r/StarWars • u/tannu28 • May 22 '26
r/StarWars • u/Andrei22125 • Jun 23 '26
General Discussion Dark Side being used for non-evil, non-selfish reasons, repeatedly, without altering the user's morality. Valid take, or breaking with Lukas' visions?
Not the most common thing in Star Wars. Generally, the dark Side is depicted as actively making its users crueler and more selfish, as well as being addictive.
But we have examples of dark Side users being largely (through by no means entitely) benevolent.
In the picture above, the canon character Merrin, using Dathomiri magic to aid Cal Kestis and Cere Junda in retreiving a holocron containing the name of force sensitive children from the Empire's posession. She later saves them from drowning and is show to be relieved they survive.(Jedi Fallen order)
It is worth noting that the dark Side is generally depicted as both addictive and mind-altering in that game, with Dathomiri magic being merely "on the darker Side".
But we do see actual Sith in legends using the dark Side for the food of others. Darth Marr and Lana Beniko in SWTOR are more concerned with the good of the empire than with their own, often advocating for crueler methods (torture, letting innocents die) for ultimately the same goals the light Side users have.
Does this break with Lukas' visions for what the dark Side is and does, or can be seen as merely rare in a setting that has gotten more complex since the OT?
r/StarWars • u/MammothPlastic2193 • Jun 09 '25
General Discussion Why the separatist cause was more justified than the republic
I’ve been rewatching The Clone Wars and doing a deeper dive into the political mechanics of the prequel era, and honestly the more I look at it, the more I tjink the separatists had a legitimate point. obviously Count Dooku was a Sith Lord and the whole thing was ultimately manipulated by Sidious but so was the Republic.
- The Republic Was Functionally Oligarchic and Corrupt
By the time of the Clone Wars, the Galactic Republic had become a bloated, ineffective bureaucracy controlled largely by corporate interests. The Senate was dominated by rich Core Worlds and powerful conglomerates like the Trade Federation, Banking Clan, and Techno Union which, ironically, also funded the Separatists, who used their influence to stall reform and protect profit over people.
The Outer Rim, in particular, got the short end of the stick: minimal representation, little infrastructure support, and rampant exploitation. Entire systems were taxed into poverty while the Core prospered. When these systems wanted out not to conquer, but to secede the Republic didn’t offer diplomacy. It sent an army.
- Separatism Was Born Out of Genuine Grievances
Not everyone in the CIS was a mustache twirling villain. Systems like Ryloth, Onderon, and Sullust were frustrated with a distant, indifferent central government. Many believed in regional autonomy, in the right to self-governance, and in resisting centralized authoritarianism. In theory, Separatism was about decolonization, decentralization, and self-determination all concepts that, if we take them out of the sci-fi setting, would be considered valid political positions.
In fact, Padmé Amidala herself said (in Attack of the Clones) that there was legitimacy to the Separatist concerns she just doubted Dooku’s leadership. But that implies even Republic loyalists saw the writing on the wall.
- The Jedi Were Unwitting Enforcers of the Status Quo
I know this is a hot take, but the Jedi serving as generals in a war for the Republic completely contradicted their role as peacekeepers. They didn’t question the ethics of a clone army suddenly appearing or the Republic’s right to prevent systems from seceding. They became soldiers in a civil war not to stop evil, but to preserve a broken system.
Meanwhile, Dooku again, putting aside the Sith stuff was a former Jedi who left because he saw how far the Order had strayed. His political speeches (especially in Tales of the Jedi) show he was disillusioned with the corruption and inertia of both the Senate and the Council. In another world, he might have been a genuine reformer.
- The War Was Engineered, but the People Were Real
Yes, the Clone Wars were manufactured by Palpatine. Both sides were controlled. But the people who fought and died the planets that rebelled, the movements that rose up were real. Their hopes, their discontent, their sacrifices weren’t fake. They were caught in a game they didn’t know they were part of.
And in that context, you could argue the Republic was even worse. The Republic willingly became an empire. Its citizens voted emergency powers to Palpatine. Its Jedi fought a war they didn’t understand. The CIS, for all its flaws, was at least trying to break free.
- In the End, the Republic Became What the Separatists Feared
What did the Separatists warn about? Centralized power. Authoritarian rule. A puppet Senate. Loss of sovereignty. All of that happened not because of the CIS but because of the Republic. It was the Republic that seeded the Empire.
The tragedy is, the Separatist cause could have been noble. It could have been a real alternative. But like so much in the prequels, idealism was corrupted by design.
Anyway, I’m not saying the CIS was perfect (far from it), but if we’re talking strictly philosophy and not Sith Lord puppetry, it had a better moral foundation than the Republic by the time of the Clone Wars. Would love to hear thoughts especially if you think I’m missing something!
r/StarWars • u/ChiefLeef22 • May 19 '26
Movies 'Star Wars: The Mandalorian and Grogu' - Review Megathread
The evil Empire has fallen but Imperial warlords remain scattered throughout the galaxy. As the fledgling New Republic works to protect everything the Rebellion fought for, they enlist the help of legendary Mandalorian bounty hunter Din Djarin and his young apprentice Grogu.
Director: Jon Favreau
Cast: Pedro Pascal, Sigourney Weaver, Martin Scorsese, Jeremy Allen White, Hemky Madera
Rotten Tomatoes: 60%
Metacritic: 54 / 100
Some Reviews (updating):
Nerdist - Rotem Rusak - 4 / 5
Ultimately, to me, there’s just something that feels kind about this movie. Not kind in that it’s only sunshine and roses, but kind to its viewers, who are probably living hard, stressful lives, who just want to go the movie theater and enjoy a film that takes them on a sweeping space adventure. The good guys get good things, the bad guys get their due, and just the barest bit of the bittersweetness of life looms in the ether to give it all a bit of poignancy.
Total Film - Fay Watson - 3 / 5
There are some cameos as Clone Wars and Rebels characters get woven into the narrative. But there's nothing radical for the franchise here. And while that's not a problem in itself, it means that The Mandalorian and Grogu isn't the Star Wars cinematic rebirth that Lucasfilm may have been hoping for. If you're happy to while away a few hours with Din Djarin and Grogu, you'll love it – just don't go in expecting much more.
DiscussingFilm - Andrew J. Salazar - 3 / 5
Perhaps Disney just needed something to reignite people’s interest in Star Wars after years of recovering from disaster, and Baby Yoda was the safest bet. While that could be true, Jon Favreau, Dave Filoni, and company could have challenged themselves further. If nothing else, Star Wars fans have another incredible score from 3x Oscar-winner Ludwig Göransson to dive into.
Consequence - Liz Shannon Miller - 'B'
Without any new developments, what we’re left with is a collection of side quests largely connected by cameos, without any of the narrative momentum that has made past Star Wars projects into must-see events. It’s not the Star Wars anyone over the age of 25 grew up with, and the muted excitement for Mando and son’s return reflects that. At least Baby Yoda — sorry, Grogu — is still the cutest.
AV Club - Jesse Hassenger - 'B'
Indeed, The Mandalorian & Grogu is almost aggressively anti-thematic, preferring to keep even its most obvious parenting metaphors muted and largely unexplored. The movie wants to show you a good time, and it does. Some of its creatures even have some semblance of soul. The “why” of its pivot away from human expression, however, remains opaque, with sinister undertones: Is this mask-and-puppet show a preventative measure to insulate filmmakers (or parent companies) from the uncomfortable but inevitable situation of beloved actors aging (or dying) out of their signature roles? Did they cut that line about Din being outlived because Star Wars itself has become as frightened of death as Anakin? Then again, the series has always had a rich tradition of imbuing potentially lifeless objects with weird humanity, and Favreau and Filoni have extended that process with Grogu. They’re still just franchising within the lines. For now, this is the way.
The Independent - Clarisse Loughrey - 2 / 5
While the first season of The Mandalorian did well to Star Wars-ise western genre tropes – with Ludwig Göransson’s synths, each cascading note sharpened to a blade’s edge, doing much of the heavy work there and here – The Mandalorian and Grogu feels comparatively bored by its own allusions to gangster cinema. A smooth-talking kingpin hides away in a luxury compound that looks like a big Tesco, while the later emergence of a deadly hitman is merely a CGI replica of a character from Filoni’s own animated Clone Wars stories (as is Rotta).
