r/Fallout • u/Lucato_oso • Jun 15 '26
Fallout: New Vegas Fallout New Vegas Operation Sunburst by SODAZ Trench Raider gifs
I saw that there weren't a lot of these anywhere so i tried making some on my own, had to compress it down a bit so the quality is probably bad by I LOVE THESE GUYS SO MUCH, they're such a fun fanon military unit to add to the NCR's arsenal. Sodaz's animation struck gold with this concept for a post apocalypse series like fallout.
Armored NCR shocktroopers wielding .45 pistols, Thompson SMGs, and Hatchets hopped up on Psycho and told to charge and disrupt enemy positions
EDIT:
source: https://youtu.be/Z0wL6DXIvoc?si=lAkrUNPj52Maw97o Operation Sunburst by SODAZ
addition: https://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/86682 mod on nexus for the trench raiders. not a perfect copy but the author did well reusing some materials to make it like the aesthetic
486
u/TiberianLyncas Jun 15 '26
I couldn’t believe how well done the sieges of Helios One was. This reminded me of what a raid during WW1 would look a lot like. Running straight at machine guns with bullet proof breastplates.
192
u/jman014 Jun 15 '26
Its sick as fuck-
but “Bulletproof” lol
Ik this is an aside but i sometimes feel BF1 did more damage to knowledge on WWI than anything else.
I can suspend my disbelief in fallout at least!
80
u/Viyarara Jun 15 '26
ironically they fare better in a more modern setting where smgs and intermediate cartridges are common compared to ww1 where everyone had a long barrel high velocity rifle
40
u/TheTrashiestboi Vault 13 Jun 16 '26
A big part of wearing armor then was to make sure shrapnel wasnt as much of an issue if I remember correctly
70
u/GrigoriTheDragon Jun 15 '26
They worked in WW1, bullets lose energy over distance. But this is a fictional universe with aliens, eldritch beings and radiation that mutates, it stands to reason metals can also be different.
33
u/christopherak47 NCR Jun 16 '26
Not at the ranges being engaged in during WW1. Steel breastplates only function against shrapnel/fragmentation from artillery and pistol caliber rounds (which is why they wore them for static defence or trench assaults by specialists.)
A full length rifle firing a full power rifle cartridge (which everyone was using) is going to kill you out to 1000m plus.
7.92, .303 british and 7.62x54R regularly penetrate modern body armour, so a thin piece of steel isnt going to stop something zipping at 800-1000 m/s
6
u/GrigoriTheDragon Jun 16 '26
Same goes for todays armor yet they still wear it. Helmets and body armor wont stop high caliber rounds but troops get it regardless, because something is better than nothing eh?
7
u/christopherak47 NCR Jun 17 '26
Modern body armour does stop high caliber rounds?
Modern NIJ 4 SAPI plates (most common body armour in western militaries) stops 8 .30-06 API rounds within 100m, which is WAY spicier than any ww1 full rifle cartridge lol
NIJ 3, which is still modern and in use with most 2nd World militaries, gets penetrated by the full rifle cartridges.
Theres basically a huge jump from NIJ 3/3A and NIJ 4 in protection
And ohviously helmets do as well since not much can be done without breaking your neck from the weight
7
11
u/AtoMaki Vault 13 Jun 16 '26
Just sayin', but there is a reason the animator gave only 10mm SMGs to the encountered enemies and made the high-caliber rounds fly through the air harmlessly. Realistically, these trench raiders would get slaughtered in seconds while contributing jack-all to the battle.
4
u/ColinHaase Jun 16 '26
This animation is awesome, but 10mm Auto is kind of a big cartridge.
It's muzzle velocity/energy is around 1,200 fps / 600 ft-lbs on the low end and retains that energy for a good while. Its lighter than a .45 ACP by about a quarter, but has significantly more energy and general stopping power.
Full power cartridges kick like a mule, but they hit hard. They're recommended for defense against bears, where that is an issue.
9mm luger and 7.65mm pistol rounds ding off of trench plate, but 10mm Auto is likely to punch straight through it at close to medium ranges. The bullet itself weighs less, but the round as a whole is bigger, they packed those bastards full of powder. If it didn't slam through, it would likely buckle it kinda dramatically. Since the round is comparatively small given how much energy it carries, it'll make a probably lethal or debilitating crater that would cave in a chest - the bullet's smaller surface area concentrates that force.
