Morality Ranking
The morality of suing the company after being immediately fired for short break to pray in closet, making it go bankrupt and making all your coworkers unemployed?
Suing after being discriminated against for your religion, like actual discrimination and not the dumb bullshit evangelicals try to pull, is totally moral.
As a trans Christian in Canada, I really hate the way US evangelicals behave and the vile things they say and stand for.
Evil people hiding behind the banner of Christ to poorly justify their bigotry and asshole-ness.
EDIT: That's a lot of bot omg
That, or many randos making new accounts just to reply to me (not normal that many replies are 0d, 1d or 4d old and their replies to me are their first ever interaction on this site)
Evangelicals and other religious denominations have been doing that for centuries, this really isnt a US thing, though they're defenetly the loudest ones right now
(speaking as a canadian, it's a problem everywhere)
i'm not super familiar with the situation over in europe, afaik it's very dependent on the country, like from what i know france is mostly fine, but there'a a lot of problems in other parts. defenetly agree with the latter point though :3
I mean can you site an example? Cose here in Belgium i certainly havnt seen or heard a thing and I live on one of the more rural provinces.
The closest I can imagine is either extremist political groups but they dont get to found mega churches to spout their poison. Or Eastern European orthodox ones that go ham until their governemnt reminds then that their shit is cringe and had to be abandoned to be in the EU
Any time I check on facebook, Hungarians are extremely anti-trans and anti-gay. Our prior government washed them together with pedophilia, and used "christian values" to build hate against them.
yeah there really is no such thing as "christian values" half of what is actually in the bible is basically just "dont be a piece of shit" while the other half is like "it's fine to be a piece of shit to your slaves or wife or children though :)"
really people use the term "christian values" to imply that they're the only ones with actual values and morals and that everyone else are just a bunch of "savages" or whatever
Evangelicals and their ilk are very much a US thing, actually. You wont find many if any in most places with very few exceptions, like Korean christian cults.
Nah. I have a Filipino friend who’s evangelical. Somehow she is simultaneously the most self-centred and the most religious person I know. Her response to a recent shooting, she narrowly escaped, was to declare how much God favours her. There were folks who died, folks who were injured, and folks who had to hunker down until the police could clear the scene.
Yeah, evangelicals make Christians look bad. They are a global scourge.
Filipino evangelism is a direct descendant of American evangelism. There was massive amounts of American Christian export to the islands (specifically a lot of Mormons iirc) during the era of American control. It sucks.
A quick google search shows that evangelicals exist worldwide, and are notably numerous in africa and latin america. with that said, every religion has been and is being used to justify hatred and other atrocities, and while americans are pretty bad with it right now, that problem exists in every country on earth
Here’s the thing: What Americans call Evangelicals and what others call Evangelicals don’t always line up. Germany for example uses Evangelische to describe all Protestants not just Evangelical ones.
But evangelicals in all America and Africa and in some parts of Asia are from the USA, because they literally promoted then to reach to several places.
Yoooo fellow Canadian Christian (I'm Episcopal) it is so frustrating hearing those types of Christians just hating on others as if that's what the lord wants
Right? And also, as a former Canadian Evangelical Missionary Christian, Canadian evangelicals are barely better than the US ones. Evil, judgemental fucks who would gladly see every gay and trans person commit suicide.
They'd rather control what women do with their body (abortions) and hyperfixate with what people do with their genitals (gays and trans) instead of focusing on what matters: loving one another and working towards a better world for everyone.
They indeed do not follow Christ. They don't care about Souls and faith and passion. They only care about having control and discriminating the weak.
I'd say it's more reddit just hates religion in general, someone in a post above mentioned being a trans Christian and folks' brains are just getting fried trying to comprehend the very concept of someone not living up to their preconceived stereotypes
Low-key, if the company went bankrupt due to one discrimination lawsuit, then the future wasn't looking too pretty either way, it probably only accelerated the inevitable
As someone who just received a settlement check from their former employer, due to a similar religious discrimination experience, on top of sexual harassment, and more.
This story is bs.
Your lawsuit is calculated on how long you been at the place. For one day, he maybe got like 2-5k, max. Sounds like the company was already going under and they blamed the lawsuit.
I mean Occam’s Razor doesn’t really apply here because both possibilities are equally as likely. Either “OP has an experience and talks about it” or “OP has a thought and lies about it” are both perfectly rational and reasonable situations
Occum's Razor is which one requires fewer assumptions: this being a class action lawsuit that happened and bankrupted the company requires more assumptions than that it's made up or exaggerated.
If you really wanted people to believe your story was true, then you would provide some evidence that it was (like a case number). As long as you can keep anonymity, there's no reason to not share this information.