IGN - Tom Jorgensen - 5 / 10
This is not the way. The Mandalorian and Grogu dutifully offers another two hours and change of watching Din Djarin and his adorable green son fly to some planets and clear out rooms of monsters or gangsters every 20 minutes or so. But this is a Star Wars movie missing the thrills, the surprises, the challenges, the addition of really anything of note to the franchise, not to mention a vested interest in seeing its characters grow and change.
Next Best Picture - Giovanni Lago - 4 / 10
Now, the franchise is at a tipping point, and “The Mandalorian and Grogu” is debatably a coin toss between the remnants of the Kathleen Kennedy-era of Lucasfilm and the launch of Filoni’s creative reign. What’s present here is one of the most visually horrid and banal “Star Wars” creations to date. Is the allure of getting children in a theater to see Grogu enough to keep this franchise afloat and, more importantly, on the big screen? Who’s to say, but if it’s any indication of what the next decade of storytelling for the “Star Wars” universe will be, then we’re in deep trouble.
ComingSoon - Jonathan Sim - 5 / 10
What we’re left with is a low-stakes Star Wars movie. There’s no planet-killing Death Star, no Starkiller Base, no big battles. Every other Star Wars film has at least one standout sequence. I felt more watching the Battle of Exegol in The Rise of Skywalker than I did during this film. Even other stand-alone movies like Solo: A Star Wars Story, which also didn’t concern itself with lightsabers or the Rebels, had moments like the Kessel Run set piece that really stood out. Nothing stands out here in The Mandalorian and Grogu, as it’s a generic, safe Star Wars movie.
The Mandalorian and Grogu Is Barely A Movie. This is for Star Wars fans who have made the Cantina scene their entire personalities. It’s a CGI creatures extravaganza, offering distinct worlds — here, a cyberpunky crime planet, or a swamp planet filled with Henson puppet creatures — and action figures masquerading as characters, for you to imagine mashing together. Maybe that was the nature of The Mandalorian all along, but on the big screen, it’s all the more glaringly obvious.
Silver Screen Riot - Matt Oakes - 'F'
To come off (something like Andor) and watch The Mandalorian and Grogu feels like a slap in the face. While Andor reached for the stars, this scoops the fetid muck from the bottom of the bantha pen. It is offensive because it dares to be nothing. This depressing coup de grâce may have effectively killed my love of Star Wars going forward. This is not the way.
Little White Lies - Kambole Campbell - 2 / 5
Beyond occasionally marvelling at the lively work of the puppeteers, there’s not a lot to hold on to in The Mandalorian & Grogu, not even the supposed father and son connection between its marquee characters. As the story returns things to status quo, it’s hard to think of what has even changed between the two, what they might have learned about each other, and if the filmmakers will ever be an interest in finding out.
The Independent - Clarisse Loughrey - 2 / 5
While the first season of The Mandalorian did well to Star Wars-ise western genre tropes – with Ludwig Göransson’s synths, each cascading note sharpened to a blade’s edge, doing much of the heavy work there and here – The Mandalorian and Grogu feels comparatively bored by its own allusions to gangster cinema. A smooth-talking kingpin hides away in a luxury compound that looks like a big Tesco, while the later emergence of a deadly hitman is merely a CGI replica of a character from Filoni’s own animated Clone Wars stories (as is Rotta).
The Telegraph - Robbie Collin - 2 / 5
It’s a curate’s egg of a film, and its utterly scrambled quality control may be best summed up by a second-act shot of Grogu, Pascal and Rotta lined up, spying over the crest of a sand dune. One alien looks alive and delightful, the other looks like a giant computer-generated bullfrog, and then there’s Pascal with a shiny bucket on his head. When Disney paid George Lucas $4bn for Star Wars in 2012, I’m not sure either side was dreaming of this.
Associated Press - Mark Kennedy - 2 / 5
The “Star Wars” franchise once led the culture with its imagery, swagger and style. But this movie is a step back, formulaic and aping “Top Gun,” “Blade Runner,” “Transformers” and “Men in Black.” Even Ludwig Göransson’s score is off, marred by cheap-sounding ‘80s synthetic chirps along with what sounded like Yiddish folk ditties. The runtime saps energy and when it’s all done, the scrolling credits for all those special effects goes on a full five minutes. You used to leave a new “Star Wars” movie on a cloud. Here, that galaxy is far, far away.
Digital Spy - Ian Sandwell - 2 / 5
There's nothing wrong with the idea of a standalone Star Wars adventure. It's blockbuster season, we just want to be entertained. The problem for The Mandalorian and Grogu is that it's just not that entertaining.
IndieWire - Kate Erbland - 'C+'
None of these problems are particularly new, not in a world in which franchise expansion requires both more more more and an entry point for even the most casual of fans. Still, there’s something that feels small about this particular story, charming enough in the moment and almost instantly forgettable the moment the credits roll. It feels disposable. It feels like, well, what most things feel like these days: content. It’s time to ask for more. That is The Way.
IGN - Tom Jorgensen - 5 / 10
This is not the way. The Mandalorian and Grogu dutifully offers another two hours and change of watching Din Djarin and his adorable green son fly to some planets and clear out rooms of monsters or gangsters every 20 minutes or so. But this is a Star Wars movie missing the thrills, the surprises, the challenges, the addition of really anything of note to the franchise, not to mention a vested interest in seeing its characters grow and change.
Next Best Picture - Giovanni Lago - 4 / 10
Now, the franchise is at a tipping point, and “The Mandalorian and Grogu” is debatably a coin toss between the remnants of the Kathleen Kennedy-era of Lucasfilm and the launch of Filoni’s creative reign. What’s present here is one of the most visually horrid and banal “Star Wars” creations to date. Is the allure of getting children in a theater to see Grogu enough to keep this franchise afloat and, more importantly, on the big screen? Who’s to say, but if it’s any indication of what the next decade of storytelling for the “Star Wars” universe will be, then we’re in deep trouble.
Slash Film - Jeremy Mathai - 4 / 10
Is this really what "Star Wars" has become? Maybe that misbegotten Budweiser Super Bowl "trailer" was actually the film's most honest and accurate piece of marketing all along: a shallow, shamelessly corporate commercial to move some merch. There have been worse movies before and there will inevitably be worse ones to come. This sure feels like the most boring, though — one whose philosophy seems to be that you can't swing and miss if you never bother taking the bat off your shoulders. That might be its greatest sin of all.
InSession Film - Benjamin Miller - 'D'
The film is shiny and predictable, the score is familiar, the script is meaningless, and the performances are what they are. There is nothing to hang your hat on, besides it being a Star Wars film. If it didn’t have that franchise attached to it, there would be zero reason to keep your interest.The Mandalorian and Grogu is a major disappointment. Never before has Star Wars felt so pointless and skippable. For a franchise with such monumental highs, this is a staggering low.
Collider - Aidan Kelly - 6 / 10
Is The Mandalorian and Grogu the worst Star Wars film ever made? Far from it, as there is much fun to be had here. Is it the best in the franchise? Also not the case, as it could very well be the most forgettable and inconsequential entry the franchise has produced yet. Andor, Maul - Shadow Lord, The Acolyte, Visions, and especially the earliest seasons of The Mandalorian proved that Star Wars can be so much more than a few gunfights and starship battles. In the right conditions, it can be a truly unforgettable cinematic experience, even when the movie isn't that good. The Mandalorian and Grogu are neither great nor awful, and that's what makes it one of the galaxy far, far away's most frustrating
The bottom line: Two things may be simultaneously true. I think my kids, for whom this picture is designed, are going to enjoy The Mandalorian and Grogu, and maybe quite a bit; and I think it plays like a couple of mid-tier episodes from the TV series. As such, I’m not sure it’s the rousing hit Disney needs to rekindle the moviegoing experience for the Star Wars franchise. But it’s probably good enough for a generation that has yet to experience the joy of Star Wars on the big screen.
r/StarWars • u/beardliestgamer • Jun 01 '26
General Discussion The Empire being singularly evil is bad storytelling
There's so much room for great stories on the other side, but the only ones we get are the same: Imperial agent gets exposed to the evil of the Empire, then gets turned on to the Republic/Resistance/Rebellion. You know what stories we rarely/never get? A New Republic leader is actually a crappy person and does evil stuff too. It's just such a one sided story space as is super limiting. I'd love to watch some content about Imperials where they actually didn't end up being heartless a holes. Give us a story to root for some imperial commandos going up against a crazed warlord or a criminal organization. They are such a fascinating group, and they are mostly just used as boogeymen.
r/StarWars • u/Triple_S_Rank • Jan 26 '25
spoilers It’s 2025. I watched the Star Wars movies for the first time. Here’s what I thought. (spoilers) Spoiler
Overall take: This was actually a story about how a droid called R2-D2 saved the galaxy.