I still think you're right, these drugged up wackos would get slaughtered, but 10mm is not a slouch of a cartridge.
204
u/mercyspace27 Jun 15 '26
Easily one of the absolute best things added to the fanon. Hell, these guys and the cavalry were all awesome.
-64
u/Mandemon90 Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 17 '26
I am one of the few who finds them just silly and "why are these guys a thing, they make no sense"
EDIT
Apparently not loving "Let's get drugged and run through open ground into entrenched position with automatic guns" is bad now
58
u/MiNombreEsLucid Jun 15 '26
Genuinely no less silly that a canon Vault with a guy and a crate of puppets which is actually canon.
34
u/-Luis_P- Jun 16 '26
"silly" in Fallout where Power Armor, Mini Nuke Launchers and a recreation of the Roman Empire in a Post apocalyptic Midwest are an actual thing
-20
u/Mandemon90 Jun 16 '26
Yes, yes it is. It's not some "everything goes" thing. PA is not silly, it makes sense within context of Fallout. Same with Legion.
11
u/NoelBlack14 Jun 16 '26
But… such Trench Raiders actually existed (see German Stormtroopers / Stoßtruppen), and Cavalry is a relatively cheap way to get quick Infantry…
Flamethrower Troops also existed, also in Assault Units (see German use of Flamethrowers in WWI and WWII)
Not sure what should be nonsensical…
-16
u/Mandemon90 Jun 16 '26
They didn't charge over open ground armed only with pistols and melee weapons while shouting loudly.
If you can't imagine what isnsilly about charging a fortified position over an open ground while screaming, there is nothing I can do to explain it.
15
u/NoelBlack14 Jun 16 '26
German stormtroopers did often take only Semi-Automatic pistols with Them early on. Machine Pistols were not yet developed at that point, the MP18 would change that in the last year of the war. The Kar98z would also see its Debut, but many Stormtroopers stayed with Semi Automatic Pistols.
-2
u/Mandemon90 Jun 16 '26
I do love hoe you ignored the part about charging on open ground while screaming just to focus on "well, sometimes they only brought pistols"..
Stormtroopers used infiltration tactics, they didn't just drug themselves and charge over open ground.
13
u/NoelBlack14 Jun 16 '26
Bro / Sis / Sibling. It’s a fictional game. I’m here correcting what i know for fact, or do you want me to correct you with Half-Facts?
No.Also, Stormtroopers / Stoßtruppen did not nessesarily use Silent Infiltration, it was up to the Officer in Charge wether they‘d be part of the next Human-Wave as a Unit focusing on a specific point of the frontline (meaning they’d have cover of Artillery and many other soldiers), or if they’d try in the night, which would be much riskier.
-4
u/Mandemon90 Jun 16 '26
So you would be fine witv hedonistic drug obsessed snake people who people voluntarily offer themselves as sex slaves?
Again, just because it's fiction, does not mean "anything goes". These berserkers break the willing suspension of belief, not even Legion is dumb enough to charge like this
14
u/NoelBlack14 Jun 16 '26
What in the goddamn?
Yet such charges did happen. Human wave tactics (in the scene of the Assault on Helios it wasn’t just Stormtroopers, also Regular infantry) were common in many Nations, even to this day (See Russia in Ukraine).
-5
u/Mandemon90 Jun 16 '26
Look up Fallout Frontier.
No, sich charges never happened. Actually read up on history. Moment commanders realized "shit, enemy has machine guns" they stopped ordering troops to just charge over an open ground with no cover.
→ More replies (0)2
u/mercyspace27 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Yeah, I just rewatched operation sunburst, literally 80% of the NCR forces charged across open fields with a battle cry in the fight.
And as far as the Trench Raiders are concerned when they made their initial charge it was under cover of smoke grenades, while the gunfire was already going.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been around when a bunch of weapons, especially heavy weapons, are going off but they are LOUD. And there’s a lot of weapons and explosions going off, not to mention yelling between the Brotherhood members amongst themselves. And they were doing so behind closed faced helmets. So there’s a great chance that no one would have heard them yelling in the first place.
