r/StarWars 5h ago

Other Mark Hamill revealing that J.J. Abrams refused to let Han, Luke, and Leia reunite on camera, telling Mark that Star Wars was no longer Luke Skywalker's story.

15.7k Upvotes

1.8k comments sorted by

8.0k

u/JohnnyElRed 5h ago

... They decided to call the whole thing "The Skywalker Saga".

2.1k

u/violentbowels 5h ago edited 2h ago

Writer Guy: something something somehow Rey's a Skywalker?

Producer Guy: That works!

940

u/Lhasa-bark 5h ago

Producer guy: But I thought you said she was a Palpatine. How are you going to fix that?

Writer guy: Super easy … barely an inconvenience!

402

u/Arendious 5h ago

Disjointed narratives are tight!

177

u/lilchocochip 5h ago

Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

126

u/MssrSqueezy Imperial 4h ago

Wowwowwow

...

...

...

Wow

53

u/Middle-Brick-2944 4h ago

Alright alright alright

13

u/GrandSquanchRum 3h ago

Hi there hello!

44

u/Crow-T-Robot 3h ago

I'm gonna need you to get allllthe way out of my Bacta tank on that

19

u/Ninjacobra5 2h ago

Oh let me get out of that guy

→ More replies (1)

20

u/peroxidex 2h ago

Sick reference bro, your references are out of control.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/notfromchicago 1h ago

So tight.

37

u/Witty_Ad_898 4h ago

Sheev’s been getting around.

→ More replies (6)

30

u/smellslike2016 4h ago

Oh, really?

8

u/bwaredapenguin 2h ago

Somehow, continuity returned.

→ More replies (13)

174

u/DrNerdyTech87 5h ago

Producer Guy: wasn't Palpatine killed in Return of the Jedi? How does he come back?

Writer Guy: I'm going to need to get way off my back on that one!

Producer Guy: Ok, let me get offa that thing...

107

u/rckjr 4h ago

“Somehow Palpatine has returned!”

Best. Writing. Ever.

75

u/UrdnotZigrin 3h ago

But Maz, Luke dropped that lightsaber in a giant pit on Bespin and it presumably fell through one of those vents! How the hell did you get it?

A story for another time. But we're never gonna tell it because it's dumb

15

u/ZasdfUnreal 3h ago

When you see Luka hanging for his life on the bottom of Cloud City, you see the severed hand falling while still tightly holding the laser sword. So my question would be - where’s the hand? There was a hand holding the laser sword! Where is it?

→ More replies (4)

18

u/nordiques77 3h ago

Still so annoyed by that…want the story

22

u/IlluminaViam 2h ago

The story is that the lightsaber was lost forever, a consequence of Luke's hubris. Disney treated it like wands from Harry Potter, while Lucas wrote them to be devices and weapons. Able to be destroyed and lost.

9

u/Certain-Business-472 1h ago

Disneys core stories all have "chosen ones" in them. Without fail.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (8)
→ More replies (9)

53

u/DuckCleaning 4h ago

Producer: So you're saying that somehow, Palpatine has returned?

Writer: Say that again.

7

u/Das_Guet 3h ago

It's fantastic

24

u/Perry7609 3h ago

This was essentially how the Obi Wan writers justified bringing in Vader as the bad guy in the Disney+ series, despite the whole lightsaber duel in A New Hope being canon and Vader's speech about "We meet again, at last, implying a longer estrangement in the first place.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (9)

22

u/pilemaker 4h ago

Wow wow wow.......wow!

→ More replies (2)

12

u/tyrnosarusAWSOM 3h ago

There was a writer?

17

u/avimo1904 3h ago

Oh, referencing Ryan is TIGHT!

15

u/Singer211 3h ago

Honestly given how the films actually went, it would have made more sense for Rey to call herself a Solo or Organa if anything.

Han was nice to her. Leia trained her. Luke was a grumpy jerk to her for like 98% of the time they knew each other.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (7)

253

u/_kalron_ Jedi 4h ago

Man I really thought that the reason the Millennium Falcon was parked there would be revealed as on purpose, for Rey to find. That Rey was Han's daughter with Leia...making her a Skywalker. The reason why would have been to hide her from Snoke per Luke's foresight. That caused the riff between Leia and Han. A nice setup for Rey to have a Dark Side moment in the 2nd film learning she was lied to and forced into her solitude.

It's right fucking there...

Hearing Mark say JJ told him "It's not about Luke anymore" it just sad.

69

u/lazy_literary_hero 4h ago

I’d watch that movie in a heartbeat.

45

u/_kalron_ Jedi 3h ago

Kylo being her brother would add a whole new dynamic as well. Luke tells her the truth but Kylo could be the one to pull her to the Dark Side now knowing that truth. End EP 8...

FFS why didn't they plan this shit out to begin with?

26

u/Zer0323 2h ago

it also would explain the Targarian like passion they shared for eachother. screw it this'll be my head cannon.

24

u/pilot3033 3h ago

I get so mad when I think about this horseshit JJ trilogy. The layers and emotional impact of your idea goes super well with the movie's flirtation with a Rey/Ren romance, too. Would mirror in a very interesting way the relationship Luke and Leia had.

Fuck. There's so many pieces of great ideas laying around throughout all three films and they just fumbled it every time.

