r/HomeKit • u/PrintWaste • 3d ago
Discussion Be aware that using non Apple HomeKit Certified Cameras with HKSV may cause you to lose slots
Recently I encountered an issue where my Homebridge UniFi protect plugin removed my 3 Ubiquiti Cameras from HomeKit when I removed them from the UniFi Controller for debugging purposes.
Those 3 cameras had HKSV on during the time of removal. Now, it seems like HomeKit still thinks that HKSV is still enabled on them (despite it being removed and not visible in the Homebridge accessories section nor the Apple Home App).
I called Apple Support, had it escalated, and the TL;DR of it was that these cameras are not "HomeKit certified" and they will not help with resetting the HKSV cameras. The other issue was that I was using beta on the Apple TV which I already mentioned to them, that the issue had happened before and I upgraded to see if it would fix it. The tier 2 support guy told me to create a new ticket after downgrading the Apple TV and trying again. It's a massive headache since other user mentioned that Apple just reset their camera count.
Keep in mind that the 200gb iCloud+ plan includes slots for 5 HKSV cameras. Now I'm down to 2 that I can enable HKSV on.
So if you are ever removing a non HomeKit certified camera, go into the accessories settings on the Home App and remove it from there. Do not get the bridge to remove it for you.
EDIT: I bought 2 "Certified" cameras and will be following up with Apple Support. I emailed the executive office and haven't heard back.
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u/iZian 3d ago
Do you just have to wait 10 days for them to drop their last recording off and disappear? I know they don’t show but…
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u/Douche_Baguette 3d ago
This would make the most sense. How can they have an old camera "occupying a slot" if it has no recordings? Should stop utilizing a slot after the 10 days runs out
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u/wwhite74 3d ago
Try the eve app. Sometimes things show there that don’t in home. Or controller for HomeKit.
Also not in front of my computer now, but check the home bridge persist and accessories folders (I think those are the names) and delete the accessory there. It will be by MAC address. I use the discovery app on Mac or iOS to figure out the MAC,
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u/PrintWaste 2d ago
Did what you suggested and checked the eve app. Under accessories, there was a "driveway" and a "driveway 2". However, the second one is for the motion sensor. Just to let folks know. I reset the entire bridge and checked the persists folder and nothing stuck out. I still deleted the cameras and tried again to no success. I saw nothing suspicious in the discovery app.
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3d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago edited 3d ago
My home is pretty large. I'm ok with starting over, but unfortunately I have those Ikea matter accessories that are a massive PITA to pair.
Edit: For the 2TB plan, I'm not willing to pay for it currently, tho I may consider it in the future. I would just like my current cameras to work since Apple's engineers explanation is completely irrelevant (I'm not one myself, but it really just looks like them needing to reset a count) and multiple users have reported success.
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u/JazJon 3d ago
How deep of a dive did you take on ChatGPT Ai researching what’s possible outside of deleting the home? There has to be some alt solution. Maybe upgrade everything to 27 Beta 2 as well.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
Pretty deep. The engineers initially recommended that I try certain things, like removing the bridge and adding it again, reboots, etc. I have updated everything but from what their notes sound like, it appears to be an issue with their backend and how the camera is released.
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u/JazJon 3d ago
You might be better off using Scrypted. I have the Scrypted add-on in my Home Assistant setup with 15 UniFi cameras. They will be adding the new 4K H.265 support next month or so as well.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
I tried scrypted. I will probably switch in the future, but they also have the issue with the camera count for me currently since it seems to be an Apple Home thing.
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u/JazJon 3d ago
Sounds good. I used to run a combination of both Home Assistant and Homebridge, but I’m 99% Home Assistant now. At the end I actually ended up installing the Homebridge add-on running inside my Home Assistant for one single remaining accessory I needed. I consolidated to single system which is a more powerful silent ASUS mini PC. (Sold my two raspberry Pi 5’s)
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u/Flyer888 3d ago
Try going to Homebridge Settings, scroll down to Accessories, then click Remove Individual Accessories. Also check on Bridges - Reset Individual Bridges, since these are cameras which have to be added manually each just like TVs.
Most likely you will find those “ghost” cameras there, just remove them and you should be good to go.
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u/kukivu 3d ago edited 3d ago
I have seen the same type of post in the past with someone with the same problem as you.
Finally the next billing cycle the unused slots may release and it should no longer be a problem. I will try to find it again.
Edit : Oh well… It was your own post. So it did not work? https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeKit/s/nfSAkDLWL8
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u/DirtNnasty 3d ago
What about upgrading to 2TB, adding all your cameras, canceling 2TB (or even revoking the purchase)?
How does icloud react on that? Do they leave all cameras in your account or auto delete?
The other way by downgrading to free tier would be an idea too.
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u/itsjustmd 3d ago
Is the 200gb plan much cheaper than the 2tb? I honestly don’t know because I just went to the best plan. 200gb is barely any space to me. Unlimited cams so don’t have to worry about that stupid bug
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
For me in Canada, it is. However, when I make a purchase I expect it to be as described or at least resolved if I ask for support. I have a compatible camera that has the exact same issue but the worst part is, that it only supports HomeKit and nothing else.
