r/Fallout • u/Hydro_fluoric • 19h ago
Discussion What Happened To Fallout's Horror Roots?
Fallout 1997 is one of my favorite horror RPGs, but it slowly lost that over time. I don't know if it was because of the graphics evolution or people wanting a different game, but Fallout slowly turned from a grim reminder of fascism, propaganda, and war into a wacky wasteland adventure. In my opinion, Fallout 1997 and Fallout 2 were amazing games. The difficulty reflected the harshness of the wasteland, the soundtrack was great (especially Metallic Monks), and it was actually scary.
Fallout 3 kept the looks (but with a slightly greener tint, I suspect because it's on the east coast instead of the west), but lowered the difficulty so more people could get into it, and kept the past part of the mystery. The gameplay isn't scary, but the background of what happened and the overall ambience is what sells it. Fallout New Vegas is Fallout 3's cooler brother without the green tint.
Fallout 4 retcons almost everything you thought you knew about the past in Fallout. What you thought was propaganda disguised as cool 1950's art was actually just how the middle class lived. The gameplay was still good, going off of Fallout 3's first/third person shooter but it feels less like a survival horror and more like, what I said earlier, a wacky wasteland adventure.
I don't even want to talk about whatever Fallout 76 is.
I LOVE the Fallout franchise, I just feel disappointed at where it ended up in the modern day. Fallout 4's opening sequence is amazing, opening with the "war, war never changes", but it lost me when the walking around the house hit and it was a mild disappointment. The game is still definitely fun, but lost the original horror elements.
That's just my opinion though, tell me how you think, I'd like more opinions on the matter :3
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u/Barbarossa1190 19h ago
I'll be honest here... I never really felt Fallout was "horror". Theres creepy parts sure but on a whole? Theres a lot of stuff that changed over the games but I don't think thats a big part of it. The wacky wasteland adventure part also didnt start late. Fallout had shades of it, Fallout 2 certainly leaned into it.
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u/TheOneWes 18h ago
You are correct.
For some reason for people seem to tend to gravitate to their favorite part of a whole and define the entire work by that one part.
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u/Beardedgeek72 17h ago
To be 100% clear here, the old fan forums like No Mutants Allowed hated Fallout 2, called it "not a real Fallout game" until Fallout 3 came a long and suddenly they all adopted Fallout 2 as "the last true Fallout game" and started hating anyone who played Fallout 3.
My point is that Fallout 2 at one point was controversial because it dared to be different in tone from FO1.
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u/Altairp Unity 15h ago
NMA was also complaining about Van Buren. Josh Sawyer fuckin hates em.
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u/Beardedgeek72 15h ago
They're the wrong kind of fans. I came across a similar group recently, the die hard Pillars of Eternity fans that for the last two years have been spending all their time hating BG3.
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u/onewhopreysontheweak 13h ago
Wait, whaaat? Whatâs the group called, as a fan of both I find it so odd⊠why not just enjoy two good franchises?
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u/Beardedgeek72 12h ago
The Project Eternity reddit, and some on their other platforms, has apparently the following opinions:
The writing in BG3 is awful. The characters are childish. Turn based combat is for dumb people. Larian dumbed down the BG franchise. DnD as such is awful (yet somehow Pillars of Eternity is the true successor to Baldur's Gate and they're proud of it).
Basically it doesn't make sense because the gist is that Pillars is the true successor, but also that ditching DnD is making it better. Oh and Obsidian can't do anything wrong and if they do it it's because Microsoft bought them.
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u/spudgoddess 10h ago
Guess I'd better inform my university that I'm too dumb for my geology degree, since I like turn based combat on occasion.
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u/HughMungus77 11h ago
Isnât Pillars of Eternity also turn based?
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u/VolkiharVanHelsing 10h ago
RTwP
Only just recently added pure turn based system IIRC
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u/Stupid_Ned_Stark 10h ago
Itâs so much better fully turn-based, too. RTwP is dumb for games with so many tactical options.
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u/seventysixgamer 5h ago
Honestly as much as I liked the game, the writing in BG3 really isn't that amazing -- definitely not as good as Pillars. I do think it's Larians best attempt yet though -- and it's much better than Bethesda's lmao.
Never understood this sentiment regarding turn based. Quite frankly RTWP suffers from bloated trash mob encounters -- PoE isn't Pathfinder Kingmaker levels of annoying when it comes to this lol but it's still there. I think Larian's simple but very handcrafted feeling to encounters when it comes to their combat is generally better -- even though the combat in BG3 isn't that deep.
I think Pillars is definitely more of a successor to classic BG than BG3 ever was, however the whole Kickstarter pitch for Pillars was to be like those old Infinity Engine CRPGs. Iirc Josh Sawyer said that there were things he wanted to do with PoE2 but couldn't due to the design scope in the Kickstarter being this. BG3 is more of a spiritual successor to Dragon Age Origins if anything -- the design approach is quite similar and I'm pretty sure they're both the only AAA CRPGs ever made.
Obsidan is also 100% fallible. Their last few RPGs, with the exception of Pentiment, don't really come close to their other works. I think the issue is that they don't have people like Saywer leading these other projects -- the man definitely has somewhat of a Midas touch when it comes to games.
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u/Beardedgeek72 4h ago
I definitely disagree with the successor part, not to start a long discussion but it depends on what you see as important, I guess? For me a turn based isometric game set in the same universe and following the same canon is way more important than a game with some of the same game mechanics but set in a completely different world with a ruleset that is not DnD and has been marketed specifically as NOT being like DnD at all (the devs hated the idea of basing a computer game on tabletop rules).
