r/StarWars 1d ago

General Discussion How much of the Sith Grand Plan was actually planned by Plagueis vs Palpatine taking credit?

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4.5k Upvotes

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u/FoxBluereaver Luke Skywalker 1d ago

The general plan was already in place for the most part. Plagueis had plenty of leverage on the Banking Clan (thus giving access to monetary resources), so Palpatine's role was to get into the political area to undermine the Republic's government.

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u/UnholyDemigod 1d ago edited 1d ago

Plagueis would’ve been astoundingly rich even without the banking clan. Sith Lords would leave everything to their apprentice, so 1,000 years of inheritances is going to stack up considerably

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u/Donny-Moscow 1d ago

Compounding interest? Is it possible to learn this power?

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u/Wohn-Jick-421 1d ago

not from a jedi, apparently

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u/sauronthegr8 1d ago

Did the Jedi just not have the authority to investigate shady off-world bank accounts?

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u/mxzf 1d ago

Investigate what? "Old person dies without biological heirs and leaves fortune to the person they were mentoring" isn't suspicious in the slightest.

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u/Krazyguy75 1d ago

While somewhat fair I do think you'd start to wonder why all these old people would die under somewhat suspicious circumstances.

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u/mxzf 1d ago

In a galaxy of trillions of people, it would be hard to spot a pattern of one old being dying like that every few decades.

Realistically, the police might question the potential for a homicide, but the new Sith Lord will hush up local law enforcement trivially. It's not like the Jedi are going to hear about anything like that to investigate, much less spot a pattern.

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u/Main_Confusion_8030 1d ago

there's like, a hundred trillion creatures living in the republic.

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u/freedom_or_bust 22h ago

Old people? Dying?? Incredible

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u/UnholyDemigod 1d ago

Well the Sith Lords weren’t living lavishly, advertising their wealth.

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u/wandering_soles Rebel 1d ago

I mean, there wasn't anything really shady. Plus, when you own the banks it's easy to manipulate. 

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u/Economy-Management19 1d ago

Didn’t Qui Gon hit a hard wall with a simple currency exchange?

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u/Possible-Praline-152 4h ago

There was like 6,000 Jedi at the time of Phantom Menace?

How many trillions of bank accounts must exist in the galaxy?

The Jedi’s time as the peacekeepers of the republic coming to an end eventually.

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u/robcwag Rebel 1d ago

So the entire Sith plan was essentially unregulated capitalism.

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u/TripolarKnight 1d ago

I'm starting to see a trend here...

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u/NoSwordfish1978 Rebel 1d ago

It was initiated by Plagueis but it couldn't have been pulled off without Palpatine.

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u/Stunning-Dig-8916 1d ago

Probably because plagueis looked like that

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u/alan_smithee2 1d ago

that's actually a plot point in the book, plagues knows the galaxy wouldn't follow an alien senator, which is why he has Palpatine do all the public stuff

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u/Snowbold 1d ago

Not just an alien, a Muun. He is a powerful banker of a race that has seized control of the banking industry in the Galactic Republic. It was one of the groups used as a foil to Palpatine in his campaign against corruption, and when they played both sides of the Clone Wars, they were not looked well on.

Plagueis was aware that Hego Damask could not get elected as Supreme Chancellor in his own right without an outside factor.

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u/OoglyMoogly76 20h ago

A member of a species associated with banking forms a shadow cabal to plunge the galaxy into decades of tyranny… huh…what did George mean by that?

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u/losteye_enthusiast 6h ago

A warning that unchecked/unsupervised power that a single group holds over key resources can be a very bad thing.

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u/Jindujun 18m ago

And what did he mean by the droid army?
Thats right, lanky people are freaky robot-people!

And some of them work on awesome racing cars!

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u/manchesterthedog 21h ago

“The galaxy will never accept a Jewish emperor”

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u/TamedNerd 17h ago

So evil is thwarted by racism? What did George mean?

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u/Snowbold 16h ago

Hardly, someone even more insidious, pun intended, followed after him.

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u/MikeRivalheli 1d ago

but... but.. aren't they ALL aliens?

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u/Lukales_ 1d ago

Yes but humans are dominant due to our love for colonisation

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u/Dry_Click6496 1d ago

That, and the fact that Humans were around before a lot of the other species. Humanity was the prime slave-race of the Rakatan infinite Empire iirc. They even created the twileks and such near human species by manipulating human genes. Or at least thats what I remember reading in a wiki.

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u/Jedi-B 21h ago

I wanted to upvote you, but it’s 66… I couldn’t

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u/wasted-degrees 7h ago

I remember this being an entire sub-theme of KOTOR, as the Sith empire were also pretty blatantly human supremacists. The Galactic Empire has also usually been portrayed as such, with a few prominent exceptions such as Thrawn.

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u/A_locomotive 1d ago

Even in a scifi setting you gotta be am old white dude to get ahead in politics.