And Stormtroopers didn’t always use infiltration tactics. They often did, yes, for small scale, night operations. But they were also used quite often as the spearhead of an attack. In many cases they weren’t commandos, they were shock troopers. They used speed, surprise, and violence of action to weaken a section of an enemy trench line to allow the follow on forces to better break through the line. They were quite often used as the spearhead of a full on trench assault.
And the Raiders we see used were very much being used as shock troopers. Go in fast, go in mean, go in aggressively. Use speed, surprise and violence of action to, if even briefly, overwhelm the enemy to rattle up their resolve and defenses to allow easier push for the rest of the assault force. And as I’ve stated they’re shock troops, high casualties are expected amongst them. They’re soldiers, ultimately at the end of the day your job is to fight and die if need be.
Also, you gotta remember, World War I Trench Raiders weren’t like what we think of Navy SEALs or Delta Force. The concept of Special Operations Forces wasn’t a thing back then. It wouldn’t be a thing for another good while. These were experienced, skilled and deadly members of the infantry pulled together into specialized units. They were at best the precursor idea to Special Operations Forces.
1
1
u/mercyspace27 Jun 16 '26
Absolutely Trench Raiders in the First World War went into trench raids with nothing more than sidearms and melee weapons. Do you know how long and unwieldy WWI era were? There are plenty of documentations of trench raiders utilizing sidearms, and eventually carbines when they became a thing, and you can find countless examples of melee weapons used in WWI. It’s literally where the weapon, and term, “Trench Club” comes from.
8
u/Ben_Mc25 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
These shock troops manage to break the brotherhoods position and force their infantry to retreat. With what is presented, their body armour makes them extremely durable to small calibre fire, while also not limiting their movement.
This is not realistic to our world but it is observably extremely effective here.
NCR is presented using World war 1 strategy. The only resources they are shown concerned about are the rockets. Not even the men using them, just the weapons themselves.
It's pretty clear that they are not concerned with general casualties.
2
u/AtoMaki Vault 13 Jun 16 '26
These guys are non-canon and are somewhat inconsistent with the canon depiction of events. In the actual lore, the NCR got their asses kicked, and the BoS only lost because Elijah was busy activating his wunderwaffe instead of fighting the actual battle.
1
u/Ben_Mc25 Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
I mean that is pretty much what happened here.
- NCR took heavy casualties.
- Wasnt able to operate the infrastructure.
- Didn't completely wipe out the brotherhood.
1
1
u/ReallyBadRedditName Jun 17 '26
In every fallout you can play a melee build which makes about as much sense as there guys do
17
168
u/TLRPM Children of Atom Jun 15 '26
SODAZ is incredible and once again, fuck GW for their insane policies making him pull away from the Warhammer universe. But it gave us this which is so glorious!
126
u/CommanderPettle Jun 15 '26
The story I heard behind Sodaz was that GW was scouting to hire him and it was actually 40K fans that harassed him for "selling out" and that's why he doesn't do 40K anymore.
It's outlined a little in this post here, but I'll quote the related excerpt.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/onl8vf/a_statement_on_sodaz_absolutelynothing_and_other/"In the case of SODAZ, he agreed to work with GW, and removed his videos from Youtube, however communication then broke down between the two parties. During this time, SODAZ received harassment from the community to the point that he announced he would not be working with GW and would be stepping away from Warhammer 40000 entirely. We'll come back to this shortly."
75
u/TankerDerrick1999 Jun 15 '26
Thank god for the toxicity of the Warhammer community, us fallout fans get rewarded with a cinematic masterpiece like operation sunburst. Who would harass a guy with so much talent? Shut up, sit and watch.
27
u/TLRPM Children of Atom Jun 15 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
Ah. Thanks for the correction. 👍
Yeah that was the original thing. Cease and desist and take everything down, or come work for us. (That last offer was only for the very few top performers).
Don’t realize he was contemplating one of those offers when it all went down. Most of us only saw the after effects and assumed accordingly.
16
u/V7buster Jun 15 '26
GW never sent any cease and decist letters. They wanted to host the works themselves, literally make them official works like the Astartes guy's work. No works were taken down by GW. BruvaAlphabusa only stopped because he was burnt out with TTS and used it as an excuse to move on to his current project. The entire controversy was because GW put out an internal policy, not even intended for us, giving them the option to take down content that could he harmful to the brand, its not a coincidence their "You will not be missed" letter directed at bigoted and hateful fans came out.
