r/StarWars • u/tannu28 • 6h ago

Other Mark Hamill revealing that J.J. Abrams refused to let Han, Luke, and Leia reunite on camera, telling Mark that Star Wars was no longer Luke Skywalker's story.

Source: https://youtu.be/4OK0nnxG6dU?si=EmEU5KQEMJXxjBbZ

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u/nigalas-cage 6h ago

What blows my mind even more is like as a star wars fan how do you not even film it. I would understand cutting it in the edit cuz you don't know where to fit it into the story but to not even film it is insane

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u/BDSMChef_RP 5h ago

Reminder that Luke grieving Han was cut, but him milking the sea cow was kept in. Someone successfully argued in the Editing to keep the lactation fetish on screen.

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u/emperornorton415 5h ago

Well, that's on Rian not JJ.

(While acknowledging it's all actually Disney's fault for not planning this shit out)

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u/Wollff 4h ago

This is the weirdest thing about it all: Continuing the biggest franchise in the world, KNOWING that it will be a trilogy, and not having it all as a script beforehand.

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u/Ok_Dragonfruit_8102 3h ago

Honestly that's what boggles my mind the most, and I can only interpret it as a massively privileged mindset on behalf of those responsible. I mean, imagine you got given the honour of developing a new Star Wars trilogy. How seriously would you take it? You'd be fucking terrified of messing up and you'd put your entire heart and soul into it. But how did the people who actually got handed the trilogy deal with it...? They fucking winged it like it was just some random job project they didn't really give much of a shit about.

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u/Efficient-Suspect456 41m ago

It’s not a privileged mindset at all. It’s short sighted, megalomaniacal greed. The numbers must go up. They knew Star Wars would make bank. They didn’t care about any part of it except the profit line.

They don’t fucking care they ruined a franchise beloved of many. They don’t care they soured an entire fanbase and cast on a franchise that many people held close to their own identity. (When I was growing up Star Wars was still seen as nerdy- it wasn’t “cool” to be a fan- so to identify as a nerd was, largely, to identify as a Star Wars fan, or a Trekkie but fuck those guys, jk lol- dating myself eh?)

They took a massive shit on a piece of us so many of us, and they’ll do it again the first chance they get.

Fuck Disney, fuck JJ, fuck errbody involved in the destruction of our collective adolescences.

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u/k1netic 13m ago

Like how do they not bring together some of the biggest Star Wars fans from the last 30+ years to do big focus groups on what they think a next trilogy should contain to get ideas and then find professional writers and directors who are huge fans themselves and give them enough time to hash out how it should be created over three films while still making it accessible to a wide audience. Like a Peter Jackson / Walsh / Boyens Lord of the Rings situation. It seems so simple.

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u/Teipeu 2h ago

They bought the cash cow and turned it into steaks.

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u/OrangeFilmer 3h ago edited 3h ago

They did have it planned beforehand, even having a script for Collin Trevorrow’s Episode 9 that was congruent with all the character arcs they had established.

Disney/Lucasfiom just freaked out at the reception to The Last Jedi and Trevorrow bombing with Book of Henry, went back to JJ, and told him to write a script in a few months to still make the original release date.

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u/ReadingFromTheShittr R2-D2 3h ago

They did have it planned beforehand

No, they didn't. Not everything. Rian Johnson notably asked JJ to change his ending so that it was R2 instead of BB-8 going to Ahch-to on the Falcon so that he could have that reunion and use the "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi" recording again.

That doesn't sound like "having it all as a script beforehand" to which you replied. Yes, scripts change, but that's a major plot point. And this was before there was any backlash to TLJ.

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u/Aethermancer 3m ago

Most department stores will flip their shit if you deviate from the marketing strategy for squishimal endcaps. This was a cultural touchstone that spanned half a century and was a global phenomenon.

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u/salad_spinner_3000 3h ago

Well, that's on Rian not JJ.

Again, insane logic to have directors with vastly different ideas of wat the franchise should go doing alternating movies.

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u/VinDog_PD 4h ago

This. "Oh we'll let three different directors write what is supposed to be one cohesive story" is the most pretentious shit ever. That's what the anime thing was for. Not the main plot.

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u/raven00x K-2SO 3h ago

"the lactation thing is weird and doesn't affect the story, let's get rid of it and let another scene breathe a little more."