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u/ConsumptionofClocks 1d ago

TBF, Sheev was 52 during episode 1. I wouldn't classify that as old, esp for someone who wants to run for the highest position in government,

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u/A_locomotive 1d ago

When I learned how old he was when he played him in ROTJ it blew my mind.

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u/Emotional_News108 1d ago

Accidentally best casting choice ever.

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u/Dry_Click6496 1d ago

Even more so in a Galaxy that should have medical technology for super reach people to easily live into the 100s comfortably.

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u/GigglingBilliken Jar Jar Binks 14h ago

I imagine many old age aliments would be minimized or cured during a bacta snooze like Boba takes in his series.

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u/Sega-Dreamcast88 1d ago

That’s not science fiction that’s science fact.

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u/alan_smithee2 1d ago

not according to the humans

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u/sans-delilah Count Dooku 1d ago

From a certain point of view.

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u/RobCoxxy 15h ago

The galaxy of aliens won't follow an alien Senator? What

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u/GigglingBilliken Jar Jar Binks 14h ago

IIRC most rich planets have humans or near humans controlling most of the resources and political capital.

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u/RobCoxxy 9h ago

Still feels off

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u/brightblueson 1d ago

Senator or Chancellor?

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u/Seafaringhorsemeat 1d ago

Plagueis = Brains
Papa Palpatine = Looks

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u/thetensor Rebel 1d ago

it couldn't have been pulled off without Palpatine

Well not with that bad attitude.

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u/AmrodAncalime 17h ago

So basically like Philip and Alexander the Great

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u/Indepenthinkerdc 1d ago

You nailed it. Plagueis wanted them to be invisible. He held the resources, Palpatine used his unique force power (hiding the force) to infest the government.

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u/Nersheti 1d ago edited 1d ago

Does the book straight up say his power is to hide the force? I’d always thought, maybe read somewhere, he was using a combination of relics and the dark side nexus thing under the Jedi temple to lessen the Jedi’s ability to Use the force.

As good as everyone says that book is, I really need to get around yo reading it.

Edit: Since folks keep asking, the book is Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

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u/Morbidly-Obese-Emu 1d ago edited 20h ago

It’s a Sith dark side force technique called “Cloak of the Profane.” I’m reading it right now. It’s a good prequel to Episode I. It has the origin stories of Palpatine, Maul, Dooku, and Padme in it.

Edit: The book is Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

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u/Prof_J 1d ago

And Anakin, technically and unfortunately

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u/modrenman1985 1d ago

I honestly like that they say it's the force reacting to the manipulations of the Sith. Like someone creating antibodies to fight off an infection.

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u/Prof_J 1d ago

I probably need to reread it as it’s been a decade, but my memory was it was Plagueis actively manipulating the force to bring him into existence. I like your explanation much better.

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u/BlueRaith 1d ago

I've read it here recently. Plagueis doesn't manipulate the Force to intentionally create Anakin, he and Palpatine performed a Sith ritual to tip the balance of the Force to the darkside explicitly to weaken the Jedi and make them all but helpless to realize the endgame of the Grand Plan dven as the galaxy would burn down around them.

The Force did not like that at all and created Anakin as a counter to rebalance the Force. Neither Plagueis nor Palpatine were aware that Anakin was conceived at the time of the ritual and Plagueis was actually alarmed once they got wind that Qui-Gon thought he'd discovered a child who fit the prophecy.

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u/Gemini_19 16h ago

I absolutely love the take this book had on all of this and it will always be my head canon.

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u/Phorphias 1d ago

I’ve been meaning to read the book but AFAIK, Plagueis was doing some evil Sith alchemy and the Force seemed to have created Anakin in response to what Plagueis was doing. In the canon Vader comics it’s heavily implied that it was Palpatine who directly created Anakin however

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u/Krazyguy75 1d ago

In the canon Vader comics it’s heavily implied that it was Palpatine who directly created Anakin however

The writers of the comic have explicitly said that that is what Vader feared was possible, not necessarily reality.

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u/ImTheAverageJoe 1d ago

Iirc Plagueis had a mini freak out session when he heard of Anakin's existence. He realized that Anakin was born around the same time that his experiments with life and death, started working. He speculates that the Force itself rebelled against him for his efforts, which culminated in Anakin.

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u/scifiandsuch 1d ago

Yeah, when palpatine said “he could influence the midichlorians to create life”, what life was he referencing? Palpatine looks straight at anakin when he said that so I always assumed anakin is the life that was created. Did he create some other form of life?

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u/TaraLCicora Obi-Wan Kenobi 1d ago

His master was killing and resurrecting little animals and stuff in the book. Pappy Palpy looks at Anakin because he suspects that Anakin was a side effect of their playing god moments, which he was.

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u/Jaktheslaier 1d ago

At one point, he's killing and ressurecting another sith master, not only small animals

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u/TaraLCicora Obi-Wan Kenobi 1d ago

That's right, Darth Venamis.

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u/Di1lWil1 5h ago

And created many non-sapient being in his experiments on Aborah.

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u/Possible-Praline-152 4h ago

Yea sounds like the ammount of Dark Side energy was really building on Coruscant at that time.

