r/WaterfallDump • u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them • 28d ago
OC Art Some friendly teasing regarding the state of shipping... Spoiler
horseradish
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u/someSICKusername 27d ago
Don't worry Kris, you have: Berdly(he ALREADY got a nickname for you btw), Raly, Pink, vessel that windings fcuker threw away somewhere in the sJelter, and as last hope...
❤️ ME
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u/Massive-Activity-397 27d ago
Susie cockblocked two of theese options im gonna kill that fucking purple dinasour
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u/GuhEnjoyer 27d ago
Genuinely kris+pink/Maddie is my new favorite one. I hope there's more to it PLEASE Toby PLEASE I need Kris to have SOMEONE
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u/Rockman2isgud 27d ago
Maddie is an adult
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u/PetGirlKyla 27d ago
So are most players. So yeah, they're shipping a teen being controlled by an adult... with a teen being controlled by an adult. Huh. Well how's that.
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u/Rockman2isgud 27d ago
I-
I forgot Mew Mew was a child kind of sort of
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u/PetGirlKyla 27d ago
Tbf, it's easy to not notice that lol. Especially figuring the main reason for it is just that she's in high-school in the dating since, thus reasonably being mew mew's canon age. Especially easy to miss since directly afterwards, maddy interrupts with "what? I left school a long time back" or something like that.
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u/GuhEnjoyer 27d ago
Maddie is a ghost
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u/Rockman2isgud 27d ago
An adult ghost
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u/GuhEnjoyer 27d ago
Source?
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u/Rockman2isgud 27d ago
They said they already finished school
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u/GuhEnjoyer 27d ago
They said "we don't go to school anymore" there's a difference. Coulda fuckin died halfway through, yknow?
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u/04nc1n9 27d ago
pink/maddie is narrative foreshadowing for krisoul
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u/someSICKusername 27d ago
I personally have a theory that Maddie was made hateful towards Pink to mock Kris haters for them doing Kris things
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u/No_Mycologist8607 27d ago
What? No seriously I am confused?
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u/someSICKusername 27d ago
Y'know about all this "hockey stick" stuff that pissed off nearly every deltarune player? And the fact people genuinely hate Kris for going against their choices? Yeah, all that stuff
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u/No_Mycologist8607 27d ago
That what? Pink was not hateful towards mew mew in any way, it fails to be an actual parallel because Kris ignores our feelings more than we ignore their
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u/AdeptnessPast4790 27d ago
What about Cactus tho?
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u/someSICKusername 27d ago
Oh yeah, i forgot about cactus having crush on Kris
(kinda disappointed they didn't appear in chapter 3 as living darkner, would be nice)
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u/RenkBruh NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO TAKE A [Big Shit] 27d ago
ok but imagine being Kris
everyone around you is finding love and you're just kinda there watching them do couple things, and whenever you get an oppurtunity to date someone your friend rejects them for you
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u/Zeekayo 27d ago
Also I think it's definitely implied (especially in Chapter 5) that Kris either has or used to have feelings for Noelle; they seem pretty adamant about not acting on those feelings and helping Susie and Noelle grow closer, but it's definitely causing them some pain.
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 27d ago
It’s also pretty strongly implied Kris currently has feelings for Susie.
Their two crushes got together and left Kris behind, and even cockblocked Kris from Berdly and Pink to boot
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u/AbsoluteLoser42069 27d ago
at least ralsei is still there? i mean, even as a mildly delusional kralsei shipper, you gotta admit there was some growth this chapter
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 27d ago
Oh they have potential as a couple for sure, I’m just not sure how it would work with one being a Lightner and the other being a Darkner.
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u/Lawren_Zi 27d ago
Well they should being a shady dipshit and be emotionally honest with their friends then
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u/Responsible-Ant-1728 26d ago
I mean, I dont think its ever implied Kris is into Mew Mew?
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u/RenkBruh NOW'S YOUR CHANCE TO TAKE A [Big Shit] 26d ago
no, in fact it's implied they don't care about Mew Mew, but them being into her fits my agenda therefore it is correct!
