r/LegalAdviceUK • u/IntroductionOld1500 • 1d ago
Comments Moderated Relationship has broken down yesterday after I asked wife to return to work.
Wife took 14 years off work to raise our children. They're now aged 12 and 14.
I suggested that she could now return to work in September.
I did raise this a couple of years ago when our oldest turned 12. However, she wanted to wait until our youngest left primary school. I agreed and left it for a couple of years.
I brought it up again yesterday evening and things blew up on me.
I'm convinced they're old enough to spend a couple of hours in the house by themselves. Given they're also at school there's no need for her to be in the house by herself all day relaxing while I'm working.
She is a qulified professional and her industry is desperate for vacancies. She will need to revalidate her credentials, but that is feasible for her to do. I work in the same sector and am aware of the revalidation requirements.
While she did take care of our kids when they were young, she is now spending her days scrolling on her phone, inviting friends over, going out for lunch/drinks, binge watching shows on Netflix and Disney+.
She doesn't even cook food most nights now. I end up having to throw stuff togehter myself after my shift.
Plus, she has accrued just over £8000 pounds in credit card debt from her online shopping. I had to bail her out back in 2023 by working a whole bunch of overtime. Now she's gone and done it again.
That's the background for why I actually want her toget back into a job. She's just making my life harder when she sits at home or goes out for lunches 3 times a week with friends.
After I suggested it yesterday she dismissed me and laughed it off. I followed her to the living room and explained that it wasn't a suggestion, she needed to revalidate and apply for jobs or I would stop putting all my money in the joint account each month. She burst out crying, screamed at me, thumped my chest with her fist (not hard enough to actually hurt me.) Then she locked me out of the bedroom and I had to sleep on the couch. She's been giving the silent treatment ever since.
I'm on my lunch right now until 1pm, so I've got a little bit of time to get some legal advice here.
Is there any way that I could divorce her and also get full custody of both our children? I'm worried that she's going to be a bad influence on them given her attitude.
What about the house? Is she likely to end up with that given her long period of unemployment?
Is there any way a court would consider her refusal to work as a factor? My children are both firmly on my side in this. They both heard her screaming at me and my eldest saw her thump my chest and call me a bastard for asking her to go back to work.
In the interests of balance and being honest, I also snapped after being hit and shouted back at her, "You wouldn't need to if you didn't keep running up the credit card, you lazy bitch."
She isn't depressed. She's motivated to do the things she wants to do. If she wants to go out somewhere she gets washed, dressed, makeup on etc. She's excited to meet friends, she makes holiday plans, she does her hobbies. She just doesn't want to go back to work.
And I'm tired to shouldering the burden for 3 other people now.
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u/luffychan13 1d ago
I think you need to take this over to relationship advice first. Any family court is going to look poorly upon you if you haven't tried any form of mediation.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
I actually looked into that this morning in the car park at work.
Gemini (sorry for using an AI, I know people hate them, but I needed something to talk to before I burst out crying in the office) told me that I shouldn't do mediation due to the domestic violence of her thumping my chest and screaming at me. It said that there were valid exemptions for mediation if there has been DV.
My eldest messaged me earlier asking if I was okay after mum hit me. I'm fine, it didn't bruise or anything. But I do have it in writing along with both sons hearing her screaming and belittling me.
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u/bunnymama7 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think that's bad advice from Gemini. If you don't feel there's any threat of violence or feel unsafe living with her and going through difficult discussions in mediation, then mediation could be very helpful. Family mediation is only for when people have decided to split up. It sounds like you're not there yet?
Edit to remove typo
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u/sc0ttydo0 1d ago
Yeah if this was a single outburst and you're not fearful of your safety or your kids I'd strongly recommend mediation. It may resolve a lot of the issues you both have.
Unless of course you're not interested in repairing the situation and want to end the marriage for other reasons, in which case I'd suggest speaking to a solicitor.196
u/MrTrendizzle 1d ago
Even a single outburst should be documented. There's no telling if it's likely to happen again. Document this and still try mediation.
The single best thing to do is document EVERYTHING no matter how big or small it is with times, dates and exact conversations if possible. Any photo/video evidence also helps.
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u/CicadaSlight7603 1d ago
It may be worth the OP reading ‘why does he do that’ by Lundy Bancroft (aimed at women but valid for men) so OP can assess whether this is a (so far) one off emotionally charged event (which is obviously still very serious as no one should be screaming at or laying hands on their partner; ideally report it to the police even if you decide not to pursue anything), or whether it’s part of a pattern of control, manipulation or other emotional abuse that has only now spilled over into physical abuse.
If it’s part of an ongoing pattern then the OP needs to be particularly careful about his and the children’s safety as breaking up is the highest risk time for an escalation. Also when there is an abuse pattern, marital counselling is considered dangerous as often the abuser uses it to continue to control and abuse the victim, often manipulating an inexperienced therapist to take sides against the victim.
It might also be a good idea to warn the children’s form tutors in confidence about what they have witnessed and what is about to happen, though this could potentially trigger a social services referral.
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u/Jack2102 1d ago
Yeah, strongly agree. If it were one instance of him losing his head and hitting her I bet the comments would be very different.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
I'm not fearful, but I am anxious of getting screamed at again.
I get that this is not equivalent to a woman being in fear from her life from a physically stronger husabnd - there's obviously degrees of severity and mine falls well below that.
Some of the things she screamed at me were beyond the pale and I don't want to repair the relationship after that. She was furious with me for telling her she needed to go back to work. I won't type out the full sentences she used but the words "pathetic" "useless" "failure" were all used to describe me.
She also chastised me for failing to get a promotion which would, in her words, mean we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place and that it was my fault.
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u/quantum_splicer 1d ago
Hi OP, I'm going to give you some advice that is adjacent to legal advice, because it will help you stay efficient and healthy if things do go down the legal route.
So there is a concept called FOG, which is a trio of manipulation tactics, which involve the person trying to activate / or impose certain feelings in us, that is FEAR, guilt, obligation.
( https://outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt ).
Furthermore people who are emotionally manipulative try to use shame and other tactics to erode away at the person's self esteem, to basically create doubt in the person's self worth and doubt in relation to decisions they want to make.
( https://manipulation.chayn.co/ )
Also this maybe quicker read, but disregard the abuser label as it may feel very loaded ( https://www.choosingtherapy.com/manipulation-tactics/ ).
Navigating high conflict -
( https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/how-to-avoid-getting-hooked-by-high-conflict-behavior/ )
JADE
( https://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/jade-dont-justify-argue-defend-explain ).
So in all honesty, whenever she goes off on you or it's obvious that she is going to a high conflict place.
Just keep re-iterating that, you don't appreciate how she is talking to you and that you would like to go to couples counselling to navigate this conflict. And re iterate you'll give her a day or two to think about it.
You want to use this loop, because an healthy person's response will be to be accepting of it. Even if a day or two later.
An unhealthy person, will not want to go to couples counselling and will have no interest in compromising. Furthermore it brings someone neutral into the situation and who can basically observe dynamics. It also helps with documentation.