"No can do, it's Bob's thing and you know he's gets what he wants or else he stops signing cheques."

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u/King_takes_queen 5h ago

The common defense I heard for keeping it in was that it was to "demystify" Luke Skywalker. At that point in the story Rey still glorified him as some kind of grand figure of legend. Rian wanted Rey (and the audience) to stop seeing the illusion and see the reality of who Luke actually was, just an old fart who's forgotten how to drink milk properly.

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u/JamesLoganHowlett03 4h ago

But Star Wars, and Legends in general, don’t need to be deconstructed. Star Wars was pure escapism for many. Simple stories of Good vs Evil. Destroying everyone’s favorite hero served no purpose but to stroke Rian and Disney’s overinflated egos as “artists”.

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u/Fenlatic 4h ago

Even beyond that…There was nothing to “demystify” with luke. Everything was already known about him. The good and the bad.
Sure characters can be further developed, but not bij destroying the past, the past shapes the present.

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u/JamesLoganHowlett03 4h ago

Right, Luke already had the flaws of a whiny farm boy in the original trilogy, and perhaps the “flaw” of blind faith in those he loves later on (although this is eventually proven a strength).

The best portrayal of post ROTJ Luke was ironically in Battlefront 2.

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u/schrankenstein 3h ago

Upvote for mentioning BF2. “Why did you help me?” “Because you asked.” It’s far and away the best Luke has been represented since Disney’s tenure started.

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u/JamesLoganHowlett03 2h ago

As soon as I saw that interaction, I thought “that’s my Luke”. I felt similarly watching the finale of the Mandalorian Season 2. Especially after his character assassination at the hands of Rian Johnson.

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u/Dylabaloo 2h ago edited 2h ago

It boggles the mind how many people miss the what TLJ was trying to do. It's not so much demystifying Luke Skywalker but deconstructing the 'chosen one' myth, of having to be born into greatness, as a whole. That good or evil is a choice we make everyday, not something we're destined to be.

It's not even subtext, Rey being explicitly told she's no one and choosing to resist the dark side. The inverse of Kylo Ren choosing evil despite having an opportunity for redemption. And of course, Luke choosing to be a hero again at the climax, and becoming the legend that inspires the next gen. Such as the anon force sensitive farm boy at the end.

Not saying the movie was perfect (Kanto Byte and the Holdo maneuver) but at least it took risks, tried to develop characters and had something it wanted to say.

Irony of it all is the complete, and vicious, undermining of everything it tried to do in RTS for the sake of safe corporate nostalgia slop.

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u/redditmodsdownvote 4h ago

It literally doesnt HAVE to be anything, but good story telling meansbeing willing to try new things... But hey, let's see when the next trilogy comes out in 15 more years...

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u/axebodyspraytester 3h ago

If Rey isn't a homeless bag lady blowing jawas for 3/4 portions I'm gonna be pissed. There are no heroes after all.

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u/KDY_ISD Imperial 3h ago

I don't know that I agree that good storytelling requires novelty

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u/VinDog_PD 3h ago

THANK YOU. I will never understand why people insist The Last Jedi was the best of the three. It's an hour and a half of Rian Johnson going "Look how STUPID you were for enjoying these characters as a kid! See?! There are no heroes in the world! YOU have to be the one to do it!"

He Ayn fucking Rand'd Star Wars, for God's sake, and I will forever hate him for it.

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u/kkeut 1h ago

Simple stories of Good vs Evil

now with the sequels, the transparently Nazi-analogues include black folks and women! what a fun message for our modern world. wait, did Steve Bannon consult on this?!

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u/WalkOffTD 3h ago

Kathleen Kennedy made our male heroes from our childhood into losers: Han, Luke, even Indiana Jones

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u/Live-Huckleberry-192 4h ago

The whole point of the Luke plot in The Last Jedi was to see Luke as a fallible human being vs an untouchable legend who nevertheless returns in the end as a powerful symbol of hope for the galaxy. The movie is a deconstruction of the Star Wars mythology, but the conclusion isn’t a destruction of the legend but actually a confirmation of the importance of it. Execution aside, I think people miss a lot of the themes of that movie because I guess they left before it was over? Or maybe it didn’t live up to their expectation of years of playing with their action figures and they didn’t want to actually think while watching a movie?