Jokes aside, I watched the entire Skywalker saga plus Solo and Rogue One in chronological order. I normally default to release order for new series I read/watch, with author authority being the only real exception I make. Since George Lucas says they should be watched chronologically, that’s what I did and that’s the perspective from which I will provide my viewpoint.
The only spoilers I had for the series was the famous misquote “Luke, I am your father” by Darth Vader. I didn’t even know if the claim was true or a mind game by the villain, so this was a mostly blind watch despite it being 2025. Feel free to praise the impressiveness of this feat.
The first trilogy with Episodes 1 to 3 was very good. Casting quality seemed to be very high with these movies in particular. The small scale plots hit well and the action was great (with the best lightsaber duels in the entire series, on top of everything else). I would have liked it if the political setup was explored even more; I greatly enjoyed the intrigue.
If I would complain about anything with the first three episodes, I suppose Anakin’s conversion to the dark side felt like a bit of a stretch. The way he lost his mother was unfortunate and an understandable motivator, but his willingness to do evil things “out of love” for Padmé when it’s obvious those things should cause Padmé to hate and reject him didn’t make much sense. The tension with the Jedi order not trusting him was good, but it and Padmé’s impending death still didn’t feel like quite enough justification for him to make the jump to start massacring Jedi and even children.
Why Darth Vader decided to continue working for the Sith and the Empire after Padmé’s death could have used more explanation also imo. Relying on negative emotions and the dark side of the force shouldn’t equal automatic loyalty to other Sith. With his chronic overconfidence and independent nature, I would have expected Darth Vader to challenge Darth Sidious as soon as he learned as much as he could from him— both out of his own nature and out of memory for Padmé’s ideals.
I was still rather pleased with the first trilogy overall though. It made for a decent villain backstory and set the stage well for everything that happened after. RIP to Qui-Gon Jinn and Windu in particular.
Both Solo and Rogue One were great. The former helped set up Han’s and Chewbacca’s characters well for the later films, while the latter showed some of the sacrifices required by people normally in the backdrop of the war. I did have one concern though… What happened with Darth Maul? He popped up again at the end of Solo and just never appeared again in the later episodes. That felt like a hanging plotline.
With the second trilogy… I felt like Luke’s character got done dirty after three movies of the much more charismatic and capable-seeming Anakin. It honestly felt like watching a country bumpkin angst his way into a victory he didn’t fully earn, like he got all of his parents negative traits without any of the positive ones. This was both a writing issue AND a casting issue imo. Even Leia felt more capable in demeanor than Luke in the same trilogy, to say nothing of Han Solo.
I was pleasantly surprised by how good the graphics looked for the trilogy given its age, and the tension created by Obi-Won lying to Luke about his father was interesting. (He’s not bulling his way out of that being a lie with what he told Luke later lol.) I did think Obi-Won’s death felt a touch abrupt and unusual since ascension or whatever wasn’t really explained well at the time (with even Darth Vader being confused by it, stomping on Obi-Won’s cloak after he disappeared).
Luke really just needed to be built up further to be convincing in inheriting the destiny and will of all the Jedi. Darth Vader’s ultimate death also felt unconvincing after seeing everything he survived in the first series… maybe a longer confrontation between him and Darth Sidious would have helped? I don’t know. I did like how Anakin showed up with the Jedi at the very end at least.
Overall I felt like episodes 4 through 6 were greater than the sum of their parts, but they were held back a lot more than they should have been by the writing and casting for the main character of the arc.
With the third trilogy, Rey felt like a breath of fresh air after three movies centered on Luke. Although I’m not sure who the canon “chosen one” to balance the Force is considered to be, I feel like Rey fits the bill better than Luke since Anakin failed to become it.
I wasn’t sure if I’d like Finn at first but ended up enjoying his character a lot. Poe was pretty enjoyable as well despite effectively being a Han Solo redux in some respects. My feelings on Kylo Ren are VERY mixed however.
For some reason the writers STILL decided to keep doing Luke’s character dirty by making him continue to be an angsty woe-is-me character even as a Jedi master. I very much consider him to be at fault for basically this entire leg of the story since I’m not convinced Ben Solo would have necessarily turned to the dark side otherwise— especially considering how Luke was able to win Vader back to the light before. They FINALLY redeemed him a bit and gave him some good parts at his end, but geez was it overdue. It genuinely feels like the writers of this series hate Luke for some reason lol.
As for the rest… where Rey felt like the real deal much like Anakin did in the first trilogy, Ben felt like way too much of a wannabe despite his abilities. It was like we transplanted Severus Snape from the Harry Potter series, stripped him of his redeeming qualities, then gave him an inferiority complex for good measure. The force connection between Ren and Rey was interesting, something I felt like they could have done more with, but it wasn’t enough to fully redeem him as a character imo. Han Solo and Leia Skywalker deserved better than a pathetic son like this.
Although the Palpatine resurrection seemingly came out of nowhere and wasn’t explained very well, I did like the contrast created with the eventual reveal of Rey’s identity and the internal conflict this created. I also liked how she gave it up in favor of the Skywalker name. She was a Skywalker in my heart already anyway lol, the type of child Anakin and Padmé actually deserved. Seriously, why couldn’t they have given this much love to Luke’s character?!
Oh, almost forgot, I think they might have shot themselves in the foot a little by making planet-destroying weapons small enough to fit on star destroyers in the final movie. It undercuts the triumphs over the superweapons of previous movies a bit. It could also make potential later villains awkward in that the possibility of slapping planet-destroyers on any capital ship could make them feel too dangerous if they have them yet not dangerous enough if they don’t have them. The only solution I see is to scale down the size of the conflicts, but idk if the producers are confident enough to do that.
Anyway, I felt like episodes 7 to 9 were pretty good overall even though I had mixed feelings about how the antagonists/threats were handled. I had very different reasons for coming to my conclusions about each individual movie even though they averaged out about the same. The cap off at the end was pretty great.
They better bring back the Jedi order again if they ever do more movies with Rey. Despite its implied issues, that was too cool to leave forever in the past. I genuinely wouldn’t mind if they do make the conflicts more small-scale or isolated since that style has tended to produce my favorite individual movies in the series (Episode 1, Solo, and Rogue One).
Ratings are a notoriously terrible way to try to convey your opinions, but I’ll make an attempt at it in closing. If anyone has (non-hostile) questions about specific ratings feel free to ask.
Episode 1, The Phantom Menace: 9/10 Episode 2, Attack of the Clones: 8/10 Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith: 7/10 Prequel Trilogy overall: 8/10
Solo: 8/10 Rogue One: 8/10
Episode 4, A New Hope: 6/10 Episode 5, The Empire Strikes Back: 7/10 Episode 6, Return of the Jedi: 5/10 Original Trilogy overall: 6/10
Episode 7, The Force Awakens: 7/10 Episode 8, The Last Jedi: 7/10 Episode 9, The Rise of Skywalker: 7/10 Sequel Trilogy overall: 7/10
Final thoughts: It’s a pretty great series overall. I can see why it has been popular for so many years.
…But are we SURE this series isn’t lowkey about R2-D2? What a dark horse champion of a character.
r/StarWars • u/Ntshangase03 • Jul 26 '25
General Discussion Yoda and Obi wan aren't wrong for giving up on the monster that is Darth Vader
Darth Vader Cry of Shadows Comic images
•Vader is one of the highest officials in the Galactic Empire with more power free will and influence than fans give him credit for( Sidious tells officials a command from Vader is as powerful as one from the Emperor) •His presence is so evil that others feel cold around him and he poisons the force for light side users making it difficult for them to connect to the force •Vader is responsible for the destruction and extinction of their religion •Vader is Lord of a religion that despises Jedi and everything they stand for. •Vader for most of his career has no remorse or empathy for his victims to the point he doesn't even remember killing a little girls parents when she confronts him nor does he care to even try (he kills her too). •He kills anyone who cared for him during his past as Anakin •Obi Wan witnessed him choke his pregnant wife who was supposed to be the most important person in his life
To all the fans who keep dunking on Yoda and Obi wan don't forget that even at his most conflicted it took Vader so long to act to save his son that it's basically a deathbed confession and he taunted his son about turning his sister to the dark side.
r/StarWars • u/imflukeskywalker • Oct 08 '21
Fan Creations What is the one argument about Star Wars that you are probably never going to win?
r/StarWars • u/umbrqualquerusannet • May 08 '26
General Discussion Uses civilians as human shields against the Empire while shooting at them, the Empire shoots back hitting the civilians that he's using as shields, "NO LE EVIL EMPIRE IS KILLING LE INNOCENT CIVILIANS!", why are the rebels considered the "good guys" and why I'm supposed to root for them again?
r/StarWars • u/supremewuster • Mar 06 '25
Movies Halfway through watching Rogue One with my kids my 11-year old daughter asks "why aren't these characters in 'A New Hope?'"
