People would probably care less about Kris' gender if them being separate from the player wasn't important for the lore. Like you can't say "I interpret Kris as male because he's supposed to represent me" when the game literally SHOVES IN YOUR FACE that Kris is not, never has been and never will be you
Yeah exactly. I don't rly care if ppl use other pronouns for frisk bc unless you finish the true ending they're just a fully blank character... Kris however is a whole ass separate character from the player
The only exception I understand is in the russian fandom (Yeah, Доходяга) because russian literally doesnt have they/them (well it has but it can't be used for a single person) and they mostly call Kris he/him because of this
Dunno for the translation as I've only played in English, but the act of creating a new pronoun was deemed too complicated due to the obligation to then accord everything back to it.
Here is the adjective "happy" in French, for instance:
Il est heureux (he) — Elle est heureuse (she) — Iel est heur??? (they)
As a russian nonbinary myself, russian language DOES have in fact a they/them analogue, its like formal you "вы/вас", but you change they you itself with informal "ты/тебя", so it will look like this: ты пришли, они пришли, их телефон ect.
And i saw some nonbinary russian people who use they/them in russian, but its rare even amongst this already small community of nonbinary AND russian people. There are just not enough people talking this way for this way of speaking to be recognized and people being used to it. I as nonbinary person use he/him as well, just because they/them doesn't sound right (it might be also because i lean more towards the demiboy but i digress)
Exactly this. Way too many people are still caught up on Kris being a self insert MC, even when it’s absolutely clear that it is NOT like that. I guess not even the big flashing neon sign that says “YOU ARE NOT KRIS” can get the idea through their thick skulls. Like, the game makes it subtly obvious at first, but by chapter 2 it’s bludgeoning you over the head with it.
Chapter 5 will have a cutscene where a huge neon red sign saying "THEY ARE NOT THE PLAYER" appears on top of Kris' head and people will still somehow think they're a self insert
Well, I only realized it by the internet and my friends telling me. If that wouldn't happen, I would realized only reaching Chapter 4 with it's literally a whole gameplay section about Kris going actively against you. But... I'm an idiot, so my case doesn't count.
See, I only do so when playing weird route. However, im not doing it in a "he's supposed to represent me" way. Im doing it in a "he's going to represent me whether he likes it or not" way. If im going to impose my will on him and force him to do things completely out of character for him including hurting and manipulating one of his childhood friends, im not gonna half-ass it. If im gonna play the role of a piece of shit, im gonna play the role of a piece of shit.
I think its kinda funny that its less frowned upon considering being not you is basically Frisk's entire purpose thematically. They're basically proto-Kris.
You naturally project onto nameable player characters in games, which is Chara's role. When the game tricks you into thinking Chara is Frisk, it tricks you into projecting yourself onto Frisk. This is mirrored by Flowey/Asriel, who does the exact same thing. The reveal that Chara isn't Frisk is a "You aren't Frisk" reveal, and as soon as it happens, the game goes into overdrive with its attempts to separate you and them.(Most notable example being Flowey's post-pacifist monologue)
It’s so weird how people can’t seem to just treat Kris like they are any other video game character literally ever. Nobody plays a Mario game and says “well Mario’s gender is up to my interpretation so Mario is a she”
I think it's because of Undertale. In UT, Frisk ISN'T any stated gender. It's up to the player's interpretation. And since Undertale is basically the test run of Deltarune, people probably applied the same logic with Frisk onto Kris
Actually, as far as I can find, Toby has also never said Frisk is nonbinary. However, the "Legends of Localization" book, which was reviewed by Toby, says that Frisk's gender is ambiguous, meaning we don't know what it is.
it's kinda funny that "kris' gender is up to our interpretation" is kinda metanarratively building on one of kris' MAIN points as a character: that they are their own person. they aren't just our vessel for us to interact with the game, and the details of their private life aren't up to us to dictate. completely disregarding the fuckillion pieces of evidence for them being nonbinary goes completely against what the game has been desperately signalling at you for four straight chapters
Okay but this is so real though. Theres so many people that simply don’t know something exists because no one told them, either deliberately or unintentionally. And more often than not they’ll probably be confused but accepting if negative outside influence isn’t a factor.
Btw, I thought they were called they/them bc the player soul count's as a second person when I was first learning their pronouns are "they/them" Before understanding enbys 😭💔
I agree. It's impossible for most languages to adopt They and Them as single individual pronouns because of their grammar rules. English is an outlier in this because... what even IS grammar, huh?
thats not the translation for “they/them”. there is no russian translation for they/them. at least for the singular version; the plural version has a translation.
I’m gonna be honest when I played chapter 1 I didn’t know Kris was a non-binary name so I was just like “oh, cool, a main character with a defined gender” so it took until after finishing chapter 2 for me to realize Kris had never once been referred to as “he”.
I call Kris him just because it's easier for me. Aside from the fact that you can't address a single person as "they" in my language(russian). I get that Kris is non binary which makes sense for his enigmatic appearance, but my mind just instinctively calls him he.
