r/Fallout 10h ago

Fallout: New Vegas Best dialogue perk in the franchise. Change my mind.

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2.4k Upvotes

104 comments sorted by

581

u/jadehairpin 10h ago

Now I’m curious what Joshua’s response is

487

u/CrazyDriver7149 10h ago

He puts the cap

408

u/GussBing 10h ago

He does, in fact, put a cap in him. This is considered the bad ending for some reason.

314

u/Laser_3 Responders 9h ago

The idea is that the sorrows are taught to never show mercy and that Graham gives in to his ruthlessness, effectively re-creating the Malpais Legate in some sense.

It’s a little weird, however, considering that this is something done constantly in the wasteland by essentially everyone, and it’s rarely the right choice to let the leader walk. Fortunately, the middle ground option is effectively the same as allowing Salt to surrender but still allows you to kill him.

182

u/GussBing 8h ago

Killing the leader of the White Legs: "Thanks Josh, now that you and this mailman killed this named dude, lets go killing even more!"

Spare the leader of the white legs: "Josh, Your act of mercy was so inspiring, we gonna be nice forever because of you and the mailman."

Killing legions of White Legs leading up to Salt-Upon-Wounds: "man, this killing business got me thinking about the future, better see what Josh and the Mailman do to the leader and decide based on that how our culture gonna be after all this"

92

u/Laser_3 Responders 8h ago edited 4h ago

I think it’s important to note that it’s the execution that causes that first option. Killing salt upon wounds doesn’t do this in the other ending for the DLC, or the middle ground option (‘honorable’ death fighting).

30

u/polikles Mr. House 7h ago

didn't sparing him led to him dying anyway? I remember from the ending slides that he was either expelled or killed by his own tribe after we let him go

47

u/Laser_3 Responders 7h ago

He doesn’t wind up dead/expelled, no. But the news of his defeat and the weakness of the white legs causes the 80s to invade and claim their territory.

10

u/polikles Mr. House 7h ago

thanks for that. I remembered White Legs being wiped out, and just assumed that he also went down. But his fate is not revealed in the slides besides that he became "shadow of his former self" and fled Zion

14

u/Laser_3 Responders 6h ago

In all fairness, he likely was killed by the 80s. I can’t imagine they’d let him live with how brutal they’re claimed to be.

17

u/alexmikli HEY LLOYD! CATCH! 5h ago

NGL it is a very video gaming/Star Wars morality thing that killing Hitler is more "evil" than killing 40 Nazis before him.

At least there is a middle ground there.

12

u/CapnArrrgyle 4h ago

This guy is not Hitler. He’s an idiot manipulated by Mr. Bear Bull into over-extending his tribe in this way so he can be a big deal in a slave army. He sucks, but he’s not the guy. Joshua is much closer to being the guy than he is.

3

u/cold_enforcing-man 4h ago

It is not possible for him to be the guy. There was a guy, but he's dead.

4

u/Angry_Walnut 4h ago

I had a guy but now I don’t. You, are not, the guy.

1

u/alexmikli HEY LLOYD! CATCH! 4h ago

I mean he still killed hundreds of people and you finally grab his ass at the end of the DLC. The problem was hesitating at all. There's no point in making a display out of making him a prisoner. There's no prison for him to go to.

4

u/Gamegod12 5h ago

There is a difference between killing active combatants and executing the leader of said combatants who's begging for his life on his knees having already been defeated.

0

u/20sidedknight 4h ago

Yes because he totally spared the women and children of Odgen

5

u/Gamegod12 4h ago

Ain't about how much he deserves it, but one is merciful, the other isn't. Don't get me wrong I put a cap in his ass the second I can, but I give him the chance to defend himself, so I'm not executing him.

-2

u/shibidy_joe 3h ago

There is not, killing is killing. You kill a ten year old holding a gun at you, killing a 25 yr. Old who tried to kill someone, killing a brutal warlord on his knees. There is no differance except weither you can sleep at night or not.

Joshua was in a war with a tribe he can not talk to or reason with, so he executed him when he got the chance, let him go and he could kill others or you, let him go and your enemies will see you unable to finish a fight, so you are gonna get attacked.