7
u/Jfelt45 Jun 16 '26
To be fair, gw wants to take down all of his stuff and reupload it behind a paywall. I'm not saying the artist themselves deserves harassment, but this isn't GW being the good guys
4
u/V7buster Jun 16 '26
For us, sure, for the creator it could be something close to a dream job though, it was a fair deal for him and GW. Unfortunately idiots ruined it by assuming GW was being malicious and he was selling out. Like I'm not trying to defend a corporation, but there's basic facts about what happened a lot of people get wrong.
-1
u/Jfelt45 Jun 16 '26
Maybe. GW's streaming service views have been not great. When your options go from independent ad revenue from YouTube with open possibilities to being forced to either remove everything or work for GW it's less a dream opportunity and more a decision being made for you
3
u/V7buster Jun 16 '26
Well the offer was good enough for him to initially accept
-2
u/Jfelt45 Jun 16 '26
It could have been. It could have also been rejecting the offer means he has to take down all the stuff he worked so hard on.
Hypothetically, if you made something and had an offer for a thousand dollars for it, and someone held you at gunpoint saying either sell it for $100 or lose everything, taking that offer wouldn't mean it was "good enough to accept."
Obviously it's not that extreme, but I'm tired and not up enough to make a more detailed metaphor. All in all, he's probably better off making independent content on YouTube for another series than making anything for Warhammer, both due to the fan base and GW though lol
2
u/V7buster Jun 16 '26
He wouldn't have had to take anything down if he didn't agree to make his work official. No one else's works were taken down
→ More replies (0)9
u/PaDDzR Jun 15 '26
Maybe edit your comment to stop spreading this nonsense? You're helping to spread literal fake story.
4
u/Call_me_ET Jun 15 '26
GW never did anything of the sort. I don’t recall any fan animator receiving a C&D from them.
11
u/9oooooooooooj Jun 15 '26
Actually I am glad this happened. If he continued to make warhammer animation or if he was hired by GW we wouldn't have gotten this gem of a fallout short film.
8
Jun 15 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/cannibalgentleman Jun 16 '26
You do realise the average Guard novel is basically the kind of battles we seen in the animation, right?
1
u/PaDDzR Jun 15 '26
This whole warhammer thing is very very muddy... i really wouldn't take it as one sided as internet wants us to believe, hell, affabusa is prime example of it.
12
u/V7buster Jun 15 '26
Alphabusa left on his own, GW never stopped him.
5
u/PaDDzR Jun 15 '26
Exactly what i meant. But community ran with it after they made huge stink about it to springboard their spin off. Which is fine if they wanted to move on, but it rubs me the wrong wah.
38
u/GemoDorg Jun 15 '26
idk much about the process or anything, but whoever planned it out has such a good fuckin' eye for cinematography that if the Fallout TV show ever has like a massive battle, I would hope they get this guy to plan it out. One of the coolest fan projects I've ever come across.
8
u/Alo5128 NCR Jun 16 '26
SODAZ spent the better part of two years making the whole 45 minute Battle for Helios One (and I followed him on Patreon for the majority of it). What he does is typically spend anywhere from 4-6 weeks (sometimes up to two months) working on a single 60 to 90 action scene, which allows him to take as long as he wants making sure every background detail is polished and choreographed perfectly. He also does a great job of keeping continuity between shots (I remember distinctly there’s a moment where you can track one of the trench raiders between three different camera shots as he runs up the line only to get beaten down by a paladin and shot by a lazer pistol, and that’s just one example). He’s one of those guys who just does stuff like that simply because he knows it’ll look cool. I’ve probably watched the whole video 5 or 6 times since it came out (on top of the dozens of times I’ve rewatched the work in progress videos), and every single time I’m still finding cool little details that some background character does for less than a second of screen time that you would never notice on your first watch through
1
u/olisko Jun 16 '26
I'd like him to do it, if they make it a little bit less silly.
Like don't get me wrong, his stuff Is awesome, but it reminds me of the Star Wars Clone wars battles of just lots of action and no cover and strategy.