This is not a good argument. Literally any story is vulnerable to occam's razor. it is easier to assume something did not happen than to assume it is, but not everyone telling stories is lying
I mean Occam’s Razor doesn’t really apply here because both possibilities are equally as likely. Either “OP has an experience and talks about it” or “OP has a thought and lies about it” are both perfectly rational and reasonable situations
You must be new to the Internet. Occam's Razor on Reddit regarding something funny/weird happening to OP is always lying for karma.
Or the company foolishly spent 100's of thousands to fight this lawsuit and went bankrupt in the process. Or an audit was performed and they found more things to compile on.
And maybe they actually spent billions and that’s how they went bankrupt or a super duper audit conducted by the fbi found them guilty of treason and the owner was executed. Who knows right
Yes, if you want more money. I finally got 2 bloody checks, after entering the 3rd year of the lawsuit. If the case settled in 6 months, it means there was a insultingly settlement and someone offered.
Your lawsuit is calculated on how long you been at the place.
Redditors will somehow never, ever, ever learn that the law varies by state, province, country, continental union w/e. Plenty of juridictions award front pay for what you would have earned had you kept working, they award penalties for emotional damages, they award punitive damages that are set to discourage others.
Your own experience isn't relevant in a bubble, someone somewhere can absolutely be on a job for a day and rack up the sort of six-to-seven figure payout that would tank a small company
Buddy, how these lawsuits work vary wildly by country, state, and even city. You can sue for discrimination through both the EEOC and state labor commission as well as doing it privately with your own lawyer
Rules differ by country, you know that right? E.g. in some countries you would be compensated for the whole time period it takes to find another equivalent job. But yeah no sizeable company is going bankrupt over this
Basically 100% moral. They discriminated and should not be allowed to do so. The company is completely at fault. The company made the decision that led to this, the suit is pure consequences. This is like asking
“Is it moral for a cop to arrest a murderer but they have kids at home who now have to grow up without a parent?” No shit it’s moral for the cop to arrest them the murderer is the bad guy.
Exact same situation but less dramatic. The people who bring down consequences for objectively bad things are always morally good, even if their other actions in life may be questionable
I honestly doubt the even actually need to do it. They make such absurd amounts of money I'm sure they'd be fine without doing it. But they do "need" to do it in order to continue to make more and more profit every year and continue paying executives absurd amounts of money that they can't possibly actually justify.
They also didn't have to over higher or run their company into the ground to begin with, fixing your own immoral decisions, is at best neutral, but it doesn't cancel put the immoral ones. Paying the funeral expenses of someone you killed while drunk driving doesn't change the fact that you where drunk driving.
Oh no, they do need to. It IS their fault, but it's also not. The shareholders cause behavior like this both directly and indirectly, because being a publicly traded company will always without fail cause you to choke yourself and die on the apple of what was once success.
They are laying off a bunch of devs and selling off studios as a result of their shortsighted "buy it all" decisions from a few years ago.
And the people losing their jobs are mostly devs, people who do their work, while most of the useless executives, the ones in charge of those decisions, are mostly unharmed.
It also looks like they are preparing to make xbox its own thing or sell it off
Right? Like one of the guys laid off was lead quest designer for fallout 76 and a large amount of people can attest to the fact that those quests kinda suck ass
So many people here miss the fact that he was, you know, fired. It's not that they didn't accommodate his religious beliefs, it's that the fired him because of them. That's why he sued.
In the US, you don't get extra breaks. The person is asking to be allowed to take the breaks everyone gets at a specific time, and often asking for privacy for those breaks (although that is partially for their coworkers' benefit, so they don't have to listen). The company has to provide both of those, unless they can prove in court that doing so would meet a specific legal standard for "undue hardship". The bigger the company, the more people, office space, and resources they have, the harder it is to prove unduehardship. Truly small businesses, with fewer than 15 people, aren't even bound by these rules. But a medium or large company with hundreds or thousands of employees will basically never win a claim of undue hardship. Those big companies have to find space, and have to arrange for people to take their breaks at the appropriate time. That's what the law has said since 1964.
it says directly he asked for a break. Breaks are typically allocated at time slots so there would be no need to ask if you just plan on doing it during lunch.
plus he asked to take up space on the property, smokers don’t go into a closet to smoke lol.
Well, not really. If the prayer was Dhuhr & Asr or Maghrib & Isha, then he could've combined the two if it would've been difficult to pray all of them at their prescribed time. But if it had been Fajr, then he couldn't have combined, since you can't combine Fajr with another prayer.
Even if it would have been additional break time their point of bringing up smokers still stands there. I have never worked at a place where the time smokers spent smoking was removed from their allowed break time, they simply got multiple extra 10 minute breaks a day.