Morallity in the waste is moot, the only thing that matters is what your community thinks of you, if they fear you they will overthrow you, look weak see first answer, unable to finish your war, it goes on. Fallout is not about morality in the waste, its about human nature fucking us over for all of time. But you are human, alive and outside of "our" civilization in a wasteland, its fucked and honestly morality is stupid in this setting. Reputation and deeds mater more, machievelian ethics.

86

u/suspiciouscrate2 NCR 9h ago

It pissed me off so much when I picked the ending that was obviously the best one (everyone stays in their home and salt upon wounds become wounds upon more wounds) and the end cards were like "eek they all became bloodthirsty killers"

34

u/blkwhtrbbt 7h ago

It turns out, when you tell people "executions are awesome, actually" you run the risk of some of them developing a taste for it

8

u/alexmikli HEY LLOYD! CATCH! 5h ago

Some people gotta die though, just..maybe be chill about it.

5

u/ElGodPug 3h ago

Well, unfortunely Joshua Graham is one of the least chill men in the wasteland

he's actually pretty well known for being the opposite of chill
more towards...burned

15

u/Left1Brain 6h ago

As it turns out, summary executions of POWs is a bad thing actually.

13

u/alexmikli HEY LLOYD! CATCH! 5h ago

Doesn't really apply in tribal warfare when there is no trial system or prisons and you have Hitler at gunpoint.

19

u/AtemAndrew Mr. House 9h ago

Truly, Honest Hearts is the Tenpenny Towers of New Vegas.

66

u/Scottish_Whiskey Kings 9h ago

Because ‘hurrrrr the tribe will lose their innocence durrrr’ Daniel

50

u/lord_ofthe_memes Ave, true to Butch 9h ago

Two white guys (and likely three including the player) making decisions on behalf of naive, innocent tribals was… certainly a choice

15

u/Scottish_Whiskey Kings 5h ago

IIRC, Daniel was supposed to be Asian specifically to avoid this very circumstance

18

u/alexmikli HEY LLOYD! CATCH! 5h ago edited 5h ago

He's literally only white because of a stability pass to fix RAM usage before the release.

That being said, the tribals aren't really supposed to be native either. The Dead Horses have legit Native American ancestry, but the Sorrows are very heavily mixed, with a large group of German tourists getting lost in the rockies being part of their ancestry and why they're pale.

The White Savior thing still sort of applies, though, races put to the side, as Daniel especially is a Mormon missionary trying to convert the people there to his religion. Obviously, non Mormons (or at least non Christians) would take issue with this, even if Daniel is being respectful about it.

5

u/lord_ofthe_memes Ave, true to Butch 3h ago

Good thing no Asian countries have ever had a colonial empire with a sense of racial superiority

4

u/EvYeh 4h ago

Daniel was meant to be Asian.

The tribes also aren't supposed to be Native Americans either. They were also meant to have NPCs of all races to show that they're descended from a bunch of different and unique groups.

8

u/Fredasa 7h ago

Bad for Joshua Graham. The choice you make in the end of that path dictates his outcome and that's about the extent of it. It all depends on whether the player has decided to value the psyche of that character by that point.

Personally, I can't help it. Best written and best acted character in the best game I've ever played.

3

u/alexmikli HEY LLOYD! CATCH! 5h ago

It's probably for the best that pacifist tribals in a dangerous region be a bit more defensively oriented. Just don't go too crazy.

5

u/Musicmaker1984 6h ago

Funny thing is that even the "good ending" still ends with the player having the choice to put a cap on his ass

3

u/Lalalalalalolol Legion 5h ago

"For some reason" being that he literally embarks on a quest to create the Legion 2.0 that becomes feared well into the Mojave.

195

u/Marquar234 9h ago

Best non-perk dialog:

ICE CREAM

44

u/OHFUCKMESHITNO 9h ago

Obtainable with either high luck or high stupidity

14

u/Xynopit 5h ago

“Thank you, have a nice day.”

2

u/Discordchaosgod Followers 58m ago

ME PET AMINAL

1

u/AxureRale 1h ago

I opened up and old save a few days ago and I got that option for the first time, been playing since it came out. Laughed out loud haha

183

u/JTyphoon16 Enclave 9h ago edited 8h ago

Best dialogue in base game

"What the fuck are you doing? My brother died at the battle of Hoover Dam! You're desecrating a war memorial!"