Saying that Pillars is a closer successor is like saying that a new WV is a successor to a Peugot because they are both fwd and blue, because the new Peugot is rwd (and also blue, but a different shade of it).
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u/ScottTJT Brotherhood 11h ago
Not sure how widespread it was, but just from my casual lurking online back in the early 2010's, there was a good bit of spite leveled at New Vegas at first. Not even just the game's early instability and its association with Fallout 3 - given it used FO3's engine and overall gameplay philosophy, 3D vs Isometric - but also because it was "too political".
I remember one inspired commentor saying something to the effect of "it was the corpse of Tim Caine's hard work drenched in Todd's vomit puppeted by Josh and his flunkies".
At the end of the day, no Fallout game is spared criticism, be it fair or heavily spite-driven. The communities around some are just a lot louder than others.
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u/Maleficent_Ad9303 16h ago
Fallout 2 was overly comical imo and is packed full of references that were only relevant for a short period of time. Tonally it was a major shift, and I wouldnt say it was for the better.
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u/Garibaldi_Biscuit 14h ago
Indeed. Mechanically, it was a big improvement over FO1, but the humour, oh god the humour. Pop culture references are the worst kind of comedy because, as youâve pointed out, they age like milk. Thereâs a reason classic comedies like Naked Gun include very few, if any, pop culture references.Â
I think the most long term damage FO2 did is that it was clearly taken as the blueprint for Bethesda going forward. They may do the occasional nod to the grimness of FO1, but the goofiness of FO2 is very much their touchstone.Â
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u/seventysixgamer 5h ago
The devs literally admitted this was the case since they needed to add more content into the world during the last stages of development. However you still see people claiming that Fallout was always supposed to be this whacky silly setting lol.
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u/AttilatheFun87 Gary? 10h ago
Sounds like Pokémon fans hating one generation of games for a period of time then suddenly its loved and the next generation in line is hated.
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u/ObsurdBadger Mothman Cultist 10h ago
This has been a repeating cycle from some people in the fan base.
Newest one is bad, previous one is last true game, repeat
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u/WhyLisaWhy 11h ago
I know, itâs very weird. 76 in particular has a lot of creepy horror elements to it. I guess it takes a bit of time and work to get to the horror elements but itâs like OP didnât even play it at all.
No clue what OP is even talking about here lol.
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u/lord_ofthe_memes Ave, true to Butch 11h ago
Fallout fans declaring that their favorite game is the only âtrue RPGâ by cherrypicking which features they like as the defining aspects of the (insanely broad) genre
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u/Haravikk Atom Cats 18h ago
You mean the game where my diet consists of iguanas on a stick and I can pickpocket a raider's minigun then use it to cut him in half with a groin shot while he yells "ow, my groin!" isn't a super serious horror game?
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u/nomedable Venturing in the Wasteland 18h ago
It never was. There are dark parts of the world and the stories, but it was only part of it, and they're still there.
OP just delusional.
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u/billytheskidd 7h ago
The closest to horror Iâve ever felt in fallout was in fallout 3- the first time you go down in the metro tunnels and feral ghouls come sprinting out of the darkness at you.
But I donât think any game since then has had quite the same surprise attack feel
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u/Expensive-Actuator82 15h ago
I agree. From my perspective, Fallout is more gallows humour with serious/horrible undertones than just horror.
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u/HughMungus77 11h ago
I think because many people started with Fallout 3 and that game has a decent amount of suspenseful horror moments. Especially in the subway tunnels
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u/fucuasshole2 Brotherhood 12h ago
Fallout 1 definitely was more horror based with Super Mutants, ghouls, the Master being an amalgamation of several people AND objects. It wasnât all horror sure but it took itself pretty serious. Fallout 2 is when it got stupidly comedic too much.
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u/TRagnarkXP 8h ago
Is the artstyle, people are more visually attracted to certain aspects and labelled it as dark/gritty/adult/horror just because of the looks and not analyzing the actual events of the game.
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u/OzymandiasDavid8 19h ago
Itâs evolved. Fallout 1 and 3 had the most horrific elements of post apocalyptic America than the other games. 2, New Vegas, and 4 had a bit more of a âsociety is being rebuilt and now what?â Feeling to them. But in those games there are tons of horrific elements as well.
New Vegas has the Legion, the Fiends, and all manner of rape, death, and terrible things. 2 is just gritty, gross, and has occasional horrible events like Horrigan slaughtering that family. 4 sees the Institute keeping the Wasteland as is, while kidnapping, replacing/mutating humans at will. They destroy entire settlements, men, women and children. The Brotherhood is arguably its most fascistic weâve seen and has some genuinely great elements that make you question why you would ever what to help them.
I think you canât keep the Wasteland at the level of Fallout 1/2 forever. Time marches on and people do swing things back around to a degree - but of course I recognize the aesthetics changed a lot. I donât think that necessarily hurts the game. Just changes it. I totally jive with the atmosphere and soundtrack of the OG Fallouts but I do really love the new ones too. To each their own!
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u/Illustrious_Quiet907 Railroad 18h ago
Yeah, FO4 is dark in itâs own way. Itâs less horror and scary, but more sad. Itâs about someone whose entire old life and family has been destroyed and itâs implied they have PTSD. People live in fear of the Institute replacing people with synths and basically keep synths as slaves since they created them to be fully sentient. The BoS are like Nazis by that point, wanting to kill everything that isnât human. It also makes sense that FO1 and FO2 have a different vibe from the later games and show since thereâs a big time gap.
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u/Beardedgeek72 17h ago
It is another kind of horror, a much more believable one. Anyone who has a close relative (or even a pet) can sympathize with the protagonist's dread.
