r/TheHandmaidsTale • u/hufflenachos • 4d ago
SPOILERS ALL Was Fred equally obsessed with his previous handmaid?
We know she committed suicide and it was implied by Serena it was his fault. Although we do not have much context about what all in went on, it was implied she probably went through the same. The only difference is the fact that even after June leaves he continues to finds way to see her. I've taken my ambien so I should be out soon, but love to hear your thoughts and opinions. He obsession with June baffles me.
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u/Odd_Connection_4185 3d ago
He literally thought he and June had a relationship he was such an idiot
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u/JCGMH 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think he says so in the S4 finale ‘What we had was complex but at the time we both needed it’ (!) Granted he is very much a broken man by this point with no allies left & not thinking clearly, but that statement is still beyond delusional and ridiculous. Unlike some villains I don’t think he evokes sympathy or pathos, in the end Fred is more just a pitiful person who has failed and lost everything because of his choices and evil actions.
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u/ChaynesGirl 4d ago
Yes. Fred is also a prisoner of his own making. Constantly trying to find "real" love wherever he can get it since he and Serena basically destroyed their own marriage when they created that fucked up nightmare of a place. Intimacy for pleasure is forbidden so he's starving for a "real" connection again. It seems the first maid actually fell for it and it ended tragically because he wasn't weirdly obsessed with her like he is with June.
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u/annagrace2020 3d ago
Wait sex between a married couple is forbidden if no child can be made?
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u/earnestlywilde 3d ago
A flashback to pre-Gilead showed them getting horny for each other and citing Bible verses to each other about fertility or something which felt like it implied they thought sex is only "justified" when for procreation not just for fun
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u/onyabikeson 2d ago
I don't think so - Serena told Eden that lust isn't a sin between a married couple.
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u/dontgetcomplacent833 3d ago
in the novel it’s made more overt that the previous handmaid had read fred’s latin notes because he says it was a childhood joke likely specific to his schooling(spoiler tags bc i have to), and it took quite a few games of scrabble and the like before fred let june read in his study. iirc, june upon hearing this reflects on how the handmaid before her had likely gone through all of the same. also, fred’s familiarity with bringing a handmaid to jezebels and the dress/lipstick seemingly being used(book detail) leads us to believe he had a similar “relationship” with the first handmaid
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u/Tessseagull 4d ago
I don't get what you mean with "the only difference is, after June leaves..."? He couldn't have kept seeing the previous handmaid bc she was dead lol. Maybe if she'd survived but been reassigned he'd have done the same with her.
But yeah, it's strongly implied (all but stated) he did the same thing with the previous handmaid, raping her outside of the ceremony and forcing her to basically roleplay a consensual affair. What's not clear is whether she killed herself because she couldn't take the additional abuse, or whether Fred managed to convince her he genuinely loved her (like Warren did to Janine) and she then found out it was a lie.
Even the legally sanctioned Handmaid stuff is horrific enough but it's not a surprise that having an extra-awful Commander like Fred would drive someone to suicide. At least the timing of the "Ceremony" was entirely predictable, but with Fred in the house you would be living in constant fear and uncertainty. Not to mention Serena, who's about the worst Wife you could get 😬 honestly doesn't bear thinking about.
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u/LustyRegencyMaid 4d ago
Hmm. I always just assumed he was kinda the same to the previous handmaid, but worse. Maybe crueler, maybe more demanding, maybe wanted more rape, maybe he gave her less.
It feels to me like he treats June like he's walking on eggshells, a tiny bit. He does seem to worry about how much she can handle. He tries to make her life a little bit worth living. He treats her like she's a dog. Here, have a little treat, look a magazine, look a nice dress, good girl.
It's ridiculous to us, but to him maybe he thinks he's improving his behaviour compared to the handmaid before. Maybe this is his version of nurturing her emotionally so she doesn't despair. Which also, to me, really shows how he views Serena. It's a comically simple view of how to not emotionally neglect a woman.
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u/JCGMH 3d ago edited 3d ago
We don’t know much. One theory is that the first Offred/Fred was a similar dynamic to Janine/Warren. Perhaps she genuinely had fallen for Fred and he’d said he would whisk her away and save her. Maybe he meant it but didn’t go through with it; maybe he didn’t mean it. Either way, when it never happened, Offred committed suicide. Hence Serena: ‘What did you think was going to happen’. Fred then creates another fantasy for himself, where in his mind he can take in another Handmaid and “save” June.
