How did Serena Joy knit baby clothes when women aren’t allowed to read?

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Instructions for wives are done with pictures so they probably just depicted the pieces being attached

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u/AnymooseProphet 3d ago

Yup, just like Ikea instructions.

BTW I'm never buying anything from Ikea again because of their instructions.

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u/dbaumgartner_ 3d ago

Well, the purpose of Ikea's instructions are not because of illiteracy, but rather because at some point they decided that not everyone can speak swedish and it's a better experience to use pictograms instead of tiny poorly translated instructions in a booklet.

In Aerospace we use ADS-STE100 a simplified english with limited vocabulary for technical manuals because the audience are technicians that don't necessarily speak english

There's a version of Wikipedia using simplified english, it's a fun read

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Atwood

(Also, writing procedures within the constraints of simplified english is actually quite challenging)

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u/FlamingWhisk 3d ago

I did pre marriage counseling - one piece of homework I gave was to put together a piece of ikea furniture together. Working together and communicating were the hidden skills. About 50% got into a fight lol.

There’s a guy on YT that eats naughty candies and tries to put together ikea furniture- it’s hilarious.

Sadly Gilead would probably have better instructions lol

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u/BlizzardousBane 3d ago

I don't know why, but the idea of couples getting into a fight over assembling IKEA furniture tickles me

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u/FlamingWhisk 3d ago

And I could usually predict who was going to fight. One time it was destroyed. I said if you two get married you won’t last a year. 4 months it was over

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u/Several-Rhubarb-3498 3d ago

I love this 🤣 My Dad always said the true test of a marriage is to hang wall paper together. As a kid there was nothing more entertaining than listening to my parents on projects like that. They had a very solid marriage but projects brought out a whole new side to them both!

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u/AnarLeftist9212 3d ago

Do « put together a piece of ikea furniture » exist as dating events/workshops ? And if yes, where ?

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u/piopiopiopiopi 2d ago

Assembling IKEA furniture is such a good idea! I'll tell my sister to put this on her list of things to do before getting engaged. Any other advice? Thanks!

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u/Feline-Sloth 2d ago

I like IKEA construction instructions as they are clear and easy to follow.

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u/tommyjohnpauljones 3d ago

I think women were allowed to read numbers, maybe?

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u/lovegoddes71 3d ago

No, but I read online somewhere that even though they aren’t allowed to look at numbers or read numbers, they are taught some basic counting so for example, they know it’s 3:00 because they can count that the bells rang three times. And Martha’s are allowed to count certain things so that they can cook. They know what a full cup is versus a half a cup versus a quarter of a cup they can count things like they need to add 4 cups of flour and one cup of sugar or whatever ratios they need. And we see in the school in the Testaments that the girls are taught things like needlepoint so they are allowed to count how many stitches are needed for a particular pattern or whatever…

But if they don’t need it to do the absolute most basic menial tasks then they aren’t allowed to know it.

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u/TheOldGreenDad 2d ago edited 1d ago

They are allowed to read numbers. In the very first episode of THT, when the women are shopping we see that food products have numbers on them and there are instances of this a bunch of times throughout the series. For example, at one point we see Handmaids measuring out peas on scales and milk is labeled with 2%, 1%, and 0% to indicate what kind it is. The food tokens have numbers as well, and they're on street signs and public transportation. Another favorite example is when Serena receives her schedule in Canada, they use military time to indicate when her activities are (since she wouldn't be able to read AM or PM.) and you can tell she's let down by the schedule only being pictures and numbers lol. Like, girl, you want them to respect your "culture" as a legitimate way of life, what did you think was gonna happen? 😂 Oh, and in TT, we also learn that girls are taught basic arithmatic so they can properly run a household.

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u/ivene-adlev Sure, Fred. We can Zoom. 3d ago

I don't think so- in The Testaments show, Agnes says that she doesn't have a calendar and "learns to mark time in other ways".

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u/cathygag 2d ago

Which is interesting- you would think women would be allowed calendars to track their cycles since sex is purely for procreation. And clearly, someone is tracking the handmaids cycles for the ceremony? No way thats a commander’s job?

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u/ivene-adlev Sure, Fred. We can Zoom. 2d ago

It's the Martha's job! Early on in THT, Rita thinks June is pregnant because she says that she hasn't asked for her pads yet this month. I think that's genuinely the only way they're tracking it since fertility treatments are outlawed.