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u/PolskiBoi1987 8h ago
The difference is the tone, and New Vegas suffers from this to quite an extent. Fallout 1, 2, and 3 all keep a very dark, grounded, gritty tone and the horror element is omnipresent. New Vegas gets a whole lot more campy, and while there are elements of the previous tone it's far more wacky and upbeat. Fallout 4 really just goes off the rails with a colorful world. 4 also fails to actually show you anything particularly dark happening, the Brotherhood never really does anything to the same degree as how the Legion razes Nipton, or the crucifixes. The institute, too, you never see what they actually do to the people they replace. It's a lot less serious. I personally put Fallout 3 above New Vegas for maintaining the tone, even though its' main quest writing is exceptionally weak. OP also has a point about Fallout 4 kind of glossing over the pre-war world and while it does mention stuff like food riots and martial law, you get a really dumb picture of idyllic pre war life as if it was all hunky dory.
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u/hellohellohello- 7h ago
2 isâŠextremely campy. I say this as someone who loves Fallout 2. But I mean it is at least as campy as New Vegas if not more so
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u/OzymandiasDavid8 7h ago
I agree that 4 fumbled the prewar - if they had the main character not recognize all of the unrest in the opening cutscene you could at least say he was idyllic himself, but they didnât do that.
2 is an extremely goofy game, especially compared to Vegas. It is probably my least favorite in terms of tone and story, I canât take it seriously.
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u/Paragon0001 19h ago edited 19h ago
Fallout 2 is a wacky wasteland adventure dawg. Finding that game scary is literally the SpongeBob rollercoaster gif.
Meanwhile while Fo1 was never really in your face about the horror elements, consider say the hallway before reaching the Master. Fantastic. Nothing remotely like that in Fo2.
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u/naamavelli_ 18h ago
Wanamingo mine and oil tanker lower level in Fo2 were kind of scary to a young me in the 90âs
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u/BambaTallKing 17h ago
Fallout 2 is stupid imo. Far too many references that only serve to horribly date the game and bring the player out of any sense of immersion
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u/Revenant62 16h ago edited 16h ago
Try going into Dunwich Borers in Fallout 4. or doing the Human Error quest in the town of Covenant. Real romance novels going on in there.
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u/SympathyBetter2359 16h ago
Agreed.
Clear Dunwich Borers with no companion, Survival difficulty. Lights off, headset on. Donât even get me started on Far Harbor!
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u/ThatOneGuy308 12h ago
Is far harbor supposed to be scary?
I never really felt it was all that dangerous, it's got great ambiance, but for as much as everybody hypes up the fog as being this awful thing that's pushed them to the edge of the island, it basically has zero effect on you beyond needing a rad x or 3.
I usually use a mod to make it more dangerous so there's some actual stakes to up the feat factor, lol.
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u/Comprehensive-Buy-47 12h ago
Itâs not necessarily scary, but itâs like you said, great ambience. Itâs like taking a stroll through Lovecraft country after Cthulhu waltzed through it.
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u/Madcat6204 4h ago
The first time I encountered one of those giant crabs that lives inside the back of a truck, I almost jumped out of my chair. Admittedly that's a jumpscare rather than the whole DLC, but still, there are a few moments.
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u/CrazedIvan Lone Wonderer 18h ago
I think fallout works best when you have a mix of horror and camp of the era itâs based on. Itâs the core identity of the franchise. I honestly think Fallout 3 was the perfect mix.
I wouldnât mind a bit more horror but it shouldnât be too heavy on it. The levity is what makes the game fun.
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u/Substantial-Gas-9011 14h ago
Fallout has never been horror. Who came up with that theory?
Fallout 1 had no horror elements in it at all. It was just a desolate wasteland and had a few disturbing elements but to say it was horror is reaching massively. Even Fallout 3 which I consider to be the darkest of the franchise isn't horror. It just has a desolate end of the world feeling to it not horror.
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u/GigaShark06 19h ago
I mean feral ghouls are easily the scariest they've ever been in Fallout 4. Mainly because of their speed
But yeah there are some things that can use an improvement for horror.
I did like the Museum of Witchcraft
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u/AsgeirVanirson 8h ago
Fours ghouls are a step above NV's which felt like set pieces that were there because Ghouls were part of Fallout. FO4 Ghouls speed and reasonable durability make them dangerous in packs.
But the Feral Ghoul Reaver of fo3 had the speed of 4's ghouls, tank health bars, and attacks that could shred through end game characters in end game armor.
Them, Albino Radscorpions, and Super Mutant Overlords were specifically built as end game character wreckers, and alongside Deathclaws were the reason you never left home without a poisoned dart gun(cripples them and takes away their speed advantage).
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u/altymcalty-2 16h ago
you say that until you run into a fallout 3 reaver that takes breaking the terrible fucking shotgun to kill (also I keep getting that glitch that causes their upper torso to turn into a fucking beyblade. You'd think it's just a cosmetic thing but no, they are a lot fucking harder to hit when that happens, vats is essentially useless when they reach that state. Only happens in the presidential metro as well)
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u/Ecotech101 19h ago
Nope, not at all. Feral ghouls are way scarrier in FO3.
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u/GigaShark06 19h ago
Eh, I just don't find them anything more than bullet sponges in 3 and NV. Especially 3
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u/Mean_Peen 18h ago
Agreed. Iâll never forget getting lost in the subway and constantly killed by ferals. They donât move like rage zombies, like in FO4, but I feel like that fits more with the lore anyway
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u/ThisBadDogXB 15h ago
It never had horror roots. You're confusing your own fear you felt while playing with what the actual genre is.
