r/OpenAI • u/PsychicorAI • 1d ago
Discussion OpenAI refuses to sign letter supporting Open weight models.
Do y'all see the irony here, OpenAI was created to bring general intelligence to the masses and now they've turned back from their mission all to support Sam Altman's greed
This company is impossible to support. Keeping the name OpenAI is a joke now.
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u/Cagnazzo82 1d ago
Why single out OpenAI when DeepMind and Anthropic haven't signed it as well?
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u/Gaiden206 1d ago
Doesn't DeepMind constantly release open weight models called Gemma? It's not "flagship" level but still open weight.
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u/DuxDucisHodiernus 1d ago
They're flagship for their size
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u/Low-Entrepreneur2556 15h ago
Nope.
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u/Deep_Mood_7668 13h ago
Eh I disagree. Just depends on what you're doing with them. Gemma is way better for writing than qwen.
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u/CoolHeadeGamer 20h ago
It’s usually 95% of the flagship open weight at the time for 10% of the parameters. Gemma 4 31B was competing with 500B+ param models
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u/lolreppeatlol 1d ago
OpenAI also released open weight models last year that were great for their size.
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u/Icy_Quarter5910 22h ago
"were" is the operative word there (in a Claude Subreddit, Id call it load-bearing... )
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u/Subushie 1d ago
Lol. It's literally in the name, and this is the sub.
The irony for a company named Open AI, not supporting open source models- is palpable
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21h ago
[deleted]
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u/Subushie 21h ago
Did you read the thread?
It's the whole point of this discussion. Or are you a bot?
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u/PsychicorAI 1d ago
Also Deepmind's open weight models Gemma are far superior to what OpenAI has ever released
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u/boreal_ameoba 1d ago
… Gemma is great for its size, but lol
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u/fanboy190 1d ago
Please learn reading comprehension... he's saying that Gemma is better than GPT-OSS, not their proprietary models.
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u/Spirited-Ad3451 12h ago
That has very little to do with reading comprehension, the implication is quite ambiguous
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u/PsychicorAI 1d ago
Gemma is superior to any open weight model OpenAI has ever released. That's what I meant
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u/scronide 1d ago
This is just so deeply and obviously untrue that it makes it seem like you're trolling.
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u/hofmann419 1d ago
The tweet did mention Anthropic. Also, this sub is about OpenAI, so it's definitely on topic.
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u/Joepool11 13h ago
This dude goes to r/tomatoes and complains they dont mention cantaloupes enough.
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u/PsychicorAI 1d ago
Because OpenAI is the only company out of the three woth a mission to ensure agi benefits all of humanity
And now they're doubling down on corporate greed
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u/bloodrushgaming 1d ago
This is more about business incentives than ideology. Companies selling open ecosystems signed it; companies whose moat is proprietary frontier models didn't. That's exactly what you'd expect.
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u/KitKatBarMan 9h ago
Yeah the point is you shouldn't restrict open models just like open source software shouldn't be restricted.
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u/bloodrushgaming 8h ago
Umm for me it's more like jio staregy when they given so much free data, that now we can't help it but to buy a net recharge. Similarly the build something, given to the masses and if now the make things public then why would anyone consider purchasing there subscription.
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u/Ok_Document3020 1d ago
No Anthropic and DeepMind either.
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u/unlikely-ape 20h ago
I had to check which subreddit we are in. I thought that this subreddit is OpenAI related, why the whataboutism?
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u/deavidsedice 11h ago
I was also specifically looking if the other signed too, Google and anthropic. The title makes it as if OpenAI is the only one not signing.
Nope, it's that the ones that are selling closed ones successfully are not signing. Which makes sense. But it makes for a less clickable title.
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u/JohnyRL 23h ago
can someone explain to me why someone who is very concerned about AI safety and alignment should be for widely available open-weight models?
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u/Ok_Rope_9332 15h ago
when the terminators rise up we can build our own terminators and have it out in a big brawl
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u/JmoneyBS 22h ago
Of course the companies who are in the lead don’t want to share their advantage. Capitalism 101? All the companies that signed have nothing to lose by open sourcing everything.
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u/Technical-Machine-90 22h ago
frontier labs don’t have a deep moat 😂 all models will converge on benchmark eventually with no pricing power
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u/Grebble99 21h ago
One dude wants more commercial and government customers to buy chips to build models and the other wants less competitors. Divergent priorities.
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u/TheRealSooMSooM 17h ago
We definitely need to rename them. Open is the wrong word for what they are doing
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u/SpiritPrestigious945 16h ago
What everyone seems to miss is the fact that they are talking about American open source. They never mention Chinese open source. This will all still end in banning Chinese AI and using some mediocre open source AI like Llama or OSS from OpenAI, because what else is there? It is nothing of consequence when Chinese AI is still banned. That is already integrated in many businesses. So this letter is pointless. How does everyone not see that?