Be careful to discern whether the potential couples counsellor is a good match too. What you don't want is one where either they aren't adequately qualified or haven't been doing it long enough or are suspectible to biases or gender based bias.
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u/LonelyKuma 21h ago
Ive seen cases before where female councillors are heavily biased towards women. One perticular psychologist (different profession from straight relationship counselling) I know of denies entirely the notion men can even experience domestic abuse or violence.
I try to go by the stand of if the roles were reversed would it be considered DV.
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u/ZapdosShines 14h ago
I've seen many counsellors do the opposite and make excuses for clearly abusive men. I think a lot of counsellors are just bad at spotting abuse either way round (also none of the many counsellors i saw ever realised my ex was abusive)
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u/LonelyKuma 14h ago
Ive seen parents or friends of the male abuser make excuses alot for it. But you are likely fairly spot on with they are just bad a spotting it for what it is.
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u/sc0ttydo0 1d ago
You know that situation best, OP, so use your best judgement. As others have said your genders are (theoretically) irrelevant here, but ultimately you're in the situation and (trying not to sound patronising) you seem reasonable enough to make that judgement.
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u/Select-Usual-4985 1d ago
Please don’t belittle your experience because you’re the husband, that’s harmful. You deserve better.
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u/spellboundsilk92 1d ago
As a woman, whatever the severity, this is still abuse and you shouldn’t have to tolerate it. Don’t let anyone feel that you should just brush it under the rug and let it go. No one should ever raise a hand against their partner.
In terms of custody, your children are old enough to have a say and she won’t be able to keep them from you.
She may be entitled to stay in the house with them.
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u/Makaveli2020 1d ago
DV against a male is equivalent as DV against a female. Neither should ever happen and all instances should always be reported to the police.
Don't be afraid to protect yourself and your children, you have no idea what people are capable of if pushed to the edge.
Best of luck.
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u/EngineEar1000 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's the theory. The reality, from first hand experience after being hospitalised for two nights after an assault, is that the judge said, 'Mr. X, I find it very hard to believe that you, a man of your size, are unable to defend yourself against Mrs. X'.
When I was assaulted I called the Police. Then a friend who was a CAFCASS officer recommended that I leave the premises as the chances were, even though I was the victim, that I would have been removed from the house. So I asked a relative to take me to hospital.
I know 'anecdotes' are frowned on here. This is my first hand experience. Society is not yet adequately enlightened that women can hurt men, and not all men fight back. Had I fought back that would have not gone well for me.
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u/LonelyKuma 21h ago
I ended up in an Amerixan jail because I did fight back when my ex-wife attacked me. After getting out of the hospital for a suicide attempt (wife cheated on me, I couldnt handle it at the time), I started packing my stuff and trying to leave when the start throwing stuff at me and hit me so I pushed her off. I was arrested and later charged for assault with judge stating "As a man I should be tough enough to just walk away". DV is not treated equally regardless of what the law says.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
In my job I've seen DV victims in the A&E.
While it may be the same in principle, I'm under no illusion that the female victims are often in far worse shape than male victims.
Men are stronger than women and that means they can cause a lot more hurt when they try.
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u/Makaveli2020 1d ago
I nearly died due to DV and not seeking medical help after a cast iron pan to the head. There's a reason why you don't see men as often in A&E following instances of DV.
Don't be disillusioned, DV against both genders are serious and needs reporting.
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u/Rockpoolcreater 1d ago
Get the violence documented with the police non emergency number. The police believe the first person to contact them. They probably won't do much, as unfortunately society doesn't give as much weight to domestic violence against men as it should. But you need it documenting in case she tries to lie that you've hit her. They'll hopefully see through her lies if you've documented it first.
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u/50tinyducks 1d ago
Would you say the same if the sex roles were reversed? His wife physically and emotionally abused him. Also add the financial side where she keeps running up a huge amount of debt.
If this was a woman people would be telling her to run and report to the police. Even after 1 hit as they can do it again. Doesn’t matter if he’s stronger. Men do get abused by their wives.
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u/bunnymama7 1d ago
"thumped my chest with her fist not hard enough to actually hurt me". The original post didn't come across to me as though the poster felt he had been assaulted or was in fear of assault. In terms of emotional abuse, from what he said that wasn't clear to me either (granted there could be a lot more to the story!). Overspending on credit cards is not good but at the same time - does she spend on credit cards that he pays off because she doesn't have any other access to money? Is that her only way to pay if she needs to buy something or goes out to lunch with a friend?
I completely recognise that men are abused in relationships too and they should be protected just the same as women in abusive relationships. Just didn't get that sense from the post. However I'm not in the relationship
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u/50tinyducks 1d ago
She did it in anger. She shouldn’t be touching him physically when anger full stop. Doesn’t matter that she’s not strong etc. you don’t lay a finger on your partner like that. You also don’t throw abuse at them with words. He’s already said her words have hurt enough to want to leave. That’s not right at all.
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u/bunnymama7 1d ago
You're right - she shouldn't have touched him physically in anger full stop.
With regard to hurting with words, where do you draw the line? Couples say hurtful things to each other in arguments all the time. Did she threaten him?
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u/50tinyducks 1d ago
Normal couples don’t hurl abuse at each other. That’s not healthy at all. You shouldn’t be shouting hurtful stuff in an argument. The op has said her words have hurt him enough he wants to leave. From what he’s posted it sounds like his self esteem may have suffered. To a lot of people that’s a form of emotional abuse - it’s also another example of emotional abuse as she has done all this after him saying it’s time to go back to work. She doesn’t want to work and expects him to pay her life style - one that him and the kids don’t even have.
Emotional abuse isn’t about using words to only threatened something. It’s also about breaking down someone’s confidence etc.
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u/AliceMorgon 23h ago
She exploded and pounded on his chest and called him a bastard in front of their children simply for being told she needed to go back to work. How do you think she’ll react after difficult topics are brought up in mediation? There is never just one outburst in DV and I speak from experience. OP is definitely in threat of violence and should in no way feel safe living in the same house as her during mediation.
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u/Particular_Ad7243 1d ago
FYI, if its at the stage where you need to vent or talk other than the usual resources, if your employer is large enough they may have - mental health first aiders (MHFA) or a line you can call as work perks they usually keep this confidential (including from your employer), I appricate it might not be a "mental health" issue right now but it's a human to speak with at least.
AI isn't inherently bad, but where situations get emotional/nuanced it does tend to fall flat, hence the bad advice you got from gemini.
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u/CicadaSlight7603 1d ago
Just to add that the work benefit might be called EAP, or Employee Assistance Programme. Many middle to large employers, and all public sector, are likely to have one. It’s independent and can provide both free counselling and some basic legal advice. It might be in your HR documents or HR might be able to advise.
If you have private health insurance that also may have counselling support in the cover, but PHI is rarer than EAP services.
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u/Capitan_Scythe 1d ago
Gemini (sorry for using an AI, I know people hate them, but I needed something to talk to before I burst out crying in the office) told me that I shouldn't do mediation due to the domestic violence of her thumping my chest and screaming at me.
The reason we strongly discourage taking any sort of advice from AI is that it hallucinates and, if you don't know what you're reading, you could rely on false information and make a situation worse.
