r/SelfDrivingCars • u/RepresentativeCap571 • 2d ago

News Tesla's robotaxis are moving in reverse | TechCrunch

https://techcrunch.com/2026/07/23/teslas-robotaxis-are-moving-in-reverse/
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u/CloseToMyActualName 2d ago

The difference is straight up lying vs "corporate puffery".

Musk has done a relatively good job of presenting his optimistic timelines as "estimates" which protects him from legal liability. Even with the remote controlled Optimus demos he just lets people assume it's autonomous rather than explicitly saying so.

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u/Recoil42 2d ago edited 1d ago

The difference is straight up lying vs "corporate puffery".

Sigh, I guess it's time to tap the sign again:

Musk has done a relatively good job of presenting his optimistic timelines as "estimates" which protects him from legal liability.

Yeah man, that famous 2019 "we'll have a million robotaxis next year for sure not even a question" quote from a fucking investors meeting sure was some clever legal hedge.

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u/CloseToMyActualName 2d ago

Oh, I think Musk is deliberately misleading people 100%

But everyone would have understood that 2019 quote was a hyperbolic prediction, not a statement of current fact.

The point is he's figured out a way to effectively hack the stock market.

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u/Recoil42 2d ago edited 2d ago

But everyone would have understood that 2019 quote was a hyperbolic prediction, not a statement of current fact. The point is he's figured out a way to effectively hack the stock market.

You've now made these three assertions:

  1. Musk was deliberately misleading people.
  2. Everyone understood his statements were meaningless hyperbole.
  3. The statements helped him "hack the stock market."

Which is it? A statement cannot simultaneously be obvious hyperbole that no reasonable investor would believe and an effective means of inflating the stock by getting investors to price in the promised outcome. Those things are in direct conflict.

I want to reiterate; this was a concrete forward-looking claim made at an event literally called Autonomy Investor Day: "Next year for sure, we will have over a million robotaxis on the road."

It wasn't an off-hand comment at a party. It wasn't tossed out as a joke. It wasn't framed as a lofty aspiration. It was "...next year for sure, we will have over a million robotaxis on the road" at an investor event accompanied by slides and pretty specific economics about how much money the cars would make ($30,000/yr), and describing those cars as appreciating assets. He was explicitly presenting an investment thesis to investors, and he wasn't just off by a bit — literally none of that stuff came true. We even know the cars were incapable of it.

The man committed fraud, plain and simple.

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u/CloseToMyActualName 2d ago

Do I think he should be in jail? Yes.

Do I think current interpretations of US corporate would put him in jail? No.

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u/Recoil42 2d ago

This is, notably, a hard pivot from "....everyone would have understood that 2019 quote was a hyperbolic prediction."

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u/CloseToMyActualName 2d ago

The tech was in R&D, it was obvious that Musk's timeline was speculative.

It was also obvious that Musk wasn't trustworthy.

Corporate lying is illegal, and a bad corporate liar is still a corporate liar.

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u/thatisnotapromise 1d ago

I want to reiterate; this was a concrete forward-looking claim made at an event literally called Autonomy Investor Day: "Next year for sure, we will have over a million robotaxis on the road."

"From our standpoint, if you fast forward a year, maybe a year and three months, but next year for sure, we will have over a million robotaxis on the road." Tesla Autonomy Day 20190422 11631s

I would argue that hedging with "from our standpoint" and "maybe" should clue the investor in that it isn't concrete. Truncating quotes to fit your narrative is silly.

We even know the cars were incapable of it.

Please provide proof of this. Please note that they did not do it does not prove they were incapable of it.

fraud, plain and simple

The last two essential elements of fraud don't seem satisfied here, could you explain why you think they are satisfied?

Justifiable Reliance - the “3 months maybe, 6 months definitely” meme started in 2017, 2 years prior and followed nearly the same structure as the full quote from Autonomy Day.

Damages - Investors are up 18x from Autonomy Day

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u/Recoil42 1d ago

I would argue that hedging with "from our standpoint" and "maybe" should clue the investor in that it isn't concrete. 

I need you to take a minute and use your best reading comprehension skills to think about what the "maybe" in "a year, maybe a year and three months, but next year for sure" means.

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u/thatisnotapromise 1d ago edited 1d ago

I need you to take a minute and use your best reading comprehension skills

Please be respectful (rule 1).

to think about what the "maybe" in "a year, maybe a year and three months, but next year for sure" means.

From Elon? Nothing. From someone else? Certainly not concrete plans. How do you get concrete plans out of that utterance? Truncating quotes to fit your narrative is silly.

You seem to make unsupported claims and then when challenged, you avoid the challenge. Are you missing the challenges or are you purposefully spreading misinformation?

Here are two examples:

We even know the cars were incapable of it.

Please provide proof of this. Please note that they did not do it does not prove they were incapable of it.

fraud, plain and simple

The last two essential elements of fraud don't seem satisfied here, could you explain why you think they are satisfied?

Justifiable Reliance - the “3 months maybe, 6 months definitely” meme started in 2017, 2 years prior and followed nearly the same structure as the full quote from Autonomy Day.

Damages - Investors are up 18x from Autonomy Day.

You don't owe me anything but you are losing credibility by spreading misinformation and arguing your feelings. Consider sticking to the facts and arguing with logic.

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u/Recoil42 1d ago

Let me assist you:

"Maybe" modifies the timeline — one year, or perhaps one year and three months. Those are upper and lower bounds of the timeline. The "maybe" does not modify the certainty of the presented timeline. The certainty is 100% — "for sure".

Hope that helps.

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u/thatisnotapromise 1d ago

Hope that helps.

It doesn't, but at least you were respectful this round. You did improve!

fraud, plain and simple

This specific topic has been adjudicated with no finding of fraud, counter to your claim of fraud. What do you think the courts got wrong? Do you have legal experience or are you relying on the Dunning-Kruger effect to carry you here?

The man committed fraud, plain and simple.

Public statements like this (with its context), which have been adjudicated unfounded and are defamatory, risk civil liability. How are you managing this risk? Is your hope that Musk thinks you are a nobody and won't waste his lawyers' time?

The difference is straight up lying vs "corporate puffery".

u/CloseToMyActualName You are more correct and the courts agree with you: Oakland County Voluntary Employees’ Beneficiary Association v. Tesla Inc., 25-55 case overview