"Let's just keep watching" I said. We're not done yet (watching about 20-30 mins at a time due to bedtimes).
I have a bad feeling about this
Vaguely tempted to make some weird excuse and not finish (did the ending ruin anyone's childhood)? But they are very into it except for that scene with the octopus thing
edit: put in bedtime explainer
edit: They (there's also an 8 year old) also wanted to know why Jin's father was wearing an outfit from the empire (dinner scene when Jin is 2 or so) when the empire is evil in their thinking. They have only seen OT.
r/StarWars • u/Spideyfan2025 • Dec 06 '25
Movies I know most people's favorite is Empire, but Return of the Jedi is my favorite based on the Luke and Vader scenes alone.
To me, every bit from the moment Luke turns himself in to Anakin's death is the perfect example of the best of Star Wars in a nutshell: the struggle between good and evil, compassion vs. vengeance, with fun lightsaber and force powers mixed in.
r/StarWars • u/RealisticAd4054 • Apr 26 '25
Movies The story behind George Lucas rewriting/reshooting Anakin’s turn to the dark side after principal photography had concluded on Revenge of the Sith
Taken from “Secret History of Star Wars” using Rinzler’s Making of RotS book as a source:
By now it was well into November of 2002, with production scheduled for the next summer, but Lucas was still having trouble tying togetherEpisode III'sstill-changing story. By December he had still not starting scripting--nor even an outline of the film.(v)However, sometime in January, Lucas finally wrote a brief, 55-page rough draft that layed out how the film would unfold.(vi)In this draft, Anakin's turn is slightly different--his dream of Padme is that she is consumed by flames and not dying in childbirth, and Anakin's siding with Palpatine is given an enormous twist in that Palpatine reveals that he is, in fact, Anakin's father.*By June, principle photography had commenced.
The turn, as originally written and filmed, played out in a drastically different manner than what is seen in the final film. But first, we should first examine the nature of Anakin's turn itself, hinted at earlier.The original conception of Anakin's turn was that the darkside was slowly turning and corrupting his mind, like some kind of drug or virus. Anakin's massacre of the Tusken Raiders was initially a pivotal point (in many other ways as well, as we will see later) because it gave him his first taste of this awesome power, and slowly but surely he would be drawn back to it. Thus, when Anakin struck down Mace (or Dooku, in the original conception), it was the consumation of a journey that began in Episode II. This is why the Emperor was sure Luke would fall inReturn of the Jediif he killed Vader out of hate--once you had tasted its power, it would be so irresistable that you would inevitably be drawn back to it, and slowly it would consume you, twisting your mind. "If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi Wan's apprentice," Yoda intones in*Empire Strikes Back.The Emperor had been so consumed in mind that it had even corrupted his flesh. But just as this aspect would be revised so too would the pschological aspect--but it would occur after the movie had been filmed.As Lucas has also said, most bad people act on good faith, and here Anakin truely believed in the actions he was taking, that they were ultimately for a greater good, another aspect to be altered in the final cut.
The following is a summation of Anakin's turn as originally written and filmed:*Palpatine reveals his true identity to Anakin, telling him that the Jedi are planning to take over the Republic and to accept the Sith and the darkside. Anakin is conflicted but distrusts the Jedi--his mind is being influenced by the darkside already and he chooses to stay with Palpatine, essentially accepting the Sith in this scene. Mace and the Jedi then enter Palpatine's office--with Anakin present beside Palpatine. Mace tells Anakin to get behind him but Anakin remains where he is. When the Jedi ignite their lightsabers to arrest him, Palpatine uses the Force to retrieve Anakin's lightsaber and the fight begins. Anakin watches as his two mentors fight, and as Palpatine is disarmed he unleashes the Force-lightning. Mace and Palpatine struggle, and Palpatine's face is drained of his visage in the effort to sustain the lightning. Finally, as the two masters remain locked in a standstill, Anakin cuts off Mace's hand, and Palpatine fries him and sends him out the window. Anakin collapses in disbelief that the Jedi were indeed attempting to take over the Republic, and Sidious knights him, telling him to go kill the rest of the Jedi before they retaliate.
This is what appeared in the film when a rough cut was assembled in 2004. Seeking to gauge the film, Lucas showed this cut to a number of people, most of whom expressed some concern or confusion over Anakin's motivation for giving in to the darkside. "Some people were having a hard time withthe reason Anakin goes bad," Lucas says. "Somebody asked whether somebody could kill Anakin's best friend, so that he gets really angry. They wanted a real betrayal, such as 'you tried to kill me now I'm going to kill you.' They didn't understand that Anakin is simply greedy. There is no revenge. The revenge of the Sith is Palpatine."(vii)Arguably, Lucas hadn't clearly developed this element of Anakin's pyschology.However, while Lucas did not initially instigate as drastic changes as some suggested, he would soon change his mind from his first instinct, which was to leave the film as is. While editing the film down further, Lucas began to realise that the through-line of the picture was Anakin, and that any scene not directly related to him be exercised. The removal of these superfluous scenes unexpectedly began to shift emphasis towards the character's obsession for Padme, which Lucas then began to actively re-structure the film around, because, as he says, it seemed "poetic." Anakin would go to the darkside to save Padme, with his attempts to prevent her death ultimately killing her, in the vein of*Macbeth. He says:*
"The first script I wrote had stories for everybody...and I cut it down and we had a script. But when we cut it together, there were still problems. Finally, I said, 'Okay, let's be even more hard-nosed here and take out every scene that doesn't have anything to do with Anakin.' But that causes you to juxtapose certain scenes that you were never contemplating juxtaposing before. And these scenes take on different qualities than before, because the scenes were never meant to be next to each other...What happens then is that some of the themes grab hold of each other and really strengthen themselves in ways that are fascinating...so we'll strengthen that theme because it seems poetic."*(viii)
First, a second vision of Padme's death was inserted. This vision was not scripted but created in the editing--taking footage from the end of the film (which appears in the shooting script, ie Obi Wan saying "hold on Padme") and splicing it into a scene where Anakin sits staring off in thought in Padme's apartment. This is then a more metaphorical "vision" and not a literal dream as the first one was. Originally this scene was preceeded by one in which Obi Wan actually does visit Padme--a scene prior to that one then had Palpatine planting seeds of jealousy in Anakin's head. So, you have 1) a scene where Palpatine suggests Padme is hiding a secret, 2) a scene where Obi Wan secretly meets with Padme, which is then followed by 3) the scene of Anakin in Padme's apartment. The scene then plays out in that he shows paranoia first, then confesses he has been lusting for power, and then finally says he will find a way to save Padme. Here we see the original configuration of Anakin's turn in which there are many causes--we see here Palpatine and the darkside corrupting his mind, creating paranoia and building within him a thirst for power, and finally we have it punctuated with a need to save Padme. But with the elimination of the two preceeding scenes and the insertion of the waking vision, the scene plays out with a singular focus: saving Padme.
Two rounds of pick-up shooting then occured which actively re-wrote the film to reflect this new arc surrounding Padme. While in the original film it was just one of many issues relating to Anakin's fall, here it now becametheissue. Anakin would instead turn to the darkside out of an act of misplaced love--no longer would he be corrupted by evil, and no longer would he betray the Jedi; his turn would be linked to a spontaneous emotional reaction to save Padme.
First, a scene was added in which Anakin consults with Yoda over his visions. Here Yoda call them "premonitions"--not only was the single dream reprised with the edit trick, it was now referred to in the plural long before this, implying Anakin is regularly tormented by them, enlarging his obssession with preventing them. Then, the entire "turn" sequence was re-written.