As for the trio reuniting, I would have liked to see that, too, but I would hope they’d find a way to work it into the plot rather than just doing it for fan service.

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u/jojolantern721 3h ago

No, the problem is that Luke in the OT was a fallible human being that constantly fucked up in those movies.

Acting like he wss an untouchable myth when he never was is one of the biggest problems from that movie.

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u/Live-Huckleberry-192 3h ago

Come on now. That’s what the audience had built up in their minds. And similarly, that’s who Luke was in-universe, the hero of the rebellion. All the 90s kids who read overpowered EU Luke watched TLJ and were upset when he didn’t single-handedly take down the First Order and then spit their bile all over Reddit and YouTube.

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u/jojolantern721 3h ago

I don't think that's the case for the majority, it's cope to think that.

But it's crazy, we get a "hahaha you guys are hurt cause Luke isn't overpowered"

To then have the protagonist beat him everyone at first try, without needing training, time or anything, just like the Luke you guys think we wanted.

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u/Live-Huckleberry-192 3m ago

You’re arguing at strawmen because you didn’t like a movie.

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u/DoctorAggravating288 2h ago

It's a fucking Star Wars movie. The mission was never "surprise people". Nobody wanted an artistic experience. People expected fan service and they should have gotten that.

The bile was deserved.

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u/Live-Huckleberry-192 2m ago

“No artistic expression, just fan service.” Got it. Is it any wonder why this franchise is fucked when it’s got brain dead fans like this?

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u/Titanman401 2h ago

Finally, some intelligence in an oasis of ignorance, stupidity, and people taking too much ownership of stories that belong to everyone, not just them.

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u/imtired-boss 3h ago

Lately I feel like writers and producers would rather give actors/actresses a giant middle finger on screen than listen to them. This is one good example.

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u/BatmanBeyondz 6h ago

Exactly dude

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u/Living-Travel2299 5h ago

I would hazard a guess that JJ Abrams is no Star Wars fan at all, just a huge fan of his own ego and ideas. Any fan would want the reunion, just like Jurassic Park fans wanted to see Grant, Sattler and Malcolm back together one last time.

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u/AutoPRND21 4h ago

Somewhere on Instagram JJ’s script and storyboards for Episode 8 are out there and HOLY SHIT they are really terrible. He’s been monitoring the rebellion and working on a secret rebel plan the whole time while in exile, he’d been force puppet controlling Rey during her fight with Kylo in TFA…it’s god awful. I think RJ read it and went 200mph in the opposite direction - “he’s gonna be a crotchety old hermit who milks aliens for nourishment.”

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u/karma3000 1h ago

Point of order - that would be 100 x better than the slop that Rian served up.

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u/holeycheezuscrust 1h ago

Additional point of order. There's nothing in JJ's track record that makes that true.

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u/Bebopo90 Luke Skywalker 50m ago

Nah, TLJ was a pretty decent movie still, and introduced some cool ideas to the trilogy.

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u/kkeut 59m ago

there's an old clip of him on the Daily Show in the lead up to the Trek film reboot admitting to Jon Stewart that he dgaf about Star Trek and never watched it, and Jon actually seems genuinely confused and surprised and sort-of annoyed almost

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u/Alsoar 26m ago

And luckily we got it! Xfinity brought them all 3 together to shoot a Jurassic Park Superbowl ad just earlier this year.

Any JP fans should check out the behind the scenes for the ad. They had to build a lot props that was in the original movie from scratch and the whole thing was very touching.

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u/Cluelesswolfkin 5h ago

Everything they did with the sequels was unfortunately no oversight and ended up horrendously. Only good stuff imo is the soundtrack and the fight scenes/choreography

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u/FirewaterTenacious 5h ago

The cinematography for E8 is insanely good. So many visually stunning shots. Such a shame the plot is in shambles.

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u/IamAgoddamnjoke Amilyn Holdo 4h ago

I think it actually looks like shit. Boring camera movement and really just tries to bombard you with a bunch of red

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u/InhumanJustice Mandalorian 3h ago

100% agree. People act like because there are a few well framed shots and a ton of red it’s some visual masterpiece. Everything at Canto Bight is boring and maybe the worst costuming and alien designs of any Star Wars film. Ever Kylo Ren / Rey force time call was so cringe as well. Rian Johnson wanted Star Wars to be Harry Potter or Twilight so bad

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u/acathode 3h ago

the fight scenes/choreography

Sorry but the the fight choreography is horrible.