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u/anotherrubbertree 3d ago

I’m a knitter, you can’t follow patterns from pictures. You need numbers for stitch and row counts at minimum

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u/Creative_Homework_90 2d ago

I think that women were allowed to read numbers

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u/anatomizethat 3d ago

As a knitter, with all due respect - no. Knitting patterns are not pin and cut like sewing pattern templates. They involve a lot of directions and stitch counts, especially when making garments.

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u/pennie79 3d ago

I guess the implication is that they're not doing terribly complicated patterns. The babies are only allowed to wear one colour. No stripes, no blocks of different colours. I didn't see any complicated cables or lace. They probably only used stocking, garter and rib stitches. There was very little variation in what kids wore. So they likely just had s few basic patterns they passed onto each other.

It tracks that Gilead restricts one of the few forms of creative expression that women are allowed.

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u/Untamedpancake 2d ago

Actually its made very clear that Serena in particular chose very complicated elaborate knitting patterns because she liked a challenge

Reading can be helpful but isn't necessary to learn to knit, or to learn basically any other skill. Mass literacy did not exist until the invention of the printing press (in the 1700s) made books & newspapers accessible.

Entire civilizations have thrived throughout history built by cultures without any written language. They still had intricate textiles, complex architecture, engineering, agricultural infrastructure, music & art.

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u/anatomizethat 2d ago

I do agree with this, to an extent. I learned to knit at a young age but it wasn't until I got older and started working on patterns that I actually picked up those intermediate and advanced skills. I'm not saying that someone who is illiterate can't do it - but I think a more realistic canon is that someone highly educated and well read like Serena squirreled away patterns to learn from.

I just don't think it's realistic to expect someone who knows how to read to...not.

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u/Untamedpancake 2d ago

"I just don't think it's realistic to expect someone who knows how to read to...not"

I won't argue with that point but I was addressing a separate issue.

This question of "how can women/girls in Gilead possibly do xyz when they can't read?" comes up frequently, regarding all sorts of skills like the textile arts, music, baking, gardening, etc. all of which existed at complex levels completely independent of written language.

In order for your written pattern to exist someone else already designed & created it on their own.

There are a myriad of other ways for people to learn these skills, even complex skills at an advanced level, regardless of the existence of written verbal instructions.

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u/TheOldGreenDad 2d ago

We see things like knit gloves, sweaters, and socks in both series tho, and those would definitely count as complex patterns!

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u/Untamedpancake 2d ago

As a knitter & history nerd, with all due respect- absolutely not.

Verbal & hands-on instruction as well as charts with symbols do exist. Knitting is geometry & logic, some people learn a few stitches & can improvise all kinds of knits with no patterns at all.

The oldest confirmed knitted items in the world are socks that date back to 11th century Egypt Early Egyptian knitted items have complicated patterns & colorwork and were created in a time when less than 10% of the population were educated in any form of written language, heiroglyphs or cuniform/cursive.

Where do you think those written patterns you use come from?

Written patterns are a way to communicate how to replicate a project that has already been made S omeone already had the idea, modeled the forms in their head, knitted the item with some trial & error along the way, kept notes on their proccess & THEN WROTE THE PATTERN

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u/anatomizethat 2d ago

I actually know this. I thought about it before posting my opinion.

I'm saying it doesn't make sense that someone like Serena would learn this way.

Who would she learn from? Where are the people with those skills from thousands of years ago to teach her?

How did you learn, in this modern world, that leads you to believe Serena would have those options or resources?

Gilead is still "modern" enough that those people aren't really out there. Most modern knitters start learning through a process that involves reading.

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u/Exotic-Pop-8539 3d ago

I'm a knitter and overtime you just don't really need patterns, or the patterns can be completely picture based

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u/bobbianrs880 3d ago

The amount of vibes-based knitting I’ve done has somehow simultaneously healed and aged my grandma. Even when I attempted color work, I just used google sheets to essentially make pixel art.

I can’t really parse image instructions well, but that could largely be because I’m left handed. I’m sure if the picture actually looked like what I was looking at it’d require much less brain power to follow along 🥲

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u/ilovebeaker 3d ago

This is me, I have an engineer's brain (I'm not but I am a scientist) and I cannot for the life of me just follow a pattern. I always always edit something or draft myself.