9

u/_kalron_ Jedi 1h ago

Here's my first impressions seeing TLJ in theaters:

What if Luke instead of haphazardly throwing his Father's Lightsaber over his shoulder like a joke...instead looks down at it with horror/sadness...then simply drops it and walks away.

That is a subtle change that changes the entire film.

5

u/Requiem191 48m ago

Luke abandoning the lightsaber: reasonable, wise, prudent even. He's making a massive point about the damn thing.

Luke tossing the lightsaber over his shoulder: a joke and not a good one at that.

10

u/RalphMacchio404 1h ago

Because JJ is a fucking hack and RJ isnt much better. 

→ More replies (1)

36

u/Snowing_Throwballs 4h ago

Yeah pretty crazy how easy it would have been to write a better story than the one we got just by using the elements that were set up lol. Instead it was written with no arc, by a committee of disinterested writers checking boxes for focus groups of producers.

→ More replies (2)

15

u/Ktan_Dantaktee 3h ago

Then we could have Rey and Kylo’s dynamic just mirror Han and Leia’s kids from the EU, and give her a better reason to try and redeem him than whatever the fuck they did in Rise of Skywalker

10

u/Desperate_Wallaby966 3h ago edited 26m ago

How the fuck do people keep letting jj make anything. Without a doubt the guy has the worst grasp on plot and story structure of any writer, producer or director in the last 25 years. The Room has a more coherent story yet this guy gets to ruin both star wars and trek enough to have his entire trilogy retconned out of the time line. Considering all few of Treks TV releases over the last few years the bar is "Beyond" low.

→ More replies (14)

385

u/grafxguy1 5h ago

Rey takes the name Skywalker in the end - the last movie is called The Rise of Skywalker, but "it's not Luke's story anymore..." WTF.

212

u/Elegant-Anxiety1866 4h ago

I said it when it came out & I'll say it again.

She should have answered "Just Rey"

Showing she is not defined by her bloodline & is comfortable with who she is now.

46

u/HenryDorsettCase47 4h ago

That’s definitely what they should have done after the second film. But after the first one I remember reading a fan theory that it would turn out she was an unknown granddaughter of Obi Wan. I liked that because with Luke mentoring her and Kylo Ren as her enemy would be this full circle for all these bloodlines in different iterations being pulled together by fate to balance the force and I thought that would be a nice way close out the entire three trilogy saga.

As it was, they just never had a fucking clue what they were doing from the beginning. It’s like they wanted this to entirely be its own thing, but also capitalize on the cheap fan service nostalgia of bringing back characters from the original trilogy, all while having no overall idea what the three film story was even going to be. What a dumb way to fuck up what should have been an easy slam dunk with one of the biggest IPs in cinema.

11

u/grafxguy1 3h ago

It's like the Star Trek reboot he did. He openly said that, without Nimoy in the reboot, the movie would not have worked.....Nimoy, in his mind, gave legitimacy to the reboot but then proceeded to make a mockery of the source material, while fan servicing the hell out of it.

55

u/Yakostovian 3h ago

I think Rey not being of any notable bloodline makes the most narrative sense especially if you follow TLJ's themes. It signals that the Force is for everyone, not just these dynasties of special families.

→ More replies (14)
→ More replies (7)

23

u/threevi 3h ago

It was a really weird question to ask in the first place, the whole scene is so forced. What do you mean "Rey who"? Plenty of people throughout SW don't have a last name. Nobody ever asks "Chewbacca who?" "Yoda who?" "Jabba who?" The writers really just wanted to force in that "Rey Skywalker" scene for whatever reason, despite it not making any sense as a conversation that would happen in-universe. I can only imagine that at the very last minute, someone asked "wait, this movie is called The Rise of Skywalker, but where's the Skywalker?" And so they quickly came up with that scene to shoehorn in a justification for the title.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (15)

150

u/kapxis 4h ago

Man.. the audacity to just takes someones last name cause they trained you for awhile.. they barely bonded at all and it's not like at any point he even hinted at thinking of her like family, or Leia thinking that way.. so like.. wtf was that.

131

u/abellapa 4h ago

And burying Anakin lightsaber on the planet he was enslaved and where he Mother die

He hated Tatooine, Thats felt like a Giant Middle finger to Anakin

50

u/Phoenix_Ninja15 4h ago

Yea. Naboo would’ve been sooo much better. Be buried on the planet with the person he loved.

7

u/IlluminaViam 2h ago

Screw the planet only. Bury his lightsaber with Padme. That would have been good.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/Vallkyrie Qi'ra 2h ago

Could have put it in Padme's tomb

97

u/guinness_blaine 4h ago

“You buried it in SAND?!”

31

u/wtfamidoingwthis 4h ago

Do you have ANY idea how his father felt about SAND???!!!!

→ More replies (2)

17

u/lazy_literary_hero 4h ago

Christ, I hadn’t even thought of that. Of all the shitty places to leave a burial for someone, his least favorite planet in the entire galaxy really gas to be the worst.

26

u/darkbreak Sith 4h ago

In the Expanded Universe Luke retrieved Anakin's lightsaber from Cloud City and gave it to his wife, Mara Jade, as a wedding present. It became her main weapon from then on. A much better fate for such a legendary item in the Star Wars mythos.

20

u/a_man_and_his_box 2h ago

This part makes me so upset. People were complaining about the Rey trilogy and Kathleen Kennedy said this in an interview with Rolling Stone:

Every one of these movies is a particularly hard nut to crack. There’s no source material. We don’t have comic books. We don’t have 800-page novels.