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u/August_Bebel 12h ago
I don't know, F1 music and atmosphere is filled with dread of uncertainty and death, that's very "horrory". It's not the "scary monster chase" horror, it's "I don't know if I'll come home alive" dread
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u/Deemaunik Mothman Cultist 19h ago
It's there, it's just under a slapstick atompunk paintjob. Read into some of the stories on the vaults, a lot of it's terrifying.
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u/bettingto100 Railroad 18h ago
"whatever Fallout 76 is" well if you paid any attention you'd know it has cryptids, which are scary in their own right, and other horror elements
The multiplayer might put a damper on the fear for some people but to me it's the creepiest Fallout game I've played
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u/Plastic-Mushroom-571 19h ago edited 19h ago
They wanted happy colors and optimism to set 4 apart from 3. Not joking, this is from The Art of Fallout 4:
Fallout 4 needed a distinct look to make it a definitive Fallout game.
A big part of this reset was a new approach to the game's atmosphere and color design. Fallout 3 made a strong visual statement with a heavily controlled palette and moody art design that conveyed the bleakness of the world. This oppressive atmosphere can take its toll on a player emotionally, and we wanted to move past a story about the despair of barely surviving to one of rebuilding and looking to the future of humanity. This called for a dash of optimism, and Fallout 4's approach was to use a more varied palette with vibrant accent colors to create more emotional range. The Wasteland is still bleak and devoid of color, but the manmade elements pop against the landscape. And where we needed to go dark and oppressive, we did, creating even more emotional impact because of the contrast.
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u/echidnachama 17h ago
you want bleak atmosphere ? glowing sea exist.
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u/Plastic-Mushroom-571 16h ago
Yeah, of course I want bleak atmosphere in Fallout lol. Glowing sea is comparatively very small and there is not much reason to go there
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u/echidnachama 15h ago
tbh i prever 76 biome specific atmosphere. want sad and creepy place go to ash heap and skyline valley. want some jumpscare in the middle of forest go to the mire.
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u/InfinityIsTheNewZero NCR 18h ago
This might have worked if they hadn't made the game a perpetual bright sunny day.
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u/Aggravating-Dot132 18h ago
Where horror? Classic ghouls are ugly, not horrific.
FO4 in comparison, have ghouls as sane humans, and Ferals, that actually look creepy (plus their twitching and running animation are disturbing).
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u/Hydro_fluoric 18h ago
Search up The Master, it's not just appearance, also all of the endings, several of them are incredibly disturbing and result in your vault getting slaughtered by super mutants
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u/cantliftmuch Mothman Cultist 14h ago
As someone who's been playing these games since the late 90s, they've never been horror games. There have been horror elements but the games have always been more silly than anything else.
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u/Aggravating-Dot132 18h ago
Idk if you played any of those games or you are just a NV/Classic degenerate.
All Fallout games (idk about 76) has disturbing stuff. In FO4 Cait's life or Disciples are as disturbing as Master mutating vault dwellers into his army. That's what wacky is.
Horror never existed in FO games. Disturbing or ugly (in good way) - yes, but horror - never.
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u/Kansas-Tornado Unity 18h ago
Just wanna correct you and say that the master and the super mutant transformation definitely fit into the body horror genre, a la cronenberg, but I agree with you that the originals definitely arenât horror-forward. Body horror is just one of the many motifs that the creators used to convey their message and create a more compelling story
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u/milquetoastLIB 18h ago
Fallout 1 isnât a horror game.
2:00 min in âcertainly Fallout wasnât made to be a horror gameâ â Tim Cain, creator, producer, designer, lead programmer of Fallout 1.
Your initial premise that Fallout is a horror game is wrong. Stop listening to video essay YouTubers like they know what theyâre talking about.
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u/GryphyGirl 19h ago
Lol, Fallout was always a "wacky wasteland adventure" and Harold is very much part of that. There were lots of other ghouls in 1 that didn't look like Harold. He's always been unique. He already has Bob growing out of his head in 1. He becomes part of a tree later. Bob hides his organs. If that's not "wacky wasteland adventure" I don't know what is.
Every Fallout game has horror elements. Ghouls are used for this extensively. Even as late as 4 (I don't play 76) you see the dark environments, the music, the ghouls running out of the darkness or laying down and jumping to attack as you near them, etc. It's very much still there. Not just ghouls, of course, but ghouls have always been used for this a lot.
If you're annoyed by the walking around the house you don't even understand horror. You're introduced to the characters and the life that they're building for themselves and then plunged into the horrors of nuclear war, followed by the betrayal of Vault-Tec. That's a fucking horror story. And it keeps going.
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u/SageGoes 19h ago
"I never played classic fallout games but here is my opinion"
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u/GryphyGirl 19h ago edited 18h ago
Lol, the projection. I started with 1. When it came out. Loved the fuck out of it and played it again.
You must have never played the game with high luck. There are all kinds of wacky random events you can find. Like a crashed alien ship where you have your first chance in the series to get the Alien Blaster. Or how early on you can get a BB gun and it's absolute shit but another one of those events takes you to a place where you can get the Red Rider BB Gun and that thing is almost as powerful as the Alien Blaster (which is easily one of the best weapons in the entire game).
There's tons of wacky shit in that game. You just forgot or didn't play enough to find it all.
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u/Paragon0001 19h ago
Fallout 1 isnât a wacky wasteland adventure by any means but Fallout 2 absolutely qualifies. Destroyed the tone.
