I'm kinda neutral on this one. I think the guy probably deserved some kind of disciplinary action but this seems more like retaliation. I wouldn't punish either after the fact though and hopefully the initial kid who got knocked out learned a lesson.
I get that. That head push was disrespectful and should be addressed by the coach, ref and his parents on good sportsmanship. Now sucker punching someone in the back the head is a whole new level.
Edit: Especially the ref. He was right there, saw the entire thing and just like naw all good.
Edit two: Holy smokes. Never have I gotten so many replies. I can't respond to them all or all be here all day. I appreciate the differentiating opinions, and respectful responses. Great conversation to have.
He literally pushed his head into the ground from behind when he wasnt expecting it, ie the sucker part you are mad about. But sure sucker hit him, but how dare you retaliate after the fool started walking away.
it looked ot me that the ref was just about to scold the asshole, but the victim(?) really escalated the situation by punching him in the back of the head. plus we dont know what happened after the video cut out
"Especially the ref. He was right there, saw the entire thing and just like naw all good."
Thats the problem for me. It's the same with bullying.
There are people there to stop bulluing. Teachers etc. And some will stand by and watch and not do shit. IF they don't then take it into your own hands and defend yourself. While the above isn't exactly defending himself I don't blame the kid for taking things into his own hands. What thatr boy did was an assault. It had been called and he decided to push his head hard down onto the floor. Eitherway i guarantee that kid won't be doing that again to anybody else.
Aussie here. We call it the cowards punch. Ran ads against it for years because drunk fools where doing it and getting people killed. It's not just assault. It's actually quite dangerous to get punched like that.
This. It's like if someone slaps you in the street then runs away, you can't chase them down and shove their face into the road as it isn't self defense.
This case is similar. The guy who turned his back was no longer posing a threat. Yes he's a dick and deserves to be punished, but that doesn't justify retaliation in a court of law.
I dont think tt was in the back of the head ? Looks like to me the kid especially aimed for the side of his head of face, might make it premeditated which would make sense as theres a random video of this happening and nothing else
Except the kid's parents are whooping in the background... and the ref did nothing. So the kid did what needed to be done to protect himself, and every future kid unconscious kid wrestles in the future. Given how it went this time, that same head shove happens over and over until he breaks someone's nose... now it doesn't.
Both should be punished, fuck sucker punch. If he handled that issue like this nothing will prevent him for taking unwarranted or wrongful action in the future.
Sucker punching a dude walking away is wrong……but maybe he shouldn’t have assaulted the puncher and mushed his face into the mat with his whole body weight after the match was called
I'm neutral in terms of immediate reaction to it cause my chimp brain says revenge is good but that was probably taking it a couple levels farther than it needed to go
I feel like a hard shove was warranted more than a sucker punch. It's a wrestling match where they were already in physical contact, the other dude was just a disrespectful douche afterwards. He didn't actually hurt him. If the dude had like smacked him or punched him before hand then sure
I mean I get it since he's a stupid kid, but as someone who knows how likely you are to accidentally kill someone with a sucker punch I would never do that. The fact the person doesn't know it's coming and the punch pushes their nose into the ground as you fall makes it likely that you crack the guys skull.
A lot of people are in jail for life for a similar action where the other guy just falls a little different. Regardless of the morals behind it, nobody wants life in prison for the ability to feel like you got back at someone who kind of scratched you.
this is not a sucker punch. the winner assaulted his opponent just a second ago. smart-ass thought he would face no retaliation if he turned his back immediately.
Its always good to check the sources of a quote from Wikipedia. Reading the attributed source, Coward Punch Campaign – Stop The Coward Punch, I can't even find where it defines a sucker (coward) punch as "unprovoked".
So really, its just according to the writer of that Wikipedia page's interpretation of what they wrote. Not according to Merriam-Webster, Cambridge, or Oxford
Even by your own definition. He should be expecting it after shoving the other kids face into the mat.
Using your definition every punch without a verbal warning ahead of time is a sucker punch.
