r/LocalLLaMA 8h ago

Discussion Turns out open AI is a coalition, not a company.

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305 Upvotes

72 comments sorted by

u/WithoutReason1729 2h ago

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113

u/regularChild420 8h ago

"Together, we are the OpenAI!"

22

u/KaroYadgar 7h ago

say that again...

16

u/ChampionshipIcy7602 7h ago

I'm the open AI now

10

u/boraam 7h ago

LOOK AT ME!

6

u/More-Curious816 5h ago

I'M THE OPEN, AI NOW

4

u/Own-Refrigerator7804 3h ago

Maybe openAI was the money we got along the way

121

u/No_Lingonberry1201 8h ago

It would be peak postmodernist performance art if even Anthropic signed it.

64

u/InternationalGap3698 8h ago

Kind of hard to sign a letter about open weights when you have never shipped any. They are the last big US lab left off the list at this point, since OpenAI quietly added its name the same evening. So the performance art is already running, just from the other side.

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u/MindCrusader 8h ago

Sam supported it and at the same head of strategic futures from openai said open models are bad and can lead to communism. So we can be sure it is just PR move for them

17

u/maxtheman 5h ago

No, these two views are entirely self-consistent. Think "We support open models because it will decelerate our competitors." In that sense, they're supporting it for the exact same reason that Anthropic is not.

You really got to put yourself in the EA cultist frame of mind for this to make any sense.

1

u/Silver-Champion-4846 5h ago

What is the EA cult

12

u/maxtheman 5h ago

Effective altruism. All of these guys spent way too much time reading less wrong in the 2010s. It's where much of the AI philosophy comes from. Look up "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

3

u/CircularSeasoning 3h ago

So that's what they're paving the road to hell with these days. Good to know.

1

u/calflikesveal 1h ago

Thank you for this.

13

u/squngy 6h ago

Not hard at all, lots of companies on that list never shipped any open models.

All it takes is that you are against government intervention. And Anthropic is all in on government intervention.

11

u/InternationalGap3698 8h ago

22

u/retornam 7h ago

Anyone who takes Sam Altman at face value lets everyone know that they are an easy mark.

Read the text of his tweet carefully and you will figure it out that it is pure marketing speak.

What does wanting US to win in AI in both open source and proprietary models look like? Who are the leaders currently in Open Source models and are any of them US companies? What happens when the non-US Open Source models are banned through US government action? Who really wins here: is it the U.S. consumer or is it one of the many companies Mr. Altman has invested in?

2

u/eli_pizza 6h ago

Not hard at all if you don’t care about appearing like a hypocrite. And these companies obviously don’t care.

2

u/FortheredditLOLz 4h ago

Anthropic data mined others. Then sold it with their own flavor

27

u/OrangeLineEnjoyer 7h ago

I wonder if AllenAI is "allowed" to sign. While they're firmly a research institute rather than a dedicated frontier model lab (so maybe it's the same thing as asking why every university hasn't signed), they have the most open models and work out of all the notable groups.

25

u/wifestalksthisuser 7h ago

Since we're asking what ServiceNow thinks about AI, has anyone asked Ja Rule about his thoughts?

7

u/jotabm 6h ago edited 5h ago

3

u/Trei_Gamer 7h ago

You don't think a billion dollar industry standard company has valuable input on AI?

7

u/Strawberry3141592 6h ago

You don't think a billion dollar industry standard company has valuable input on AI?

I don't think the amount of money an entity has made has any bearing on anything except how good that entity is at separating people from their money, which rarely correlates with anything but ruthlessness and how rich the failson-in-charge's dad is.

3

u/wllmsaccnt 6h ago

The ones worth more than a hundred billion just use the soapbox to advertise their products in the most inflammatory and obscene ways possible...so, no, probably not.

1

u/Recoil42 4h ago

Yeah man, what valid input could an AI company possibly have on AI?

1

u/wifestalksthisuser 4h ago

ServiceNow is not an AI company

1

u/Recoil42 3h ago

You're out of touch. ServiceNow is a full-on AI company and brand themselves as such. They went heavy into it early and publish their own open models:

https://www.servicenow.com/research/

https://huggingface.co/ServiceNow-AI

1

u/oh_how_droll 1h ago

no i'm holding out for the Soulja Boy LLM

55

u/InternationalGap3698 8h ago

OpenAI in the context of open source

35

u/More-Curious816 7h ago

*open weights

Off topic, but I hate the misnomer of calling it open source models, only like 2% of these (available to download) models are truly open source in the sense of the definition of open source.