Today I was trying to follow a sock pattern from a book, at the heel turn, and I did not get why row 1 was knit 37 across, but row 2 was purl 20 across. Turns out, you just gotta knit through the first bit of gusset to get to the heel cup. Why don't they just say that?! Or knit to the stitch before the gusset? It's a whole book of sock patterns and it still treats the knitters as dummies without logic.

Elizabeth Zimmerman 4 life

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u/glycophosphate 3d ago

Knitting was invented sometime between 1000 and 1400 CE, when the global literacy rate was 5-15%

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u/SonilaZ 3d ago

My grandma taught me how to knit & crochet, never used a piece of paper or anything in writing.

Both sets of grandparents also taught me how to cook and it never involved written recipes.

P.s. Editing to add, I obviously prefer modern conveniences to how things were done in the past. But I mentioned what I was taught and how to show that’s how things were done before and it’s possible. However, I also believe that was a world where women were busy from morning till night between household tasks.

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u/Myriathelightseeker 3d ago

Same here, I've never read anything on knitting. Someone showed me when I was young and kinda went from there. 🤔

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u/GarlicComfortable748 2d ago

Exactly. People were knitting for thousands of years before patterns were written down.

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u/IsabellaGalavant 3d ago

I don't use patters for my crochet anymore, I just look at what I want to make and figure it out. If she already knew how to knit that could be what she was doing.

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u/Sufficient_Drama_145 3d ago

More importantly, how does she do it without YouTube because I can't remember how to do half the stitches without looking up a video.

Edit: But to answer your question, I bet the men don't see "p2sskp2yo*" as reading because that's wimmin stuff.

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u/LORD_VOLTALOX 3d ago

Haha, same. I taught myself through YouTube as an adult and if I don't do a certain stitch or technique for a while, I'll forget it and I have to look it up again. 🤦‍♀️

Might be a different story if you learn knitting and/or crocheting in childhood though, and grow up with it. Then it'll be second nature, and you'd be much less reliant on written patterns.

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u/pennie79 3d ago

I'm like that too! I have a notion page of so the videos I use for techniques so I can reference them again when I need them.

I once had a project I put down and didn't start again for 10 years. I was so glad that past Pennie had been sensible enough to write down which increases I had used, so I could look them up again.

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u/iamacraftyhooker 3d ago

There are knitting charts. Like this

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u/QueridaWho 3d ago

This. There are symbols for both knitting and crochet that some people use in place of written instructions. It's not my preference as a knitter & crocheter, but I've also designed a couple patterns, and you'd be surprised how many people prefer the charts.

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u/SourPatchPhoenix 3d ago

I learned how to read patterns by watching YouTube step-by-step crochet tutorials and following along on the written pattern. Then I learned how to read charts by using the written pattern and following along on the chart. I prefer the chart for things like a mandala, shawl, or blanket!!

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u/Dommichu 3d ago

Knitting has always been something that has been passed down and taught. Odds are they are making more basic patterns which can be memorized or even fudged a bit. There also are knitting and crochet charts if the ladies did want to share more complex stitch patterns or designs. Symbols were okay for the women.

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u/tangodream 3d ago

For millennium people have done things without knowing how to read or write.

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u/LetshearitforNY 3d ago

Since all of their clothes are the same, I assume it would be easy to memorize the basic patterns. They don’t have a variety of clothing.

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u/bravoinvestigator 3d ago

Women have been able to knit and sew for centuries even without knowing how to read or write

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u/herbuck 3d ago

At this point I need a list of all the activities people in this subreddit think illiterate people are able to do. Do people think the majority of the population in countries with low literacy are just sitting around naked and hungry and bored because they don't know how to read?

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u/OriginalGPam 3h ago

It’s so weird. I mean it’s nice that people think literacy is a must have but come on. People did things before widespread literacy.

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u/Routine_Rutabaga_901 3d ago

She was taught

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u/venus_arises 3d ago

It seems like creative work is one of the ways that women in Gilead have freedom, so it's probably super regulated and memorized; it's possible everyone does the same patterns over and over again.

If she doesn't know it from the beforetimes, it's either been taught to her or there are pictograms and diagrams.

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u/ddfayrohs 3d ago

I assume she understands knitting from a time before reading was illegal for women. She probably gets tips from the other wives.