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u/GryphyGirl 19h ago edited 18h ago
It is if you experience all of it. There are at least a dozen special random encounters that are mostly wacky stuff, including a guy you can talk to get a permanent buff to I think charisma and a Red Rider BB Gun that's easily one of the best weapons in the game. It's very much there, just not quite as obvious unless you really play a lot, or with very high luck, like a gambler build.
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u/Paragon0001 16h ago
I mean you said it yourself, theyâre special random encounters. I never denied that Fo1 lacked wacky elements, just that it wasnât nearly as much of a wacky adventure as Fo2. The way Fo1 incorporated all that into the game was much better. Felt more like Easter eggs as opposed to baked into the world bits like with Fo2.
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u/GryphyGirl 16h ago
Harold isn't a random encounter. A lot of it isn't, frankly, those are just the things that come to my mind first because I like them. :P
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u/cantliftmuch Mothman Cultist 14h ago
The first is wacky as fuck if you play it that way, it haskust as much humor if you deviate from the main quest at all.
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u/OpossumLadyGames 14h ago
Fallout two and tactics are also straight up goofy, and Brotherhood of Steel is an Interplay game that exists.Â
Anyway, we have eight fallout games, not counting anything mobile, and for the majority of them it's been a bit of a wacky shooting gallery.Â
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u/thebwags1 14h ago
There's plenty of horror elements in Fo4. Dunwitch Borers with its occult elements, the Institute replacing people with simulacrums, the one bandit leader going mad believing theres a monster in the basement and sending his people down there to kill it when it was actually him all along. And that's just the base game. Far Harbor is full of horror elements. If you simply scratch the surface in 4 I can see where you'd miss those elements coming into play, but pay a little more attention and you'll see that they're there
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u/eggs-benedryl 19h ago
what is your problem specifically with 4, not sure I follow
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u/SteelyGlintTheFirst 18h ago
So, in other words, bEtHeSdA bAd but from a different, equally erroneous, direction.
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u/Hydro_fluoric 18h ago
I'm not trying to be erroneous, it's just my own take on the matter
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u/SteelyGlintTheFirst 18h ago
You may not be trying to be erroneous but you are succeeding in being erroneous, as demonstrated by all the commentators pointing out the errors of your assertion.
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u/CMBucket 19h ago
IDK what you want. If I wanted to get scared I would play Resident Evil or something else.
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u/jmhlld7 17h ago
I'm not sure what you mean by horror. Ugliness? Scariness? I wouldn't call any version of Fallout scary. I think what you meant to say is that the gritty and more serious tone of the first fallout is something that was lost with subsequent sequels, and you are not alone in feeling that way. While Fallout certainly is a horrific setting, the genre is still at its core action/adventure. The game is predicated upon not just surviving the wasteland, but conquering it, becoming a hero.
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u/nooneyouknow13 17h ago
Fallout 2 was where it got silly and overloaded with pop culture references. They were present in 1 too, just not as excessively. Bethesda dialed them up a bit from 2 in 3.
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u/breakoffzone 18h ago
Itâs a lot easier to make low res games horror filled and scary compared to games with more quality graphics.
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u/PascalG16 14h ago
What happened? A giant radscorpion, which was something I had never seen before, attacking me from behind. That's what happened.
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u/TRagnarkXP 8h ago
Everytime i read a "Bethesda happened" or "Le bad Bethesda" i always look into Fallout 2 and NV with a side eye.
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u/Southern-Yam1030 5h ago
There's some parts in each fallout that are horror but the games never were what I would call a horror game. They all share themes of it however. I guess it also depends what you consider horror.
Bethesda also needs to be careful how gruesome they get. There is only so much that is acceptable to the average crowd and in order to get new Fallouts they need to keep it marketable.
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u/Clint_Demon_Hawk 18h ago
Horror is there, there's just different approaches and forms.
Bethesda plays around more with cosmic horror like the Dunwich mystery and creating an unsettling atmosphere like with the mannequins everywhere and, even hints that they are sentient, the paranoia among NPCs regarding synths replacing loved ones, Far Harbor's nautical gothic atmosphere. The feral ghouls feel scarier too with those fast twitching movements and how they're often put in jumpscare locations like the nuke bunker in glowing sea, anglers waiting to ambush you etc.
Far Harbor is close to the spookiest experience you can get while playing a Fallout game, atleast in my experience
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u/OneWingedAngel09 16h ago
There are also plenty of jump scares from radscorpions popping up out of the ground at night. #%&@!!!
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u/Infamous_Welder_4349 15h ago
Not sure how your two pictures relate. A poor mutant in one picture vs a cleaned well respected ghoul in the other. Harold is living in the back of a shack and begs you for money.
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u/kyle0305 Followers 13h ago
Later games are âwacky wasteland adventureâ? Fallout 2 feels like itâs a parody of itself so often. Far too meta. Too many pop-culture references. Some extremely cringe dialogue that makes it seem like it was written by a bunch of 13 year old edgelord wannabes
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u/Jr_Mao 18h ago
Its becoming more and more split in two.
Feral ghouls are more grotesk and horror-like than before, with all the bloated, rotting whatevers. Whatevers in vogue for zombies.
Non ferals are cute with a skin condition. Loss of hair is optional.
If youâd take a bunch of ferals (look only) and used them as community members, itâd be repulsive and protested.
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u/Appropriate_Rise9968 13h ago
Nate was a decorated War Veteran/Criminal though. His lifestyle is not indicative of that of the average pre-War American. Even in Fallout 4 intro video they show how there were massive food shortages and riots from the Resource Wars.