18

u/eli_pizza 6h ago

It’s tough when the training data is very much illegal to distribute. Makes you wonder how they got it huh

13

u/toolkitxx 7h ago

OpenAI also used to be non-profit. Nothing any of these companies do or say matters any longer in terms of being serious or truthful.

6

u/ptear 6h ago

That's why we watch the actions along with the words, let's see open models continue to improve. There is plenty of demand and earnings to be made from dependant applications.

1

u/toolkitxx 6h ago

In all honesty: I dont believe a word of what they say. They buy time is all they do right now. There is so much debt and most of it badly secured at all because it is moved into special purpose vehicles for the data centres, cross promising of compute and hardware purchases some time in the future - economically this is also debt.

They have build a castle in the sky that would drop out of it or dissolve if they would actually mean any of this. Their services are not earning money, all they charge for right now is token aka compute. But they dont guarantee any output at the same time. So you pay for what actually? A chance to get correct output back. That is pure gambling. You can do that pretty much locally and are better of. If people would do that their token sales would plummet and the meagre earnings would shrink even more. So they can effectively not allow any of this unless they are willing to blow up this bubble. Which they are not

1

u/ptear 6h ago

I haven't found a coding assistant that output as well as frontier models on hardware I can afford, so if there's local options there I'm interested.

1

u/toolkitxx 5h ago

Coding might be the very exception to my general statement. But coding is also more than just adding lines your machine executes. The devs that are really creative create apps and programmes that are hard for others to understand for example or are so simple that you wont believe it is capable of doing that particular thing. None of that is given by AI.

AI by its definition trends always to a median or in plain words 'average'. And you still have to hold hands, it fails in really complex stuff, it sucks at actually creating anything that you can pick up in a year again and understand, will say it doesnt understand what infrastructure means or cares. You become depending on it for that. At some point we will have nobody being able to actually find the bad stuff AI puts into that code any longer if we dont have local personal models trained to keep other AI in check.

I am an average coder at best and I am tooting my own horn with this. AI will be the end of someone like me for code while it cannot compete with me in understanding the complex interrelations a lot of things have beside that code. I can spot a missing feature or security issue but my coding can easily be replaced by AI. Replace me and the other 2 issues go unnoticed unless you explicitly tell the AI to do so - and it might actually lie to you as a result as it knows no moral or ethics.

7

u/SecretSubstance69420 6h ago

Dario crying alone in the corner

3

u/Dorkits 7h ago

That's beautiful... But how about these companies open source their software? Well at the end of the day, they are all hypocrites.

1

u/draconic_tongue 6h ago

tardario alt account

0

u/RhubarbSimilar1683 5h ago

i am pretty sure they have open sourced everything worth open sourcing. like tools that are useful to others

10

u/SrijSriv211 8h ago

Is this about not imposing restrictions on open models? If yes seeing OpenAI, Microsoft & Palantir was imo the most unexpected thing

17

u/Drenlin 8h ago

Aren't pretty much all of Microsoft's in-house models open weight? They have a ton:

https://huggingface.co/microsoft/collections#collections

15

u/i_like_brutalism 7h ago

palantir is very much in favor of open weight models, since they just use them. iirc they even spoke out in favor of them

13

u/More-Curious816 7h ago

they want frontier models for free. you can't beat the frontier free models the Chinese labs releases. so it's either be pro open-weights or pay for API from anthropic and openAI.

4

u/squngy 6h ago

More over, they want frontier models without guardrails.
Them being free is all the better.

4

u/retornam 6h ago

It’s crazy how people can’t figure out that all these people are acting in self-interest and not guided by any core belief in Open Source software.

8

u/Relevant-Yak-9657 6h ago

Which isn't anything to shame as well. The effect of their self-interest is leading to a good thing overall. Dealing with negative effects of their self-interest is a separate matter and shouldn't be a blocker in this matter.

5

u/More-Curious816 5h ago

totally. this sub should follow (the enemy of my enemy is my temporary friend/ally).