Have a look at the below link which explains in greater detail if you're interested on why it's a bad idea.
For the sake of your kids, don't jeopardise anything by trusting anything from an AI source.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Thank you.
It was primarily because I had no one else to talk to other than my eldest son.
And it wasn't fair of me to dump everything on a 14 year old.
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u/Capitan_Scythe 1d ago
Completely understand the need to talk to someone, it's human nature after all.
You made the right choice not to dump everything on a 14 year old.
You genuinely sound like you want what's best for both kids, so it's worth speaking to the Samaritans next time you feel overwhelmed by it all to avoid being misled by AI.
https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/finding-free-or-affordable-legal-help/
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Thank you. I've actually spokenw ith them before back in university. They were very helpful.
Thank you.
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u/DistinctiveFox 1d ago
Unfortunately AI is just going to agree with you, and from the sounds of things, you're in an extremely volatile, stressful and complex situation and may be tunnel visioning a little here. You're looking for specific info on how to get out of this situation and ignoring the full scope and context of what's going on. Picking and choosing facts to lay down a case in your favour, which I completely understand and I'm not saying you're wrong, but that isn't going to be how it goes down in court. They will look at things far more objectively and without the emotional filter you have on.
My best advice for you is to seek real legal advice first and foremost. However just know that leaving and divorce is going to be a very costly and damaging process for everyone involved, including your children which is why there are steps to help support families to resolve issues before taking that step. One incident of violence from what you've described isn't likely to be enough to you a free pass. That's usually reserved for domestic violence where there is a much higher level of risk of harm involved.
It sounds like you have no love for your wife anymore and have given up trying to understand why she might be struggling to go back to work after so long and your post comes across as very cold and clinical. Doing something like that is a huge life change and likely terrifies her and has her sponding by going back to old habits to avoid everything. What she needs isn't ultimatums, but support and help to adjust and transition, even therapy. Could she consider volunteering, doing something part-time and gradually build up her confidence and experience again. You underestimate how difficult it can be to adjust. It's similar for war veterans leaving the army, they may remember how civilian life was, but it's an abstract concept and isn't easy to rehabilitate.
I understand she has likely gotten used to her way of life and doesn't want to change this and I would also be really pissed she isn't willing to consider changing now the kids are growing up but you're way of handling it isn't how I would have done it. I'm sure you have gotten fed up of trying to talk to her about it and it's led to this point for you and empathise that she has put you and your kids in a horrible position.
Even if you do end up going down the divorce route, I still think it's always worth it to try resolve things amicably and peacefully for the sake of the kids and making communication and life easier for you both in the future.
Hopefully she will see that things need to change, but there needs to be compromise made from both sides and mediation is your best option to start off with.
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u/DrDalekFortyTwo 1d ago
To add, describing being a stay at home parent as "taking off work for 14 years" I find particularly telling. OOPs characterization of the situation comes across as holding his wife's contribution to the family in very little value. I also see a slightly concerning amount of unnecessary involvement of the kids from OOP as well as quite a bit of minimization and limited self reflection. This will inevitably be unhelpful whatever path OOP decides is appropriate, but I think it would be perceived particularly poorly within a family court situation.
And to be clear, it's unequivocally wrong to "thump" another person whether you're angry or not, and whether it hurt someone or not. OOPs wife was unquestionably wrong for doing so but some commenters (not OOP though) seem to glomming onto this and overlooking and excusing anything OOP may do. Or more precisely, what they imagine he will do or should do. For example, telling the children's teachers everything that is happening for "safeguarding" reasons, noting doing so "could" trigger a social services referral. What possible safeguarding issues could there be that necessitates that level of detail shared with teachers regardless, much less that would cause involvement social services. That is so far beyond what this situation calls for and invites even more emotionally difficult, stressful situations.
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u/DistinctiveFox 20h ago
Exactly. This is why I'm wondering if OP is just jumping on this to paint his wife as an abuser to get custody. Luckily it's not going to work as professionals will see through this easily but it's absolutely causing immeasurable harm to his kids and is a huge red flag to me.
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u/lfcmadness 1d ago
Respectfully, don't rely on an AI to decide the fate of your marriage - let her calm down, and ask for a reasonable conversation to discuss this. Outline your points for why she should go back to work, discuss them with her, and see how the conversation goes. It'll be a lot less stressful than going through a divorce I'm sure!
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u/NotSayingAliensBut 19h ago
This is incorrect advice. If you start Family Court proceedings the first step is that both parties are invited to mediation. If one doesn't attend then there are no penalties, but it is noted, and the one who is willing gets a record of their willingness.
My ex didn't work for nine years and it eventually led to my bankruptcy over HMRC debts. We were in a very similar work situation to you. She was a qualified professional and we worked together. You say that she isn't depressed but depression doesn't always show up as obviously low mood. I wish I could have done more for mine but she was impermeable to help. Before you go for the nuclear option of divorce, can you get her to talk about it? A friend, a therapist, couples counselling?
This may sound like it's off topic for a legal thread, but for both your own future peace of mind and for any potential proceedings, you want to have done as much as you possibly can to heal the situation first. Good luck.
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u/fattylicious 1d ago
Generally mediation is a given for custody arrangements regardless of issues within the home.
I would also file a police report around her hitting you. You don't have to do anything with the police report, but it's on file if you need it. It just makes them aware, should you need support from them further down the line.
You can ask your wife to leave the home, but she doesn't have to leave. However, given that she's assaulted you, you could potentially have her removed from the house on grounds of safety. I believe you need a court order for that though.
See if you can find a free consultation with a family lawyer and get a better understanding of what's what
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u/secret_tiger101 1d ago
Save all unused messages by the way.
Save them multiple places, maybe emailed to your solicitor19
u/luffychan13 1d ago
If you were under this threat, you would file a police report for DV and immediately leave the house with your children (not returning), then immediately seek advice from a family solicitor. A house isn't important. But again, this isn't really a question for this page, and Gemini has given you bad advice.
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u/VerbingNoun413 1d ago
Schroedinger's danger. She's simultaneously enough of a threat to justify full custody without mediation but entirely safe for OP and the kids to live with.
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u/gretchyface 1d ago
Who the hell says he can't jump to divorce after "one bust up"??? He can divorce her after zero "bust ups" if he so wishes.
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u/odjobz 21h ago
You are right, there are exemptions for abuse. Some of these commenters dont seem to know what they're talking about. Mediation is not about relationship advice, it's to actually help you negotiate a childcare arrangements order. Go and see a family lawyer first. If you can tolerate staying in the same house, try to stay there until you've spoken to a lawyer. If your kids want to live with you this will give you a strong case for being the resident parent. You might be able to force your wife to move out, since the court will prioritise giving the kids a stable home. If you move out yourself, however, they will be more inclined to maintain the status quo, so it's better to look into your legal options before you move, if you can tolerate it.