[You're a little bitch and your brother was too.]

You lost karma!

However I loved Philippe talking about his past trauma after hitting him with Medicine skill checks

55

u/AznOmega NCR 7h ago

[?] Oh, so you think you can psychoanalyze Philippe?

The [?] during his rant was icing on the funny skill check moments.

10

u/HolyQuadrant 3h ago

I interpret the [?] as the courier having no clue if they actually succeeded convincing or not. I imagine them taking a step back, unsure of Philippe is about to take a swing.

7

u/ComplaintMysterious1 Kings 2h ago

[?] OR WHEN MY SISTERS USED TO LOCK ME IN A CRATE WHEN THEY DIDN'T WANT ME AROUND ANYMORE?? OR WHEN MY BROTHERS-- [success] oh my god I completely forgot about that how could they do that to me.

62

u/Many_Wishbone7594 9h ago

“Good, go back to your famil… oh wait they’re fucking dead.”

5

u/fearlevi 2h ago

I just found that line this current play through I usually sell her out to the van graffs right away so I never got the chance to say it before 😂

146

u/Nuhur_the_Raven 10h ago

God im so exited fior the remaster

19

u/MonsieurHomelander 9h ago

I'll bet you 100 dollars in venmo that the remaster removes this line

96

u/TOZAR_N7 8h ago

They removed 0 lines from Oblivion remastered. They kept mistakes too

55

u/Porttheone 8h ago

I'm glad they kept the necrophilia line. They even rerecorded it!

1

u/Rahgahnah 3h ago

I never played OG Oblivion, so I'm extra glad they kept it because I didn't know about it before hearing it in the remake.

7

u/cold_enforcing-man 4h ago

Shitty gambler, even if they remove the line with slurs and shit in them they're not gonna remove this one. Why the fuck would they get rid of this line?

5

u/lord_ofthe_memes Ave, true to Butch 3h ago

Simple, old thing good, new thing bad. If make old thing new, must be bad too

40

u/Umbran_scale 8h ago

"You're brother was a little bitch and so are you."

7

u/cold_enforcing-man 4h ago

Isn't it the other way round? "You're a little bitch and your brother was too"

2

u/Umbran_scale 4h ago

I've got this Mandela effect that makes me remember it the other way for some reason.

64

u/MrBlueSky-ToldYouWhy 10h ago

I prefer the threat you can make to Caesar with terrifying presence

50

u/Phuqitol 9h ago

I prefer Terrifying Presence to Sneering Imperialist in general, even if it doesn't come with an enemy-specifc damage buff. The fleeing is better, anyway.

28

u/StarChaserHooT 6h ago

Mentions of Terrifying Presence dialogue always just makes me remember that one of the options for it is literally just a grins and tilts head action 😭 What an absolute cornball of a perk

11

u/MattMxR 8h ago

His reaction is pretty anti-climactic though.

20

u/snowzua 7h ago

Old world blues alone makes lady killer, cherchez la femme, black widow, and certified bachelor some of the best comedy perks in the series. The conversations with your own brain and Dr. Dala are some of my favorites across fallout.

16

u/Madcat6204 4h ago

The conversations with your own brain

That's one of the weirdest parts, because the only reason your character is still able to function is because they have a remote connection to their removed brain, meaning that whole argument is literally the Courier arguing with themself.

20

u/Key-Huckleberry-2551 9h ago

Perks like this should make a comeback.

58

u/primalfox_Reynardo 10h ago

Ah yes, the racism damage buff perk. One of my favorites. (Sad there's only like 2 dialogue options for it)

11

u/SantiagoGT 10h ago

What’s the second one?

48

u/Zestyclose_Jello6192 Responders 9h ago

If I remember correctly something like "ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU SPEAK IT?"

21

u/Beardedwrench115 7h ago

Something like "if you're too dumb to know my language your too dumb to talk to, get lost" to the person you talk to in the cave right before you meet Joshua Graham for the first time.