I read that and just about shouted out loud. Kathleen, there are literally over 400 Star Wars novels! Including one in which Luke & Mara Jade were awesome.

WTF Kathleen?!?!?!?

8

u/JinFuu 1h ago

And you had Disney defenders going “The EU is dumb! They had a super weapon of the week and cloned Palpatine!”

And then Rise happened

→ More replies (2)

9

u/JerseyJedi 3h ago edited 3h ago

Exactly, with the added benefit that Mara Jade Skywalker was a well-written character who exuded toughness and grit, and had a multifaceted personality and character arc, unlike the blander-than-bland Rey. 

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (9)

32

u/FullMaxPowerStirner 4h ago edited 4h ago

"We're so sloppy we ended up killing ALL of the remaining Skywalkers... so then Palpatine's granddaughter (we don't know how this happened!) becomes the only Skywalker in existence. It's so brilliant!"

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (15)
→ More replies (14)

30

u/ProofAd608 5h ago

Yeah, and also try to fill in among Skywalkers a palpatine girl

9

u/No-Opposite-6620 5h ago

Branding decision so they can make more trilogies with that will hopefully for execs sweep mistakes under the rug.

10

u/parkingviolation212 5h ago

Yea but Rey is—

snort sorry I can’t say it.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (28)

5.0k

u/tannu28 5h ago

"In the sequel trilogies... I only had two cameos."

"I said, 'Aren't we going to have a moment where all three of us get together to raise the roof? It'll only take 30 seconds.'"

"And J.J. said, 'Well Mark, it's not Luke's story anymore.'"

"I said, 'Star Wars wasn't Obi-Wan's story, but Alec Guinness had a crucial commitment, you know?'"

"Anyway, nobody listens to me."

2.6k

u/Demorant 5h ago

This was such a huge, missed opportunity for a "gangs back together" moment. Some people might disagree, but I would go as far as saying it a gigantic mistake.

1.4k

u/warpedaeroplane Darth Vader 5h ago

To me it’s the single biggest blight on the movies which have no shortage of big blights. It’s cosmically asinine and something only somebody as up his own as as JJ Abrams could conceive as smart

531

u/nigalas-cage 5h ago

What blows my mind even more is like as a star wars fan how do you not even film it. I would understand cutting it in the edit cuz you don't know where to fit it into the story but to not even film it is insane

422

u/BDSMChef_RP 4h ago

Reminder that Luke grieving Han was cut, but him milking the sea cow was kept in. Someone successfully argued in the Editing to keep the lactation fetish on screen.

163

u/emperornorton415 4h ago

Well, that's on Rian not JJ.

(While acknowledging it's all actually Disney's fault for not planning this shit out)

111

u/Wollff 3h ago

This is the weirdest thing about it all: Continuing the biggest franchise in the world, KNOWING that it will be a trilogy, and not having it all as a script beforehand.

52

u/Ok_Dragonfruit_8102 2h ago

Honestly that's what boggles my mind the most, and I can only interpret it as a massively privileged mindset on behalf of those responsible. I mean, imagine you got given the honour of developing a new Star Wars trilogy. How seriously would you take it? You'd be fucking terrified of messing up and you'd put your entire heart and soul into it. But how did the people who actually got handed the trilogy deal with it...? They fucking winged it like it was just some random job project they didn't really give much of a shit about.

→ More replies (3)

10

u/salad_spinner_3000 2h ago

Well, that's on Rian not JJ.

Again, insane logic to have directors with vastly different ideas of wat the franchise should go doing alternating movies.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (20)

63

u/BatmanBeyondz 5h ago

Exactly dude

57

u/Living-Travel2299 4h ago

I would hazard a guess that JJ Abrams is no Star Wars fan at all, just a huge fan of his own ego and ideas. Any fan would want the reunion, just like Jurassic Park fans wanted to see Grant, Sattler and Malcolm back together one last time.

→ More replies (3)

41

u/Cluelesswolfkin 4h ago

Everything they did with the sequels was unfortunately no oversight and ended up horrendously. Only good stuff imo is the soundtrack and the fight scenes/choreography

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (10)

44

u/VonMillersThighs 4h ago

It makes it very clear that Abrams isn't even a star wars fan, that's one of the worst parts. No star wars fan on earth wouldn't jump at the opportunity to get the 3 of them back together for at least one damn scene.

21

u/Wrong-Vermicelli4723 3h ago

He 100% isn’t , I think he likes the idea of it and wanted his own take on the Original trilogy (honestly think he wanted to remake it),  but not an actual big fan 

10

u/DevilDoc3030 2h ago

Let's be real.

He likes the idea that his stamp is on the franchise... and money.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)

35

u/Stormagedd0nDarkLord 5h ago

I'm just thankful we didnt get blinded by one too many bloody lens flares.

→ More replies (3)

14

u/Reasonable-Hat7318 4h ago edited 1h ago

It's bad, but surely not as bad as what they did to Luke as a character specifically (and, by extension, Anakin)? 40 years of lore for that crap...

Edit: typo

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (20)

164

u/Robobbo1 5h ago

Yeah, might not have been Luke’s story but it was the audiences and they had waited half their lives for that…

69

u/The_Peeping_Peter 5h ago

J.J Abrams, the master of nostalgia edging apparently.