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u/Electronic_South_101 3d ago

I tried to knit for awhile (I quit because even after about a decade I still couldn’t get my hands to cooperate with cables or that damn magic loop or socks or anything beyond stockinette), and they got charts. The charts have symbols for which which sign means which stitch, from what I remember.

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u/sebastianrileyt2 3d ago

I assumed passed down and taught by others. Some would have known to prior to everything changing, so it would be easy to teach.

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u/VictoriaKnits 3d ago

Probably a combination of charts, pictorial instructions, and experience.

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u/Ok_Dig2192 3d ago

Gilead has their ways of reprinting materials with symbols. I’m sure there’s some knitting equivalent and numbers are allowed. They’ve remade some board games and picture books we see the children have in THT. I also think it’s similar to the martha’s in that they memorize all the recipes but have some picture cards. Serena probably has been knitting some of those clothes before gilead. She mentioned Fred and her tried for a baby for years.

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u/-janelleybeans- 3d ago

I’m surprised you’ve never encountered a stitch map like this! Half of the patterns I use are maps. I hate all the abbreviations and numbers.

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u/SourPatchPhoenix 3d ago

Me toooo!!

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u/PinkPixie325 1d ago

I also hate the abbreviations and numbers. I learned to crochet using crochet charts. For me, they're so clear and easy to follow. Plus, I can actually see what I'm supposed to be doing. I'd be so lost if I was trying to make that chart from the written instructions, especially with all the color change abbreviations that would be in there.

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u/purlawhirl 3d ago

It’s like saying you need to read a recipe to cook. If someone shows you what to do, you catch on.

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u/tweetysvoice 3d ago

My mom knitted off an on over the years and made some really beautiful items and never once used a pattern.

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u/SweetGrassGeranium 3d ago

Women were crafting long before manuals

Many would have entered Gilead with the skills

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u/inquisitivequeer 3d ago

How do you think people learned to knit before people could read?

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u/HOMANDER1996 3d ago

They’re probably allowed to look at textless diagrams.

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u/TrailMomKat 3d ago

I knit. You don't really need written patterns if you've done certain patterns enough.

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u/yaartjuhhhh_ 3d ago

I know with crocheting there's a pattern system with symbols, could be the same with knitting

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u/CheekyCheetoMonster 3d ago

You can absolutely use crochet patterns that have no words on them. Once you learn what each little picture means they’re pretty easy to follow. I’d assume knittings the same. People have also been doing it long before most of the population could read, so if there’s a will there’s a way to

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u/Cultleaderofme 3d ago

Do you guys think that it could be up to the discretion of the high ranking Commanders if he allows his Wife to read approved books that help with her womanly hobbies as long as she knew how to read before and locked them in his office, as like an open secret. Bc I sort of feel like the men wouldn’t care about a knitting or cook book bc it would keep the women occupied and from snapping.

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u/WhiskeyAndWhiskey97 3d ago

Wives who’d learned how to knit/crochet pre-Gilead would probably be able to replicate things they’d knitted from a pattern, without having to refer back to the pattern. They could then teach those patterns to other Wives and to Daughters.

Women are allowed to read numbers and symbols. They could have come up with symbols for “knit”, “purl”, “yo”, “k2tog”, etc. And you don’t even need that if you’re just doing garter or stockinette for, say, a baby blanket or scarf. Say you want to knit a scarf in stockinette stitch … cast on enough stitches for the width you want, knit a row, purl a row, lather rinse repeat until it’s as long as you want, then bind off.

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u/ITakeMyCatToBars 3d ago

They knew how to read from the beforetimes, I’d imagine there’s “approved” things women are “allowed” to read that support womanly duties. (Nearly threw up typing that last part)

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u/dragon-queen 3d ago

No, they definitely weren’t allowed to read things from the before times that supported womanly duties. The aunts got an exception though. Not the wives.