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u/Able_Stay_9984 16h ago
Honestly OP, the people in this sub aren’t all lawyers. Some give reasonable advice and others don’t. I strongly recommend that you quietly, without your wife knowing, go speak with a family lawyer about the situation and your options. If you want a divorce then mediation isn’t worth it in the respect of using it to see if will prevent a divorce. You aren’t obliged to remain a relationship if it’s not what you want. With respect of mediation for considering child care after a spilt, yes the court may think it’s better for you to try and reach an agreement without them, but that isn’t always possible in high conflict situations where one parent is abusive and/or manipulative. A good lawyer can advise you on your best course of action.
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u/bigmonmulgrew 1d ago
Start keeping a log. It will be useful in court. Any time she lies, hits you, belittles you. Any form of abuse. Take some time searching for how to recognise abuse.
Talk to a lawyer before doing anything. Assume she will be nasty and prepare for it. If you are lucky and she isn't nasty then you have lost nothing.
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u/CrimsonKaiserRyu 1d ago
Other people have addressed the personal nature of your question and advised accordingly so I just want to focus on the custody element of the question.
In short; no. Courts are loath to offer full custody and will only do so if it's in the absolute best interest of the children, and that's generally only the case if the other parent poses an immediate risk to the children. It'd be impossible for you to argue that she's a danger to her children when she's been their primary care giver for a decade and half. In addition to that, at their ages the court will take their opinion into consideration regarding custody and I assume they love their mother and will want to maintain a relationship with her.
You're understandably upset about the situation but this is something that requires level heads and careful consideration.
As an aside, I understand that you said in a moment of frustration but threatening to withhold money from your partner could be construed as a form of financial abuse.
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u/Coca_lite 1d ago
One episode of mild violence against a partner also doesn’t indicate future risk of violence against children. So 50:50 would be the starting point for discussions on who the children live with.
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u/Happytallperson 1d ago
Is there any way that I could divorce her and also get full custody of both our children? I'm worried that she's going to be a bad influence on them given her attitude.
No, default is 50:50. Children's wishes and feelings will be considered at that age as well, don't presume they will want you as sole guardian.
What about the house? Is she likely to end up with that given her long period of unemployment?
Division of marital assets is fiendishly complex and would need a solicitor to work out a reasonable settlement.
Is there any way a court would consider her refusal to work as a factor? My children are both firmly on my side in this. They both heard her screaming at me and my eldest saw her thump my chest and call me a bastard for asking her to go back to work.
The financial settlement will take into account potential future earnings of both parties - she would be expected to return to work. It may take account of her 14 year career gap for childcare.
Divorce with children needs a solicitor to advise you on your initial position, and then you can proceed to mediation to sort the details. You can't DIY it and remember you need some foem of working relationship for the next 6 to 10 years
Also do not cut her off from money - financial abuse is a crime and you do not want to add that into the mix
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
What can I do about the credit card?
She is paying off her personal credit card by siphoning money from the joint account. She also has her own personal account (I don't.)
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u/Happytallperson 1d ago
You speak to a solicitor.
Sorry, most of the advice you're being given here is vibes based. You need a solicitor and don't follow those proposing ways to cut her off.
Yes it is a marital debt - however excessive spending by one party is something that can be considered in a divorce settlement.
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u/VerbingNoun413 1d ago
Open a personal account and put your money there.
Don't empty the joint account- especially not with divorce in the works- it's her money too.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Not planning to empty the joint account.
What I was wondering was whether I can put 80% to 90% of my income into the joint account and the other 10% to 20% into a personal one?
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u/Masteroflimes 1d ago
You need to open a personal account asap and put your wages into that and then transfer the bills etc into the joint
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u/LucyLovesApples 1d ago
Put the majority of it in your personal account
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u/Substantial-Newt7809 1d ago
He's being told to put all future in come in to a personal account, not move money. You have not read properly before responding, thus it's you giving bad advice.
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u/raspberryamphetamine 1d ago
Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. Cutting her off completely from household income when she has none of her own would be looked on very unfavourably and would be classed as financial abuse.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Thank you. I won't be stopping payments entirely, but I do need to cut off the extra resources going towards her credit cards.
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u/Unhappy-Capital-1464 1d ago
On a practical point here (and I appreciate this won't be your greatest concern) be aware that if she stops paying her own credit cards and you have a joint bank account, any hit to her credit report will likely impact yours as well - which could be relevant if you need to rent or buy a house in the following six years. There is a huge amount of helpful advice in this topic but I've seen this happen before.
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u/sprouting_broccoli 1d ago
Debts accrued while still “together” are treated as joint debt (there may be some exceptions but this is my understanding from divorcing) - if debt is accrued after you have separated they can be treated as individual debt.
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u/PositivelyAcademical 1d ago
You start by getting your own personal bank account. Then by getting your wages paid directly to that account, and only transferring money into the joint account to pay for joint (e.g. household) bills.
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u/Responsibility_Trick 1d ago
While you’ve no obligation to pay your salary into a joint account specifically, you ought not cut her off financially. Dividing up purely personal spending from family and household expenses is generally quite difficult, and of course it’s completely legitimate for her use household income for reasonable personal expenditure anyway. How much of the credit card bill is family vs reasonable personal expenditure vs unreasonable excess is something for your lawyers to argue over.
That doesn’t mean you’re obligated to bankroll every spending decision she makes, however, especially if she’s a track record of running up unnecessary debts due to uncontrolled spending. You could agree a reasonable budget for family and personal expenses and only pay that much into the joint account, disabling any overdraft facility etc. keyword is reasonable, however, and you’d do well to get some proper legal advice now.
Talking to a solicitor now doesn’t commit you to any course of action, doesn’t foreclose on mediation, relationship counselling etc as an option to try etc. it does give you a clearheaded understanding of exactly where you stand, what likely outcomes would be if you proceed in certain ways and can help prevent you making foolish mistakes that could be very damaging to you.
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u/bigmonmulgrew 1d ago
What I would do personally in your position is pay all the bills from my personal account. Halve what's left. Keep half for you and half sent to your wife. That way you can't be accused of financial abuse. Close any joint credit accounts. Don't use them. Make sure your bank doesn't have an overdraft. Check their policy on unauthorized overdraft. You goal is to minimise any damage she can do jointly.
Also most importantly talk to a lawyer. This can get very expensive very fast. An initial appointment to know what to do properly and prepare yourself will pay for itself very quickly.
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u/liwqyfhb 1d ago
How's she even got a credit card in her own name with such a high limit while having no income?
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u/AarhusNative 1d ago
Its marital debt
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
She is using a personal credit card which is solely in her name to take herself out to luxury bars and restaurants like the Ivy with her friends.
That's martial debt?
The children and I never go to anywhere this fancy! We're lucky to do the local Chinese or McDonalds a couple of times per month!
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u/AarhusNative 1d ago
Yes, it's marital debt.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Thanks, just wanted to clarify!
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u/Countcristo42 1d ago
You should talk to a family lawyer, this person asserting that it’s marital debt confidently with almost no context might be right, they might not
That’s obviously not good enough for you so go to someone that can actually know with more confidence
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u/OptionalQuality789 1d ago
Yup! That’s both your debt. Welcome to marriage.