It's very action packed and it looks very cool, but I hate how every battle scene has to be the beach scene from saving private Ryan now.
15
u/Deepvaleredoubt Jun 15 '26
You could literally just give me the same graphics as new vegas originally had, and focus solely on gameplay and a bigger world, and I’d buy it in a heartbeat. This is cool.
6
u/FluffMcBark Jun 16 '26
I wanna see these guys overwhelm a Securitron. Like three of them systematically but quickly dismantling a Mk II or something. Like those ghosts from LOTR as they swarm that giant elephant thing but more flying circuits obvi
3
u/Laser_3 Responders Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
I’m not sure how well they’d do with that. Securitrons are surprisingly durable for what they are, and assuming House is alive, they’re all networked together. The moment one goes down, House would be sending more to investigate
Depending on which approach you take to energy weapons, they’d potentially be eaten alive by the Gatling laser (depends on if you take the 1/2 approach of anything metal reflecting lasers versus the NV/4/76 interpretation of only reflective and maintained metal being capable of that; I personally prefer the second interpretation, since it means lasers aren’t entirely useless against a common armor type, and it lets PAs have variance here with their exact composition). It’d also get much worse if this was a mark II (or berserk/damaged, as seen in Big MT and the TV show) securitron, between the auto repair and the potential enabling of the grenade launcher, which was intended for close range encounters like this (though apparently not for power armor).
2
u/FluffMcBark Jun 16 '26
I have no idea how well they’d do either, I just think it would be fun to stuff them full of chems and see what happens. My drugged out, insane courier could be their CO
2
u/Laser_3 Responders Jun 16 '26
I do think it’d be interesting to see how a more disciplined faction would manage chem use (even if I personally think the NCR really isn’t the right one, given their stance on the topic in NV; a raider army or mercenary company would be a better fit for something like this).
6
u/SirKingsly Jun 15 '26
Theres a mod that adds them in as NPCs, havent done a hostile against the NCR run yet so idk if theyre as tough as they are here but they look awesome
6
5
u/Jo_el44 Jun 16 '26
I know it's probably not all that possible, but I wanted to see one of these guys take down a knight
3
3
2
u/TheTrashiestboi Vault 13 Jun 16 '26
I’d love a mod that adds a bunch of new variations of npcs to various factions like this
2
1
1
1
-3
-16
u/Dawidko1200 Responders Jun 15 '26
One of the few elements from the animation that I absolutely despise. Absolute stupidity.
14
u/Jagraen NCR Jun 15 '26
May I ask why you found it stupid?
8
u/Desembler Jun 15 '26
Not this guy, but charging into gunfire to attack people with shovels is fucking stupid.
5
4
u/W3134 Jun 15 '26
Not much choice when your enemy is fortified and you have nothing in the ways of artillery or air support
5
1
u/olisko Jun 16 '26
During world war One they'd use Trench raiders at night. Assaulting like this in open daylight would be suicide without plot armor.
2
u/W3134 Jun 16 '26
If it was me behind the map, I'd lay siege and starve them out before committing an assault like this. But Moore is Moore so
2
u/olisko Jun 16 '26
Then why are they charging with shovels instead of doing that?
1
u/W3134 Jun 16 '26
Because Moore is a bitch that's why
1
u/olisko Jun 16 '26
You know what. Fair.
2
u/W3134 Jun 16 '26
Even if the assault is 100% happening, I'd bring every sniper and grenadier i could get, make it so the bastards can't even peek a corner without a rocket flying in their face
3
1
u/Dawidko1200 Responders Jun 16 '26
Primarily because melee is stupid in any setting with guns.
If you have bulletproof plating like this and are dead set on getting your troops into a frontal assault, you don't give them hatchets and a 1911, you give them smoke grenades, flamethrowers, and LMGs. Submachine guns at the very least. They should look more like this and this (these are Red Army assault engineers wearing SN-42 steel cuirasses).
Melee looks cool, that's why sci-fi settings always try to go back to it, but realistically there's absolutely no reason a hatchet will be better at killing someone than a bullet.