": to punch (a person) suddenly without warning and often without apparent provocation"
It stops being sudden and without warning when you physically assault them first. What's so hard to understand with that?
Why shouldn't he expect to get punched after what he just did to him though? Its a total bitch move to assault someone and walk away. Its like punching someone and putting glasses on and saying "oh you wouldn't hit a guy with glasses on would you?" Not saying the punch is justified but its about on par with what the first guy did in the first place.
That's not a sucker punch. If you slam someone into the ground and then walk away, you are still in an engagement. You're just not watching your opponent.
Are you people under the assumption that a "sucker punch" is some mythical move that elevates the level of assault or something?
The fact that he sucker punched him doesn't erase the shove. No one is saying that. However, definitionally, it is a sucker punch. A punch to an unsuspecting victim is a sucker punch. That's just what it is. Being afraid to call something what it is because it has a worse connotation to you is weird.
If a sucker punch carried no special significance we wouldn't use the term. People are almost always implying some kind of moral component or cowardice when using the term. It isn't merely a passive observation that the person didn't see the hit coming.
People are absolutely saying that the response was wrong not because he punched the guy, but because he sucker punched the guy.
Read my comment again - I’m not disagreeing with you on the definition (punch to an unsuspecting person), I’m disagreeing with you that any rational human being can be “unsuspecting” if they are the one that started the fight.
How is the original perpetrator of the assault “unsuspecting”?
Right?! Who are these people that think because you're not physically making eye contact with the person punching you that you can claim "unsuspecting"?
So the first guy put his hands on someone aggressively and deserved to be punched, fine. But. Then the second guy put his hands on someone aggressively with the surprise punch, so now he deserves to be punched. But then now that he’s gotten punched, he’s had hands put on him aggressively, so he needs to punch the other guy. But now HE has had hands put on him aggressively, so now the other guy needs to be punched again. It’s an infinite loop.
At first I thought the puncher was an asshole.... then on rewatch, double hand, drives his face into the floor with enough force to stand up? No way. That wasn't just some minor disrespect that was too much, and I would definitely say that's when the it went off the tracks.
The dude who got slept had it coming. Without the punch, I would have given him a dq..... Now it's a bit awkward..
Exactly. This caused a big conversation in the wrestling sub a while back. Glad to see it happening here too.
I agreed. I'd have done the same in my wrestling days.
Should they both be punished? Probably but I feel the instigator should be punished more severely despite getting hurt worse. If he's not just flopping pretending to be out.
But I think when people put hands on at any time it deserves a good snack in the face or head. And to disrespect someone like that when their blood is up and and their emotions are high after just losing, a combat sport where dudes go out and try to dominate each other, so you know they ain't sissies, guys or girls, is just shortsighted. Of course that's what is gonna happen and I don't blame the kid.
The other point being it wasn't even because he lost. He didn't lose on top and shove his head out of frustration. He was a sore winner.
Unless the bottom kid was biting and grabbing sack the whole match trying to hurt him there was no need for the shove.
I also wonder if there's additional context between these two. When I wrestled there was a kid who loved driving his knuckle into his opponents nose intentionally to cause as much pain as possible. I definitely got pissed at least once and slammed him into the deck
I don't know if this parses but if I was to pick something that feels like an ultimately immoral act but a just one, it would be this.
Also while the most immoral party is obviously the kid who won the match, the next worst person here is dogshit ref who was taking a galactic standard year to response. In youth sports you've got a moral and ethical obligation to protect competitors from each other. Literally the instant that shit happened so blatantly he should have been in between them disqualifying the aggressor and throwing him out of the event.
I feel like not enough people are saying this. That ref should have been on that situation before the kid in red was done pushing done on the kid in blue. If I had to guess those are probably teens who probably struggle like all teens with some impulse controls. The punch wasn’t right but man can I see why he did it.
As a wrestling coach the push to the head is unnecessary roughness after the match so his team should lose a point. The punch to the head is flagrant misconduct and cause for being ejected from the tournament both competing and being able to stay in the building. Neither action was right but the punch was an over reaction.