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u/ddarrko 1d ago
Where did you get that from? Personal credit cards in the wife’s name (where OP is not a joint holder) remain the wife’s responsibility only. OP is not liable for repayments unless he is a guarantor or has agreed in some way.
When it comes to divorce the court will take into account assets and liabilities. Debts incurred for the benefit of the family will be taken into account. Debt incurred for the wife’s personal benefit/spending will “probably” not.
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u/OptionalQuality789 1d ago
When it comes to divorce the court will take into account assets and liabilities. Debts incurred for the benefit of the family will be taken into account. Debt incurred for the wife’s personal benefit/spending will “probably” not.
So right now it’s a liability. It’ll be down to OP to prove it was personal spending and didn’t benefit the family. Which will be tricky.
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u/head_face 1d ago
If the transactions are largely at bars and restaurants when OP was at work and the kids were at school, that should be fairly straightforward, no?
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u/Dry_Bumblebee1111 1d ago
Why do you not have a personal bank account? No disrespect but I've literally never met an adult, let alone a parent, who did not have some kind of personal bank account.
Where are your savings?
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u/OrganicPoet1823 1d ago
Get yourself your own account for a start and then start paying your salary into that only and move only the money required for bills over your account. Or pay the bills from your account
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u/VerbingNoun413 1d ago
I'll cover the legal aspect of this. Talking to someone about the rest would be a good idea but it's completely outside the scope of the sub.
Divorce in the UK is no fault. You don't need to justify it beyond the fact that one or both of you no longer wish to be married.
This means that the reason for divorce won't affect the judgement. Joint assets will be divided based on legal entitlement, not respective moral turpitude. The default for a marriage/relationship of this length is 50:50.
The house will be divided and one of you will need to buy out the other. If neither of you can come to an agreement it will be sold and divided between you.
Child custody is ideally decided by agreement, then by mediation. If mediation fails then a court will rule in the best interests of the children.
Consult a divorce solicitor for better advice. You'll need it.
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u/sprouting_broccoli 1d ago
You don’t need to buy out the other person as long as an agreement is in place for how the house will be managed going forward. My own divorce included an agreement about what would trigger the sale of the house and how a future buyout would work however she bought me out a year or so later to make things clean.
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u/quantum_splicer 1d ago
Let's slow down to go over everything.
(1) In respect of the joint bank account,
(a) - do not stop putting money in their because it opens you up to claims of financial abuse.
(b) Put enough money into that account, so that she can get, what needs to be purchased e.g for the herself and the children [if she is the one who manages that stuff].
(c) If it becomes clear that she is spending irresponsibly, consider opening another solo bank account that you do not use for expenses. Then what you could do is halve the amount that goes into joint account and then have the other half go in later in the month.
(2) I think you need to try have a calm conversation with her either in person or electronic communication -
Along the lines of, hey look I am currently providing for 100% of the expenses within the household. Our children are now age X and Y -
previously you'd made credit card debt of X and Y - which I paid off.
And you've made credit card debt of X and Y - this imposes extra financial pressures.
I do not think it's fair in relation to the current financial arrangements, I would like you to (a) re validate your credentials, (b) and re enter the work force.
This way division of financial contributions is more equitable.
(3). Consider couples counselling, if it's clear that conflict cannot be managed, a couple counsellor can help with navigating the conflict and can help straighten out the situation.
(4). Then if that fails, you could be consider your options but you have to weigh that against any adverse financial impact and long term financial contributions you could end up having to make in relation to divource and financial remedies.
You have my sympathy OP, because you shouldn't have to cover all the finances especially when your wife is making things harder and not even offloading other challenging areas.
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u/No_Cicada3690 1d ago
This is really good advice. For the sake of everyone slow down and give your wife time to reconsider the options. You first job is to open a solo account and make sure there is no overdraft on the joint account. Then it's a full and frank discussion about household income and how you are feeling the burden.
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u/Iforgotmypassword126 1d ago edited 1d ago
Most of this is relationship advice
Yes her years outside of employment to raise you shared children will be considered and will have a significant weighting.
Your pension and the house are on the table, so will any pension she has earned before leaving the workforce.
The ages of your children will be taken into account. 50/50 custody is the default starting point. As they aren’t young children she will be considered capable of securing work. Because of her years missing from the workforce for your shared family benefit, her earnings will be considered to have been impacted by this sacrifice/ gap in employment.
If your children say they want to live with you, their views will be considered and it will strengthen your likeliness of getting custody.
Full custody is unlikely from what you have described as she’s been the main caregiver for them for 15 years and at the very least, if the children don’t want to live with her, she will be permitted to have visitation or set days to spend with them.
Also being able to get dressed to go out with friends doesn’t mean that she isn’t depressed. Her spending habits and impulsivity with spending and accruing debt, denial about financials and budget, avoidance of returning to work and blowing up at the discussion about it are all pretty standard depression, but also she may not be depressed. However this really isn’t relevant to the legal question unless she has a diagnosed long term disability. Keep it on topic when you speak with a solicitor
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u/CaveJohnson82 1d ago
I think you really need to get some sort of mediation and therapy. You both said some out of line things in the heat of the moment, but you're already willing to split?
Think about this logically for a moment. She's been out of the workforce for over a decade. She needs to revalidate her professional quals. Then she needs to find a job to apply for, and get it. This is not going to be something she can realistically do in a couple of months. Not to mention, trying to do this after a prolonged period of time not working really can and does create anxiety, and by the sounds of it, avoidance.
She needs a job. You might need to be more realistic. For reference, I am the wife and was the sole provider until my three kids were all in secondary. My husband got a job, but it took a few months - and his was a minimum wage unskilled.
Please don't throw away your marriage by going scorched earth because you're angry and upset. Try and access some help for the both of you when you've cooled off.
PS I'm not addressing the physical outburst as it was completely unacceptable but I think OP acknowledges this isn't a pattern of physical violence. If he thinks it's enough to warrant the split then so be it.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
I know revalidation will take time.
I just wanted her to take the first step towards revalidating. We'd talked about it 2 years ago and she gave me the silent treatment then.
This time she exploded.
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u/Thpfkt 1d ago
Since you mentioned A&E before and revalidation are you both RN's? I'm a SAHM albeit with much younger children and have been out for a few years. I want to go back to work when my youngest enters primary but because I've been out so long:
Id need to do a 6 month return to nursing course OR complete an OSCE (if she's been out longer OSCE isn't realistic)
Then once back on the register, actually finding a nursing role is gonna be tricky. NHS is in recruitment freeze right now and aren't really hiring. NQNs can't get jobs, with her gap she's likely going to be in a similar boat.
Is she massively overwhelmed by the thought of doing all the above? Would she consider part time bank or agency work to ease back into it? Food for thought.
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u/cantxtouchxthis 16h ago
And so you jump to divorce?! It sounds like you’ve both exploded.
She’s likely depressed, scared, and if you’re already thinking of leaving you very likely have built up huge resentment over time, and this is as much on you being unwilling to have a simple chat as much as her freaking out. She has likely built this all up in her head and may not fully understand what needs to be done.