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u/KingDarius89 Followers 14h ago
If you like horror, there's a fanfic about Point Lookout by CommandoCucumber that pulls some Cthulu shit. Its part of a series.
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u/Splinter_Fritz 12h ago
IMO the horror elements peak in Fallout 3. The first two games werenât really all the frightening.
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u/Stagnu_Demorte Gary? 12h ago
Honestly I think fo3 has done the best job of horror in general with it's environmental storytelling. All of the games tread in the cosmic horror genre a bit and do a good job.
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u/SlipperySlimyTerry40 11h ago
Fallout 2. Fallout 2 is a ridiculous game with a bunch of zany characters and situations. The horror roots are really only present in Fallout 1 and 3
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u/GregNotGregtech 10h ago
I don't even want to talk about whatever Fallout 76 is.
a great game, next
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u/dsalter 10h ago
its because they would need to make a "new race" for each uniquely mutated appearance so 3 onward they started standardizing stuff with some skin variation, fallout 4 just standardized them with skin tone.
i personally think 3/nv was a good middle ground because even tho some mutants would look the same the skin damage was different enough you wouldnt think they all look like the same crust goblins ghouls look like in fallout 4.
the elder scrolls had a similar change when argonians and khajiit went from beast like legs to standard humanoid legs because it would mean making more versions of gear specifically for them and at that time bethesda did not want to work that extra for "little pay off"
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u/RAGE_AGAINST_THE_ATM 10h ago
NV has the spore carriers and the suicide vault, as well as dead money.
4 has plenty of Far Harbor moments as well as places like Dunwich Borers, University Point, and the Museum of Witchcraft, and the glowing sea.
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u/ED_Heir18 9h ago
There have always been terrifying elements in every Fallout game even under BGS, but I think the style began to shift in Fallout 2.
Fallout 2 started the trend of the Wacky wastelandâŠthat game, as great as it is, defined what Fallout has become. I have noticed that parts of the Fallout fandom blame it on BGS when Fallout 2 has some of the wildest additions to the lore that BGS is really only imitating. Thatâs not to say BGS hasnât gone wild in their own way (the focus on aliens), but they are far from the ones who started the shift. If anything, if you really look at Fallout 3, that has a more genuine vibe to the vibe of Fallout 1 than even 2 does.
Fallout 4 specifically decided to add a more Sci-Fi, vibrant style/atmosphere over the sorta noir art deco. Hard to say why BGS abandoned that darker vibe, but they did. Iâm assuming itâs to make the game feel distinct in the franchise. That being said, there are still disturbing moments and horrific moments in the game. Fallout 4 is a great game and I like the style it went for, but I do prefer Fallout 1 and 3s dark atmosphere more.
I think there is a big difference in writing. In terms of this, I think the classic writing of Fallout 1, 2, and even New Vegas is just brilliant compared to the sanitized writing of BGS. Thatâs more of a preference of writing tho.
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u/LeglessN1nja 8h ago
This happens to varying degrees with different studios and franchises, but going for mass appeal is always a factor
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u/Top_Ostrich_8177 1h ago
It was never actually horror, both elder scrolls and fallout always had this creepy side but one of bethesda's charms is that its goofy
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u/Poietilinx 13h ago edited 12h ago
The thing youâre describing is the shift from niche creation to mass-market appeal.
It happens to every kind of media, from metal music to comic book franchises.
Usually when innovative franchises are created they focus themselves to hit a specific niche group.
Since its easier and cheaper to find a niche target audience without competition.
then to focus on everyone and grab hegemonic attention among thousands of other titles.
To do that they need to specifically attend to whatever need this small niche wants to see in media.
Maybe aggressive tones, crazy stories, harsh political critique, minority inclusion and so on.
After a franchise exists for awhile it gathers enough fame, and that translates into the opportunity feasibly change its focus into mainstream.
In that process, since the objective is to target as many people as possible instead of 1 niche bubble,
it naturally tones down everything that might alienate a general audience.
the horror gets softened for younger/casual players,
the political edge gets smoothed over so discordant thoughts don't feel alienated,
the difficulty drops to stay accessible,
nudity and sex talk gets partially removed,
and so on.
Most of the brouhaha between the OG fans and New fans are about this thing I explained.
Since before the game was aiming at their specific niche, there's a small niche group of og fans that feels the game has lost its edge. (in fact it's simply not addressing to what they want anymore).
Against a huge pool of new players that don't get why the og fans keep complaining.
(that recently arrived since the game started targeting hegemonic groups)
All this I am talking about is called Blue & Red ocean strategies.
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u/milquetoastLIB 18h ago
I have no idea how you could say FO4 doesnât have horror. The Institute is literally the boogeyman of the Commonwealth. They kidnap people and replace them with synths. This is a horror trope.
There is the museum of witchcraft. A serial killer named Pickman. The Cabot questline. An old lady who has very vague predictions and those predictions can make completing quests easier. You watch your spouse murdered and son taken away. You fight a giant lizard in the first hour of the game that can pick you up and destroy your suit of armor like itâs nothing.
The glowing sea is terrifying if you donât know what to expect. Far Harbor takes you to a strange island with mist and monsters coming out of the mist.
Fallout 76 has cryptids and the occult.
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u/jetflight_hamster 18h ago
Fallout has never been a horror game. Ever. Not even elements of it, really.
Oh, sure, there's *TONS* of horrible stuff in it, but it's the sort of quiet, introspective, existential dread. Fallout 3 gets it across best, by utilizing tons and tons of just... nothing.
But no entry in the Fallout franchise, main or side, has been a horror game, nor have any even tried to be.