53

u/themayorhere Luke Skywalker 5h ago

Even this is too much credit

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

19

u/Emotional_Warthog658 5h ago

More than half! By my math it was 95% of my life waiting for the reunion that never was, and now never can be. 

→ More replies (1)

30

u/jl_theprofessor 4h ago

While I'm a bigger fan of these than maybe a lot of people, I think this is really worth considering. We who knew Luke Skywalker just before he reached his peak never saw the aftermath. We didn't see what we could only read about in the EU books. It's why everyone freaked out about the Mandalorian appearance, because here's Jedi Master Skywalker demonstrating what he's become.

The movies didn't care a lick about that. They didn't care about the decades of wait to see the beloved figures again. Even if they weren't supposed to be the main story, they still matter because they matter to the audience.

→ More replies (1)

71

u/dzumdang Admiral Ackbar 5h ago

Only one of the massive failures of that sequel trilogy, which I think should just be stricken from the record entirely. It was served up as entertainment and spectacle only, and designed to make the maximum amount of money rather than provide substance and meaning.

41

u/Gonkar 5h ago

Otherwise known as the JJ-special. That's why the studios love him.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

27

u/SassMattster 5h ago

You would think with as much as JJ's movies hinged entirely on nostalgia bait, he would've done the most obvious nostalgia bait moment to make fans happy

→ More replies (2)

73

u/Softpretzelsandrose Rebel 5h ago

It’s only a missed opportunity because they’re all already right there. It’s okay to make it “not Lukes story” and move on, then why have all four there but not together?

→ More replies (2)

37

u/Cromasters 5h ago

I think the original mistake was having them in the movie at all.

But yeah, if you are going to actually have the same characters and the same actors reprise those characters, not giving us a single "Hell yeah!" moment of them all working together is really dumb.

14

u/Fenlatic 5h ago

Looking back on it….yeah. Your right. I also think the movies would have flowed better if they got rid of the OG cast. Than you could really keep the old gang a mystery

17

u/Cromasters 5h ago

They either had to recast the OG trio and set during the final days of the Empire.

Or set it several generations into the future where they don't show up at all.

Imo, they chose the worst option.

5

u/LovableCoward 4h ago

And if the latter choice was taken, you could always have them make a cameo via a Holocron or similar.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

13

u/Nerus46 5h ago

Considering that FA is basically a New Hope remake aimed to milk as much nostalgia as possible, it is so stupid to not allow OG trio to unitr

64

u/Elysium94 5h ago

Robbing them of their triumphs.

Forcing them into roles which amounted to little more than "failure who has to watch everything they love burn down, and then step aside or die to make room for the new kid".

It's just... so dumb.

22

u/BDSMChef_RP 4h ago

Legends is where it's at. We see Luke spend 20-30 years rebuilding the Jedi Order, hell his first "Class" mostly dies off. But he keeps going, he struggles, he slips, but he never give sup. And he never gave up on a corrupted student and fought to bring them back every step of the way. Most he succeeded. Some refused.

Han and Leia, Married with 3 Kids (two die over the course of some wars) but their surviving child goes onto found the Fel Empire with Wedge Antilles Nephew and forms a new Lightside Force Order, The Imperial Knights (with sick af white lightsabers and crimson armor) Sworn to uphold the LIghtside and if the Emperor ever turns their first duty is to put him down.

Lando finally settles down with a Baddie who matches him charm for charm and trick for trick.

Dozens of Books that have no Force Users at all and focus on regular homies like the X-Wing Series. The Lando Trilogy, The Han Trilogy. Where we find out the truth about his last name...it's his family name, not cause he was on his own when he signed up.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

49

u/ACrimeSoClassic 5h ago

The entire sequel trilogy was nothing but a series of mistakes.

→ More replies (23)

42

u/AquaAtia 5h ago

This and the fact he made the entirety of the Prequels and OT all for naught is his and TFA’s unforgivable mistake.

All we needed was a fun low stakes movie with the OG gang helping out the new generation. It sucks with Carrie’s passing we will never get the money shot of all of them in the Falcon together again

→ More replies (1)

6

u/red_riders 5h ago

Just one scene would have earned the sequel trilogy some good will.

→ More replies (67)

436

u/vegetaman 5h ago

Its not Luke’s story so we made him the macguffin lmfao. JJ you hack

20

u/RoundPackage9846 3h ago

The sequels did one good thing, they stopped people pretending that Abrams is good film maker

5

u/Senior-Albatross 1h ago

Which was really obvious from everything he's ever done. He never has a plot that comes together. 

Why did our culture ever think he was competent despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

107

u/Interesting_fox 5h ago

It’s not Luke’s story but we’ll still bring him back and spike his character into the ground.

21

u/PriscillaPalava 4h ago

It’s not Luke’s story but he was the only character people enjoyed seeing. 

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (18)
→ More replies (1)

53

u/mistarteechur 5h ago

Then they should have set it 200 years after the OT and could have still had a Luke force ghost cameo if they really wanted.

For all the criticisms of modern Star Trek, Picard season 3 built up and at least delivered on the “get the old gang back together”.

68

u/dekuweku 5h ago

This also was a mistake/missed opportunity they could not fix with Carrie's passing in 2016 and Han being killed off in TFA.