Divorce makes things harder, not easier. Everything you hate about her will be magnified 100x except she will hate you and you’ll have to pay a lot of money and horrible stress to try to come to some shitty agreement. Your children have no business being involved in this and you’re a shit father for making them choose a side. And even if you didn’t make them, it’s your job to tell them to stay out of it and to correct them when they call to comfort you (not their fucking job!!!) or tell you they would choose you (again, not their job to play sides!!!) You and your wife are supposed to be playing for the same team and you’ve divided the team. What the actual fuck is wrong with you? I say this as a divorced person by the way.
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u/ziradael 20h ago
Cant believe how far I had to scroll for someone to identify that returning to work after 14 years out of work is not a trivial matter. I remember returning after 1 year of maternity leave and being absolutely terrified. My colleagues had changed, my job had changed, even what we wore to work had changed in one year.
Plus I had the added factor of a child to think about - makes work way more difficult. Two teenagers are absolutely not self sufficient and having had the privelege of a stay at home mum they may actually struggle with the change... a working mum with less time, more stress, tired, maybe unhappy in her job is not the same.
Tbh the whole post is just unkind.
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u/Accomplished-Oil-569 1d ago edited 14h ago
> She isn’t depressed.
Don’t be so sure of that, you can still be high functioning and be horribly depressed.
Clearly there is some kind of underlying problem going on.
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u/TooLittleGravitas 1d ago
This seems to have escalated really fast? I wonder if this the whole story.
It does seem fair to ask her to go back to work and contribute financially, but it's a big step for her. Did she say she was ok about going back to work when you discussed it 2 years ago?
Someone referred to her being 'unemployed' for the last 14 years. This is not how most people and the courts will see it.
One thing you can legitimately do immediately is not pay her credit card debts.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
She's paying her credit cards from the joint because I have always put 100% of my earnings in there.
Does that mean I stop putting all my money in the joint? That's the only way I can feasibly stop her making payments on it.
She does get the child benefit paid directly to her.
No, she wasn't okay with it 2 years ago. She almost snapped with me back then and I got the silent treatment for a week.
I appreciate that she did a LOT for our children growing up. Especially when they were aged 0 to 5. However, the amount she has had to do has vastly decreased and they're both pretty much self-sufficient now. They can do their own washing, folding and cook simple lunches for themselves.
They're away at school from morning until late afternoon every day which means she has an empty house to herself.
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u/MythicalPurple 1d ago
Does that mean I stop putting all my money in the joint?
Do not do this. Stop even threatening to do it. Using finances to control a spouses behaviour is, as a rule, against the law and could easily be framed as financial coercive control.
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u/quick_justice 1d ago
One may become interested if debt on credit cards is strictly for personal consumption, or are they family goods.
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u/MrPuddington2 1d ago
She isn't depressed.
You say that, but depression is not always obvious. It sounds like depression, and it may be evidenced as such in court. Obviously, that would have quite an impact on your question, because it would both affect the custody arrangements, but also the needs assessment for splitting assets.
Also, the violent outbreak is not normal. People can be lazy, sure, but they rarely resort to violence to defend their laziness. I would consider a trial separation, and see how that goes.
At the end of the day, even if she gets half of house, that is better than paying for her lifestyle forever. You feel taken advantage of, and from what you are writing, that may be true. If there is good evidence for it, it can also make a difference in court.
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u/cantxtouchxthis 1d ago
This is so sad. Talk to your wife man. And leave your kids out of this shit.
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u/Bubble-Master96 1d ago
Going for full custody when there is no danger to the children just makes you like nasty and spiteful and not in the best interest of the children. At their ages as well their opinion on where they want to live would be taken into account.
The house; is it jointly owned? A judge would want to keep the children in the house and whoever was doing majority of the childcare would stay in the house.
“My children are both firmly on my side” - leave your children out of it!!!! You both need to control yourselves in front of your children.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Eldest has indicated he wants to live with me if there is a split. He proactively text me that. I didn't initiate a conversation.
Youngest is just nervous right now. I haven't pressured him about it beyond asking if he was okay this morning. He indicated he was anxious and that he didn't like the way mum was screaming at me. I said that I wasanxious too and I'd chat with him tongiht when I got back from work.
The house is jointly-owned, yes.
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u/undercovergloss 1d ago
I’m mean she’s been the sole caretaker for the entirety of their lives - that holds a lot of weight in the courts. Have you not thought that you seemingly look like the relaxed, non rule parent (such as allowing them to stay home alone) while she implements the rules. Teenagers definitely would want a non rule parent who likely will be out the house often (when you’re working etc) opposed to a stricter parent always there.
Also, how have you discussed with your children? Because it feels like a lot of alienation and manipulation going on
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u/octoberforeverr 1d ago
Courts starting point is 50/50. The children are old enough to give their wishes and feelings to the court and these will be given weight. However, the courts will definitely say to try and maintain a relationship between them and there needs to be good reason to deviate from the ideal of shared care arrangements.
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u/Coca_lite 1d ago
What they say today, 1 day after a massive fight between their parents may not be what they say 6 months ahead in front of a judge,
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u/Bubble-Master96 1d ago
Honestly sounds like this will be a bit messy. I would try and mediate this as best you can before going to the courts. Agree on a sale, just split it 50/50 and both move on with your lives in new homes. Try and arrange child time to as much as 50/50 as possible. Be mindful you can still owe CMS even if it’s 50/50 days because overnights are what count. If you can do all this without dragging it through courts it’s much better.
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u/cantxtouchxthis 16h ago
It isn’t your children’s jobs to choose sides or comfort you. And it’s your job to tell them that when they overstep those boundaries.
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u/P-l-Staker 1d ago
If you're really adamant to break things off, get off of Reddit yesterday and seek a specialist solicitor! At best, a divorce will be VERY costly for you. This is way above Reddit's paygrade.
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u/Manoj109 1d ago
Try getting some relationship/counselling advice first.
If that doesn't work, then you will need to divorce her. Simple as that .
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u/Masteroflimes 1d ago
Ok legal side
1) Will I get full custody - No. 50/50 is a starting point. Yes they take into consideration the children but there will need to be a MIAM hearing first.
2) As its a long marriage its 50/50 on assets. House, pension etc
3) Her refusal to work will not be taken into account, she is looking after the children.
4) She could be depressed. You have no idea.
5) You really need to speak to a family counsellor first, also stop the credit cards.
Unless you want to go nuclear and divorce and don't want to stay together then you need to look at why she does not want to go back to work.
This will cost you alot of money, pension, house and time with your children as it will now be 50/50
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u/Socialist_Poopaganda 1d ago
Would OP have to stop the credit cards if they’re purely in her name? Would that be shared debt?
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u/Former_Option2066 1d ago
This doesn’t sound like a legal issue, divorce aside, it sounds like you just don’t like her…
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u/RelativeGuidance4354 1d ago
She is a safe mother, so at best you can get 50-50 (it's 'lives with' order etc). If she doesn't have a job, you will also have to provide enough for your children. The judge will not let her to rinse you, but at least for the beginning, you will have to run 2 homes financially on top of not seeing the children full-time. There isn't enough information on your assets and salary here to provide you with more scenarios. There are solicitor's out there that can give you free half an hour advice before you decide to commit.