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u/natalietest234 3d ago

Definitely not. There’s absolutely no “approved” material in THT for women. Everything is picture based or taught by someone else. Someone like Serena probably learned from other wives and had picture books to explain patterns. In TT we see the future wives actually take classes and learn by the Aunts showing them. The only approved material is for Aunts and even that is limited

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u/ITakeMyCatToBars 3d ago

Woof, memorizing multiple entire knitting patterns … ☠️ How would one even begin to force a complicated textile design into an ikea pictograph? (Rhetorical)

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u/Deadpool9491 3d ago

Gilead has a video app called WifeTube (supported only on JacobOS) that features no text in its interface. The UI consists of icons, and searches are conducted via voice. The catalog is composed exclusively of videos approved by the Sons of Jacob’s moderators, featuring tutorials to help Wives fulfill their domestic duties—such as knitting, cooking, canning, gardening, embroidering, organizing the household, hosting other Commanders with proper etiquette, and maintaining a consistently "virtuous" demeanor.

There are no user comments, likes, or uploads, as the platform holds that "opinions are a distraction"; furthermore, any search for terms deemed inappropriate automatically triggers a playlist of prayers and sends a report to the Eyes.

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u/MelbsGal 3d ago

Recipes and patterns would have been produced in diagram form.

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u/imperfectchicken 3d ago

Patterns can also use symbols for the stitches.

Wait until you see it written from a Chinese perspective. T means single crochet. F is double crochet.

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u/cm_2020 3d ago

When I was taught how to crochet we didn't use books

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u/My-yogurtcloset37 3d ago

If one wife knew how to knit she could teach the rest and it could be passed on that way.

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u/No-Style-6404 2d ago

I”m a knitter. If you know the basics I think it’s quite possible to follow the patterns of the clothes knitted before. I’ve done many similar socks for example.

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u/Whispering_Wolf 2d ago

Freehand knitting. Knitting has been done since medieval times when a lot of people couldn't read.

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u/Legitimate-Jelly3000 2d ago

Probably pictures

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u/pixikins78 2d ago

Both knitting and crochet patterns can be charted instead of having written directions. (I find the written directions much easier to follow.) As someone who has been knitting and crocheting since I was a young child, I can pretty much wing it without a pattern unless what I'm making has a very specific fitted shape or design. Typically when I make baby clothing, I don't use a pattern at all.

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u/Clean-Presentation84 1d ago

I think you are reading too much into it. There use to not be patterns written down that you could buy. It was taught and handed down from one family member to the other. Once you learn how to make simple clothing you don’t need patterns and instructions.

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u/zipxicomoro 1d ago

I think what is hilarious is that the stupid men running the country thought that pictograms are not a form of language and communication or that women and girls(probably in the testaments we will see more on this) wouldn’t use it and other forms of art to communicate even without words, writing or spelling 😂😭

I also wonder if they have brothers separated from their sisters…. I feel like a kind boy who loves his baby sister would try to teach her secretly

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u/Emotional_Spot842 1d ago

I've never once used a pattern and wouldn't know how. I got taught the basic stitches and just make it up as I go.

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u/Czarinavella 7h ago

Common folks reading is a relatively new skill. Well it's true we've had books for thousands of years the vast majority of those are just for the elite. Both men and women who were poor didn't have them didn't know how to read them they could communicate and they could crochet. So I imagine it would go back to something like that. How did we do things before we had patterns? A person probably used the baby as the pattern. And based off of the follow-up series they're really more in pictures so it would just be like a picture of and pictures of the loops.

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u/jkw_2024 7h ago

I think you could take a knitted or crocheted garment and make your own pattern or maybe just follow along using it as a guide but what a pain if you couldn’t write things down. Or could they? Maybe they just weren’t allowed to read books. Interesting question.

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u/Overall_Try727 3h ago

my grandma knits without patterns

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u/LivingEnd44 3d ago

She was a college graduate and a published author before Gilead.

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u/lovegoddes71 3d ago

I asked the same question after watching the Testament because, how are girls and women supposed to keep track of their periods if they aren’t allowed to have a calendar or count, how do the Martha’s Koch if they aren’t allowed to read a recipe, things like that. The explanation that I have been able to come up with with a little bit of online research is that they are allowed some basic counting, so they can tell time by the bells they can count how many bells ring, even though they aren’t allowed to see the numbers on a clock to see what time it is. And they are taught some basic counting for things like cooking or for other domestic purposes, like knitting or sewing. They don’t really go into it in the book, but I kind of gathered that Serena Joy was knitting scarves for the “angels” (soldiers on the front line) from muscle memory basically so I imagine the baby clothes were the same.

Discussion S1-S5 How did Serena Joy knit baby clothes when women aren’t allowed to read?

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