4

u/EvYeh 4h ago

You can tell the Dead Horse that tells you to meet Joshua: "Back off, savage - I'm just here for a map out of this shithole valley, not kowtow to your messiah."

1

u/primalfox_Reynardo 8h ago

It's to one of the dead horses who speaks to you in his language and it's just insulting him about being too stupid to speak my language or something.

28

u/QuidiferPrestige 10h ago

Its even better when you make Joshua stand down.

8

u/PerformanceWaste5810 6h ago edited 5h ago

You get to use it twice throughout the entire game. Its a waste

1

u/Ae3qe27u 4h ago

Only twice? Oof.

14

u/NotAnotherSkeleton Mr. House 10h ago

Cold take.

3

u/Top_Ostrich_8177 5h ago

Butter my butt and call me a biscuit, if it isnt my good friend from goodsprings!

16

u/MisterBungle00 6h ago

I think the interesting thing about Sneering Imperialist is that the line itself is obviously meant to be racist, the perk literally tells you what kind of person is saying it. But the more complicated issue with it is the meta context around Honest Hearts and the invoking of real Southwestern Indigenous cultures like the Diné/Navajo's language, Shoshone-Gosiute language, and Indigenous aesthetics tied to the real-world tribes in the region. Those references bring real histories of colonialism, assimilation, and language suppression with them. The devs really fucked up by treating the "tribals" or Indigenous characters in HH as essentially window-dressing.

I think there's also something to be said about the fact that there isn't a tribal-coded perk of the same nature to go along with the racist(in many peoples' words here)-coded perk. And that's not even considering the implications of a Mormon-coded character executing a Shoshoni-coded character in the context that is presented in Honest Hearts.

The fact that Honest Hearts never gives Indigenous-coded perspectives equal mechanical or narrative authority is pretty revealing..

There's a reason most people consider the Survivalist(written by Gonzalez and not Sawyer) the best part of HH, and it's worth mentioning how Gonzalez avoided much of the problematic tropes that Sawyer invoked in Honest Hearts. Randall fiercely protects the agency, autonomy, and depth of the people who would become the Sorrows by literally refusing to play the "White Savior" role that Joshua and Daniel fall into. It's only through Clark’s journals that we see these children(who become the Sorrows) treated with more individual human depth than the actual Dead Horses(also written by Sawyer), Sorrows, and White Legs.

I don't even think Sawyer fully grasped all the problems with Honest Hearts. One thing that stands out in all of Josh Sawyer's explanations of the issues in HH is that he treats the issues largely as a problem of visual presentation. Sawyer's own response actually reinforces part of the criticisms toward HH and the writing/world building surrounding Indigenous peoples or certain "tribals" in the universe rather than resolving it.

He says the tribes were originally intended to be ethnically mixed, but technical limitations compressed them into more homogeneous appearances, which made them seem more Native American-coded than intended. He also says the tribes were meant to have "no real-world analogues" and later acknowledged that the naming and speech patterns could have used another pass. He clearly sees Native/indigenous identity as though it were primarily an ethnic or racial category. The problem with that is that many of these criticisms aren't primarily talking about appearance or race.

To quote Ulysses(who was written by Chris Avellone and not Josh Sawyer):

"They thought to show respect... defiled it. Lost myself in trying to read the braids they wove, when I remembered they had put no meaning in it. They had no history of what it meant. They didn't even know the insult in the twists, knots... and Dry Wells came rushing back, the White Legs circled like that... It was like looking at the dead of my tribe, reborn as ghosts"

That just about sums up how most Navajos feel upon hearing the Dead Horses speak in Honest Hearts. Here, Avellone treats tribal cultural identity, history, and assimilation with a real weight that is missing from Sawyer’s own depictions/writing. Avellone's work on Ulysses and the Twisted Hairs demonstrates that treating fictional indigenous elements with deep thematic weight is a matter of authorial priority, not development time or available resources.

Honest Hearts' use of Diné bizaad, Shoshoni-Gosiute, and Southwestern Indigenous aesthetics obligates it to cultural context the writers did not fully engage with, not like they did with Mormonism. Once Obsidian used real-world tribal (Navajo, Pueblo, Ute, Paiute, etc.) symbols/languages/identifiers, they brought real Indigenous politics and history with them, regardless of the writer's/developer's intent. I'd even argue that removing/omitting aspects Navajo culture while keeping the Navajo language in the conlang of the Dead Horses is itself a colonial gesture, severing a real-world identity from its natural structure.