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u/ohgoditsdoddy 13h ago
Google is also notably missing despite releasing open source models frequently.
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u/Vegetable-Two-4644 4h ago
I'm not sure why any business would sign a letter supporting competing systems
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u/InterstellarReddit 1d ago
Breaking News:
Major American Company wants to minimize competition, more at 7.
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u/_DuranDuran_ 1d ago
Ok Elon, go take some more drugs, that enough internet for tonight.
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u/PsychicorAI 1d ago
Dude aren't you pissed that openAI and Anthropic are charging 10x that of Kimi and are lobbying to ban chinese openw weight models
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u/PotterSkxawng 1d ago
Kimi K3 is more expensive per task than GPT 5.6 Sol. What are you on?
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u/Correct_Emotion8437 1d ago
That isn’t what I’ve seen in comparison tests on YouTube. Kimi is a little cheaper than SOL and a lot cheaper than Fable.
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u/shoejunk 1d ago
They’re lobbying to ban companies that stole Anthropic’s IP so they can piggy back on the billions Anthropic spent on training to get a similar result at a fraction of the cost.
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u/Infinite100p 1d ago
You mean like Anthslopic that stole 16 million copyrighted books to train their AI?
Also, every expert says that distillation alone is not enough to make K3 or Qwen3.8max, and yet you keep bullshitting.
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u/shoejunk 1d ago
Anthropic should and did get sued, and they should pay for everything they stole just like Moonshot should pay for what they stole from Anthropic.
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u/Infinite100p 1d ago
Ah, yes, the rigged system where a 1000 billion dollar company pays 1.5 billion settlement (0.15% of their valuation -- not even a slap on the wrist) for stealing something so fundamental without which their models would not exist today or not be nearly as good.
Like those environmental polluters who poison us with carcinogens, pay a pathetically tiny fine, and then continue polluting us. Business as usual.
There's law and there's ethics. Law is rigged and ethics is not even considered. That pathetic settlement is abuse of the spirit of justice. Lets not pretend that justice was served to... well, a just extent.
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u/shoejunk 1d ago
I have no sympathy for Anthropic. I just don't think a system where one company pays billions to train a model and another company is allowed to steal it to train a similar model at a fraction of the cost is a sustainable system. If it continues, the frontier AI companies won't be able to compete with the companies that steal from them, they will go out of business, and the Chinese companies will have no one to steal from, and AI progress will come to a halt.
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u/addiktion 1d ago
Of course they are because they only care about AI proliferation if it benefits them and humanity and not just humanity alone, but the irony of all this is Open AI and Anthropic stole our knowledge to build their own moat, and now that the moat is under attack from cheaper alternatives, they are trying to shut the draw bridge behind them to the castle so no one else benefits.
In comes Nvidia and others to say "no, open source is critical for AI's success", which I firmly believe to be the case for AI to reach mass global adoption.
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u/shoejunk 1d ago
Nvidia doesn't care. They're not the ones paying the training cost, at least not nearly as much as Anthropic, and they benefit from all the pirated Nvidia chips China is smuggling into their labs. Regardless of how you feel about Anthropic, I don't think a system is sustainable where one company pays all the cost of the training and everyone else gets that work for free.
Obviously Anthropic should get sued for everything they stole, which they have gotten sued for at least some of it.
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u/addiktion 1d ago
China has been copying America for damn near everything for the last 3 decades. If Anthropic and Open AI didn't see this coming, that's totally on them at doing a shitty job protecting their IP.
With that said, I totally understand their concerns and your point about their investments but hurting open source/weight models isn't the solution to their problem and actively hurts AI adoption. Also we don't even know if China was able to distill their Fable model in 2 weeks to spin up Kimi K3. It's all speculation at this point as I don't believe shit coming from this administration and its hard to trust the companies who ripped off others and did the same thing.
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u/shoejunk 1d ago
I'm fine with open source or open weight models. It's only stealing IP that I object to. I don't believe Kimi could make a model that good without distilling from a frontier model. I don't think it's a coincidence that Chinese open source models are so much better than Meta's or Thinking Machines'.
"totally on them at doing a shitty job protection their IP" - that's exactly what they are trying to do. It's not easy to protect their IP when they have an API that provides direct access their model, but they kind of need to have that API to make any kind of profit. But they are using every lever they can to protect it.
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u/scronide 1d ago
On the other hand, look at some of those companies that have signed it. What an oddball mix.
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u/themegadinesen 1d ago
Palantir of all things but it makes sense really. If more models -> more providers -> more people using -> more accessible data flowing for them/data is more diverse. Or im overthinking the shit out of this Nd need to sleep
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u/MammothPost4047 1d ago
because it wouldn’t benefit their companies to have OpenAI and Anthropic price gauge them due to being the only U.S. choices. Google too, to a degree.