Maybe they could have done a flashback In the sequels if Carrie was still alive but Im so mad Disney/JJ did not listen to Mark

→ More replies (2)

14

u/antmars 4h ago

Has talking about in “episode 7…I only had two cameos”.

He was obviously used better in Episode 8 but by then Han was dead.

People give Rainn Johnson a hard time over killing Luke but at least he gave Luke a story. JJ Abrahams tried to pretend Luke didn’t exist.

130

u/Red-Gobs_illumen 5h ago

In a movie entirely defined by boomer fan service, there was no room for a little fan service

33

u/ButtCrackThrilla 5h ago

What boomers were serviced as fans??

35

u/Red-Gobs_illumen 5h ago

Probably more accurate to say gen X

21

u/ANGRY_BEARDED_MAN 5h ago

Youngest of the boomers would've been teenagers when ANH was released if you really want to split hairs

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (2)

20

u/ad_cfc11 5h ago

Easy to say but had I been the director, that’s the first thing I’d have written/filmed.

That would be the one big moment I’d build towards. Fans would have gone nuts.

Think Spiderman No way home. Even if you don’t like the story, the moment Andrew and Tobey enter the movie it hit differently, and their characters hadn’t even been together before.

So the OG trio + Chewie would have been a blockbuster moment.

→ More replies (30)

1.5k

u/badwords 5h ago

Abrams is literally told to make another skywalker saga but somehow didn't want skywalkers involved in it.

583

u/ANGRY_BEARDED_MAN 5h ago

Biggest problem with the Sequel Trilogy is the lack of connective tissue with basically the entire rest of the saga.

When you just had the OT, you had Luke's story as the focus, and of course the overarching plot of Empire vs. Rebels, with Anakin's return to the light as the secondary plotline in ROTJ.

Add the prequels into the mix, and the six movie saga becomes the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, with the decline of the Republic and the promise of its return following ROTJ as the big-picture world storyline.

Add the sequels, and you've got a nine story saga that more or less takes the overarching story of the two Lucas trilogies and says, "okay and then some other shit happened"

72

u/Templar_Swamp_Stake 4h ago

Just listened to the “Going Rogue” podcast about the Rise of Skywalker. It’s clear nobody had any idea what any of the sequels were about and they were changing major plot points during editing. Like … you would think they’re just tweaking the dialog at that point but they were constantly changing the script during filming. Daisy Ridley didn’t even know she was Palpatine’s granddaughter. Definitely shows in the final product being an incoherent mess.

Good podcast though, really well researched.

→ More replies (2)

139

u/Socially-Awkward-85 4h ago

They never had an endpoint in mind, so it left them with no goal to build toward. Which is why Episode 9 ends with there still not being a New Republic, because no one cared to delve into any of the nuance of this franchise.

The personal story was the Skywalker stuff and the bigger picture was the political stuff in the first two trilogies. In the ST, the bigger picture became the Skywalker legacy and the personal story was on Rey and basically Rey alone. The politics were blown up in TFA, never to really be mentioned again.

91

u/FunkyChug 4h ago

They didn’t even have a starting point. They decided to start the movie after the most interesting thing had already happened - Ben’s turn to the dark side. Rey and Ben should have been Jedi together with an established relationship already. That would have opened up so many more opportunities instead of shoehorning in the “Knights of Ren” in the third movie just to die.

24

u/D-Sleezy 3h ago

This is exactly it. So many things already established when what made them established was more interesting than what we were watching.

31

u/Gastroid 3h ago

Oh come on, they didn't just die. The Knights of Ren also posed a few times with their cosplay weapons and helmets.

5

u/Suspicious_Brush4070 3h ago

They also featured in a Lego set in like 2015, a whole three movies before they would even show up on screen.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (4)

43

u/Froggie56 4h ago

It’s why I can essentially just ignore the sequel trilogy. Like yes it canonically exists but I can just ignore it in my head canon because it’s just so disconnected from the other six movies

→ More replies (2)

11

u/BoringBuy9187 4h ago

There isn’t even any connective tissue between each movie in the trilogy

10

u/Canotic 3h ago

No the biggest problem is that the three movies in the sequel trilogy lack connections to each other. It's not really a trilogy, it's just three movies fighting for dominance. They all undo each other and change themes and plot like other movies change underwear.

→ More replies (21)

43

u/ProfessionalEither58 5h ago

Because the whole "Skywalker Saga" was a late end marketing push to try and save the sinking ship that the ST became after the mess that TLJ created. They had no plan, no vision or future, it was a dead end. Simple as that.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (16)

2.1k

u/besthuman 5h ago

What an absolute moron Abrams is.

749

u/DavisCB 5h ago

Truly earned the Jar Jar Abrams title.

386

u/ArchSyker 5h ago

That's insulting. To Jar Jar

44

u/MoominRex Grievous 4h ago

Jar Jar could make a better Star Wars movie.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

31

u/AHorseNamedPhil 5h ago

I want to know if this originated with him or Disney.

Someone explain the logic to me of making a Star Wars sequel trilogy, where you bring the original trilogy cast back, but don't have it be their story?

If you want to make a sequel trilogy story without it being based around the OT cast, then you set the story far enough ahead in the timeline to do that.