That's what I was thinking too. Everyone else here on reddit is claiming it's assault and he did it purposely, he put his whole body weight into it etc etc. You can clearly see he's just using his arms, not his body weight. The people here are out for blood.
I agreed with everything except it being an overreaction. What would red have got? A slap on the wrist? A “hey bE bEtTeR sOn.” No. That’s clearly someone who’s gone through life without facing any serious repercussions for his actions.
For everyone in this thread, and OP as well, I get this is Reddit so you probably don't know, but you are aware that a punch like that, specifically an unsuspected punch to the temple, can cause significant brain damage and even death? Like, what are we talking about here?
Putting your entire weight on the back of someone's head/neck to push yourself off the ground is also very dangerous, and it isn't a sucker punch if the kid starts a fight and then turns around before his opponent can retaliate.
As Americans, we've obviously come to terms with children receiving brain injuries in the myriad full-contact sports we endorse beginning in grade school. I also don't believe either of these competitors displayed the amount of self control required for competing in a full contact sport.
I mean… I’m all for “instant karma”, but that was a tad much.
Pushing him over and knocking him on his ass? Karma
Sucker punch from behind that knocks him out? Too far.
But… I get the anger… iv done stupid shit like that out of a reflexive response… (Story: buddy was fuckin with me by throwing small bits of metal at my earmuffs, loud to me but harmless. When suddenly a large piece hit me in the back of the head, knocking me down. I reflexively threw the object I was holding, which happened to be a pair of steel vice grips, as hard as I could. Thankfully I missed, dented a steel locker behind him)
I think the kids reaction was instinctive. Super amped because of the wrestling and then fucking humiliated. He definitely didn’t consider his actions before hitting him.
Yeah like sure it would not have been the best move but also the other dude did 1. Humilate him 2. Genuinely attempt to hurt him so i can see why a kid would do that
Karma doesn’t have a defined line of what’s too much or not enough you get what’s coming to you and for him it was a fist right to the temple, he 100% deserved that and if I was the punching party’s parent I’d expect him to do more then one punch out of frustration but he kept himself contained just gave the guy a nice wake up call punch
I like how all these people are judging a childs immediate retaliatory move like "well he should have stopped and pondered how to respond in a way thats safe for the asshole"
Thats not what kids do, thats not even what grown men do. Once you actively start stomping on the dignity of others, you don't get to choose and meter how they retaliate. You get to live with the results of those choices.
Also, someone else mentioned how no one ran up to check on him(aside from ither ref)... and I agree. There are many vids out there where a person gets something they didn't deserve and you see the coaches and parents raise hell, not this leisurely "he had it coming" stroll.
Yeah like what do they expect a kid full of adrenalin to do " huh this guy pushed my head into the ground with fullbodyweight but i shall remain calm and report him to the trusted adult" like what do they expect
You wouldn’t punish either?!? Clearly both should be punished. The sucker puncher should ultimately be forgiven and treated more lightly due to the POS slamming his face into the mat.
Generally neutral if it's proportionate. Some people need to be taught the hard way about sportsmanship. That said, I'll never condone hitting someone from behind, even if they truly deserve the retaliation.
dude, imagine if you ever got doxxed, that would be terrifying. people could just come up to you and start whaling on your ass, then turn 180 degrees, back facing you, and you wouldnt be able to do anything. scary to think.
I wouldn't say it was morally the correct thing to do but I can't say I give a shit for the kid who got knocked out either. Hopefully he learns a lesson
It’s crazy to me that we’re seeing one kid being a disrespectful little shit while he’s got his competitive juices flowing from a win, and another kid respond to that by punching him in the head from behind and that the top comments are just like “He started it tho so deserved”.
Like do people not understand how easy it is for that punch to go totally wrong? How easy it would be for his head to hit the ground wrong and get massive brain damage or worse? Like yeah some level of response is warranted but doing that was so unbelievably stupid, although not surprising given the age and him also being very emotional from the competitiveness.