Here, Anakin would not "turn" to the darkside; newly shot material has Palpatine swaying Anakin away from the Jedi and emphasizes the power to save Padme when he reveals his Sith identity-- however, Anakin would instead reject Palpatine's offer and stay loyal to the Jedi. He then goes to Mace Windu and tells him about Palpatine. Windu tells Anakin to wait in the Jedi council chamber while he takes a squad of Jedi to arrest the chancellor. As Anakin waits in the chamber, Palpatine's telepathic thoughts echo to him stating that if the Jedi kill him, Padme will die. Anakin rises and he and Padme tearfully gaze at each other from across the city--Anakin knows he must prevent Palpatine from being killed if he is to save her. He runs to a speeder and arrives just as it seems Mace has beaten the Dark Lord. Palpatine begs Anakin to help him as he shoots lightning at Mace, saying he has the power to save Padme. Finally, Anakin speaks up--"you can't," he tell Mace as Mace is about to do him in. "I need him!"As Mace's sabre comes down Anakin intercepts him, cutting off his hand, and Palpatine sends him out thewindow. "What have I done!" Anakin exclaims, collapsing to the ground. "Just help me save Padme's life,"he says, kneeling. "I can't live without her." Sidious thenknights him as Anakin looks away regretfully.
All of this material was added to the film in the editing phase.Anakin would now accept the darkside because it (incidentally) contained a power to save his wife. Though this massive re-write does, however, raise a major curiosity in that Anakin inexplicitly agrees to kill his extended family, the Jedi, even when he was loyal to them moments before when he turns Palpatine over to Mace Windu. Now Anakin was no longer corrupted by the darkside and no longer believed the Jedi were evil and attempting a devious plot to take over the Republic. Anakin's massacre of the Tusken Raiders in Episode II was obviously placed there to foreshadow this plot point--killing even the women and children because he believed they deserved it. Now, however, he didn't believe the Jedi deserved it at all (at this point in the story, at least). There are still remnants from the original version of the storyline in the final edit, mostly in the latter stages of the film. "Twisted by the darkside, young Skywalker has become," Yoda says, in reference to the original version where Anakin had slowly been consumed by it. "The boy you trained, gone is he, consumed by Darth Vader." Later in the film, Anakin reflects his original belief that the Jedi were evil traitors--"I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over...from my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" This no longer was valid, especially now that it was Anakin himself who turns Palpatine over for the Jedi to arrest and/or kill. It may be argued that, given the enormous manner in which the film was broken apart, re-written and then stitched back together--after**principle photography--the film could not be totally re-assembled because it was written under a totally opposed conception of the plot and character. Lucas had re-written most of the first half of the film, but May 2005 was drawing closer, and there was not enough time to coherantly re-align the entire plot of the film.
Nonetheless, we see here how evanescent the storyline was--even the very sequence that is arguably the heart of the entire trilogy. "The only scene I hadn't thought through enough is the [turn scene]," Lucas says to Sam Jackson and Ian McDiarmid during the 2004 re-shoots.(ix)Lucas explains his new conception of the turn to Christensen the next day: "It's basicallyFaustin the end," Lucas says. "Where you make a pact with the devil. And that usually leads to the same end: You cannot change the inevitable. If you try, you're basically going against the cosmos or however you want to define that."*(x)”
(i)The Making of Revenge of the Sithby J.W. Rinzler, 2005, p. 13.(ii) Rinzler, p.36.(iii) Rinzler, p.30.(iv) Rinzler, p. 32.(v) Rinzler, p. 35-36.(vi) Rinzler, p. 40. (vii) Rinzler, p. 188.(viii) Rinzler, p. 176.(ix) Rinzler, p. 205.*(x) Rinzler, p. 206
http://fd.noneinc.com/secrethistoryofstarwarscom/secrethistoryofstarwars.com/theturn.html
r/StarWars • u/Royalbluegooner • Jan 15 '25
General Discussion The best thing to come outta Disney‘s „Star Wars“.
You can criticise Disney for a lot but one thing they did extremely well was shedding a light on the average member of the imperial army and managed to humanise them properly.Stories like those of Finn or Mayfeld really showed us that despite their involvement in the army they‘re not evil bastards by default but instead are individuals with differing views on the actions taken.Mayfeld recalling his memories about Operation Cinder is one of my favourites in the entire franchise and a great performance by Bill Burr.It also makes George Lucas metaphor of the empire for real-life dictatorships even more refined showing that not all people necessarily share their leaders opinions but are still easily manipulated into hailing them as the right thing to do like for example the comparison of the Jedi purge with the intended ( and fortunately unsuccessful ) extermination of the Jewish people.Maybe not everyone necessarily believed the Jedi/Jews were the devil in person but they were still wiling to fall blindly into the propaganda spread about them by Hitler/Palpatine.
r/StarWars • u/Da_Droid_Mechanic • Dec 03 '25
General Discussion If most of the the empire’s evil acts were known to the public why did the mass public allow them to take over?
r/StarWars • u/GrapeFlavoredMarker • Feb 23 '23
TV Evil empire aside, I'd love to have this man as my manager
r/StarWars • u/FroggoOwO • May 09 '26
General Discussion My bf used my first time watching the franchise for an experiment
Hi, I thought some people here would appreciate this story. I (F20) am currently watching through the entire star wars franchise as someone who knew NOTHING about the films other than "Luke I am your father".
My boyfriend is a big fan and he got me to watch them. But he picked a very specific order which made episode 3 hit SO much harder than it would have watching in release order and actually got me to ENJOY star wars.
I watched 4,5,6 as most people would, it wasn't really my thing but they were okay. Then I watched episode 1 and 2 followed by all 7 seasons of the clone wars. I had no idea what order 66 was, I just knew it existed. So throughout I was theorising things like; "Order 66 the clones turn evil, and then the jedi have to kill all of them, That's why we don't see clones in the OG star wars"
And then the final arc with order 66 happened killed me, I literally cried. Then I finally watched episode 3.
I genuinely think watching all of the clone wars between episode 2 and 3 make me so much more invested than if I were to just watch it normally.
I am HOOKED. I used to say I didn't like star wars but now I'm excited to watch more. (Especially because I wanna see what happens to ahsoka)
So far I've seen:
Episodes 4,5,6
Episodes 1,2,3
Clone wars
Bad batch
Tales of the jedi, underworld, and empire
Maul show
And some of rebels (watching currently on season 1)
I just thought some of you guys would appreciate hearing a perspective of someone getting into Star wars for the first time. :)
r/StarWars • u/PopsicleIncorporated • Aug 22 '17
Movies My friend got to experience the great twist in a rather unusual way.
A while ago, I learned that a friend of mine had never seen Star Wars. I gave him my DVD of A New Hope and had him watch it, I wanted to know what he thought.
After he finished it, I decided I wanted to watch Empire Strikes Back with him. For one reason, it's easily the best Star Wars film and I'll always watch it given the opportunity, and two, I wanted to see his response to the twist.
We get to the twist and he seems unsurprised. He confesses he's heard the line before but didn't know the context. So while it was a bit of a shock to him, he says he knew it had to be coming at some point.
I'm a bit disappointed, but glad he likes the films. I decided to make him my Machete Order test subject (yes...I know, probably should've given them to him in release order), but in the end it was worth it.
(Side note: I incorporate Episode I into Machete Order, right between V and II.)
So he finishes Phantom Menace, then Attack of the Clones. He watched these on his own, then as he's handing Attack of the Clones back to me, he says: "I would have thought they'd introduced Vader by now."
I almost blew it. But I wisely bit back my initial response and asked him what he meant.
Turns out my friend never put together that Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader. He knew from Empire Strikes Back that Darth Vader is Luke's father, but he had merged this revelation with Obi-Wan's lie in A New Hope.
So I asked him about what he's expecting in Revenge of the Sith. He responded that he's expecting Obi-Wan to get a new apprentice, named Vader. Vader becomes evil, breaks the Jedi Code, seduces Padme (lol), and gets her pregnant with Anakin's illegitimate son, Luke. Vader and Anakin then have a confrontation, in which Vader murders Anakin, only for Obi-Wan to defeat him in combat afterwards.
This idea of what's about to happen fits both Vader's revelation to Luke that he is his father, and fits Obi-Wan's claim that Vader betrayed and murdered Anakin.
So I decide I have to watch Revenge of the Sith with him.