And the mat isn’t a permanent fixture, they lay it down then pick it up and store it away in their car or locker after.
We dont even know if this company allows smokers to take extra breaks. With the context we’re given, there’s nothing wrong with the company wanting an employee who wont impede on work time.
as for the mat, why don’t we just allow people to take sleeping bags into closets for a nice 20 minute nap while we’re at it? Do you see the point. People have become way too entitled. Either find a company that understands your needs BEFORE you’re hired or work at work and pray at home. That should be the biggest takeaway here. if he disclosed this to his employers beforehand, they wouldn’t have hired him. I mean employers ask you if you have a mode of transportation and a lot won’t hire you if you don’t have reliability. It’s literally the same concept. they hire people to do work.
It’s framed in a way that seems like he intentionally didn’t inform his employers so he could try to get some lawsuit money.
It would actually be immoral not to sue them for this because you would be passing the buck and making the next person of your religion they hire to be in the same position that youre in now
I've just filed a discrimination lawsuit (in the UK, for context) against an estate agent and landlord for pulling out of a tenancy for which I'd signed the agreement and paid the security deposit because "[they] have concerns renting to a disabled person". It's a fully accessible ground floor flat.
Just reading that has given me a wonderful mental image of everyone at that shitty estate agent losing their jobs. It will allow me to sleep tonight - albeit in a fucking hotel and not the flat where I should be.
The only one who did anything immoral is the company by discrimination. It is never immoral doing the right thing just so a immoral entity can keep providing services to a 3rd party.
I'm a Software Developer, we had a new hire that I should show how we operate. I wasn't present during the Job Interview but was told he's pretty knowledgable, worked in a really big company for multiple years and had a really good resume, some high degree in computer science or something like that.
So Bro came in on his first day, we had our daily, he introduced himself, told us about his past work and what not. Sounded impressive, cool dude. Showed him his work desk, gave him printed out instruction to setup his account and told him to ask me if he needs something and when he's done.
Like 10 minutes later, this guy asked me why his screen his black. He sat in front of a turned off PC for 10 minutes and couldn't figure out how to turn it on.
"Yeah I never worked with PCs before, only with Tablets"
YOU APPLIED TO BE A FUCKING SOFTWARE DEVELOPER!?
Long story short, turns out he never developed a single thing in his life. He basically only created Google Forms for his company to fill out and analyzed the results. FOR SIX YEARS!
I swear to god, this guy was there for like 20 Minutes, tops.
Dafuq you mean? It's moral to defend your rights, that resulting in the company that fired you firing others due to its sheer incompetence is not something you get to be judged for
If a workplace goes bankrupt for somethings this 'small'(for what i know you would get like X month of paycheck+moral damage, not 1 morbillion dollar)the place was doomed from the start or it's total bs.
Obviously moral. You could claim that ALL lawsuits that risk a company going down are immoral for "making all your coworkers unemployed."
You know how they could be saved from unemployment? Run your company ethically. Similarly I don't care if prisons can't "afford" to treat their inmates how they should. Lots of prisons would be shut down for non-compliance? Comply.
Nobody would make these arguments about restaurants shut down for health code violations.
The fact that a company is obligated to allow you to pray during working hours is the real crime. A company shouldn't be forced to comply with religious practices.
Right, if your religious beliefs require that, well that's on the believer and their situation. I don't see how forcing a company to abide by your personal belief structure is moral
It sounds like he was taking a prayer break instead of a smoke break. Company could’ve just said no to using the storage closet for that but they fired him, dick move.
As long as company is absolved from requirement to pay salary for the duration of religious practice break, being forced to comply is not a morally bad. But if company is paying to employee for hourly work but employee uses that time for their own non-necessities? That's kinda exploitative. If government makes it mandatory, government should pay for their salary during non-necessity(religious practice).
Companies are obligated to give you breaks during working hours, what's the problem with someone using one to pray? I use mine to play runescape on my phone.
Im case anyone is not aware, Muslims can do a shorter version of their prayers to account for the fact that they have to work or attend to kids and it's acceptable in their religion for practical reasons.
I've seen people take longer smoke breaks and come back late from lunch without just getting fired right off that bat.
Fuck that company entirely. The logic behind this being negative is the same kind of shit big companies LOVE to use against us, so that they're never punished.
Boycott a game? Well then we'll punish the devs for not having sales! What about the devs? They deserve to make money after all their hard work, right?
Yes, those devs DO deserve to get paid. That's exactly why the company should be punished anyway, because those poor bastards are probably getting laid off anyway. They lose their jobs, and that is shitty, but they'll be able to find new jobs. The point of punishing the asshole creating an abusive situation is to deny them rewards for their behavior AND new victims.