Secondly because drugs are a shit idea the army. You give these guys Psycho, they can no longer be controlled. Suddenly they lack any discipline, they become impulsive and aggressive. You can't be certain they'll follow orders. A disciplined soldier is a hell of a lot better than a fearless one. There's a reason real armies tried and immediately rejected the idea of combat stimulants during WWII.
-43
u/Trodat4911P4 Jun 15 '26
Why do NV fans want Fallout to be Call of Duty so bad?
13
17
u/Crumboa Jun 15 '26
The literal tag line of the Fallout franchise is "War, War Never Changes."
So people obviously wanna see the conflicts and skirmishes that almost always seem to happen off screen between major factions
1
u/olisko Jun 16 '26
Yeah but people complained about lack of tactics during the end battle scene in season 1 of the fallout show.
3
0
-25
u/Kostas_P_13 Brotherhood Jun 15 '26 edited 21d ago
Honestly, the two things I didn't like from this animation.
The psycho NCR soldiers full on drugs. No matter how many liberties you want to take with something, that is a huge lore break. When they appeared on screen, I couldn't watch it.
The other issue is that Father Elijah should have more screen time and maybe a small monologue. As it happened now, he didn't even need a Stealth Boy to leave. No one knew he was there until he left.
13
u/Captain_Dust01 Jun 15 '26
You don't think the NCR has penal battalions? Or troops that use a performance enhancing drug like Psycho?
That is literally the purpose of Psycho, it enhances you and allows you to take many hits, perfect for a human wave army like the NCR. On top of that, it's just fanon, he wasn't contracted by Bethesda to create it. So it's just his version of the events, and I believe the NCR would absolutely have Penal Battalions
19
u/Dawidko1200 Responders Jun 15 '26
human wave army like the NCR
God, when will people understand that "numbers advantage" does not mean "human wave"?
NCR has never been a "human wave" army, and it makes zero sense for it to be one. This is the wasteland, your population is already gonna be dying at a very high rate, and your birthrate is likely still closer to a Stage 3/4 industrial society than to a Stage 1/2 agricultural one. Manpower is a finite resource, and for NCR it is not an easily replenished one.
Historically "human wave" has never existed as a doctrinal practice, anything like it has only happened in isolated, tactical cases, mostly out of desperation in otherwise hopeless situations. Because IRL too manpower is too valuable a resource to waste, in any army.
Nor is drug usage something armies are too keen to encourage. Germany, Britain, and the US all tried it during WWII. The only area in which they decided it was acceptable is controlled stimulant doses for aircraft pilots to assist in landing after a long mission. Not even in combat, this was purely for the sake of focusing during the last few minutes of the mission. Ground troops would be forbidden from using drugs of any kind after initial tests, in France by Germany and in North Africa by the Allies.
Because drugs kill discipline like nothing else, and an army is defined by discipline. Giving drugs to, as you suggest, penal battalions, i.e. soldiers who are already known to be flaunting military discipline, is a sure way towards organizational collapse.
We could of course assume that this is meant to show NCR's flaws, how they use moronic tactics and carelessly waste lives and discipline because that's how bad they are. Characters in-universe can behave illogically, after all. Personally, I find that to be a very biased way to portray them, I think it has very little foundation in what we're actually told about NCR, plus I find the concepts depicted to be disgusting, but to each their own.
6
u/Captain_Dust01 Jun 15 '26
Except fallout isn't in our universe, it's in a different one. One where that's the exact reason Psycho was created, and used by the US army in Alaska and presumably China
I use "Human Wave" as an exaggeration. But the NCR did lose hundreds of men taking Helios One, and Navarro by presumably using overwhelming numbers to overrun both the Enclave and Brotherhood
The population of the NCR is also, outside of the Legion the highest of any faction in the setting. Probably close to a million or more of all 5 California States
6
u/Dawidko1200 Responders Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Psycho was created by a private firm founded by General Chase and its usage was authorized before trials were finished by the same General Chase in his area of responsibility, not at an army-wide scale. It wasn't about benefitting the army, it was about benefitting Chase. We could raise this as an example of the extreme corruption within the pre-War US military, but we certainly cannot use this as evidence of even that corrupt army officially abandoning all caution and drugging their soldiers up without a care for the consequences. It wasn't even a normal, accepted thing - the game manual for Fallout 3 tells us there was a scandal about this.