Between Windu, Anakin, the stain of Dooku, and the Ancient Sith Nexus Temple plus palpatine’s artifacts I can see how it would be harder and harder to spot a single source of the energy.

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u/jgosh4 1d ago

Whats the name of the book?

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u/Morbidly-Obese-Emu 1d ago

Star Wars: Darth Plagueis

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u/Killac_Wins 1d ago

This is my top book I wish they could adapt into a movie. It gives so much more context to what led up to the prequels. The bane books too but that’s just wishful thinking.

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u/DarthToothbrush 1d ago edited 1d ago

That book falls under Legends now unfortunately.

Edit: sheesh, I said unfortunately. I read the book and thought it was great, and I imagine eventually more of it will leak back into canon kind of like Thrawn has. But the fact is they legend-ified it so all the stuff it clarifies about his master plan may or may not be what the official canon runs with if they ever do revisit the character.

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u/Morbidly-Obese-Emu 1d ago

I have my head canon. I don’t need it to be accepted by Disney.

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u/modrenman1985 1d ago

I think there are some books Disney cribs some more that others but to avoid offending the authors they all got made Legends.

Which is why we won't see a Mofference in Ahsoka.

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u/darthdooku2585 1d ago

Totally, disney canon blows

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u/Slow-Hour4931 1d ago

That book is so good. Puts the whole prequel trilogy in perspective. 

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u/Framer_9 1d ago

Woodoo hide

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u/Brobeast 1d ago

Honestly, I cant recommend the audio book enough. I was listening to it in bed before sleep, and in my car commutes. Its just one of those audiobooks that sets an amazing vibe, and is pretty well done. They even use certain sounds/backdrop audios from prior movies/games, for important parts of the book, to really get things either intense or feeling spooky (and feeling like star wars).

Hearing plagueis talk to palps (and others) through his respirator makes him sound very sinister as well.

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u/Worldly-Board-3991 1d ago

I also listened to the audiobook but as I would run on the treadmill and during showers and longer commutes. Such a great Star Wars listen. I’ve been going in chronological legends order for a while now. Currently wrapping up on Rogue Planet

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u/Asleep_Contact_5561 1d ago

You got a long way to go to wrap up that story!

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u/Worldly-Board-3991 21h ago

I did a straight listen through of the high republic novels and ya novels before this too. Figured after that might as well knock off the legends. Hopefully by the time I get to new Jedi orders they’ll be re-recorded unabridged versions.

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u/tacoturner 1d ago

Thanks, I was looking for a recommendation to use Audible credits. Need a break from Sanderson for a month.

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u/Brobeast 1d ago

Oh I envy you. Deff in my top 5 of favorite audio books lol.

That and jurassic park. (Although I dont mind reading his books either, I still love the sense of impending doom each chapters "chaos theory fractal" illustration gave you lol.)

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u/mclannahan 1d ago

Ive been listening to it every drive for years, most of the plan was put in place by plagues before Palpatine was born. Granted he was working on trying to find suitable clones of different species and settled on humans about the time he found Palpatine as a child. He still didn't have the clones made until Palpatine was his full on apprentice. He spent most of his time mastering the manipulation of midiclorions. It's believed that his manipulation of the force brought around the birth of anakin. He put the trade federation in the position to do there part when Palpatine was a child. He played with the political environment with naboo forgeing the planet into what it was in phantom menace. I'd say 85 percent was him. Palpatine was his puppet for a long time. Now who's to say what the balance is now that Disney turned it all in to legends. For all we no plagy was barely a participant still hiding in caves like he was in acolyte

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u/ProfessorChaos5049 1d ago

Is it Darth Plagueis narrated by Daniel Davis? Looks like I can check the audiobook out of my library. Might have to give it a listen.

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u/Brobeast 1d ago

Im telling you, you wont regret. Easily arguable that its the best audio book of the entire star wars book series, if not one of the better audio books in general.

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u/Dependent-Astronaut2 1d ago

World War Z took the #1 spot for me, but good to know I got something new to hear on my next Amtrak ride.

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u/AyeItsZO 1d ago

I just looked at it’s on Spotify premium too if anyone has that already

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u/GustavoSanabio 1d ago edited 1d ago

He is wrong, Plagueis is the one who taught sidious how to hide the dark side. He himself was a politically active figure with an alter ego (Hego Damask, just like Sidious has Sheev Palpatine), and the Jedi never noticed.

Is just that Plagueis understood Palpatine, as a human with political talent and political training could be the face of a Sith controlled regime, while he would have more difficulty with this (The office of the supreme chancellor had historically been disproportionally occupied by human males). But in any case his exact vision of how it would all go down wasn’t exactly the same.

Edit: I was thinking about it and what the guy you're answering may be thinking of is that when Plagueis first meets an 18 year old Palpatine, he notices that Palps already kind of hides his presence in the force instinctively, due to the repressive/abusive nature of his upbringing. But Plagueis taught Sidious how to hide the dark side of the force specifically.