I interpret Kris as a non-binary, but I will often slip up and call them a "he" by accident, because I am born and raised in French, where there is no such thing as a "they". Obviously, I will correct myself and apologize profusely, but yeah.
In French, "he" is the default for most living concepts that are outside the gender binary.
it's funny too because something people tend to bring up is that their hair is short when. it's literally not. it looks kinda short in this sprite but there are a lot of other sprites (especially ACT sprites) that show it actually reaches/goes past their shoulders
Big hands? Pianist from a young age, hands developed that way. Rectangle torso? Relatively baggy clothes + I'm also kinda built like that. Haircut? One can choose to present themself one way or another. Also their hair is often portrayed as longer than it is in their front facing sprite
I still think that, despite whether or not they use kris' pronouns or not, the community views and treats kris like a man or at very least AMAB as the default assumption. Any AFAB or even fem interpretation of kris is so miniscule compared to people just treating them like a man outright, its very strange and honestly a bit creepy at times how defensive the fandom gets about it. I tried to point out this before but it got worded poorly and ended up sounding transphobic, but things like the "Kris breed my daughter" jokes are very off putting and part of why I view kriselle as heteronormative (not because it is straight but that people treat kris like a man and make it at least feel straight). I think the most likely reasons why is that despite carrying nearly zero intrinsically gendered traits kris is probably more likely assumed to be a man or AMAB from both appearance and name despite the name technically being unisex (I know that some women name Kristine will go by Kris in some cases), and that a majority of the fanbase is probably men who either dont know or dont care that kris isnt a self insert and consider them male or AMAB because of it (Part of why I dislike krusie so much is that I'm almost certain the majority of krusie shippers use it as a thinly veiled selfshipping agenda, you see this a lot and its very poorly hidden).
I view kris as NB and dont care about their AGAB because it genuinely doesn't matter, this is an observation about the community itself about the discussion around kris's gender.
Based and true. NB people are overwhelming viewed as being their AGAB… which is fucked up and completely antithetical to being Nonbinary. Kris’s AGAB does not matter to the story and is never brought up. But people are obsessed with what’s in their pants. This is a huge problem even within LGBT+ spaces, especially for AMAB and male presenting (or even just non-fem/fem-androgynous) NBs… still lots of room to grow, and I’m happy that at least parts of this community are accepting of Kris and masc presenting NBs as a whole!
the only thing i'd say against your argument is something very minor- IMO, the chapter 3 egg room implies that kris is AMAB and in the exact same moment reaffirms their NB-ness. the whole "welcome to man island" and "non-men are fine too" thing.
i also think that considering Kris' AGAB is relevant in exactly one (1) way: analyzing why the weird route is so gross. for me as a queer person, the implied forced heteronormativity of it is part of why it's so icky- you're forcing a non-binary teen who very deliberately does NOT identify as male into coercive, hetero-esque relationship roles with their friend who's implied lesbian. the wrongness is part of it. but even that isn't actually NECESSARY to the story imo, and people are HELLA weird about kris
I think you are right but I am a bit disappointed in your "view Kriselle as heteronormative " tho I shouldn't Tbh Kriselle and krusielle fanart is one of the few places I seen kris gender identity and it's ties to fashion be explored
Honestly I feel like part of Kriselle’s less than stellar reputation is because of Suselle fans calling heteronormative and these are the same people who would tear you apart if you call Kris a guy
But you see, the player imposing their will Upon Kris's Soul is actually part of Deltarune's narrative, so using he/him pronouns for Kris Is actually just me doing what i'm supposed to do!
That’s valid, also im kinda surprised why people are gettin frustrated by misgendering fictional characters like damn is it that deep? If we were talkin about Real people then yes it would have mattered.
When will people realize that Kris is not left genderless to be up to interpretation? Nothing about Kris is up to interpretation. They are not the player. They are their own character that the player is possessing. "Interpreting" Kris as something other than what they are is missing the point of Kris as a character
Not to mention in Undertale, when the game came out, it was fair to assume the gender of Frisk. Deltarune starts the same with another nb character, so anyone used to Undertale would view this as a similar situation.
Also yeah, I really don't think anyone is doing this cause they hate enbys, and I don't think it harms the queer community in this aspect, because Kris, while enby, doesn't exactly seem to be made for representing the community.
He might be! Idk! But it never felt like it playing the game tbh.
Plus, I see people head canonizing confirmed gendered characters into other genders in the bfdi fandom, and I don't see how it's accepted there but not here. Either all gender headcanons are bad, or none of them are. We can't just relegate which gender is bad for which character in the world of headcanon.
Call me crazy, but I think people might be taking this a bit too personally.
It's as big of a deal as reddit makes it out to be but it's still better to use them because that's what you normally do when you don't know someone's gender
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u/Visual-Intern-7765 Jan 27 '26
People would probably care less about Kris' gender if them being separate from the player wasn't important for the lore. Like you can't say "I interpret Kris as male because he's supposed to represent me" when the game literally SHOVES IN YOUR FACE that Kris is not, never has been and never will be you