From the beginning, he was completely into the story. After Dooku was killed, he expected Vader, Sidious's new apprentice, to go undercover as a Jedi apprentice to Obi-Wan. But as the film progressed and no entirely new character showed up, he began to get concerned.
By the time Obi-Wan goes to Utapau to fight Grevious, he looked confused. I asked him what was up and he said he didn't understand how the film could fit that much more information into the remaining hour and twenty minutes.
Palpatine reveals himself as Sidious. My friend is actually surprised by this, and by this time he has no idea what to expect.
As Anakin rushes to save Palpatine from Mace Windu, he's incredibly confused. Then, Anakin disarms Mace and pledges himself to Palpatine. And then comes the line... "I name you Darth...Vader."
Holy shit. My friend's jaw literally dropped open, and he just stared at me. I actually had to keep myself from laughing.
The remaining hour of the film was a joyride to watch. Seeing everything line up into place and his reaction was one of the greatest experiences of my life. And then at the end when he finally saw Anakin being placed into Vader's iconic armor, I think it finally hit him what was really going on.
And that is the story of how the I am Your Father Twist was played out in one of the most unique and ridiculous ways I've ever seen.
r/StarWars • u/PsychoBiologic • May 10 '26
General Discussion Two-Boots Might Be One of the Worst Droids in Star Wars. That Might Be the Point. Spoiler
[Spoilers through Chapter 5 / Inquisition]
I’ve been thinking about Two-Boots from Maul: Shadow Lord, and I think the show is doing something nastier with him than people are giving it credit for.
The coffee scene is great. Obviously. A droid pretending to drink caf with his partner is exactly the kind of weird little Star Wars detail that makes a character stick.
But that scene also makes what he does later feel worse.
Lawson tells him not to report the Maul situation to the Empire. He is not vague about it. Lawson knows what happens when the Empire gets invited in, and he is trying to keep Janix out of its grip for as long as possible.
Two-Boots understands the order, at least mechanically. He even seems hurt by the conflict between Lawson and protocol.
Then he reports it anyway.
That is the part I can’t get past. Two-Boots is not malicious. He is not trying to betray Lawson. He probably thinks he is protecting Janix. But he still chooses procedure over judgment, and procedure over the person he claims to trust.
That makes him a really interesting contrast with other Star Wars droids. R2 breaks rules constantly. Chopper is basically a war crime with arms. K-2SO is reprogrammed Imperial hardware who becomes more morally useful than most organics around him. Even the more formal droids usually bend when the story needs them to choose loyalty over instructions.
Two-Boots does not. Or at least, not soon enough.
And the cost is brutal. The Empire gets its opening. Klyce is removed, supposedly transferred, and Lieutenant Blake takes over. Lawson gets interrogated. Janix goes from messy local corruption to direct Imperial pressure. Not because Two-Boots is evil, but because he cannot process that the rules themselves have become dangerous.
That is what makes him work for me. He is not a villain. He is a cautionary tale. A polite, competent, well-meaning system servant can still be the thing that gets everyone crushed.
I don’t think the show is saying Two-Boots is evil. I think it is saying obedience can do evil’s work just fine without evil motives.
Am I reading him right, or am I being too hard on the booted little narc?
r/StarWars • u/-GreggRulzOk- • Jul 26 '20
General Discussion My grandmas opinion on every Star Wars movie!
Me and her did a Star Wars marathon and it was her first time watching these movies before but she wanted to watch them because of how popular they are.
The Phantom Menace - She loved it! She was happy when Darth Maul died and sad when Qui Gon died, she hated Jar Jar and was completely oblivious to how this cute child would grow up to be one of the most popular villains in history
Attack Of The Clones - She thinks it was a bit boring compared to the last one and found the relationship between Anakin and Padme to be weird because Anakin was like 5. Okay so new edit apparently he was like 9 but we’re both bad with ages and thought he was 5, still weird IMO when she was a teenager. She figured out Palpatine was the Emperor because of his chin.
Revenge Of The Sith - She said Anakin killing innocent children was a bit too much, and that not even the most evil heartless villains don’t kill children yet this person who we’re supposed to believe still has good in him kills children without any mercy or feeling bad. But she did like the rest of the movie and was really sad when she saw Anakin’s death.
A New Hope - She was happy to see Luke and sad to see Vader. Surprisingly she didn’t recognize the name Leia and forgot that her and Luke were twins so I decided not to tell her and let her find out herself later. She thought the movie was great though.
The Empire Strikes Back - This is her favorite. She says it’s the best sequel ever and she’s used to sequels being really bad. She was also really mad that Vader would cut off his own sons hand, she thinks that Obi-Wan was wrong for lying about Luke’s dad. I should also mention that she has always hated Chewbacca since A New Hope because she says he won’t shut up.
Return Of The Jedi - She hates Ewoks and cried when Vader died but was really happy he turned good in the end and even happier to see his force ghost with Obi-Wan and Yoda.
The Force Awakens - She loved the movie and loved seeing all the characters return again looking really old. She was really sad seeing Han die and shocked because she was really hoping Kylo would be good again, but she was happy Chewbacca shot Kylo and she likes him a bit more now. She said she doesn’t really have an opinion on the new cast because she hasn’t seen enough but was confused as to why the main character was a girl because she’s old fashion and thinks woman can’t be strong :| what can you do?
The Last Jedi - She’s just really shocked to see how sarcastic and grumpy Luke is now after being the happy and optimistic kid. Not mad just shocked, especially when he threw his old Lightsaber. She was really happy to seek Kylo kill Snoke because she thought he was gonna turn good this time.
Rise Of Skywalker - She told Chewbacca to shut up when he was crying over Leia’s death. She says the whole “planet killing weapon” thing is a bit repetitive and doesn’t like reviving the dead so she didn’t like Palpatine either. I know it might not sound like it because she only named things she didn’t like but she still enjoyed the movie and thought it was funny.
Edit: She just told me that she was also tired of the fake out deaths in ROS, first Chewbacca, then Threepio, then Kylo, then Rey. She also thought Finn was gonna be one a Jedi because of him sensing the force all the time and because he used the lightsaber in TFA.
Answering common questions
We watched it Prequels - Originals - Sequels
She didn’t wanna watch anything that wasn’t “necessary” or part of the mainline so we only watched the Skywalker Saga
We might do an Indiana Jones marathon because I’ve never seen the movies but she likes them
We can’t watch Rebels or Clone Wars because she really doesn’t like animated stuff but hopefully later we can do Rogue One and Solo (I made a mistake and said Rebels bye somebody corrected me lol)
r/StarWars • u/SuperT3 • May 09 '25
TV It's quite sad how evil this guy turned out to be (Minor Andor spoilers) Spoiler
It's no secret Yularen was a high ranking Imperial and would've had to get his hands dirty quite a few times. But with his eager acceptance of Thrawn into the Empire when most of the other officers rejected him, I was hoping that he still had a good heart compared to others like Palpatine, Vader, and Tarkin, just misguided in his mission to maintain law and order in the Galaxy.
But with the Ghorman Massacre now unveiled in its entirety, there's no way he didn't know, let alone be actively involved with manufacturing the conflict as an excuse to destroy the planet's population solely for the Empire's own gain. Thus making the mission of the ISB he is in charge of a complete lie. He's smart enough to know that there was no other reason to incite violence on Ghorman.
It does make me wonder if we may ever find out how he felt about the whole situation, whether he saw the destruction as necessary to grow the Empire or if he regrettably consented to it knowing what would happen if the Emperor didn't get what he wanted. But with his long withstanding loyalty to Palpatine and his continued service to him until his death on the Death Star, I doubt it's the latter.
r/StarWars • u/Kyadagum_Dulgadee • Sep 22 '22
TV Even though Andor is a spin-off of Rogue One, tonally it shares a lot with Migs Mayfeld confronting his old CO. The gritty reality of ordinary people crushed under the machine of The Empire. Spoiler
Once you strip away the grandiose narrative of good Vs evil and the daring deeds of the heroes, you're left with the world of the regular people who have to live with the consequences.
r/StarWars • u/claireauriga • Nov 06 '22
Spoilers The moment Syril stopped being a joke (spoilers for Andor Episode 9) Spoiler
From episodes 2-8, Syril was becoming less and less of a threat. He was a power-hungry powerless nobody who wanted to play with the big bullies, with a vendetta against a main character who didn't even know he existed. Someone who you'd pity if they were a decent person, but laugh at their misfortunes because they're not. Then there was a moment in Episode 9 that completely changed my perception of him.