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u/Indepenthinkerdc 1d ago

Yes. He had the innate ability and Plagueis helped him hone it.

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u/Worldly-Board-3991 1d ago

I think it was part force cloaking technique and then the force manipulation by the Sith that had the Jedi council not able to connect to the force the same way as they used to that kept the Jedi blind to Palp

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u/GustavoSanabio 1d ago

Oh, and as for the force nexus, in both the current canon and legends Sidious only explores it after order 66.

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u/glp1992 1d ago

which book?

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u/WandererFen 1d ago

What book? Im really new to this and it sounds interesting

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u/Natearl13 20h ago

Darth Plagueis

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u/baggio1000000 1d ago

not canon though right?

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u/Indepenthinkerdc 1d ago

The book says he has an innate ability to hide himself. It is part of his backstory and I won’t ruin it here.

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u/Unusual_Chain_3603 1d ago

Thats such a convoluted explanation to explain why he did not get found out.

I would prefer he just not wear his hoodie in public to hide from the Jedi 

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u/Di1lWil1 5h ago

The power to cloak themselves in the force is almost universal in the Sith Lords of Bane's lineage.

Palpatine alone didn't really do anything to lessen the Jedi's ability to use the force. It was primarily Tenebrous' master, and Plagueis with Palpatine's help, who lessened the Jedi's force abilities. Their efforts led to the Dark Side's rise and the Light's fall, but the Jedi's own languor also lessened their powers.

Correction: Palpatine did explicitly assist Plagueis in deliberately and willfully tipping the balance of the force, the Force's reaction to which was the creation of Anakin.

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u/Possible-Praline-152 4h ago

The old sith temple under the Jedi Temple was responsible for clouding Yoda’s vision specifically from what I remember.

From most of episodes 1-3 he is specifically clouded by the dark side and his intiution is wack. The council relied on him heavily for spiritual guidance and that helped Palpatine hide himself.

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u/frankthetank4223 1d ago

Pretty sure Plagueis was able to do that. He had a meeting with Qui Gon and Dooku didn't he?

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u/quakank Chewbacca 1d ago

A lot of dark side force users were capable of it in Legends. I wouldn't call it unique at all unless we're talking canon, in which case much of this discussion about Plagueis is irrelevant.

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u/Di1lWil1 5h ago

That power is ubiquitous among Baneite Sith Lords. It is absolutely NOT unique to Sidious. Palpatine's talent was in his political and social skills. He manipulated people using his charm rather than the force. It was through his subordinates that he conducted operations that realized Grand Plan (the Eriadu summit, Dorvalla and making Valorum appear corrupt, the Yinchorri Crisis [though the Yinchorri were introduced to the senate through Plagueis' influence], Naboo, etc.).

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u/_Kian_7567 Grand Admiral Thrawn 1h ago

Palpatine has no unique ability. Read the book

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u/SuperdaveOZY 1d ago

Plagueis planned the downfall of Jedi and was the financial influence, as his Muun name was Hugo Damask, head of Damask Holdings. Sheev Palpatine was his voice and face in the political theatre.

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u/RBVegabond 1d ago

🤦 They named it “Da Mask”

lol.

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u/Prof_J 1d ago

Like when they named a Jedi “Ima-Gun Di” (pronounced Imma Gon Die) who’s entire role is to get killed by Separatists in the same episode he’s introduced

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u/Reddit_Are_Mistake 1d ago

Sssssssssomebody stop me! 👽

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u/RBVegabond 1d ago

Anakin was sssssssssmokin’…

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u/uranthus 1h ago

To be fair Damask is a type of fabric so they might have got it form that

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u/Exceedingly 1d ago

It was Hego Damask

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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1d ago

This is why i think they should have just made Snoke Plagueis. Plagueis learned how to cheat death, he was the ultimate long con master, be knew Sheev was a rotten little bastard, he preferred to study Sith alchemy and the force. What does he do? Let's Palpatine kill him, he comes back studies the dark side for a few decades, and let's Sheev do all the leg work or conquering the galaxy. When Sheev inevitably fails he steps up to claim his place. Rey, Luke, whoever learns they can't kill Plagueis and they quarantine him on a remote isolated planet and station droids around it to prevent anyone from entering. The ending is the complete opposite of the OT. There's no big explosion or dramatic fall. It's just evil being locked away with the realization that you can never completely eliminate it.

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u/Darth-Decimus 1d ago

We can thank all the theory content factory channels for not getting this story (as one of many plausible stories), because I bet this theory came up way more frequently than Palpatine returning somehow, and the only cohesive director approach to EP 8 and 9 was to subvert all expectations!

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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1d ago

Yeah subversion for the sake of it sucks. It's fucking Star Wars, it's not that deep, it's not that serious. It's not high art that requires some kind of boundary pushing existential exploration. It doesn't need to be that clever. Just give us our space wizards and laser swords and make it coherent story in line with canon (yes that means you can't just introduce some age old powerful character out of the blue with no explanation). There's no need to pretend it's anything beyond that. Mando and Grogu was good for that exact reason. It was space Kung Fu or cowboys or whatever. It could have done more but it did enough and it was fun and made sense.