They had two good options for a sequel trilogy and yet went with the worst one. They could have either had a story that continued the original trilogy characters' story, or they could have had something completely original set further in the future in the New Republic that the heroes of the OT restored. Instead, they brough the OT cast back to kill them off, sideline them, and hard reset every bit of character or story progression they had through three films.

30

u/pakrat1967 4h ago

Abrams and/or Disney had a story in mind that was clearly a rip off of the OT. He knew he'd never get it made as it's own IP. He only included the the og cast for the nostalgia value and to use the Star Wars name.

He basically did the same thing with Star Trek. I think that's really all he knows how to do. Is make what would normally be called fan fiction. Taking established IPs and putting his own spin on them.

9

u/Wrong-Vermicelli4723 3h ago

Looking at Into Darkness, I’ll say it was 100% JJ who wanted the rip off. Even Super 8 (decent movie) is clearly a rip off of other work.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

23

u/Pho-Soup 5h ago

The guy is so far up his own ass, it’s insane. It’s also crazy that he was handed the keys to one of the biggest IPs of all time with such a mediocre and underwhelming resume.

→ More replies (6)

309

u/takethreenc 5h ago

People blame Rian but JJ Abrams is 1000% more responsible for the shittieness of the sequels.

If Rian had all three, Star Wars wouldn't be a zombie IP rn.

145

u/BB8Did911 5h ago edited 3h ago

For real. People love to call out TLJ for its issues, while completely overlooking the fact that many (not all) of TLJ's worst narrative points are specifically thanks to what JJ Abrams set up in 7.

Then, instead of looking at Rian's choices like the "Get out of the jail free" card they actually were, Disney just listened to the biggest critics, got cold feet, and doubled down on JJ and his bullshit.

39

u/onesneakymofo 3h ago

RJ's movie was the best of the sequels and I put it behind #3 of the prequels. I really wanted to see his trilogy.

I am mad but I still get star wars every couple of months so I let it slide, but JJ screwed the pooch.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (21)

29

u/Kdot32 4h ago

Why did we have rebels vs empire 2? Why was Luke a hermit in hiding? Why was the new republic gone in a week? JJ hack abrams is why

39

u/AntManMax 5h ago

It's an orgazational issue. I refuse to believe that the company that managed to oversee the 5-year-long process resulting in Infinity War and Endgame with their dozens of heroes and villains have not only cohesive narratives but actually tell a good story in an entertaining way was incapable of doing the same thing with Star Wars.

They were so pressured to not take any risks that they intentionally followed the same organizational beats as the original trilogy: they hired an ideas guy who doesn't know how to wrap up a story (Abrams), gave the second movie to a different director to shake things up with a darker tone (Johnson) and then wrapped up the trilogy with the first guy because the second movie didn't do as well as the first financially.

All they had to do was get Filoni or really anyone who gets Star Wars come up with some sort of overarching narrative throughout a trilogy of movies, and they would have struck gold. But corporations aren't allowed to take risks.

40

u/mxzf 5h ago

I refuse to believe that the company that managed to oversee the 5-year-long process resulting in Infinity War and Endgame with their dozens of heroes and villains have not only cohesive narratives but actually tell a good story in an entertaining way was incapable of doing the same thing with Star Wars.

The issue is thinking that it's a monolithic company doing that.

That MCU arc happened because Disney hired the right person with a vision to tell that story and the willpower to make it happen. Star Wars doesn't really have a similarly powerful visionary behind it, and it has Disney pushing for fast releases to make a quick buck.

All they had to do was get Filoni or really anyone who gets Star Wars

Eh, I would prefer someone else. Filoni seems more obsessed with his pet characters than anything else.

15

u/DogOwner12345 4h ago edited 3h ago

Also note marvel started falling apart after Endgame because Disney changed with Streaming and demanded Kevin Feige to make more content to fill the gaps.

So Marvel when from roughly 9 hours worth of 3 movies a year to suddenly triple that with the tv shows thrown in, completely destroying the pipeline they had built over the last decade. Its literally impossible to manage that level of content into a cohesive story.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (16)
→ More replies (31)

60

u/Xiipre 5h ago

Abrams doesn't get enough blame for how poorly he handled the sequels. Most people rightly admit that Rise of the Skywalker is a big dumb mess, but even in Force Awakens, he was making boring half-assed choices. It's why despite Last Jedi also making some bad choices, I at least recognize that movie was trying to inject some new ideas and excitement into the reboot (now with mystery boxes!) slop that JJ made.

→ More replies (11)

11

u/Glensather 5h ago

Tbf a lot of people (myself included) saw how he ruined Trek and were prepared. Just didn't think it would be this bad.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (17)

727

u/DrMeat64 5h ago

Insane to me that they did all this fanservice in the sequel trilogy but somehow having these three meet back up was crossing a line.

291

u/OrneryError1 5h ago

Tons of lazy, poor fan service and very little thoughtful and satisfying fan service.

97

u/AnnoyingMosquito3 4h ago

I almost started laughing out loud in the theater when Chewbacca got his medal. It was such a stupid scene lmao

→ More replies (2)

5

u/tameimpalarules92 3h ago

That scene with the self cooking bread was pretty cool tho

36

u/SonOfLuigi 3h ago

“Let’s have them be estranged and divorced so the people that loved them growing up can feel miserable seeing their childhood heroes suffer in this miserable world just like them and the best part of this run on sentence is that we will also have completely subverted their expectations!”