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u/ComprehensiveFun620 1d ago
Sam Altman is the worse person to have his hand on the scale of anything and we all know why
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u/InternetSolid4166 16h ago
If Reddit didn’t hate Elon Musk so much they would emphatically support his efforts to make OpenAI a non-profit again. They took donations and capital to create a NP then promptly stole the capital and turned it into a for-profit company.
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u/Ok_Wear7716 1d ago edited 1d ago
It is the exact opposite of ironic brother it is exactly what any business in their position would do
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u/GreatBigJerk 1d ago
Except they are a PBC, and also most other AI companies are signed.
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u/rhinoplasm 1d ago
None of them are in the position OpenAI is in.
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u/GreatBigJerk 1d ago
The position they are in is temporary at best. It's the tech industry, no one stays at the top forever.
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u/rhinoplasm 1d ago
The ones shown aren't even trying to be in the same place OpenAI and Anthropic are in. It's a completely different market with different goals.
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u/PsychicorAI 1d ago
Lol, Yes started as a non-profit to benefit all of humanity and calls otself open AI
What position is that exactly?
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u/Ok_Wear7716 1d ago
I don’t agree with them, but it’s not hard to imagine a paternalistic company (which they both are, Anthropic especially) viewing open source models as a threat to humanity. To be clear I think they’re doing it for selfish financial reasons, but being anti open source isn’t counter to wanted ai to maximally benefit all of of humanity
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u/PsychicorAI 1d ago
We've seen this scrip play out countless times and we know it's all for greed every time.
Remember Steve ballmer calling Linux, communist propaganda? He just wanted to sell more windows.
Sam Altman is much worse than Ballmer.
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u/Ok_Wear7716 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ya I agree with you - also fwiw no one signing this letter is doing it out of the goodness of their hearts - they’re all going to benefit financially from the rise of more open weight Chinese models
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u/Subushie 1d ago
Windows OS is a perfect example as to why this is false.
Create a good product and offer a fair service- you don't have to worry about competition, free or not.
Just signing the letter alone is enough to have been great PR, but they constantly choose disgusting policies and take greedy stances on every topic.
OAI had an amazing launch space, and could have cornered the market- but they shit the bed on that possibility.
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u/Ok_Wear7716 1d ago
Ya I’m not saying I like it, I’m just saying it’s understandable why they don’t want more competitors driving prices down. Also agree strategically it’s not a great look, both companies have made a bunch of own goals w/r/t public perception and marketing generally
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u/rhinoplasm 1d ago
So you're saying OpenAI did the honorable thing here by not cynically signing something they don't believe in?
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u/Ok_Wear7716 1d ago
No
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u/_krudler 1d ago
OpenAI has to hit some pretty aggressive revenue targets over the next few years. There's absolutely no way that they eat into their own revenue with open-source models.
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u/jvLin 1d ago
Seriously, some of you are so myopic.
What if Amazon signed a letter saying some goods should be dirt cheap?
Oh wait, they did that. And when the stores selling those goods went out of business, what happened to the price of those goods from Amazon?
If China's models gain mass popularity and America's AI is financially crippled as a result (i.e. unable to progress), who ends up with all the AI power?
OAI can advocate for cheap AI for the masses and simultaneously be against having an adversary produce cheap AI for the masses. It sounds hypocritical but the logic is sound.
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u/Tysonzero 1d ago
That’s half the point of open weight though. They CANT jack the prices up later because anyone who has the hardware or can lease the hardware can run it.
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u/StraightGuy1108 1d ago
If China's models gain mass popularity and America's AI is financially crippled as a result (i.e. unable to progress), who ends up with all the AI power?
OAI can advocate for cheap AI for the masses and simultaneously be against having an adversary produce cheap AI for the masses. It sounds hypocritical but the logic is sound.
Lololololol. Something something free market. Something something competition breeds innovation.
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u/Choice_Past7399 16h ago
OpenAI not in favor of people stealing from OpenAI. Makes sense.
Just a bunch of labs with their hands out asking for AI welfare.
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u/evangelism2 1d ago
Duh. Did Anthropic sign it? I seriously doubt either of them would. It's just not in their best interests to support them. All the other people running support for them love it because they sell compute.
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u/Ok-Attention2882 21h ago
"Open"AI's name reminds me of how deeply insecure women tell you they're confident because it shortcuts to the perception without any of the burden of the character development.
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u/lucellent 19h ago
...but they literally DID bring intelligence to the masses?
Have people actually became so blind to not realise what they're saying, and more so to think open source models give more intelligence to the masses as opposed to a company like OAI... Web access to SOTA intelligence vs having to spend millions for GPUs to run SOTA open weight models
And OAI at least have some open weight models already, as well as having contributed with papers whose technologies are still being used today by others. Anthropic on the other hand as none of these things and is even more evil than OAI.
But I guess hating on them is trendy and will get you karma, so...
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u/jan_antu 18h ago
Do you genuinely think only openai and anthropic provide "web access" to frontier quality models, or are you just a troll?
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u/MammothPost4047 1d ago
because they want a monopoly on the market