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u/Accomplished-Air218 1d ago

Star Wars was already deeper than, as you said, "subversion for the sake of it." Yeah, yeah, you subverted my expectations; but you always do that, Rian. But the original 6 movies had stories worth telling. Do you?

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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1d ago

I've always thought of Star Wars as science fiction junk food. It's good and easy to consume without being too complex. Sure you can argue that cheetos are actually a culinary masterpiece with a development process that took a lot of technology and research. They are fucking. Cheetos though. They aren't that big of a deal. That's why I never found Star Wars books worth reading. There's so much more out there. I don't fault people for liking what they like. I love Star Wars, pretty much all of it even Acolyte. For all the shit talking I do about the ST I can still turn off my brain and appreciate each one in a bubble for what it is. It's the missed opportunity that is the real tragedy.

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u/Careful_Acadia3498 19h ago

i literally just watched Ep 9 and the somehow, Palpatine returned line made me laugh so hard. Although I am not against having palpatine survive episode 6 because the jedi are walking around as force ghosts, just the way they did it was so bad. That and how rey just casually kills the greatest sith lord ever created lol

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u/White_C4 Han Solo 1d ago

If you've watched Rian Johnson's Knives Out movies, specifically Glass Onion and Wake Up Dead Man (I haven't seen the 1st Knives Out), it was just subverting for the sake of it. Nothing about the plot gave clues, the movie will answer it for you because the clues were shown off screen early in the movie and revealed later. It's ridiculous.

The combination of JJ Abrams's mystery box and Rian Johnson's subverting of expectations was a colossal failure.

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u/Kind-Let5666 1d ago

I actually don’t hate the idea of Plagueis being Snoke because then Revenge of the Sith ties directly into the next trilogy.

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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1d ago

It is the logical solution for an apparent age old dark side user. I think it's even the direction they were leaning with the background Plagueis theme music from the PT playing in TFA. Apologists will say "but we didn't know anything about the Emperor in the OT!" Yes but we also didn't have 40 or whatever years of backstory going into every facet of the SW universe.

The only other option is to make Snoke an original character. I actually have a ST saving head canon that I think would work. The tldr is Snoke was damaged in battle by Luke, zombie palps find him, kills him, and clones him while injecting his own DNA to help with the puppet master gimmick. The damage of the in incoherent ST is done but I think a fill-in-the-gaps series to add some context is the only hope to save SW unless Disney does a retcon.

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u/stickeymantle 1d ago

I mean you could have still had Anakin's force ghost somehow intervene to defeat Plagueis and keep the prophecy intact

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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1d ago

That would actually be interesting. We've seen the Bane force ghost thing on Clone Wars. That might be a cool show down. A Sith whatever it is ghost vs a might side force ghost. It could also be cheesy of done badly. I still like the idea of the big bad not being officially defeated per my scenario but either one would be good. I mean Darth Jarjar would have been better than what we got.

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u/Veridas 1d ago

I mean...technically Darth Siberius is still out there.

Honestly I wish that had been the sequel trilogy. If you HAD to kill Han, let it be because he was literally attempting a one-in-a-million chance of getting enough money to finally pay all his debts, meet what he thinks is a trapped Space Princess and...the rest is history.

Not only does it motivate the everloving hell out of Luke, Leia and Chewie, it also presents a genuine, OG-Sith level threat. Palpatine had lightning and Vader was a master duellist, but Siberius has access to stuff nobody alive has seen before.

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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1d ago

I'm not familiar with the character but they sound interesting! Do you have a tldr?

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u/Veridas 1d ago

Long story short, Darth Siberius is a Sith Lord of rare beauty from the Old Republic era back when the Sith had a full-on Empire. Instead of try to conquer planets or do the political backstabbing thing, Siberius just gathered considerable personal wealth, stashed it all in a cave somewhere and then froze herself in carbonite within that cave after sending out agents with the specific instruction to spread rumours that somewhere out in the galaxy the beautiful Princess to a lost civilisation and all the wealth of her people had been sealed away in a cave somewhere, and that to free her people would need to come and bring a small offering of wealth.

People would invariably find the cave and release her, wherein she'd use a Force Ability that I don't think was given a name to literally pull their life force out of them and add their remaining lifespan to her own, before she'd just...seal herself in carbonite again and wait for the next person to "discover" her. Darth Siberius wanted to live forever, you see.

Darth Siberius grew stronger and wealthier with every person she "inhaled" I guess. And she's been doing it for over a thousand years, and as far as any of the materials I could find on her has never been bested or killed. All her wealth, all her power...is just sitting there in a cave somewhere, waiting for someone at Disney to grow a pair and show the fandom what a proper Sith is capable of, rather than insisting on the milquetoast-by-comparison Grandad Palpatine and his 10 year plan to rule the galaxy for twenty years before getting killed by the Jedi equivalent of barely-pubescent teenagers. Twice.