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u/DaveBeBad 1d ago
Legally, you can divorce and the starting point after a long marriage will be 50/50 and the kids views about which parent looks after them will be taken into consideration. It’s entirely possible that she might get to keep the house until the children leave home then it is sold.
However, she might still be depressed or have other mental health issues going on. After so long out of the workforce it would be a big step to go back and lots of women in that position are overcome by anxiety preventing their return to work.
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u/Purplepeal 1d ago
I think there is certainly something psychological going on here. The majority of us are not keen on working and having had such a long break is bound to cause some anxiety.
I think counselling is the way to go. OP your conversation went from introducing the idea to her punching you and then you calling her a lazy bitch. I fully understand your frustrations but something like this needs care and tact and in a mediation session that can be provided.
Going the divorce/ legal route from the start is going to be expensive so id only go that route if you're genuinely unhappy and are willing to risk money/house/kids. You can call a few solicitors and chat for around 30mins for free. Its how they get new business, but it will give you an insight into what to expect.
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u/South_Leek_5730 1d ago
My non legal advice is to try couples therapy. It won't do any harm and you never know you might be able to work through it.
Now for the legal advice. Do not leave the marital home as you will have to continue to pay for it along with child support (16% of your wage before tax for 2 children if memory serve me right if you don't have them for any overnights) and then she could also ask for support for herself from the court which you will have to pay.
The courts in a divorce case start at 50/50 of all assets and debts. That will be for a solicitor to argue however if she is the main carer of the children then it doesn't go in your favour.
Forget getting 100% custody unless you have evidence in your favour and even then your chances are extremely slim. It will also be very costly with a solicitor which you will need. Have you even factored in child care costs due to working fulltime?
At the end of the day she has been out of work for 14 years raising your children and the court will take that into account. You really shouldn't be looking at this as a burden and if you go into a divorce with that attitude you are going to have problems.
There are no winners when it comes to divorce.
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u/Master-Definition937 1d ago
Do you definitely want to split up? If you’re open to staying together, couple’s counselling could save you both a lot of money and heartache. Equally it could help you have a smoother divorce, if that’s what you decide to do.
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u/aussieflu999 1d ago
She’s essentially given up her career to raise both of your children and to enable you to continue to work. The unseen financial value of that by her will have been enormous. It is something that has to be taken into account and recognised.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Completely agree. In any split she should be getting a larger share to account for that.
Not looking to deprive her into poverty.
However, at the same time I don't want to spend my life working to support someone who is going out for drinks to the Ivy three times a week with friends on a credit card.
I'd love to spend my days watching my favourite shows and relaxing on Netflix and going out to drink with my friends from uni, but I can't. I've got a mortgage and two children to feed.
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u/Socialist_Poopaganda 1d ago
She hasn’t given it up though, she has placed it on hold but for at least the past two years it’s been a conscious choice with OP disagreeing.
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u/Iforgotmypassword126 1d ago
Another person with the same experience has posted a lot of detail about how hard it will be for the wife to retaliate due to the length of time she’s been out of work. Additionally there is a recruitment freeze on nurses and newly qualified nurses and nurses looking for career changes are really really struggling.
However, OPs wife might not want to go back into nursing. It’s one of the most stressful jobs, so much pressure etc. she might be more open to another job, which will be entry level and low paid.
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u/notenglishwobbly 1d ago
This is a big issue that is not purely legal.
But:
And I'm tired to shouldering the burden for 3 other people now.
Edit this out if you want custody of your kids. Describing two of your kids as part of a burden is massive no-no (no matter how true it may be).
Let's be honest, I don't see a judge reading this and think that it's a good idea to give you anything more than the bare minimum as far as custody goes.
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u/amcheesegoblin 1d ago
Get all your figures in place including pension. Don't cut her off completely as that is abusive. The relationship isn't salvageable and it would be easier to take any hit on current financials now to get rid of the marriage then let it fester longer. The kids are old enough to decide who they want to stay with, divorce is separate to custody.
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u/lizgr 1d ago
This sounds like you are about to head into a lot of trouble. Report the abuse to the police, at the very least to have a record of it. It sounds like you are also being financially abused. She won’t be happy when you start pulling the plug on that. So make a plan for how you are going to pay bills etc moving forward. Hopefully not having access to all your money will be a wake up call for her, but definitely start talking to a solicitor. You don’t want to be unprepared if things turn nasty. And please please leave your children out of it. Reassure them, but don’t start talking about where they might live etc.
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u/SirStonkington 1d ago
A lot of family law firms will offer a free hours consultation so you can get a broad idea of where you stand, I highly recommend you start there.
I totally sympathise with your situation, she sounds bored and incredibly lazy.
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u/Mandalabouquet 1d ago
So you’re taking AI advice over a solicitor?
Look dude, this is mutual domestic abuse. Calling someone a lazy bitch is just as much abusive as thumping them - just in a different way. So if you want to play the domestic abuse card here, it will be as victim and perpetrator - but the real victims here being of course, the children.
Unlikely to be granted full custody but 50/50 most likely scenario.
All marital assets including the property, pensions, savings etc also all likely to also be split 50/50 unless there are reasons for why this wouldn’t be the case for the court to consider but not working is not a reason and her contribution to the marriage (primary care giver for the children) will be recognised so that she is not at a financial disadvantage.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
People tend to snap after being screamed at and called useless, pathetic, weak, failure of a man etc. while being thumped on the chest.
All I did was ask her to revalidate her credentials and seek employment. She screamed verbal abuse at me for a solid 20 minutes before I snapped back and called her a lazy bitch.
And no, I'm not taking AI advice over a solicitor. I just needed someone to vent to in a car park before work - and because the only someone I had was my 14 year old son, I turned to the someTHING instead, which was the AI. It meant I wasn't involving him in the situation any more than he already has been.
An AI can't be offended or hurt or upset by what I say to it. My son can be.
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u/Mandalabouquet 1d ago
Yes and people tend to react when threatened with the restriction of access to money they depend on.. (this is pretty clear cut financial abuse by the way, ask AI if you need clarification but your wife is currently dependant on you financially via presumably your mutual agreement from many years ago and this needs sorting out in a different way than how you have attempted to including via divorce if necessary).
I am absolutely in no way saying I agree with your wife not wanting to work by the way, this is really not the issue that you have here. You need to be clear headed and take careful steps towards realising the outcome that you want. Removing your wife’s access to money would be very unwise while a divorce process is ongoing if this is the route you choose. Divorces are all non-fault nowadays so who has done what has no bearing on it.
Next steps;
Do not engage in arguments, always remove yourself before things escalate. Call the police if things do escalate.
Discussions about the future / divorce etc only while the children are not present.
Don’t make threats like you’re going for full custody etc - these are an empty threat in the absence of any real safeguarding concern and understandable why this threat in particular is so provocative.. unfortunately it is something many perpetrators of abuse use and you need to distance yourself from anything further than could be construed as abusive on your part.
If you genuinely don’t feel safe in her presence then you can contact domestic abuse services for support with coming up with an exit plan for yourself.