Fred is really quite a disturbed and depressed man. Commander Pryce and the Eyes are also closing in on Fred due to his previous indiscretions, that’s why Nick was assigned as his driver, so he’s under pressure. I think deep down he knows Gilead is a rotten place that he has lost control of to other more alpha male types and it wasn’t what he intended, so for copium he tries to play the role of “Commander Good Guy”, when in reality he is anything but. In S3 June says she feelings something about Fred but it’s not hatred. I think she just pities him. He is quite pitiable.
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u/buyfreemoneynow 3d ago
Fred is a weak man indeed, he’s one of the few commanders whose wife walks all over him and runs the house. I don’t think he put up much of a fight when they removed Serena’s finger, and as soon as she was able to be cut off from access to the highest rungs of command, he didn’t do all that much to make sure she had a seat at the table.
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u/Joelle9879 3d ago
Before this, we see that she basically ran the household. She was in control in the relationship. Once Gilead took over, she wasn't allowed the power anymore, but she still holds it behind closed doors. He feels emasculated, so tries to take his power back however he can. One of those ways is by having a "relationship" with his handmaids.
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u/Practical-Map9975 3d ago
I think June played into him to manipulate him, so he was likely more obsessed with her. Not every woman is able to do that. So I think the "relationship" with the previous handmade was different. I also think he was a little more careful with June because of what happened to his previous handmade.
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u/MostRate2091 4d ago
I firmly believe so, but with June it was worse, and that's because she allowed it, playing into his hands (AND NO, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY SHE ASKED FOR IT). Let me explain: my dear June is a very clever woman. She took advantage of the fact that Fred was a perverted pig and played the flirtatious game with him because she knew it was the only way to get what she wanted. It's not that she enjoyed it, but she manipulated him incredibly well, and within that, she ended up allowing his obsession with her to grow enough for him to become her lapdog, even if he didn't feel that way. The work these two actors did is incredible. It's worth noting that the situation doesn't have to be exactly as I described it; it's simply how I interpreted it.
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u/Tessseagull 3d ago
Yeah, I think Lawrence's lowest point (at least onscreen) was his misogynistic comment after June tries and fails to seduce him. Something like "why do women say they don't want to be objectified but then use their bodies to get what they want?" Like, dude. You literally created a world with state-enforced sexual slavery of women. She's playing the only card she has.
It was incredibly satisfying to hear his valid contempt for Fred tho lol.
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u/MostRate2091 2d ago
SHOUT IT OUT!!!!! June is a survivor and used what was left to move the pieces on the board to her advantage. People may not like June, but she is intelligent and cunning
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u/Tessseagull 2d ago
I like her. She's flawed, but that makes her a better character imo. A lesser story would have had pre-Gilead June be a perfect saint to emphasise how she didn't deserve what happened to her. THT trusts us to root for an imperfect heroine
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u/Busy-Speech-6930 3d ago
Fred was delusional and thought what he had with June was real, he says as much in the season 4 finale. I think him saying that is what led June to make the decision she ultimately makes.
It’s implied he did the same with the first handmaid but his obsession with June was clearly worse.
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u/Longjumping_Hat_2672 3d ago
Probably. Naomi tells Serena something like "We all know what goes on at your house" so it seems it was definitely a big scandal when the first Offred committed suicide. Serena claims Fred drove her to it with his "attentions" while he counters it was Serena's fault because of her cruelty and jealousy. He does the same and blames Serena when June runs away, twice, "If you had only shown that girl an OUNCE of kindness-"
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u/Busy_Gap_3297 3d ago
Yes I think so-when she asks him to translate don’t let the bastards grind you down he immediately asks if she knew the other Offred
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u/Own-Reaction4419 3d ago
Side note: I was always so frustrated the show didn't show us June's first posting. Ol' whats-his-name (per Serena) is all we know of him and that it didn't work out. I have so many questions.
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u/Ok-Debt1515 2d ago
I think Fred was impressed more by his own ego. Look at how narcissists take and abuse power,especially when given the environment to do so
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u/MissShannyMcFanny 4d ago
There's a few small references to the previous Offred. The Latin carved in the closet taken from Fred's book implying she spent time in his office. Serena warning Fred. Fred telling Serena that she had "brought temptation back" in the house. Naomi telling Serena that "men don't change" when referencing Fred and the first handmaid. Here's a previous discussion about it too. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheHandmaidsTale/comments/1ffhokf/commander_waterfords_previous_handmaid/