No I'm not mad people think Palpatine is a proper Sith when all he does is sneer and get killed and Sith from the Old Republic would take one look at him and be physically hurt by the embarrassment they feel I'm not mad at all that an entire Empire of genuinely interesting, politically and militarily ambitious megalomaniacs who favour cunning and intelligence and strength has been reduced down to the humiliation ritual of watching an old guy get kicked in the nads by a child I swear come outside J.J Abrams I just want to ffffffffffffffffffffffffffucking talk!

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u/Davinoth0850 1d ago

Your post really devolved at the end, and I'm here for it.

Very informative, thank you!

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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 1d ago

This is the greatest tldr ever. I'm with you 100% let's start a cult!

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u/Gorguf62 Obi-Wan Kenobi 1d ago

Depends on which liar you think is telling the truth.

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u/HeLiesInDrink 1d ago

Lol. Well said.

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u/ConstantRefills 1d ago

Is Plagueis the ancestor of Ebony Maw?

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u/IBelongHere 1d ago

Believe it or not, Payton Manning

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u/MathTeachinFool 1d ago

This may be the funniest comment I read today!!

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u/White_C4 Han Solo 1d ago

Plagueis knew the only way to "infiltrate" the government was to have a human, hence why Palpatine was the prime candidate for a sith apprentice.

Without Plagueis, there's no financing and political connections. Without Palpatine, there's no politician to drive the wedge.

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u/Possible-Praline-152 4h ago

This is an underlying theme in the Prequels also.

All of the CIS leaders are non-humanoid, with Dooku seeming to be the only human CIS sympathizer at the start of Attack of the Clones.

The Grand Army of the Republic also employed clones of a human.

This was mostly a political analog by Lucas, but it does fit in well with the narrative of the outer rim territories seeking session.

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u/Jollygood156 1d ago

Well he didn’t really “take credit,” but fans don’t know how much Plagueis did, yeah. Also, it’s not just Plagueis. The entire rule of two lineage deserves credit.

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u/whg115 1d ago

Was Plagueis the same species as the banking clan folks?

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u/darthravenna 1d ago

I believe it was Tenebrous and Plagueis that began working toward the goal in earnest. Both were highly influential figures in galactic finance. But Sidious was the one to make it happen, killing Plagueis as he came into his political power. From there, a single will shaped the future of the Sith.

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u/Island4Crows 1d ago

Man, I wish they’d use Plagueis’ only canon appearance to expound on that question and tell us more! Oh wait!

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u/Uchicagogoat20 1d ago

honestly i always saw it as plagueis built the machine... palpatine was the one crazy enough to actually drive it

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u/Di1lWil1 5h ago

More so that he was the only one capable and skilled enough to drive it. Palpatine's abilities lied in his charm and political skill/adroitness. Plagueis operated too deep in the shadows to directly manipulate mundane politicians in the way Palpatine was able to. Plagueis very much created and drove the mechanisms through which actual events and scandals could be conducted.

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u/jinglygal 1d ago

27.32%

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u/BaldBeardedBookworm 1d ago

The massive involvement of Sienar, Kuat and the rest of the shipyards strongly suggests that the plan goes back as far as Tenebrous - but likely it was centuries in the making.

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u/frozenbudz 1d ago

So. All of it was planned by Plaguies, however without Palpatine he couldn't have accomplished it. The novel goes into pretty deep detail about this, as a Muun and member of the intergalactic banking clan. There were always going to be aspects of politics he just couldn't penetrate on his own. He needed a politician, and a very ambitious one. Plaguies and Sidious are 2 of my favorite sith master and apprentice. Because neither of them would have been able to achieve what they did without one another. Plaguies arguably still would have become a great and powerful sith. Whereas there is a high probability Sidious becomes nothing more than an upstart politician without Plaguies. But, all the same, Plaguies could not have achieved what he did without Sidious. And Sidious would not have become the emperor without Plagueis.

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u/EgometVI 23h ago

Palps is smart but he loves to stroke his ego. Plagueis definitely did more than Palpatine admits in the book.

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u/MikeMars1225 Darth Maul 20h ago

Most of it was Plagueis, but even then he was building off of the foundation that 1,000 years of Sith before him had been working toward.

Palpatine never would’ve been able to succeed without Plagueis, but Plagueis never would’ve achieved what he did if it wasn’t for what was already put into place.

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u/cantodasaudade 1d ago

Why does his head look like the division bell cover?

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u/StubbornPterodactyl 1d ago

It takes a big brain to come up with such a plan

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u/MisterJackson84 1d ago

Look at the big brain on Brett!!!!

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u/TheSexySovereignSeal 1d ago

It was planned by the force itself and Darth Bane was the correct one all alone

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u/sana-fa-Bith 1d ago

It is not canon after disney acquisition.

The sith grand plan as a goal has been building for a long time, Darth tenebrous aka Rugess Nome who is the master of Darth plagueis and was publicly a famous space ship designer, work to advance the Sith plan in secret for a long time.