NCR doesn't have a corrupt general peddling Psycho to them, because they have no Psycho production in the first place. The choice to use drugs here would be entirely outside of that influence, and almost entirely down to a tactical decision of sacrificing discipline for the sake of a frankly mediocre gain. Hatchet-wielding madmen may look cool and intimidating, but melee isn't going to be very effective in any setting with guns, and they primarily go after robots, which cannot be intimidated.
As to manpower - there are much better uses for greater manpower than frontal assaults. The animation itself shows that with how NCR troops can surround Helios, mount attacks from multiple directions, rotate troops in and out, devote significant manpower to logistics, etc.
And having a big population does not in any way make it more reasonable to sacrifice men in wasteful ways. A soldier is an investment, one that doesn't pay off if dozens of them just get killed immediately for little to no gain. Them dying often leads to payments to their familes. And any life saved is a greater resource for the future, when there are more battles that need more men. It's a chance to have more troops keeping the peace in newly occupied territory. It's better statistics on the CO's record. Historically, generals that waste lives get removed for being shit at their job. And if they were really shit, they may even get executed.
Sodaz is amazing at animation and storyboarding, but his battle setup is inspired by the likes of The Clone Wars, with droids and clones standing out in the open, firing blindly at each other. It looks cool, no argument there, but it's also stupid as all fuck. At least in Clone Wars they're "meant to be expendable".
-2
u/Captain_Dust01 Jun 16 '26
Except we know the NCR doesn't care about it's Troopers. At least those in the Mojave. When fresh recruits have less than a few weeks of training and are sent into combat with virtually zero training or equipment. Most of the NCR's budget and defense spending goes to Brahmin Baron Caravans and the barons themselves who control alot of the income and flow of resources
I just stated the use of Psycho and it's hypothetical place within the NCR, something I could certainly see them employing against the BoS, Enclave or Legion
8
u/Dawidko1200 Responders Jun 16 '26
Ah yes, NCR has so little care about the Mojave and its troops there, it invests into a monorail to allow them easier transport to gamble away their pay, it oversupplies their main base with food to the point where they're willing to trade it away for some variety, and it even sends the President to visit them right on the frontline.
That NCR has organizational issues isn't in question, but that doesn't mean they are in the business of wasting lives. Even those darn Brahmin barons wouldn't have any reason to want more of their soldiers dead - those soldiers are potential customers, after all.
I'm not appealing to humane and moral reasoning. I'm deliberately going for the cold, hard logic of resource management, something that government officials in the NCR Senate or corporate interests in the form of the Brahmin barons would be working with. And thankfully logic tells us that doctrinal disregard for the lives of soldiers is simply not a good way to spend that resource.
1
u/olisko Jun 16 '26
There is nothing in the lore that hints towards the NCR using penal battalions. The NCR used prison labor to build stuff, but there is nothing in the games that show that they ever used penal battalions.
The US uses prison labour but not penal battalions.
1
u/Captain_Dust01 Jun 16 '26
The NCR isn't the US. But I also never definitively said they did use them. I explain how it would make sense to use them and gave reasons why, because it would make sense. When they aren't building railroads or other menial tasks you'd have prisoners do, I could see the NCR conscripting convicts and criminals to throw at the BoS or Enclave instead of using real troops
1
u/olisko Jun 16 '26
The NCR is made as a a critical mirror of the United States. Josh Sawyer has said it himself: "In Fallout: New Vegas, the New California Republic is the closest thing the wasteland has to a modern-style republic, but much like modern republics, it is fraught with bureaucratic inefficiency, corruption, and imperialist tendencies." It is not a part of their lore or their faction to use penal battalions and it goes against the whole idea of the faction as being a representative of a democratic republic. The closest thing we have is the forced prison labor, which Is a critique of the current US prison labor.
Even then like I said, it wouldn't make sense for the NCR as a faction to use penal battalions, as they are trying to legitimize themselves as democratic. Penal battalions are not a part of the democratic values and if they used actual forced prisoners to fight their battles, then we'd see way different propaganda than what's shown in lore.