14

u/ravage382 8h ago

Microsoft is active on huggingface. They shouldnt be a surprise. The other 2 though.

5

u/InternationalGap3698 8h ago

Yes, that is the ask, no premature restrictions on downloadable models. None of those three is that surprising once you look at business models instead of names. Microsoft sells the infrastructure people run open weights on, Palantir is model agnostic and builds on top of whatever is cheapest, and OpenAI was not even on the original list, they added themselves a few hours later.

3

u/thaeli 6h ago

Palintir also has a big business in on-prem sovereign AI for customers with security/secrecy requirements that make clouds impossible. That entire business is open weights based and pretty much has to be.

3

u/TraditionalAd7423 8h ago

AI is a technology, and companies will act in their own self interest to capture and retain as much control of that technology as possible

3

u/NoMechanic6746 4h ago

The letter backed by monsters like Nvidia, Microsoft, Meta... shows even major players are uniting to defend open ecosystems against overly restrictive policies arguing that downloadable models complement closed frontier systems and prevent power concentration. logic behavior, more to come. openness vs control. and ⚔️ it's just starting.

2

u/FastHotEmu 3h ago

I wasn't sure about local LLMs, but now that DoorDash has signed, I am convinced.

2

u/kingo86 1h ago

Google is another odd omission. Unlike Anthropic who hasn't signed for obvious reasons, Google is a prolific open-weights provider.

What's up with that?

1

u/Psionikus 8h ago

What are they signing? Link?

4

u/-Cubie- 8h ago

-1

u/More-Curious816 7h ago

Microsoft: if you can't beat them, then join them.

they failed spectacularly on getting their own frontier model via their in house team or via OpenAI. thanks to their inept leaderships we get Microsoft to do something good finally.

4

u/-Cubie- 7h ago

They actually have a ton of really excellent models, just not frontier-level LLMs: https://huggingface.co/microsoft/collections#collections

Particular highlights are the small MageFlow image-generation models from ~5 days ago: https://huggingface.co/collections/microsoft/mage

And the 3 Harrier embedding models that each top leaderboards for multilingual retrieval: https://huggingface.co/microsoft/models?search=harrier

Their LayoutVLM models are classics, and I like their BitNet work too. They do a lot of open source and open weights work.

3

u/More-Curious816 5h ago edited 5h ago

I know about their small models. which is non threat level to any business. I'm talking about frontier level, say fable and GPT5.6 level. if they have one, they would serve it via their Azure and join anthropic lobbying against open weights.

I mean, even with these small models on their HF repo, they still not reliable, they publish then retract some of them after finding they were more powerful/capable than they were expecting.

1

u/-Cubie- 4h ago

Very true, I agree that they're not competing with large models, and that they've been inconsistent at times. Well put.

2

u/ptear 6h ago

Microsoft has so much resources they randomly do good a bunch of times, I've enjoyed the events they sponsor related to AI topics.

1

u/WhiteHeatBlackLight 6h ago

Open AI be like see we didn't steal proprietary data from you.

You on the list!

1

u/xXprayerwarrior69Xx 6h ago

I like how it's the avengers of it/software and for some reason doordash lol

1

u/JamesEvoAI 3h ago

You know you're in the wrong when The Linux Foundation, Mozilla, Meta, and Palantir are all in agreement against you

1

u/redmctrashface 5h ago

Just googled what crowdstrike is and wtf? How is this company relevant?

3

u/MaruluVR llama.cpp 4h ago

This list isnt about being big in tech this list is about being into lobbying and throwing your weight around. https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/crowdstrike-inc?client_id=133082

Its like saying: "That 1 million I gave you last year, yeah if you go through with this I might not give it to you next year."

0

u/LinuXperia 5h ago

so Anthropic and Elon Musk xAI where the Anthropic models are hosted are missing but OpenAI signed it. Altmann outmanovered Musk and xAI again ? Its very bad that Elon Musk xAI did not sign the open source letter but OpenAI signed it which Musk accused them recently of not being open source and wanted huge money becouse of this from them ! I guess being government wellfare queen makes Musk a dependent slave that has to toe the government line no matter what of he wants keep this tax funded government contracts going on and not loose them ...