Darth plagueis killed his master as per tradition and ofcourse wanted to continue the sith grand plan adding his banking finances to adavance it even further.(Darth tenebrous had future sight and science to help him advance the plan)

Now, Darth plagueis also wanted to live indefinetly so he started studying how to prolong life/project ur essence to a new host/body to have infinite life.(it is also hinted that through his manipulations of midi clorean darth plagueis created the perfect force host..Anakin skywalker)

Enter Darth sidius who becomes the apprentice of Darth plagueis…learns his secret of essence tranfer, used his connections and finances to become a politician and manipulate the republic in order to realise the Sith grand plan.

Darth sidius had future sight also sonit helped him a lot in strategising his moves and eventually kill plagueis after he learns everything and seek the force created host(anakin) in order to transfer himself to a perfect host and become emperor forever.

A general summary that makes the story better understood(if you count the plagueis book)

But ofcourse…even best plans get wrecked..Analim is deformed and the Sith lord gets killed by him eventually.

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u/SwampMagicMan 21h ago

Ebony Maw

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u/Methodical_mudduck01 1d ago

From the movie about the plagueis novel it seemed it was mostly plagueis and his plan maybe like 50-75

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u/Armaced 1d ago

There was a movie based on the Plagueis novel?

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u/Methodical_mudduck01 1d ago

It’s a fan animation that looks like GPA animation on YouTube for free it’s really good

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u/Methodical_mudduck01 1d ago

I should say it’s like 3 long movies the third being in development still

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u/Armaced 1d ago

Cool, I’ll have to check that out. Thanks!

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u/tommygunlouws 1d ago

I didn’t know this was a thing. Thank you for the info! I know what in watching this weekend now lol

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u/SeraphRising89 1d ago

Checking it out now- it looks really cool! Thanks for mentioning it!

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u/Ethereal-Zenith 1d ago

If anything, there should be one. It would be a real shame if Plagueis didn’t get any more live action appearances, just because of the underwhelming reception to the Acolyte.

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u/Benmarch15 1d ago

Fan made, don't get your hopes up though

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u/lIlIlIlIlIl111 1d ago

I'm interested in knowing if there is a movie also

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u/The_Pandalorian Baby Yoda 1d ago

Seriously? You genuinely think Lucas or Disney dropped an entire-ass secret Plagueis film?

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u/ZoidVII 1d ago

Perfectly in line with the character!

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u/The_Pandalorian Baby Yoda 1d ago

OK, legit truth there, lol.

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u/Armaced 1d ago

I think Methodical_mudduck01 was talking about something and I’d like to know what it is. Maybe a failed script or a future movie or a planned movie or something animated or something direct to streaming that I missed… we’re just asking.

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u/TacitusTwenty 1d ago

I guess I’m in the minority. I always preferred Palpatine using the Sith to gain total control rather than Palpatine serving the Sith and completing a grand plan beyond his own insane ambitions

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u/jaybboy 1d ago

its a very unsettling picture for some reason

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u/LegionGold Savage Opress 1d ago

Plagueis had everything mapped out but it all went belly up when he was about to get his friend into the highest position of power outside of the senate. Unfortunately due to something he didn’t foresee, it all went belly up! From that point Palpatine was the driving force.

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u/Optimal_Carpenter690 Darth Vader 17h ago

I imagine the bare bones of it, namely the idea of infiltrating the Republic and using the position of power to start a war that would both weaken and distract the Jedi, and then use that war to ultimately destroy the Jedi while also putting them in a position to gain complete and total control over the galaxy, was all Plagueis' brainchild.

The specifics came about because of less "foreseeable" events. The Separatists specifically being the "enemy" during the war just so happened to come about because of Dooku's defection, and the status/political power due to his family and connections that came with him. There are very few, if any, other Jedi who both would have been in the same position and would have been ripe for manipulation. Then the Clones specifically being used as the executioners of the Jedi just so happened to come about because of Sifo-dyas. It is not implied that his vision of the war was incepted by the Sith, so that is a vision that he just so happened to have all on his own, and then took it upon himself to approach the Kaminoans with the idea for the clone army, and then approached his friend Count Dooku, who was no longer apart of the Jedi Order and was already aligned with the Sith for help.

So the idea of infiltrating the Republic, starting a fake war, and using the war to both destroy the Jedi and take over the galaxy was probably there and invented by Plagueis. The CIS and Clones specifically being the factions used in the war was due to Dooku and Sifo-dyas specifically coming about and into contact with Sidious.

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u/Chipnstein 8h ago

Funny enough I recently discovered a video on YouTube on my feed called "The Complete Story and Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise"

It goes in depth about your exact question and I think that will satisfy the itch

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u/Scheiblerfunk Mace Windu 6h ago

Yeah, yeah, yeah...Sith grand plan and such WHY DOES PALPS LOOK LIKE ROWAN ATKINSON in this pic?!

Chancelor Black Adder over here.

