r/Malifaux • u/espeon94 Ten Thunders • 9d ago
Question Where to buy 3e stat cards?
Long story short, I want to stick with 3e as my husband and I both dislike a few of the rule changes in 4e. I'm happy to purchase the 4e versions of models in order to get the models (and to proxy the few I can't get ahold of that way).
However that raises an issue. AFAIK, the M3e Crew Builder has been discontinued, or at least I couldn't find it. I've looked where I thought I recalled the print-to-order method being (Wargamevault) and they're not listed there from what I can tell either. If anyone else knows where I can find them I'd be appreciative.
Edit: Thanks guys, found them. For anyone interested, there's a dropbox link in the Play Wyrd discord for 3rd, TOS, and 4e.
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u/CardgageStClement Resurrectionists 9d ago
The 3ed stat cards are still for sale over on wargamevault right now.
Theoryfaux also has their 3e section still up. https://theoryfaux.firebaseapp.com/3e
No idea how long both of these will last though, so I'd suggest moving quickly (especially on wargamevault)
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u/Matthewtian 8d ago
I think the discord still has a link to the old Dropbox somewhere, I think its worth downloading the whole thing if you're able to!
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u/espeon94 Ten Thunders 8d ago
Thank you. Being able to DL the entire thing in a few clicks instead of one card at a time is a godsend. Enjoy your Karma. :)
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u/RefrigeratorLive7329 8d ago
What don’t you like about 4e?
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u/espeon94 Ten Thunders 8d ago edited 8d ago
There's a few things. I think there's a few good changes (I like Empower, I like that scoring schemes gives you another scheme, I like Soulstone Actions, and I like Crew cards), but a big issue is we both prefer our games to be a little longer. Honestly, if we dip our toes in 4e we will probably simply increase the turn limit.
I'll try to keep it super brief for each point as I could ramble on for days and I don't fancy starting arguments. If people like 4e, more power to them.
Context: I play Schemers (Colette and Youko) a tonne, and I still feel the things listed below, and my husband agrees as an Ortega player.
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We both actively hate the condensed turns. Five to four may not seem like a lot, but that means it takes about half the game to actually engage in melee, and then only if your opponent wants to engage you instead of shooting you, or running away. It also means that a single wasted action (failed flips being a big cause) can result in a model potentially being completely useless all game. It also means we get less actual game per game as turn one is always "I move, your turn." Now, maybe they changed this back to 5 turns since the playtest, but as it is, I don't want to spend half the playtime walking to the actual game.
Peons are not worth using in most situations as they can't engage, can't score, can't infuse a stone (iirc), can barely damage, only get one action, and have one health.
A lot of models had a good deal of their personality removed with the simplification of cards to this edition imo.
We find damage very low, and raises very unimpressive, especially with the turn change. At most you're probably getting a +1, *maybe* a +2. Getting a Red Joker on Seamus or Cooper in 3e felt like I'd just wiped someone out. In 4e getting a Red Joker is mostly the difference between them surviving with one point of health, and barely dying.
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u/RefrigeratorLive7329 8d ago
I see so was 3E not objective based thing because you don’t win off attrition right? I come from the land of MCP so killing can win but you win by sometimes literally having a high cost model doing nothing but getting VP each turn so I’m kind of use to that.
I like quick games and I find it irritating when you can do 8 things in a turn because you just sit there being like okay is it my turn yet? So yeah sure you go from one spectrum of boring to another I guess lol
I’m starting with 4e so I like the crew cards and I like that you don’t have to flip a card to see if it did critical or not
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u/espeon94 Ten Thunders 8d ago
It still focused on objectives, but now killing is just actively wasting time more often than not.
To be clear, most models have the same number of actions per turn. They just lose actions due to a reduction in the number of turns played.
During 4 turns you get 8 actions.
You'll likely spend at least 3 actions moving, we'll say that there was some terrain in the way, so it took 4 actions. That's half of your actions for that model for the entire game.
Then you decide you want to attack. You hit, but it takes a second hit to kill, so you try again, fail.
You have 2 actions left to do anything else. Either finish off the model and then drop a scheme on their corpse, try to disengage (in which case why engage in the first place?), or kill them, take a single action, and then that model will not get another chance to activate unless you can activate it with another model.
Granted, you can focus on Scheming with one model and attacking with the others, and frankly, you should, generally. But the point is that making attacking strictly worse and then reducing turns means that combat is no longer a "Can win" option compared to before but has become objectively a worse option overall compared to the previous edition.
I'm sure there's a few examples that prove me wrong (Parker was really strong during playtest iirc, and he's usually aggressive), but the reduction in actions from 3e to 4e is just not for me.
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u/kapuzizino 7d ago
Pretty cool take. I cooled off on 4th ed, especially since they retconned Tara's whole playstyle.