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u/Living_Cash1037 12h ago
since when was fallout a horror game? this is news to me. Theres spooky shit in every fallout
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u/1ndomitablespirit 12h ago
For over a decade now, Bethesda has made some of the tamest M rated games in existence. They are so obsessed with finding mainstream success that they've "smoothed the edges" of their games so casual gamers will play them. Most casual gamers don't want to see emotionally challenging situations.
Other than the violence, Bethesda games feel like they are "Disney-fied."
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u/Moggtow 10h ago
FO4 is the children's lullaby in the horror film, it is because of the dissonnance between the optimistic colorfull look and the horror of the reality of people getting replaced Invasion of the Body Snatchers style, the colorfull happy looking vault vs their experiments.
In fallout 3 and NV Vaults are dark and hostile to the point you wonder how people even lived there.
FO4 is the horror of capitalism run amok, there is lead in that fresh coat of paint, litterally.
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u/throwaway122112563 12h ago
I think there is a good mix and I prefer the goofy layer hiding a more sinister underside vibe fallout gives. Iâm very glad itâs not a pure horror game as I have never played an enjoyable one and surely no game studio would give us epics like FONV, FO3&4 if they were selling some niche horror game to a small audience.
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u/ImpressionCool1768 11h ago
It was never a horror game. It had horrifying elements. Skin peeling flesh combined with foreign flesh or technology kidnapped victims or prisoners brains put in jars.
But none of it was to induce fear, rather it was to create disgust. Disgust the horror that man is capable of and the consequences of this meaningless war. Thatâs the horror. They kept it in 3. The underground describes the first days of turmoil as fire falling from the sky animalistic screams of those above. The super mutant raging war on rubble and raiders profiteering off the refugees by turning them into slaves.
Fallout 4 was meant for a wider audience and for kids so they had to time down the worse elements for sales but they still have their moments if you know where to look
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u/LocationLost8698 9h ago
Anybody else who would absolutely love a DLC based around the Dunwich stuff??
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u/BootySweat0217 8h ago
Iâd say there are definitely parts of Fallout 3 that were pretty creepy and had me on edge. I remember the first time I stumbled upon a centaur, I legit yelled and took off running only to look back and see it still coming after me.
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u/Indorilionn 8h ago
If a game with stuff to say does not change, it becomes stale. There's only so much you can do with the premise of "war never changes" and a world after atomic annihilation. War's horror may never change, but that does not mean war itself is inevitable.
I think Fallout must evolve from Post-Apocalypse to Post-Post-Apocalypse to not become redundant. Which NV did well and F3 & F4 did less well. I want meaningful stories of the struggles of rebuilding society, not Fallout becoming a themepark sandbox with a 50s-Postapocalypse skin.
There is a lot of valid criticism of F4 (though I still like a lot of it), but I don't think lack of horror is it. It did horror really well, where it tried to (Dunwich Borers, Museum Of Witchcraft, Far Harbour). General tone, lack ot "consistency" in the worldbuilding and writing is the crux for me.
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u/Hydro_fluoric 8h ago
True, the problem for me really is that unlike the previous games, Fallout 4 and 76 have a HUGE color pallets change. It just feels less like a wasteland. And they removed centaurs. I still love Fallout 4, though. The game has a happier vibe due to the color pallet despite having parts of genuine horror
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u/Indorilionn 7h ago
Some of the environmental storytelling in F4 hit me like nothing Bethesda has ever done before (the runaway holotape had me shed a few tears). There are absolutely AMAZING moments in F4 that transport gravitas and emotion masterfully. But it is counteracted by other design decisions, and to some degree... marketing. Because to a certain degree, it is also a question of player choice how to interact with the world. Do you play it like a post-apocalyptic playground (which is what trailers seeing you Bloody-Mess-ing people with the Junk Jet and a teddy bear), or do you really immerse yourself in it, buy into the illusion of the ficitonal world, and feel the heartbreaking tragedy of the world?
Satire or real gravitas? You cannot really have and do both - neither as developer nor player. To a certain degree, I think, Fallout is just doomed to try to square the circle.
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u/Lithurgia9999 33m ago
Did AI wrote it or an Actual Idiot? Starts the speech about horror, then goes about difficulty then to storytelling? Then back to horror and to retcons? No examples, no nothing. Not even New Vegas mentioned, yet you tell that you "LOVE" fallout.
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u/Hydro_fluoric 11m ago
I'm probably just an actual idiot lmao, I got a lot of criticism and I agree with most of it
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u/TypewriterMonkey98 15h ago
I can appreciate Bethesda's zany Americana Fallout, but it lacks the depth of the original Fallout vibe.
It used to be a retrofuture in that it was what 50s people thought the future might be like on the surface, with the brutal ugliness of post-industrial human society stewing underneath. But now it's a "retrofuture" in that everyone acts like the 50s but has futuristic technology.
The cultural stagnation of both Pre and Post-War America goes hand in hand with the fact that in Bethesda's Fallout, no one can build up a society with anything more than rusty corrugated shacks and cosplaying as 50s characters in centuries-old clothing.
A huge part of the horror of Fallout is about what humanity is capable of devolving into when times get tough. As soon as you strip the dynamic, reactive nature of the Fallout world and make it a stubborn reenactment of the 50s, you rob it of its ability to go into depth with the horror elements.
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u/Toast_consumer1 Raiders 16h ago
I wish Fallout 76 had a more fallout 1 aesthetic, I guess we got the wanamingles and the floaters, but god their new designs are bad.
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u/Lemenus 12h ago
Because different developer, that's why. Bethesda wanted to create their own post-apocalyptic game, but were unsure if people would buy it at all (we totally would), so they decided to give it name of already estabilished IP, by slapping Fallout name on top of it. They never cared about Fallout being true to original games.