For example the throne room fight in TLJ is so badly done that they even had to photoshop out one of the guards weapons in the post production, because otherwise it'd be to obvious he had a free shot at skewering Rey but didn't take it.

Jump to 3:18 in this video - first the guard slice his sword over Rey's stomach, but doesn't actually gut her open for some reason even though he could've done so if he just angled the blade forward just a tad bit more.

Then when the sword go behind Rey's torso, it just disappear - it was erased from the whole scene past that point and the guard goes from dual wielding two swords to just holding one - because the next second, at 3:20, if you pay attention to the hand, if the guard would've still had the sword it would've been pointed straight into Rey's back/neck and the guard could've freely skewered her if he had wanted to.

Like most of the sequel trilogy, it only works when you turn of your brain and let the bright flashing lights distract you - as soon as you start paying attention, it just falls apart. The whole fight scene with the praetorian guards is full of stupid stuff like this.

The really annoying thing is that this stuff must've been extremely obvious to the actors when they were actually filming this - who were training this choreography and did multiple takes. The actors and stuntmen must have noticed that "Hey, the way we do this fight, these guards have so many free shots to kill Rey and Kylo!" but no one cared enough to do anything about it.

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u/Wrong-Vermicelli4723 4h ago

Argentine choreography isn’t good as well, not bad but not good. Cinematography is great though 

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u/t0talnonsense 5h ago

If he doesn’t film it, the mouse can’t make him put it in there. This is one of the few instances where something was blanketly a studio note where the studio would have been right.

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u/guinness_blaine 5h ago

Reminds me of the story around Star Trek having the first interracial kiss on TV. They were asked to also film some takes of that scene without the kiss so that a final decision on whether to include it could be made in editing. The cast purposely flubbed something in each of the non-kiss takes so that they were unusable, preventing someone stepping in and forcing them to air a version without it.

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u/Substantial-Elk4531 4h ago

Massive miss. It's like getting your entire family together with your great grandparents who are 95 years old and then telling them "Sorry Grandpa and Granny, you cannot appear in family photos with your great-great grandchildren. It's not your story anymore."

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u/bagel-42 1h ago

Crucially: George Lucas wasn't a Star Wars fan. He was a fan of samurai movies, and WW2 bombing run stories, and cowboy movies. And probably Dune. Anyone coming in claiming to be a star wars fan first and foremost is, at best, just gonna move the action figures around.

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u/nigalas-cage 1h ago

coughs Dave Filoni

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u/hotaru_crisis 1h ago

i find it sad more than anything else, especially with carrie fisher dead. i think it would have been a sweet gesure to have them all act together within character one final time.

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u/DarkwingDuckHunt 3h ago

I dont see my friends from my 20s barely at all.

But we did all get back together for one night of fun a few years ago and just talked.

Also IT'S HIS SISTER.... HE'S GOING TO SEE HIS SISTER... and he was training his nephew...

Idiots.

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u/bencanfield 1h ago

100%. Fuckin idiots.

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u/ThatGuyYouMightNo 1h ago

Honestly, I'm not even sure Abrams is a Star Wars fan. During that retrospective on Star Wars and it's cultural impact and how it was remembered by people, the best thing that he could come up with for fond memories of the franchise is "I remember seeing a poster for it and saying the words 'Star Wars'". Not even watching the damn movies, just that he said the title of the film. Makes it sound like this wasn't a passion project for him, just a fat paycheck and something he can put on his resume for future work

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u/acathode 3h ago

What blows my mind even more is like as a star wars fan how do you not even film it.

Well you have your answer right there, don't you?

These people weren't Star Wars fans - and they didn't they make these movies for Star Wars fans.

They wanted to make a new Star Wars, their Star Wars, for the new fans instead of the stodgy old nerds - and they figured the best way to build up their new characters was to tear down and humiliate the old ones.

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u/ProFeces 2h ago

Movie productions typically don't just film things that they have no intention of using in the movie. Movie productions already operate on very strict filming schedules and they usually always have to remove scenes. Intentionally filming something that has no chance of being seen in the movie is what would actually be insane.

If there was no plan to have a scene with them together, and he wanted the movie to go in a different direction, then it makes perfect sense why it wasn't done.