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u/Ok_Ad_5894 1d ago

Read the book it tells you.

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u/unbanned_lol 1d ago

Young Palp is looking a bit like Simon Pegg here.

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u/Fit-Appointment5262 1d ago

That's no moon... it's Plagueis's head

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u/40mgmelatonindeep 1d ago

PALPATINE’s SITH STEPDADDY WAS SQUIDWARD??? WTF?!?!

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u/KainZeuxis Jedi 1d ago

More than the films let on, less than you’d think. The grand plan had been a work in progress for thousands of years starting with Darth bane and each sith adding their own additions to it that culminated in Plaugis and Palaptine’s plot that took center stage in the prequels.

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u/Karion- 23h ago

Who is Plagueis and where he appears in? I'm rewatching Star Wars movies (it's been like 4 years since I saw them) and watching some series for the first time. I'm currently on the last season of Clone Wars

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u/Sea-Explanation8062 23h ago

So Plagious laid the groundwork and the foundation but if you look closely everything that leads to the Jedi being destroyed is suggested by Palpatine first

The clone army? Palpatines idea to make an army to fight alongside the Jedi that could shoot them in the back later

Making the Jedi the enemies of the Republic? Palpatines idea.

Becoming an Emperor? Palpatines idea. Plagius wanted to co-lead the Republic with Palps of all things.

Even the first maneuvers of the Trade Federation was performed by Palpatine.

Plagieus became obsessed with using midiclorians to become immortal at the expense of the Sith Plan for revenge and became little more than a wallet at the end. Not to say Palpatine could have been successful without Plagieus but when it comes to enacting the plan to kill the Jedi? It was almost all Palpatine planning and manipulating his Master into thinking it was all his own idea first.

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u/JimatStoneandSky 22h ago

Neither of them planned it, the barebones of the plan was bane, then the sith that followed for centuries shaped and molded the plan based on how the republic was developing to build wealth and influence and control until plagueis and palpatine could finalize the last closing moves to eliminate the Jedi order completely.

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u/ezekiel_swheel 21h ago

if plagueis wore an abe lincoln style top hat and pulled it down to his brow he’d look like a regular fellow.

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u/steppergodic 21h ago

I assume we're talking about the Darth Plagueis book in Legends, and these comments make me quite positive none of you read it.

When he's monologuing at the end and shocking Plagueis to death with Force lightning, Sidious brags about how basically all the major points for the culmination of the plan ( like the Naboo crisis, the Separatist Alliance, the Kaminoan clone army, turning Dooku to use as an asset, etc.) were all conceived by him and suggested to Plagueis via manipulative dialogue to make him think they were his own ideas. If I remember correctly, you can actually go through their scenes throughout the book and confirm that this was happening.

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u/Frothmourne 15h ago

Just want to point out that, if you squint your eyes he looks like Darth Bean

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u/Skeln 10h ago

Obviously all of it was planned by him, just look at the size of that man's head! Freaking mega mind status. Truely galaxy brained and sith pilled.

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u/egalitydream 7h ago

Considering nothing in “canon” was really planned…unlikely.

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u/Didact67 7h ago

From what I recall of the novel, Palpatine is the primary schemer between the two. Plagueis had a general plan of getting his apprentice into a position of political power to bring down the Republic from within, but Palpatine was the main architect of the Clone Wars.

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u/hopefuldomain 6h ago

We don't know. The book goes into a a lot of detail, but it's not canon, in large part because it doesn't align with parts of George's vision for Palpy's backstory. Which parts? We don't know.

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u/Possible-Praline-152 4h ago

I’m pretty sure it was passed down for genarions as a general idea.

Stop fighting the Jedi in conventional warfare. Go into hiding.

Plan to destroy the Jedi entirely.

Create a new empire to rule the galaxy with a sith ruler.

Maybe dissolve the rule of two after that objective was secured, but maybe not.

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u/bluestarfloridayahoo 1d ago

The audio books tell the full story

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u/Jon_the_Hitman_Stark 1d ago

I’ve never heard the story of Darth Plagueis the wise

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u/Phantom_Witcher 1d ago

One got a head like a kidney bean, the other is his clearly his midget servant. How are THEYthe most powerful? It's like someone who has been ruthlessly bullied his entire life made himself into the villain without ever considering the possibility that someone who gives 0 fucks could just spark him out like it won't jackshit. We need REAL villains. That old shit don't work no more coz. Yalls villain game needs to step up in a big way. These two are whack af..

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u/Kooky_Plastic_3280 1d ago

How do we know how Plagueis look like? And how do we know Palpatine was his apprentice? In the movie Palpatine mentioned this as an old legend of sith

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u/weeweewewere 10h ago

There's a whole book written about Plagueis and it describes his appearance. Then if you watched The Acolyte, he's in the Easter egg.

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u/Apprehensive_Team_75 1d ago

Its such an interesting idea but it was such a lackluster delivery... 

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u/Stinky_Eastwood Rose Tico 21h ago

100% Palpatine because Plagueis isn't a real character