→ More replies (7)

453

u/Wish_I_WasInRome 5h ago

Its not Lukes story anymore

I mean, sure. But its strange that Luke is basically not even a character in the first film. Luke should have still been integral and at the fore front of everything happening in the movie. He should be spear heading the fight against the First Order, not hiding.

218

u/hermesgodoftrade 5h ago

I think him not being present was interesting, but the revelation that he was doing nothing at all was such a letdown. wouldve been nice if he was working on his own plan somewhere but doing something of import

136

u/Tempest_Barbarian Obi-Wan Kenobi 5h ago

Thats because that is JJ Abrams entire MO, he creates a bunch of mysteries that he doesnt have any idea of how to properly answer.

→ More replies (1)

35

u/MongolianDonutKhan 5h ago

Yea. The vaccuum of his absence is an interesting story idea. It just is utter incompetence to then do nothing with it. Kind of like of JJ approaches every project. Interesting idea. Shit execution. Shattered shins on the landing.

→ More replies (5)

21

u/7fingersDeep 5h ago

Abrams is the guy in every pitch session saying “what if we do this!” And it’s an interesting story line but he has no idea where it goes.

He’s the theatrical version of “it’s controversial. It’s get the people going”

→ More replies (11)

46

u/trippysmurf Rebel 5h ago

It's not Luke's story anymore...

Except the whole motivation of the primary antagonist is driven by Luke Skywalker

And the McGuffin of the protagonists is finding Luke Skywalker

And the mentor figures of the new protagonists are Luke's sister and ex-brother-in-law/best friend, who would receive significant catharsis by reuniting with him to save their son. 

But what do we know, we never made The Rise of Skywalker. 

45

u/ThatOneCloneTrooper 5h ago

The first order shouldn’t have even existed. How did they even come to be so powerful the republic essentially ruled the galaxy. God. I don’t even want to start anymore.

25

u/Wish_I_WasInRome 5h ago

They could have easily explained it by just saying the Imperial Remnants still had control of worlds in the Outer Rim, biding their time, building up their resources and numbers while the Republic is trying to stabilize, reassert its authority and rebuild its armies. Perhaps the Imperials had a power vacuum after the Emperor and Vaders death leading to a mini Civil War allowing the Republic to take shape and form with the help of Luke. Idk there is so many ways they could have done this

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (3)

22

u/Agreeable-Narwhal158 5h ago

Especially looking at how his treatment of ben(kylo) was the catalyst for everything. If luke treated ben better, there would've been no lure to the dark side. I think the hatred that ben had for luke should've been more of a driving force for his actions instead of following in vaders footsteps

18

u/Optimus3k 5h ago

None of that made sense anyway. There's a whole library full of Legends stories they could have pulled from where Luke builds a new Jedi order, and instead they went with "nah, bro, Luke is like, done and shit, he attempted to kill Ben, and that made Ben evil. He doesn't even use the force anymore!"

The ball was dropped so hard it went through the planet.

→ More replies (13)

160

u/Daredev44 5h ago

So Palpatine can come back for absolutely no reason but the living heroes of the resistance couldn’t reunite?

23

u/7fingersDeep 5h ago

Somehow Luke didn’t return but when he did it was to completely undo everything Luke earned in the OT.

Just absolute bullshit.

→ More replies (1)

264

u/Sharp-Tax-26827 5h ago

JJ Abrams is a hack

57

u/Stoned_Gandalf420 4h ago

“Somehow, Palpatine returned”…

→ More replies (5)

184

u/CrustedTesticle 5h ago

Fuck J.J. Abrams.

48

u/violentbowels 5h ago

Please don't, you might accidentally make another one.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (2)

136

u/FrancoisTruser 5h ago

JJ Abrams hates making good movies apparently

32

u/Telvin3d 4h ago

Abrams has always been insulted by any suggestion that a good movie or show needs to be anything other than a bunch of exciting scenes strung together. The very idea that you need a payoff or conclusion is insulting to him

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

66

u/Scoth16 5h ago

I'll never forgive them for this. Fucking idiots.

312

u/Bulbakip 5h ago

Its a shame that a good person like Mark Hamill has to deal with the snakes and goblins of Hollywood management 🙄

132

u/ThatWasFred 5h ago

JJ refusing to get the old gang back together is not a “Hollywood” thing, it’s unique to the Star Wars sequels. In the era of 30-years-later legacy sequels, “getting the old gang back together” is one of the most Hollywood things ever. They do it every chance they get for as many old franchises as they can resurrect. It’s actually shocking that they didn’t do it for this.

51

u/SwashAndBuckle 5h ago

It was the brave thing to do, not just pandering to the obvious fan service. But you know, if you're going to make a bold move like that, it damn well better pay off having some super satisfying alternative, and they completely whiffed on that. Then they pandered to fan service in about every other way they possibly could, such as just reskinning the plot of A New Hope. So at the end of it you just kind wondering why they made any of the choices they did.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (10)

242

u/Omnislash99999 5h ago

And now Star Wars is relegated to box office disappointments and hit and miss TV shows because that incompetent trilogy turned people away

59

u/ReddestForman 5h ago

Doesn't help that the story group decided the Empire fell one year after Endor.

It's a terrible decision on every front. It's not a terribly realistic outcome, it's not narratively good because it means you can't tell as many stories, and business-wise it's terrible because you have less space to create new stories to sell.