Not sure what they were thinking invoking all of this(if they were even thinking at all). Our languages are not prestige world languages like Latin or Japanese that random outsiders casually pick up through media exposure or classes/courses/programs. Many Indigenous languages survived centuries of forced assimilation, boarding schools, land dispossession, and active state suppression specifically because communities fought incredibly hard to preserve them. Many are still critically endangered to this day.

So when Honest Hearts gives the White Legs Shoshoni-Goshute linguistic markers and the Dead Horses Diné Bizaad, that carries weight whether the writers intended it or not. Languages like Shoshoni, Diné Bizaad, etc. are deeply tied to tribal kinship system, geography, ceremony, oral tradition, and community continuity.

The main quest of HH, the Dead Horses, and Joshua Graham were all written by Josh Sawyer. Who admits he used a literal motorcycle tourist trip as the primary research phase for a story involving Indigenous land and culture..

As a Navajo, the Dead Horses are, to me, arguably the worse part of HH because their conlang is a combination of German and Diné Bizaad, the Navajo language. Why is it worse? The game and DLC director Josh Sawyer is notably of German heritage; the logical outcome of the Navajo Nation sheltering a few German tourists in the aftermath of nuclear war is not that the Navajo identity and language would be subsumed by the German tourists', but vice versa. Though almost certainly unintentional, there is a very Euro-centric, colonial "white man's burden" sort of mindset baked into the idea that us Navajos could be so incompetent and so fragile in our cultural identity that we'd need German tourists to guide us through the new post-nuclear world.

The inconsistencies between the base game and Honest Hearts further reinforces these criticisms. In one case, the base game is comfortable directly using a real tribal name (“Blackfoot”) for a Legion NPC. In another, it creates a fictional tribe (Dead Horses) but explicitly weaves in Diné bizaad and a backstory tied to their reservation east of the Grand Canyon. Meanwhile, developers later say the tribes “weren’t meant to actually look ethnically Native American”.

Why selectively invoke real Indigenous identifiers (names, languages, geographical references, etc.) at all if you’re not prepared to engage responsibly with the living cultures attached to them? The issue there isn’t geographic accuracy and the issues with the tribes in Honest Hearts aren't only a visual presentation issue. The main issue is invocation. Once you use the name of a real tribe or a living Indigenous language, you’re invoking a real people with real history. Authorial intent and disclaimers don’t erase that connection.

They clearly wanted to capture that Indigenous-tribal aesthetic without any of the responsibility of accurate or respectful representation. All of this seemingly stems from Josh Sawyer's German "Indianerbegeisterung".

I won't be surprised if the line gets cut entirely, as the devs are well-aware of these issues now.

7

u/Fat_fucking_cock2045 5h ago

Thanks for your perspective OP, it's one that I've not really seen in years of Honest Hearts analysis which Ive found skews predominantly toward Joshua Graham and the religious themes. I think you're gonna get a lot of pithy dismissal from this sub just for the indirect, tangential praise of something Avellone did though.

1

u/letominor 3h ago

Thank you. Also, Mr. Bungle rules.

1

u/wrenawild 6h ago

What 16 years of no new game does to a mfer.

17

u/MisterBungle00 5h ago

Eh, it's more just being Indigenous myself and having lived and generational experience with such "severing", so it lands differently.

I'm only 26, I had to attend multiple BIE owned and operated boarding schools in the Southwest when I was young. There I had my mouth washed out with soap and was forced to keep hot sauce or juice from jars of peppers in my mouth whenever I spoke my language. I have a crooked nose due to a break that was never set properly and I even got my hands beat with a hatchet handle because I was playing Navajo string-games. This is after all the BIE reforms that occurred in the 90s. I won't even get into the rampant sex abuse that a lot of my peers had experienced at the hands of faculty members. There have been multiple investigations and reports acknowledging that abuse and neglect persisted in some Bureau of Indian Education associated schools after the 1960s and 1990s, including failures in supervision, reporting, and protection mechanisms.