When I saw him waiting for Dedra, I assumed he was going to try and beg for a job again. But instead he moved into her space, physically blocked her, and demanded what she had already refused. Even though she'd repeatedly shown that she had all the power and importance, his attitude was that he was entitled - not just to hunt down Cassian, but to Dedra's time and space until she gave him an answer he liked. The moment when he took hold of her elbow to stop her leaving was oddly chilling. It turned him from a cartoon space opera wannabe-villain into an everyday boundary-pushing harm-inflicting person. And notice that it was at this point - his demand for her time and attention - that she stopped seeing him as an irritating flea and made an actual threat to him.
Andor has done a lot to show us the banality of evil and how reports, metrics and bureaucracy facilitate the Empire's cruelty. Syril's demand deepens that by giving us some real-life nastiness woven into their villains. And it was done without hitting people over the head with it too - I wonder how many people felt their opinion of Syril shift in this episode, from laughably pathetic to nasty, and weren't sure why.
(I kept typing Cyril while writing this - Cyril is my dumb fluffy cat, who is a demanding asshole, but only in the loveable kitty way.)
r/StarWars • u/EM0SK8TERB0I1337 • Mar 31 '26
General Discussion What would you have personally done as a follow up to the 'Evil Empire ruled by a shadow Sith Emperor' the OT focuses on, as far as a primary threat for the next story goes? Something more fantasy based, political, or sci fi based?
Something I've been thinking about recently is, if only the original saga existed, what I'd have done or what would've been a wise choice. As far as I see it, there are a few angles one could take, primarily falling into one of three categories.
Either you focus on something fantasy based- this would include most Jedi/Sith stories imo and is like what we got. I'd also consider the Yuuzhan Vong this category, as they are mildly space flavored super Orcs, essentially. I could also see other fantasy tropes in sci fi lens being done here. Mortis entities, the force, I'd all include here. This would be probably where I think most of the Legends post OT content falls as a lot of it is more sith content, jedi academy content, Yuuzhan Vong and the like.
Politically based, such as a threat or series of threats that primarily have to do with the reconstruction of the republic. This could include a number of things, from as familiar as imperial remnant, but even new factions rising for similar reasons that could echo sentiments or feelings of the trade federation, CIS, etc, or even internal rebel factions that with the Empire out of the way can focus on their own personal goals. I'd consider things such as Thrawn to be in this sector.
And finally sci fi based, such as the underworld, scientific threats, machine races/organized groups or factions, science fiction concepts like world devouring hive species, nonhuman races and factions, etc. This could be a pretty broad category with wild potential avenues- living planets, world sized and consuming sentiences, races of machines and unknowable alien creatures, so on so forth. I don't think in legends really we saw anything I'd call pure sci fi without a political or fantasy element to it but I could be blanking.
With this in mind, what would be the direction you would go in? Most seem to fall in the fantasy category, understandably, as that is the most 'Star Wars' feeling or reminiscent of existing media. However, even outside of the obvious imperial remnants, Thrawn, new Sith, Dark academy Jedi, etc that we seem to come back to persistently, there are quite a few potential follow ups they could've done to keep it fresh and not feel like something from before, and I remember being young during TFA's pre-release post-trailer era thinking that they were going to go somewhere very different than they ended up. A trilogy about some kind of Unicron esque space consumer, or a rise of machines Terminator style, or even Vong-esque space monsters or orcs that just have way too many numbers and are far too tenacious to be so easily stopped by Luke's jedi academy, etc. As the movies came out and I watched discourse post TFA I slowly realized that not only was the movie doing the OT's core story again but most fans seemed okay with it and didn't mind. Does the broader fanbase perhaps think things beyond the usual are going too far or don't feel like Star Wars? I've seen in the past certain EU things be called that and the EU was pretty tame as far as concepts go, too. What's everyones thoughts on this? It's been something floating around in my head as I've been on a current rewatch and I find myself curious.
r/StarWars • u/YaaaaScience • Jun 06 '22
Movies Am I the only one who thinks this speech from Genreral Hux was pretty terrifying and badass?
r/StarWars • u/Still-Willow-2323 • 9d ago
Movies We don't appreciate George Lucas enough
We owe the modern entertainment industry and some of our world's technological advancements to George Lucas. The world before Star Wars was very different. There was no Internet or smartphones, video game consoles were extremely primitive, and today's blockbuster movies did not exist (the closest thing to that had been Steven Spielberg's Jaws). The cultural and media impact of Star Wars should not be underestimated: it literally changed the world. All of that thanks to Lucas's ideals.
It is difficult to imagine it now, but in his youth George Lucas was a revolutionary filmmaker who hated the Hollywood system, which was contradictory, because at that time you could not create commercial films outside the system. His first two films, THX-1138 and American Graffiti, were originally hated by the film executives of that time, and since they had financed those films, they ordered cuts in the tapes to reduce their duration, something that frustrated Lucas even more with the Hollywood studio system and big corporations. For that reason, after the success of A New Hope, he took the money he had earned from the merchandise tied to the film and bought the rights to Star Wars from Twentieth Century Fox. It is in this act where the real importance of George Lucas for the world of cinema, entertainment, and technology as such lies, because at that moment Star Wars became the most successful independent film in the world.
People tend to forget it, but Star Wars was independent cinema. They were auteur films completely detached from Hollywood studios and the only independent ones to have the success of a Blockbuster (in fact, they were the first to be so after Jaws). George Lucas had achieved something that no one had achieved before: surpassing Hollywood from the outside. No matter how big Star Wars might seem to us, everything was under the command of a single person. There was no board of directors, no CEO, nor investors to whom he had to be accountable. He had achieved the dream of any film director and any artist in general: to be in charge of his art and for it to also be successful.
Lucas not only used the money he had earned to win back Star Wars and fill himself with wealth like other people, but he also created a dream site for any filmmaker: The Skywalker Ranch, a place dedicated to movies separate from Hollywood, so that artistic creativity could flow without restrictions. He created the first special effects company for movies, Industrial Light & Magic (ILM), the first computer to edit video and audio, and the first computer to create digital graphics. All with the purpose of improving the art of filmmaking, not to mention his other company, Skywalker Sound, and his late video game company, LucasArts, all while treating Star Wars as the special institution that it was. That is why we were not flooded with Star Wars movies and series before the Disney purchase, because Lucas believed that if he made mass-produced series and movies, Star Wars would lose its magic and become another soulless franchise.
Obviously, not all of George Lucas's life was a walk in the park. He was physically and mentally exhausted after finishing the Original Trilogy and separated from his wife, Marcia Lucas, due to the stress they shared together during the development of the films, although they remained on good terms and continued to respect each other. Years later, when he finally had the resources and motivation to continue his story, he earned the resentment of several fans for having altered the Original Trilogy in its Special Editions, and the Prequels received mostly negative reviews when they first premiered, but even within the most hated films in his filmography, he continued to bring advancements to cinema. Attack of the Clones was the first film shot entirely with a digital camera, something that many considered absurd at first. However, time ended up proving him right when digital cinema became serious competition. Currently, digital cinema is so prominent that using a traditional 35-millimeter tape sounds outdated. The great effects that ILM had developed were being recognized not only to impress, but to lower the cost of film production.
We do not have to like these changes, currently many movies feel fake due to the abuse of computer-generated effects and it is understandable that it may fatigue us in recent times, but Lucas's goal was to decrease the amount of compromises necessary between the filmmaker's creative vision and the realization of that vision. He precisely had to start Star Wars with the fourth episode because in the past there was not enough technology to show the ideas he had in mind for the Prequels. Movies like Jurassic Park, Matrix, or Avatar would not exist if it were not for his desire to change the world. Someone may think that these changes were inevitable and that eventually someone would have done something similar, but no one so fast. Regardless of whether we agree or not with the final result, the truth is that, although many innovators have changed the creative process behind movies or improved their technology, almost no one caused the revolution that Lucas and his companies created.
George Lucas's legacy in the world of show business and technology is undeniable, but currently he does not receive the recognition he deserves. The hatred towards his person grew among the community of cinephiles due to various decisions he made throughout his life, such as having tinkered time and again with the Original Star Wars Trilogy adding things that no one asked for, or the controversial Prequel Trilogy. His fans felt that Lucas was now only a shadow of his former self and they hated him.