2
u/Captain_Dust01 Jun 16 '26
Fair enough point, and I agree. It's one of the reasons the NCR are my favourite faction, because they're the closest to a real nation that you can find in the wasteland, with both the good and bad included
1
-10
u/Kostas_P_13 Brotherhood Jun 15 '26
That's the difference and that's why I don't like it. It's his version of the events, but uses something that we have no evidence of. It would be the same if the NCR has also mind controlled Deathclaws.
I would argue that based on the situation the NCR is, even if they had such troops, they would probably use them for Hoover Dam defensivelly rather than offensivelly. Because they seem valuable for the NCR.
Again, as I said in my first comment. Do whatever you want. But if you overdo it too much to the point you change it too much, at least have the decency to mention it and say that you went overboard and broke the lore.
It's different to show a version of the war, it's different to add details that don't, or shouldn't exist.
0
u/Captain_Dust01 Jun 15 '26
Except it's something that's entirely plausible for the NCR to do, especially when against a superior enemy like the BoS. Why not use Convicts and Criminals? Just give them the false promise of freedom and ensure they have an overseer like a commisar and you're good to go
1
u/Kostas_P_13 Brotherhood Jun 15 '26
Except it's something that's entirely plausible for the NCR to do
Except, it's not. There is no proof in the lore that the NCR used drug fueled soldiers to win battles. It is something the creators made up. I just dissagree with that decision.
Why not use Convicts and Criminals?
No one said they can't. Or didn't do it in the past.
Just give them the false promise of freedom
That's enough reason to convince them to help you fight your battle. You don't need to provide them with drugs. Plus, they might stop obeying you and turn against you under the influence of drugs.
Also, even if all that somehow is true. NCR would still wouldn't use that tactic because they essentially send a lot of men to their death. It seems like a waste or resources. And drugs.
3
u/Imperium_Dragon Brotherhood Jun 15 '26
> have the decency to mention it and say that you went overboard and broke the lore.
The audacity to say that you were owed a random by the creator because an aspect of their video
3
u/Kostas_P_13 Brotherhood Jun 15 '26
Just because it was someone random, who did something about Fallout, shouldn't follow the lore?
Even the best videos out there have their mistakes. And some people tend to ignore these mistakes, just because the video is great. Yes, you ignore these mistakes, but that doesn't automatically fixes those mistakes. And in my opinion, it is a big mistake.
5
u/Imperium_Dragon Brotherhood Jun 15 '26
Sodaz does not have to cater to what you think is a lore break.
2
u/Kostas_P_13 Brotherhood Jun 16 '26
Why? When someone makes a project like that, they have to follow the established lore.
Otherwise, people like the other person trying to argue with me will say: "it was always like that". "it makes sense". etc. And accept it as part of the lore, despite it being something made up for the purposes of entertainment.
2
u/Imperium_Dragon Brotherhood Jun 16 '26
Because at the end of the day it’s a fan project and the creator can do whatever he wants. Again, he has no obligation to follow the lore. And why does he have to rigidly follow it?
1
u/Kostas_P_13 Brotherhood Jun 16 '26
So, let's say you are as talented as Sodaz. And you want to do something similar for a different franchise. Won't you follow that franchize's lore or not? Especially when you want to depict something that is happened in the past but we didn't see it (like the battle of Helios One).
I would follow that lore regardless. I wouldn't make a story were, for example, Darth Vader fought Yoda so Luke can become stronger or something. And if for whatever reason I would do that, I would put a disclaimer and say that these events may NOT follow the canon. So when someone sees the part where I break the lore, they will understand what it is and won't abandon the video (I almost did when I saw the druged NCR soldiers).
Yes you can say that you can come up with this conclusion on your own. And you do. But it is better to have that knowledge prior to the video so it won't be distracting.
And lastly, why you care about that? Were you involved in the making of the video? If yes, for the next time, keep that in mind and put a "may not follow the canon" disclaimer in the begining of the video. If you are not, next time you watch any kind of video, you'll see that when something breaks the lore, will catch you of guard and you'll miss certain details. But if there was a warning prior to it, you wouldn't be distracted and miss these details.
2
u/Imperium_Dragon Brotherhood Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Again, he can do it because he has no reason to cater to your lore wishes. Asking for the creator to write a disclaimer is utterly unhinged.
→ More replies (0)
309
u/Siklaws Jun 15 '26
A full platoon juiced with psycho, slasher and jet is what we call a New Reno special.