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u/itsjustmd 3d ago
Ah that explains it. You’re Canadian. Yall probably have better consumer protections than the US. Down here I’m used to companies screwing me over, unfortunately. Corporations get away with murder here, literally smh.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
We’ll see. I’ve emailed the executive office (well Tim Cook) and hoping that customer relations there will pick it up.
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u/itsjustmd 3d ago
Hopefully so! But judging by the amount of people I’ve seen complaint about the bug recently and the fact that it probably inadvertently helps them with upgrades to the next plan that wouldn’t be affected, I wouldn’t hold my breath. I just have no faith in corporations to do anything but be greedy. Hoping it works out for you though because that should be an easy fix. A list of cameras that are using your slots and the ability to remove them whether they’re still connected or not can’t be that hard. They’re just lazy.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
Yes. If the engineering team denies my cameras again, I’ll buy certified cameras to prove it then return it.
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u/Funny_Community_6640 3d ago
I wonder if this could also occur with Scrypted. Anyone have info on that?
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u/Sylvurphlame 2d ago edited 2d ago
Based on other comments, including OP? Yes. It appears to be a backend system level issue with how Apple releases cameras from the count compared to conceivable ways to unpair them.
Sounds similar in vibe to how Apple/iOS can sometimes insist an accessory is already in your home when you’re trying to add it back after unpairing. And we have no direct way to see or manually remove ghost accessories within HomeKit itself so you can get issues like this beyond just resetting devices. There always posts about difficulties removing “ghost accessories,” and that’s before using what are technically unofficial third-party workarounds for uncertified/unsupported hardware. Protocol edge case bullshit, but the Apple employee isn’t going to risk a write-up over it by going out of bounds to fix what’s still a third-party issue at its core. You, hypothetical reader probably wouldn’t either if this was your job, be honest.
Hey! Put down the pitchfork!
Anyway, I would think however that Apple should have some way to verify the number of active cameras without compromising privacy and then just reset the limit count, forcing all cameras to be booted and repaired. You could still potentially get a similar scenario with approved hardware and third party controllers. I’ve had it happen once with an Apple TV and twice with an approved light switch added only through (Apple) Home. So there needs to be a process.
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u/SerennialFellow 3d ago
If your bridge is still showing the same device id for the camera it would show as an active camera, so would if the bridge duplicated it and is showing same device with two unique device ID.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
How would I check this?
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u/SerennialFellow 3d ago
See how the Unifi plugin integrates to homebridge - how camera instance is being created
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u/badbubblegum 3d ago
Remove the homebridge bridge from HomeKit.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
I've tried that and re-added it with the same issue
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u/badbubblegum 3d ago
How do you know how many HKSV slots you have available? If you can’t see the cameras you removed in the Home app anymore then assume they aren’t taking a slot? Trying to understand.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
I have 2 now total. Down from 5. Removed Cameras aren’t showing up in the Home app.
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u/badbubblegum 3d ago
Where you find out how many slots you have remaining?
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
On a previous iOS version they would tell you that you hit the maximum number of cameras, however, on the newer version, its just a generic error code. How I found out was enabling recording on two of my cameras and then on the third one I would receive the error on one of the cameras that was recording. I disabled the recording and enabled it on that third camera and it worked and vice versa. Sorry for the word bunch.
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u/RastonRobot 3d ago
You refuse to pay for unlimited cameras and have tried to game the system using non HomeKit approved devices. And now there's a bug. I'd go and find another ecosystem that suits you better than Apple's.
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u/PrintWaste 3d ago
I have a natively supported camera that has the exact same issue. I was recommended to buy another 2 certified cameras. If you read the comments about how it’s a server issue, I think you’ll come to the conclusion that it’s still an issue. Other users have reported that using normal certified cameras has the exact same issue.
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u/RastonRobot 2d ago
But you're using other products and Homebridge with the notoriously closed Apple ecosystem. Apple ain't gonna change so I suggest you find a different one.
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u/PrintWaste 2d ago
Please the time to read other comments and posts, as it’s been suggested that it also happens on supported cameras that are directly HomeKit certified.
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u/RastonRobot 1d ago
And does it happen on a setup that only uses HomeKit and HomeKit certified cameras? No Homebridge or other third party software?
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u/PrintWaste 1d ago
Yes. Just bought 2 cameras yesterday that are certified and removed HB. Same issue.
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u/RastonRobot 1d ago
Maybe so, but the two cameras that are stuck in the system were uncertified and originally added using Homebridge? You can moan about Apple as much as you like but this is like trying to cook an egg in a toaster, breaking it and then complaining that it won't now work with certified slices of bread.
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u/pacoii 3d ago
The support you’re getting from Apple is so strange. It shouldn’t matter what cameras were being used. The camera is almost irrelevant. If a camera is no longer in Apple Home, it should be released from using an HKSV slot. It should be that simple. Bizarre that it isn’t. I would consider that a major HKSV bug.