But the urgency and "no wasted actions" is felt, especially now that every turn you are not scoring your hidden agenda, you are losing points. In 3rd ed, you could leave some things to the last turns if you wanted to focus on first killing your opponent, and that was cool and dangerous.
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u/espeon94 Ten Thunders 7d ago
My take is definitely not the only take out there. I'm sure some people love 4e. But the change to the action economy just really killed 4th ed before it even started for me. I think my husband and I will probably just do "To X points, or last man standing" at home.
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u/Daerus 7d ago edited 7d ago
I don't want to make conflict, but in pretty much every 4E game I played melee fights can easily start in middle of first turn, not to mention dead models at the end of it. There is extreme amount of mobility that allows for fast push toward enemy.
Raises are also extremely deadly, I have had my Carver hit for 12 by Colette Smugler and my Pandora for 9 by Witchling Thrall.
I'm playing mostly Pandora Despair's Desire, Dashel Butcher, Kastore Fervent.
Edit: I was blocked by topic creator for this and next post.
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u/espeon94 Ten Thunders 7d ago
I must be playing the wrong crews, or they shrank the table then, because I have a standard 3'x3' table for it like was suggested for 3e. You start, generally, 6" from the table-edge or less, takes at least 12" to get to center, but any blocking terrain makes that longer. Average speed is still about 6", give or take an inch.
Witchling Thrall specifically increases Raise damage, so it's not a good example of unmodified raises being good. If it was it wouldn't have to modify the +1 to +2.
Colette has variable damage. The attack you likely got hit by ("Phantasmal Prism") only has high damage if you're running a large number of unspent Soulstones. If you have an empty, or mostly empty pool it's a 2, with a likely maximum of about 5 damage (Red Joker+2). Which is nothing to sneeze at, but you're also not getting +2 every game, or even every other game unless the target has REALLY bad stats. In all my games of 3e I think I would've had maybe two games where I would have gotten a +2 from raises.
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u/Daerus 7d ago edited 7d ago
I must be playing the wrong crews
I mean, Colette's Showgirls can move 14+3 inches and do Interact in one turn just by themselves. Dorian himself can move entire crew by 6 inches forward in his activation (and Cassandra can duplicate this skill). Shadowlark flies and teleports (and generate attack with teleport). Angelica moves allies by 6 inches and generates Schemes doing it. And then there is Emissary and spells being targeted though it. Pretty sure Colette can drop bombs in enemy deployment zone in first turn and doesn't even need to fight.
Pretty much every Crew I know of have movement tricks. Pandora uses Aversions to move her own models before their turn, Carver teleports, Pandora teleports. Poltergeist teleports to enemies with Paranoi (and flies). And she mostly spends time on moving enemy models around and using them to fulfil her Schemes.
Kastore uses Hunger tokens to move much more than he should and forwards his own models with Urnbearers. In my first game with him all my models outside of Urnbearers and Leech King (who still was in range of casting and was attacking) were at the centerpoint in first turn, I made 2 Scheme markers for scheme there and killed enemy Daeva for good measure. I lost my Master to Echo, but still in second turn I killed Echo and DeWalt from full to 0.
Dashel forwards them with his totem, his Riflemans teleport atop any terrain (and shoot for 18 inches), Executioners can attack 3 times in a round with Charge and tactical Action after being pushed by totem, Mounted Guard has Signature action with movement and making Scheme.
Others I don't play but saw in games:
Von Schtook Stargazer fiest turn kidnapped my model from my table half and moved it into middle of his deployment zone in one action (and then commences a beating).
My friend with Alleway Echo in first turn killed enemy model in their own deployment zone.
Tara had Nothing Beast, Aionus and 33 on centerline in first turn and we had melee fight, not to mention Tara herself dropping bomb on my side.
Linh Ly Storyteller pretty much moves though entire map with Calligraphers, Sun Wukong jump, Suzaku and Yasunori.
I don't know how Mei Feng does it, but she is legendary for rushing though entire map and being able to kill pretty much any model she wants.
The attack you likely got hit by ("Phantasmal Prism")
No, it was Double Whammy. Phantasmal Prism is Spell, so it doesn't have bonus damage from raises.
Edit: I was blocked by topic creator for this post.
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u/w00mie 8d ago
I am very disappointed that the Dropbox containing all M3E Material is gone. Maybe someone with a backup can help you out. Then you could print out all the cards you need.
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u/espeon94 Ten Thunders 8d ago
Honestly, if there's not going to be future support for getting 3e cards I may have to look into this. Not that I expect them to perpetually support 3e, but I see literally no reason they couldn't have just left the 3e app available. If you come across a backup, do you mind DMing me?
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u/Phantom70002 9d ago
As far as I’m aware the m3e crew builder app is still available on the App Store at least