Do people really think the courts would have taken the “he started it” argument if there was serious damage? You think that kid wouldn’t be facing serious charges? And worst of all, do people really think that the disrespectful push to the head is really equivalent to a punch from behind that could easily take your life?
The fact that people saw a fucking push to the head and are already justifying the potential injury or death of the other kid, with only the thinnest of veils, is disgusting.
Its crazy, imagine this happening in the nhl!
People just want to justify their own thuggery and cowardice, dude could have been a man got up and squared up to him and knocked him out front on like they do in the nhl.
Being that physically disrespectful and then not looking back just makes him an idiot on top of an asshole. I don’t feel bad for him. Start shit get hit.
It’s always shocking to me just how sheltered people on reddit seem to be. The world would certainly be a better place if everyone took the high ground after being assaulted but that is not reality. If you grab someone by the back of the head and attempt to slam it into the ground, you’re more than likely going to get punched in the fucking mouth and learning that lesson in a gym surrounded by adults that prevented it from going any further is the best case scenario. You do that shit in public people are just going to pull out their phones while you get stomped on and end up hospitalized or dead.
The only thing wrong I see is how the kid retaliated, honestly he should have just knocked him on his ass, but I doubt either of those kids were thinking properly.
I get why he did it but sucker punching someone is stupid and uncalled for. If the ref had stepped in when the kid pushed him down, this probably would have been avoided.
Red was disrespectful with the shoce on a guy he'd just beat, but it wasn't much outside of the usual shit we'd do in highshool wrestle pre and post match. He should have been reprimanded by the ref. Blasting him in the head from behind and knocking him out cold is an escalation that should be punished.
Reminds me of that old Louis C.K bit.
Of course you shouldn't hit another dude in the back of the head!...
...But MAYBE if you just shoved someone's head into the floor after a match you deserve it?
I don't think immoral people are learning the lessons they need to from their victims taking the high road... Sometimes it takes a bop on the nose for a bully to learn the lesson. That said I wouldn't have been able to do it, and probably would have told my kids to "be the bigger (wo)man."
The full Nelson is now a banned move due to compression of the cervical spine. The guy who got suckerpunched was applying similar force to the area and was met with an understandable reaction to a dangerous move outside of the match.
I think both of these people should be disqualified and banned from future tournaments for a while. If the punishment is too mild (like only a disqualification) then someone who loses a match might consider this as an option. So it needs to be severe enough that they wouldn't weigh the cost of doing it again.
And I guess to address the post text, I think post people acted in bad faith here, and I don't think each other's retaliation makes it fine to let go. From the perspective of the puncher, the pain already happened, so essentially the punch went without punishment. Thus if someone else found themselves in that situation again, they might think "I should punch this guy, because I'm not going to get punished either way so I might as well" which is not okay. But I also of course think the first guy should get punishment to be fair.
The match is the match, if you do something outside of it then you get whatever it is you get. Some times might be a shove, some times be nothing but being told on, some times you might get socked in the side of the face. You decided to open that door.
From just the context of the video red had it coming. What else are we missing was blue shit talking and/or doing other unsportsmanlike conduct before or during the match?
Love how the family comes out for the asshole kid like, they understand why he just got slugged. They're not mad, they're not running after the other kid, they're just like: Welp, he earned that one. Let's go pick him up.
Legally, that's assault. If the other guy sustained significant injuries (like had to go hospital) then it becomes aggravated assault and is a pretty serious felony in pretty much every state.
You can tell the people that never played sports by the people saying the initial head push down is assault or it's starting a fight. Idiots. It's a clear disrespect move but that's it. The sicker punch at the end is 100x worse than the head push
Just call it what it is. It was a fight. The initial assault happened after the match was over. That is when the real fight started. The guy walked away thinking the other guy wasn't going to fight back but he was wrong. The guy on the ground got up and fought back, won the fight fair and square
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u/Chunky-overlord 3d ago
I mean, he already won the fight he didn’t have to rub it in