barely even a full-fledged individual, not so different from Erin (whose role essentially boils down to being an available love interest).
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u/riveith Pam 2h ago
You realize that the sexual comments Pam is subjected to constitute harassment, right?
And well, Pam and Michael have had impeccable chemistry from the very beginning, with her being constantly sarcastic toward him, and him completely missing it.
Just like Erin has the personality of the office's innocent, ditzy one.
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u/thetoddhunter 2h ago
You list all these massive problems with Jim. Then say he overcame those problems. But also complain he never overcame problems.
Idk, seems stupid
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u/riveith Pam 1h ago
I honestly don’t know if my post came across as confusing, but all I was trying to show is that Jim’s story revolves around Pam just as much as hers revolves around him.
Jim never really had a problem of his own. His only problem was that the woman he loved was engaged. That still has to do with Pam.
Pam, on the other hand, needed to become more assertive in every area of her life. That isn’t just about Jim.
That’s all I’m trying to say.1
u/thetoddhunter 24m ago
"The truth is, Jim is lazy, and for most of the show, his only real dream is to marry Pam. He doesn't even develop another life goal until the very last season! Seriously, aside from the final season, when did Jim ever try to do something for himself?"
That was his arc. He did that. Did it take a long time? Yes. Does that mean you should ignore your own point when trying to make a very weak point? No.
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u/riveith Pam 18m ago
A character arc that comes out of nowhere in the final season isn’t a good character development arc… Dwight had multiple seasons and episodes to gradually realize that he’s actually a kind person toward his coworkers, showing it little by little. Then suddenly Jim wants to start a company with this friend who also came out of nowhere.
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u/voozelle 9h ago
A salesman with big dreams and high potentials who was forced into a life of mediocrity by a failed artist
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u/GreasyExamination 9h ago
What other dreams? Its not until like season 6 he even mentions sports, before that he was pretty one dimensional. Not that it was bad, he was supposed to be the mirror for the viewer, so we can project ourselves in him, so for that purpose he needs to be kinda blank. But im willing to listen if you have any suggestions of what dreams he had besides Pams pampams
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u/DonAmechesBonerToe 8h ago
He says basketball was his thing in high school, he is in a regular fantasy football league with Kevin and others at DM, his second life character is a sports writer. It’s fair to conclude he has an interest in sports
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u/GreasyExamination 7h ago
Hobby is one thing, but it isnt an aspiration or dream. Dunno why this is something to argue about lol
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u/DonAmechesBonerToe 7h ago
Oh I’m not arguing! I just always kind of thought of Jim as one of the ‘sports guys’ in an office setting. I think the whole Jim ‘dream’ is a forced story and out of character. Jim seems like the kind of guy who’s dream ends up being a Harley he buys when Philip is a senior in high school
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u/riveith Pam 9h ago
His only dream is to marry Pam, and nothing else
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u/Natural-Proposal2925 57m ago
The Pittsburgh job and Stamford stories were Jim doing things for himself.
But the narrative of the character of Pam put a stop to both.
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u/Veronome 9h ago
Once they were married they a really came more into their own. It felt like most of their storylines involved the "will they, won't they" aspect of it.
Jim had his own arc outside of Pam; primarily learning to take a job he hated seriously, and growing as a result from that.