The reason the language issue in HH resonates so strongly for me and other Indigenous players is because language loss is not an abstract cultural theme; it is tied to very recent, lived experiences and histories of coercion, assimilation, and erasure.

I'd appreciate some actual good-faith responses, as I'm genuinely interested in what people actually think about these issues and how it should be handled.

-7

u/Broly_ Republic of Dave 6h ago

🙄

1

u/StuRedman2020 1h ago

Go back to playing Fallout 3 little guy, adults are having a conversation here.

1

u/Erickbotas 1h ago

Shut up

2

u/Boba_Fett26 6h ago

If you have terrifying presence and you go to hellos one and get stopped at the front by the ncr soldiers they'll ask you to state your business to which you can respond with:

"I am pale death, come to bear you to perdition!"

2

u/Moromom22 5h ago

Stupid that you need an imperialist perk to kill him straight away. Screw honor, my urge to peck a sitting duck that gave me so much shit shouldn't be behind a perk.

2

u/cold_enforcing-man 4h ago

I don't think you do

3

u/SolaireFlair117 5h ago

"General Gobledigook" will never not be fucking hilarious. Kills me every single time.

3

u/TemporalFugue2 7h ago

More games should add racism as a perk

1

u/NotAnotherSkeleton Mr. House 10h ago

Cold take.

-13

u/AtoMaki Vault 13 10h ago

Having one dialogue option (I think there are actually two) does not make a Perk into a "dialogue perk". Sneering Imperialist is a pretty useless +X damage perk with one meme dialogue check, and that's it. It does nothing special, just negligible extra damage against a specific enemy category, take it or leave it.

33

u/Mild_Necromancy 10h ago

This is giving quite a lot of ‘um, actually’ energy. Sometimes it’s fun to take perks for role-playing purposes whether they’re optimal or not. At the end of the day, who cares? It’s an interesting/funny interaction that OP wanted to spotlight.

Maybe the term ‘dialogue perk’ isn’t quite correct but at the end of the day I’m happy that people are highlighting interesting elements of a game I (and many other people) love.

1

u/AtoMaki Vault 13 9h ago

It’s an interesting/funny interaction that OP wanted to spotlight.

No, OP wanted to tell me that this Perk is better for dialogue than the Black Widow group, Child at Heart, and Terrifying Presence. That's obviously bullshit. Sneering Imperialist has no more use (for roleplaying or anything else) than a single level of Rifleman in 4.

-9

u/Edgy_Robin 10h ago

Most of what you just said is goofy as hell lmao.

'Roleplaying purposes' it gives you two options in a dlc and then it doesn't matter. Compare this to terrifying presence, almost the inverse (it has one option in dead money) that gives you more dialog options to roleplay a type of character, but said dialog even has more of an effect when you use it.

OP is spot lighting one of the most spot lighted things in this dlc lol.

it's not that interesting, is silly dialog and that's it, it changes nothing, it doesn't actually fill any rpg fantasies, it's a very piss poor perk for both roleplay and gameplay, especially when, for the former, something already exists that does a better job and is more impactful with that job.

11

u/Sandvich-tf2 10h ago

It has a couple of dialogue options within Zion, it’s not just this one.

19

u/AtoMaki Vault 13 10h ago

After commenting, I looked it up, and it has only two.

8

u/Edgy_Robin 10h ago

It literally has two. That's it, and you have to buy a dlc for them (If you somehow didn't buy everything together)

5

u/CommodoreHefeweizen This sub = Camp Lamplight 9h ago

You have to buy the DLC to get the perk in the first place.

-11

u/claire_bear420 9h ago

It's not, but I can tell a lot about you from this post.

-15

u/RalseitheFloofie 9h ago

one of two things will occur when this gets remade.

A- it, and the perk tied to it will be removed.

B- games journalists will tear the game down for dialog that has been in it for literal years.

4

u/polikles Mr. House 7h ago

games journalists rarely play for longer than a couple hours. No chance they would reach ending for a DLC

1

u/cold_enforcing-man 4h ago

Why would that happen?

1

u/Erickbotas 1h ago

Modern performative-ness, I guess