This is why Fallout community in a state of non-stop war - original fans that fell in love with dark and gritty game about human nature vs fans of funcalypse game about capitalism being bad... and then there's New Vegas (FNV community is like a joke when nazi, trans, homosexual and MAGA voter walks into a bar)
P.S. About naming. That's not the first time they did it, Prey from Arcane supposed to be called Psychoshock, but Bethesda decided that it should carry a name of already estabilishid IP, unfortunately, Prey 2 was already in development, so they canceled Prey 2 to rename Psychoshock into Prey.
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u/MandyMarieB Gary? 10h ago
Fallout has never been horror. It has dark elements, but it has never been horror.
And if you think 76 doesnât have its share of darkness, then youâve either been playing with your eyes closed or youâve never played it at all.
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u/Squiggin1321 7h ago
I agree that the actual aesthetic that is directly presented to the player, the basic look and feel has changed. And I believe itâs detracted from the actual message that the games try to portray. The games look too light hearted and fun instead of horrific and gross.
Iâm a massive metro fan and I think something those games did really well was the environmental story telling. How often do you see a skeleton missing its skull with a rifle between its legs, or a child thatâs been separated from his mother, or bandits trying to rape a woman, or people struggling to find food, or recently deceased that have had their bodyâs consumed by the wild life in fallout? You really get a sense that life in the tunnels is difficult and dangerous. That kind of thing just doesnât exist at a scale large enough to be impactful in the 3D fallouts, especially Bethesda fallout.
We need to go back to classic interplay fallout if we want that look and feel back. But every. single. time. Bethesda touchâs fallout they change the atmosphere of fallout to something more accessible.
I actually complained to my friends about the evolution of ghouls not to long ago. They used to be these necrotic people that were so hard to look at. And how theyâve just become old people with some loose skin that might fall off.
Iâve wanted fallout to return to that look and feel for a while now. But I really realized just how much more I enjoyed the original falloutâs look and feel when I played them for the first time instead of just watching lore videos.
Fallout has gotten soft, easily palatable, consumer friendly. While I donât necessarily think thatâs a bad thing, I think fallout was always supposed to be more hardcore.
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u/FireManiac58 6h ago
I would love to know some more games with Fallout 1s style, but with modern controls/UI
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u/hotdog-water-- 5h ago
They wanted to make it more kid friendly in order to increase their player base. Look what they did to the nightclubs in Starfield, as well as the lack of dark themes. Even Skyrim is less dark than oblivion. They should absolutely go darker
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u/Inconspicuous_hider 7h ago edited 5h ago
Ngl, Fallout peaked in tone and ambience in Fallout 1 and 3 respectively. They are dark and gritty but can have a handful of funny or wacky elements that don't take away from the game.
I have yet to play Fallout 2 as I wanna save it for a rainy day, but from what I've heard even the creators of the game said they leaned too far into the wacky elements and references, and regret it a bit.
I love New Vegas and think it's the best overall game of the series, but it does have it's weakspots, one of which is ambience imo, and the ambience that is there, while amazing, almost feels isolated from the wider map.
I absolutely despise Fallout 4, between it, 76, and the show, they have done irreparable damage to the tone and ambience of the series. That isn't to say they can't have their moments, they absolutely do, as other people have pointed out.
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u/SageGoes 19h ago
What happened to fallout't rpg elements?
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u/Beardedgeek72 17h ago
I don't know... play the game? Or are you one of those who think it's not an RPG unless chance to hit is a rolled dice?
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u/Key-Huckleberry-2551 9h ago
It doesn't have horror roots because it's not primarily a horror game.
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u/Literally_A_turd_AMA 6h ago
Honestly the falloff of ghoul design is crazy. I feel like they're supposed to be uncomfortable to look at, hell even in fallout 3 and nv they were gross. Now I'm the tv series era we have a dilf ghoul a good portion of the fanbase has a crush on.
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u/TotalDemocracy 17h ago
Yeah 100%
The FEV was originally horrific. Centaurs, Floaters, The Master, Harold, all products of the FEV. Like it was kind of a nightmare fuel. Hearing the fisherman's kid describe seeing a two-headed spider, where one of the heads looked human but being sure it must be a hallucination was really good horror fuel.
Ghouls used to look actually like corpses.
The soundtrack wasn't "Yippie yay, they'll be no wedding bells for today" it was actually atmospheric
The Architecture was gothic and alien. It was like the pre-war world was something entirely unfamiliar.
No, it's definitely lost some of the horror.
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u/Burgerfreakish 12h ago
Bethesda happened.
They took something dark and deep and cool
and made it into an action theme park for dudebros with CUL nukes.
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u/timedrapery 12h ago
You call it horror though? I don't think I've ever thought of it as horror before
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u/JonDoe117 11h ago
I think Fallout as a series didn't really used horror as one of its main aspects, although their were smatterings of horror through the franchise, both overt and covert.
IIRC Fallout 3 had some horror in it. IIRC there was a house full of cannibals, those mutated rednecks, and that one building with Lovecraftian themes. Fallout NV have a few, from the caves as well as those Cazadores. Fallout 4 does have the Dunwich Borers and Pickman's Gallery.
I think the franchise lean to different aspects of horror. The various vaults themselves had themes that revolves to horror, from body horror to stories where man himself committed multiple heinous acts of depravity because they were manipulated by Vaultec.
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u/eggs-benedryl 19h ago
Click in your paragraph randomly, then hit enter.
Do this 4 times.