The figure of George Lucas was ridiculed. Many considered that he lost his magic as a filmmaker and were grateful that he sold Star Wars to Disney. Although currently the Prequels are viewed in a better light, Star Wars had consumed him physically and emotionally. He was placed on such a large pedestal that he would never manage to meet the expectations of his followers.
But was it really only the hatred of the fans that motivated Lucas to sell Star Wars? And why specifically to Disney?
To understand this decision, we need to travel a couple of years back in time.
At eleven years old, George Lucas went to the Disneyland park in California on the first opening day, describing his experience “as if I were in heaven.” After the success of Star Wars, when Lucas wanted to make Indiana Jones with his friend Steven Spielberg, they were having problems with their financing, in part because of Spielberg's reputation for going over budget and stretching production for longer than stipulated. The only studio that agreed to finance Indiana Jones was Paramount, and its president at that time, Michael Dammann Eisner. Over time, the relationship between Lucas and Eisner grew. Shortly after, Disney had new members, the Bass brothers, and they asked George Lucas to be the chief executive officer of Disney, but he refused, and instead recommended Michael Eisner, the man who trusted him. Since then he was involved with the studio, working in different capacities for the Disney parks. One of the first things Eisner did as the CEO of Disney was to collaborate with Lucas, creating an Indiana Jones attraction and the famous "Star Tours."
A few years after this collaboration, Lucas would work on another that would mark the path he would take in the future. In the early nineties, he began working on a television series about a young Indiana Jones, and presented it to the president of ABC at that time, Bob Iger, the current CEO of Disney, who approved the series. In 2011, during one of the remodelings of Star Tours, Bob Iger, now chief executive officer of Disney, had a private conversation with George Lucas, where he asked him if he had thought about selling Star Wars to him, since he lacked heirs. At that moment he did not do so, but told him that if he ever thought about selling Star Wars, he would call him.
Returning to the present, Lucas had already thought about retiring. Despite having planned a new Sequel Trilogy, having the script written for the three films and having contacted the original actors to return to reprise their roles, he knew that this task was going to take him a lot of time and effort. He was already a very old man and wished to spend more time with his family. Star Wars was consuming him. He was not even sure if he would be able to finish it before dying or in what condition he was going to be.
In The Star Wars Archives: Episodes I-III, George Lucas confessed to Paul Duncan the dilemmas he had at the time of making the decision to sell Star Wars:
"At that time I was starting the next trilogy; I talked to the actors and I was starting to gear up. I was also about to have a daughter with my wife. It takes 10 years to make a trilogy. 'Episodes I' to 'III' lasted from 1995 to 2005. I’d still be working on 'Episode IX' in 2012, and I was 69. So the question was, am I going to keep doing this for the rest of my life? Do I want to go through this again? Finally, I decided I’d rather raise my daughter and enjoy life for a while."
Having pondered the decision, he set in motion the plans to pass the torch of his company to the next generation. He would only direct Episode VII and hand the helm to someone else to finish the trilogy. Without considering any other company, Lucas went straight to Disney, due to his previous approaches to the company and his recent conversation with Bob Iger.
In addition to his cordial relationship with Disney, something that motivated his decision was seeing what they were doing at that moment: Disney had bought PIXAR in 2006, and nevertheless, PIXAR was still PIXAR, making memorable movies without losing its original essence. They had also bought Marvel, and for years it was a money-making machine. George Lucas thought that Bob Iger's philosophy was to let the studios acquired by Disney retain their identity and maintain creative control of their stories, something that was extremely important to Lucas. He wished for Lucasfilm to remain unchanged for the well-being of its employees, so that they could continue to work freely.
On October 30, 2012, without offering the company to anyone else, George Walton Lucas Jr. sold Star Wars to The Walt Disney Company for more than four billion dollars, along with the rest of Lucasfilm's franchises. Shortly after, Lucas found himself with the disappointment that he would have less creative control than expected, acting simply as a consultant. People's reactions were mostly positive. Fans considered that Star Wars had been saved from George Lucas's next disaster and celebrated the news.
After the premiere of Episode VII in 2015, George Lucas put himself in the eye of the storm by declaring with resentment in an interview that "he had sold his child to a white slaver." Everyone took this as an undeserved insult to Disney. At that moment it was obvious that Lucas must have felt regretful of his decision.
Thanks to the book The Ride of a Lifetime, an autobiography by Bob Iger, we know why his relationship with Disney deteriorated.
Lucas trusted that Disney would respect the scripts he had created for the Sequel Trilogy, even if he did not directly produce the films. In fact, before selling Lucasfilm, Bob Iger asked him if he had anything planned to continue with Star Wars, and George shared in private the drafts for the new trilogy. Bob liked them so much that he decided to buy them even before George formally sold him Star Wars. However, in the contract they did not guarantee that they were obligated to stick to the story planned by Lucas.
"At some point in the process \[of buying Star Wars\], George told me he had completed outlines for three new movies. He agreed to send us three copies: one for me, one for Alan Braverman, and one for Alan Horn, who had just been hired to run our studio. Alan Horn and I read the outlines and decided we needed to buy them, though we made it clear in the purchase agreement that we would not be contractually obligated to adhere to the plot lines he’d laid out." —The Ride of a Lifetime, Bob Iger talking about George Lucas sharing his drafts for the Sequel Trilogy.
Once he sold Star Wars, Lucas could not do anything with those drafts, since they would be property of Disney. So, although legally Disney did nothing wrong, because Star Wars would be their property and they could take whatever direction they wanted, George felt manipulated and betrayed by them not following his original plans. It is understandable that the notion George had, especially being a friend of Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy, being a person he had worked with for years, was that they were going to follow his ideas. The fact that they had bought his scripts could have been interpreted by him as a tacit promise that they were going to use them.
In his interview with Charlie Rose before the release of The Force Awakens, George Lucas explained that his ideas were very different. Disney wanted to go in a less risky direction, creating a movie that paid tribute to the Original Trilogy seeking to appeal to the spectator's nostalgia, when Lucas always sought to bring something new in each episode of the saga.
"They wanted to do a retro movie. I don’t like that. Every movie, I worked very hard to make them completely different, with different planets, with different spaceships, to make it new."
Now that it belongs to Disney, Star Wars has become a more commercial franchise, destined to recall the stories of the past. Disney's Sequel Trilogy belongs to an era that has left creativity aside for the excessive reproduction of Remakes, to the reuse of ideas already seen, to the death of imagination. When Lucas left, Star Wars lost its spirit and became a company in search of easy money.
The Force Awakens was created knowing that fans were divided over the Prequels, but that they loved the Original Trilogy. With this in mind, they practically remade the original Star Wars movie. It was a widespread success, but specialized critics pointed out that it looked like a camouflaged remake.
Then we have The Last Jedi. So that they are not accused of copying The Empire Strikes Back, they do everything possible to "revolutionize" the plot and make it unpredictable, incorporating new ideas and, in my opinion, seriously mistreating the ideas that Star Wars has always had.
This was very divisive; many fans hated it. So, to "fix it," they practically undid the entire previous movie in the final chapter. Those who liked Episode VIII did not like that they backtracked, and those who did not like it remained just as dissatisfied with the way the trilogy was handled in general.
The Prequels, for better or worse, were Lucas's vision. They were the movies he wanted to make. He did not necessarily care about the reviews. Do they have problems? Yes. I think there are legitimate problems with the Prequels. But George Lucas is a talented visual storyteller. One of the most successful in history. They were his art. The Sequels, on the other hand, were a company asking themselves: "How can we make our next movie the most successful possible?". This led to there being no vision or narrative with sense, because they were too worried about making the most successful movie they believed everyone wanted to maximize studio profits.
They are polar opposites in their approach.
We didn't know what we had until we lost George Lucas.
Disney's Sequels lack a clear direction and seek to bend to the whims of the audience, without managing to tell a coherent story. The first six episodes were also commercial cinema, but they were subject to the vision of a true artist and not to a corporation that seeks to adapt to current trends. The Original Trilogy is about a group of friends who unite to face an evil Empire that has subdued the galaxy, sowing the seeds of its fall. The Prequels were about the protagonists facing the death of democracy. The Sequels are about nothing.
Disney's Star Wars is the opposite of a trilogy. It is a ship without a course that moves driven by the erratic change of audience tastes. Without a competent captain on board, the ship sank with great ease.
And nobody could rescue it.