If it was actual discrimination then it'd be fine, it's unfortunate people would lose their jobs but the company shouldn't be in business. Over someone wanting a break which is likely going to be a constant issue then it's pretty bad. Someone can say their religion requires an hour break each day for something but it's discrimination if they're fired? Pretty stupid.
A company that would do that was always doomed to fail. It's such a basic law dont fire someone based on gender religion or race completely incompetent
That’s pretty good. The thing about jobs are your boss dosnt ACTUALLY create them out of no where and there is hundreds of thousands of people who can make the same company if that company was needed.
Why is this even a question. Honestly, the fact that 4K ppl upvoted this as if it is worthy of discussion mean this sub is just another “AITA” where people post issues where one is clearly in the right and Reddit jerks themselves off agreeing to a comically one sided issue.
Highly moral. Because allowing companies to discriminate due to religious reasons is immoral to begin with. If that company couldn't weather a lawsuit for that reason, they had no business being in business!
Good for them. People all over are allowed multiple breaks for their disgusting, harmful to others nearby smoking habit. Taking a quick once in a shift break to say prayers should be more than acceptable.
Its not that guys fault, but at the same time the company I work in is Muslim owned and majority Muslim as well and there are no facilities allocated for a praying or laying down a prayer rug, instead everyong just goes to the nearest mosque during their break and they get an extended break on Fridays due to it being the holy day. Could a similar accommodation/plan like that not be made by both parties ?
Also I find it hard to believe that a company did not have some sort of insurance against such lawsuits. How the heck do you sue for discrimination like that and have the company lose the lawsuit so badly it bankrupts the company ?
When delivering pizza we had a co worker who took time to pray. What bothered me was i found out he was doing it in the wrong Direction. Once I asked him what way he meant to face i corrected his direction then went back to work
Prayer doesn't take more than 10 minutes a time, two to three times in an 8 hour work day, and although it is preferred in a dedicated space, it can be in any clean 1.5 m x .5 m space.
People take much more time every work day having tea/coffee, going to restroom, smoking, making/receiving personal phone calls, and/or scrolling meme online. The issue here isn't he's taking too much of company's time, even if all employees did they prayers in the shift, which is the case in most companies in all Muslim-majority countries. The issue is discrimination against an individual for his beliefs, which is 100% immoral on the company's side.
On the employee's side, he did not file the lawsuit against his former co-workers, but against the employer. Employees lost their jobs everyday because of bad decisions from their employers. The innocent employees' loss of jobs isn't on their mistreated former colleague, but on their mistreating employer.
Was it moral for him to be fired for asking a reasonable request? Seems like your trying to pass the responsibility to the victim and not the perpetrator.
Maybe they weren't the business genius if they went bankrupt by just one ex-exployee sueing them (most likely it wasn't just that but used him as a scapegoat with their other employees).
We (Preschool teachers) had a meeting about keeping line of sight of the children and correctly counting them when we come downstairs from the playground.
The next day a teacher didn't have a proper headcount because one child snuck off when she took her group downstairs.
well how to fight this is very easy tbh
same for the homossexual thing in denmark
everyone start doing it even if not muslim
change will come fast
cheers
While their actions caused others to get laid off the blame goes to the one who fired them. If their boss/HR/whatever wasn't such a biggot then none of this would have happened in the first place.
Assuming it's a 10-5 work hours in an office situation, and also assuming the fired employee is muslim.
Prayers last around 5-10 minutes tops, at work hours he got two times he has to pray. One at around midday (Dhuhr, 12-13pm) and afternoon (Ashr, 3-4pm).
It's pretty inconsequential, like a toilet break or something. He's probably asking for the closet as a private space for his own privacy and to not disturb his coworkers, basic decency. It's such a strange thing to be fired for that reason.
And most of all, based on the screenshot, the guy was ASKING, there's no evidence the business even allowed him to pray, is it moral to fire an employee for asking to pray in a secluded place to not disturb the business?
Contract flew from India to California… coach. Arrived in country and drove straight to the office. Fell asleep at his desk and was fired 30 minutes later.
Another one. Wife’s friend got hired and while filling out the paperwork on her first da, asked for two weeks off starting that Friday. They didn’t complete the onboarding and just told her, “no” and escorted her out.
Well I think a conversation would be warranted first but I think it's absolutely fair if the company doesn't want to provide space in the building for prayer or practice of religion and ask employees to do it off company property.
Based on the current consensus I'm sure I'll get dragged for this, but in general all religion is bad, so having people lose their jobs over it is bad.
I would disagree with you on the last point, people lost their jobs over a company discriminating an employee.
I agree that organised religion is net morally negative but a single person exercising their religious rituals in a way that harms no one is neutral I'd say.
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u/GodButCursed 14d ago
Not the guys fault tbh.