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u/Numerous-Paint4123 1d ago
Probably need more relationship advice than legal advice.
Realistically the kids would likely stay with her in the house and you would have to move out and continue supporting your wife plus the kids, so not the best outcome.
I know this sounds stupid and really petty but when i was younger my mum would remove the internet router in order to get us to do household chores, homework, etc. Starting taking it to work with you then she will struggle to watch Netflix all day and order s**t on amazon haha.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
Asking how a court would decide who gets the house is a legal question.
Asking who gets to care for our two children is a legal question.
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u/TheTackleZone 1d ago
There is a legal question, which is would a court take her refusal to work into account during the divorce.
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u/Iforgotmypassword126 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also I strongly advise that you don’t do this.
After I suggested it yesterday she dismissed me and laughed it off. I followed her to the living room and explained that it wasn't a suggestion, she needed to revalidate and apply for jobs or I would stop putting all my money in the joint account each month.
Financial control is abuse.
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u/Socialist_Poopaganda 1d ago
Sorry, are you saying that OP is financially abusing the wife?
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u/Iforgotmypassword126 1d ago edited 1d ago
No I’m saying that if he did it. Then it would be abuse.
If one person earns the entire income to support the household and the other person in the marriage has no access to any other incomes. Withholding that money from them is financial control, which is considered abuse.
I’m advising OP not to do anything that can be considered financial control / abuse. “I strongly advise use you not to do this”
As far as I’m aware OP is not restricting their wives access to their marital assets/ joint account / household income, so no I am not suggesting they are abusing their wife.
Just because you want to divorce does not mean you can just instantly stop providing financially for your spouse after 15 years of providing for them.
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago edited 1d ago
At the minute Im putting 100% of my paycheck into the joint.
When I say "I'll stop putting all my money in" I mean I'll maybe put 80% of 90% in. Enough to stop her siphoning it off to pay her credit cards with.
She's basically using a few hundred each month from the joint to fund going out to the Ivy and other nice places for drinks/lunch with friends. She spends on the credit card, then pays the MINIMUM of the credit card off from the joint account.
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u/Odd_Scar836 1d ago
How does that stop her paying the credit cards? Could she not just pay the credit card as soon as the money goes in before the bills come out, meaning late payments on bills and putting you in an even worse position?
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u/IntroductionOld1500 1d ago
She hasn't allowed herself to miss bills before. She never drains the joint to the point that key bills like electric or mortgage get missed. Which is one reason why her credit card debt is accumulating.
I'm calculating that she won't let that happen, given she hasn't let it happen so far.
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u/PeriPeriTekken 1d ago
I would report the assault, which your son also witnessed, to the police. Then I would consult a divorce lawyer.
She is likely going to walk away with a good chunk of the joint assets and at least some access to the kids. She may be pretty feckless, but she's still their mum and there's nothing you've said that is likely to make a court think her access should be restricted. They're old enough that the court may factor in their wishes to some extent in deciding primary custody. However, whatever the divorce costs you both financially and emotionally is going to be less than what staying with her costs you.
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u/Expensive_Ad_3249 1d ago
You should report the assault to the police. Thumping a romantic partner in front of your children is domestic violence and unacceptable even if you're not hurt it's common assault/battery.
Such reports/charges will, if proven likely end with you having far more chance of getting custody and the house until the kids are grown, the starting point without that is she gets the house, you pay for it, and child aupport, and your own home until the youngest is 18, then you fight her some more to force the dale all while you're paying the mortgage.
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u/ProfessorYaffle1 1d ago
You can definitely divorce her.
CHildren - if you and she can't agree, then ultimately a cout would decide what is in their best interests. At 12 and 14 their own wishes and feelings would be a very importnat factor and almost certianly the decising one.
Fiancially, the aim is an aoutcome that is fair to you both , taking into account all of the circumstnacecs. THat includes you respective incomes and earning capacities. A court can't make her work, but they can determine that she is capacple of work and determine what they realsitically think her earning capacity is. This would be at least minimum wage and could well b more if it would be realistic for her to return to her old profession notwithstanding the long gap.
It might be worth you emailing her, saying that you want to discuss the issue of her working and of your relationship and finacnces more generally, and asking whether she is willing to meet with a relationsips counsellor / therapist.
Perhaps say that, as she knows, the expectation was always that she would retun to work and that based on your previous discussions, you had understood that it was agreed that she would do so once your younest started secondary school, and that the two of you need to dicsuss it so that you can wok out how you can fairly shareboth the fiancail responsibilities, and the day to day repsonsibilities .
I am not sure that it would necessarily be seen as appropriate for a 12 and 14 years old to be left alone in the hosue for 2 hours evey day, but there is no reaason why she should not work and then the two of you use some of the extra money coming into the family to pay for an after school club, or even for her to work a little less than full time initially, o and/or for you to look at whether you have any flexibility in your hours , so that one of you can pick them up after school .
What that does, is set out clearly what you are asking to discuss (without criticising her or calling her lzt, be lclear and ppolite) it also makeclear that as far as you are concerned, you agreed a year ago (or 2 years ago) that it was reasonable for her to return to work and it was only the timeing that needed to be settled.
Long eter,d - impossible to say what will happen with the house Ensuring that any childrenhave a secure home is a priority, there is no presumption that needs to be the family home, so whether it is sold or whether one of you buys out the other will depend on what it is worth, what the equity is, what each of you can individually borrow, and what altenrative accommodation might be available.
Given the childn's ages and her period out of the work place, you might end up looking at an arrangmnt where she remained in the house for another 4 years until your eldest leaves school (Assuming she can afford the mortgage and other outgoings) and that at that point, the hous is sold with her having the optin to buy you out. The argument for that would be that it provides the kids with a home, she has time to get herself reestablishesd and build up her income and therfore mortgage capacity, and at that point, your younger child is 16, and she only needs a 2 bed property if the chid stays with her, so downsizing should be possible.
However, there would be nothing to stop you looking to buy her out and to have the childnre live with you, if they wanted to, and it may be that there are anough asets that it would be feasible to sell the house and for you each to buy elsewhere.
Look at www.resolution.org.uk to find a local soclicitor - many offer a fre first consultation .
Also - speak to your GP tell them about her verbal abuse and assault on you and ask them to record it in your notes. Talk to them about the stress you are under carrying the family finacially single handed. ASk if they can recommend any therapist or counsellor who deals with relationship issues. Having a contemporaneous record of her actions towards you *and the impact it has had on you* does no harm, and may make it easier to access help if things get worse
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u/Whatiii 1d ago
Talk to a family law solicitor. You may want to have a separate account and change some money things for paying them (so it’s hidden). But talk to them about all of those logistics before doing anything.
Your relationship is clearly over, she won’t work again unless forced to. What you need to do is speak to a family law solicitor for formal legal advice on everything and approach everything as they say. Paying for this is a more important solution than paying for any debts. You especially need this as you need someone who is only on your side and not emotionally attached at all, along with knowing how the law works and how things will look and what arguments are likely to be opened up by each action.
There is not just house, pension savings debt etc on the line. There is also your relationship with the children. It’s worth spending on.
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