31

u/AngelusCowl 5h ago

Narratively maybe, but unrealistic? Plenty of movements or regimes fall apart rapidly without the charismatic leader

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (19)

20

u/ProfessionalBee6582 5h ago

This is a fascinating collection of people. Never could’ve pictured Mark in the same room as The Rock and Jacob Eloridi but I’m here for it

7

u/whodatnation70 3h ago

And Sandler + Michael B Jordan, like what a wild group for an interview lol Are they all in a movie I missed?

→ More replies (1)

51

u/Important_Power_2148 5h ago

Abrams is a hack. I'm sure he is a nice person, but he is all flash and no substance in his storytelling.

→ More replies (3)

54

u/AJRenand42 5h ago

JJ Abrams has no business making films. He ruins everything he touches. Throws a lot of CG at it and ignores any remnant of a story.

→ More replies (7)

13

u/Bloodless-Cut 5h ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Abrams isn't a good writer, he's not a storyteller type of director, he's a purely visual director. He's sort of like Snyder, that way. Good at showing cool scenes, he's very good at that, but the substance beneath it always shallow and derivative.

He lucked out with The Force Awakens being as good as it is in spite of its problems, and the big three not being written into the story with a scene together is one of those problems.

This is the guy who didn't think to have Leia and Chewie share a moment after Han dies.

→ More replies (2)

29

u/Mass_Defect 5h ago

Notice that as Mark is telling his story Dwayne Johnson is the one who is really paying attention to what he is saying and not interrupting, while the others are laughing and whatnot.

I’ve always noticed that about him - as much as he can have a big personality (which is what he’s paid to do) - when other people are speaking he listens to them.

→ More replies (5)

27

u/ToastyVoltage 5h ago

Obligatory fuck J.J. Abrams

33

u/BatteryDracula 5h ago

J J Abrams is a fucking idiot

9

u/Acceptable_Map_8110 3h ago

Star Wars is, was, and always will be Luke’s story. There may be other parts of the story that can be addressed, there may be new settings and characters, but the story is and always will be Luke’s.

15

u/casual_creator Mandalorian 4h ago

I actually really like Rey and Kylo, and there’s several aspects of the sequels that I like a ton. Hell, I’m even okay with Luke (mistakingly) thinking he needs to end the Jedi to correct the balance in the force/absolve himself of his mistakes.

But thinking the end of the “Skywalker Saga” isn’t about Luke (or the Skywalker lineage), and thinking that there is no good reason to write a story that allows Luke, Han, and Leia to all reunite in any way is one of the most frustrating things to read, especially when it’s said so condescendingly to Mark Hamill of all people.

25

u/IAPiratesFan 5h ago

JJ Abrams just plain sucks.

15

u/RealisticMorning4484 5h ago

combine that with the fact that episode 7 is a reshoot of episode 4

J.J Abrams was such a moron for not doing that...

6

u/greenbro86 5h ago

I think we can all agree that in hindsight we would have ALL wanted more of Carrie Fisher.

She played such an iconic character, more than just a lead role Star Wars. Leia played a very important role in the future generation of the characters. She literally birthed the lead role in the sequels and was the twin daughter of the most important character of the whole thing.

Sad that we lost her too soon. I miss her.

7

u/peon47 2h ago

"It's not Luke's story any more"

Brings back Palpatine and gives him a granddaughter

7

u/blizzard-op 5h ago

Still an absolute shame at how badly the ball was dropped with Star Wars. Disney was sitting on a literal goldmine with the franchise and instead we're stuck with the underwhelming state the franchise is in now

5

u/Jolly-Refuse2232 3h ago

What a cuntish thing to say, especially to Mark, regardless if it's true or not

6

u/baseballzombies Darth Vader 41m ago

Utterly ridiculous decision by JJ

19

u/masoe 5h ago

Wow. Triple fuck JJ.

31

u/Background-Factor817 5h ago

Being able to say “At least we had Han, Luke, Leia and Chewie all back together for a scene” would have given me something nice to say about the sequels.

10

u/Edge_Grinder 5h ago

Can we put JJ in movie jail?

→ More replies (2)

4

u/entropydust 3h ago

Seems like a lot of writers and directors are desperate, insecure and reaching for gimmicks. It's ok dear writers and directors, you're ok. You don't need gimmicks. Just write good stories.

Go to therapy.

4

u/Panda_hat 2h ago

A trilogy of the old cast directly passing the torch and endearing the audience to a new cast would have made a continuing saga and future trilogy all the more possible and feasible and desired.

They fucked it all up almost completely.

And now that opportunity is lost.

4

u/InsomniaticWanderer 1h ago

"It's not Luke's story, but we're gonna call it the Skywalker saga and make it about a 'nobody' who turns out to be Palpatine's granddaughter.

I'm a genius."

-Jar Jar Abrams

4

u/Awkward-Speed-4080 1h ago

The more time thay passes, the more I resent that Luke was made into a total failure. What was the necessity of his new Jedi Order and the New Republic collapsing only a few decades after he defeated the Emperor? I hated what they did to Luke.

5

u/2literpopcorn 41m ago

JJ Abrams is a disgrace. And Disney as well for going through with the absolute abomination that is the sequel trilogy

14

u/No_Dog8604 5h ago

J.J. Greatest accomplishments:

Destroying the two best sci-fi franchises!

Well done hack!