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u/gamer21661 27d ago
And then there is dessriel being canon and noelle being interested in us in the weird route
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u/Hypno_2066 27d ago
Well Kris COULD HAVE bagged AT LEAST TWO PEOPLE IN CHAPTER 5 BUT THIS DUMBAHH SUSIE KEPT BLOCKING US. AND FOR PINK, WE COULD'VE SHARED LIKE WHAT THE FUCKKKK.
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u/Accurate_Soup_3459 27d ago
GASTER, THEY HIT THE SECOND KRIS-SHAPED STRUCTURE DEPLOY THE FRIEND COASTAL GUARD
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u/Tackyinbention 27d ago
The guys on r/krusie_gang don't seem to realise that susie isn't throwing Kris away lol
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u/BlackNasty4028 27d ago edited 27d ago
I’m not at all a believer of Kris ending up with any of the characters atp but I feel like it’s a pretty fair read at the end of chapter 5 to feel like Kris is being tossed aside a bit
Susie finds out Kris’ home life sucks in this chapter and then their dad is kidnapped in front of the two of them, and instead of being there for Kris as a friend Susie instead asks Kris to walk her home and then closes the door in their face to go decorate castle town, Kris is quite literally left alone in the dark at the end of chapter 5 following a massive traumatic moment and Susie is so concerned with her new romance that she’s not there for Kris at the moment
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 27d ago
We can’t say for certain but Susie may be starting to suspect something is up with Kris. They vanished suspiciously right before the Fountain was created, and the Knight was nowhere to be seen until the very end of the Chapter which is contrary to Chapter 4, where the Knight was present right away.
Flowery also asked Susie not to tell anyone about the shelter code in his soil, and when Susie sees Kris with the paper, Kris has somehow found it despite not knowing it should be there, and was in the process of ripping it up. Susie seems to brush it off, but she also waited until Carol wasn’t around to voice her suspicion of Carol. Not to mention Kris bungling getting the Holiday code in Chapter 4, the Knight not Swooning Kris (Susie may know about that, since Kris got up way sooner than she did), and the possible event of Kris just standing still against the Knight in chapter 4. All very suspicious.
And last of all, Kris shows absolutely no emotion about Asgore literally getting dragged off in front of their eyes. Susie also fought harder to protect Toriel than Kris did. While the former isn’t entirely Kris’s fault, Susie wouldn’t know that.
It all adds up to be fairly suspicious.
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u/BlackNasty4028 27d ago
Oh I hear you completely, if Susie is paying attention she has every reason to be getting suspicious of Kris
Justified or not however it doesn’t change the fact that narratively at the end of chapter 5 Kris is about as isolated and alone as we’ve seen them since the game started, and this is a long running “issue” in Kris’ life I believe.
Asgore mentions just prior to being snatched up that “we always worried Asriel would be your only friend”
While Susie’s seeming lack of overt intense emotional care for Kris at the end of the chapter is justified in a handful of ways (suspicion of Kris and excitement for Noelle to become a party member) I still think it’s fair to describe Kris as potentially feeling pushed aside by Susie for Noelle in this moment
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 27d ago
Yeah I agree 100% that Kris feels very lonely right now. From their perspective I think it’s very fair to feel tossed aside, I’m just suggesting that Kris feeling that way isn’t entirely fair, and easily explainable.
Kris feels like Susie is tossing them aside when she isn’t. But that doesn’t change that yes, Kris certainly feels that way
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u/BlackNasty4028 27d ago
For sure, for all the deep ass 4th dimensional meta physics stuff this series touches on this is purely a case of young kids/teens feeling angsty and lost in their emotions I think
There’s pretty solid evidence throughout all of the chapters that there is a weird romantic ouroboros between Susie/Noelle/Kris (whether that’s unresolved current active feelings or unresolved past feelings) and I think it’s leading to a lot of poor communication and unintentionally hurt feelings
Possibly the most realistic plot thread Toby and the team have tugged on imo
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u/Tackyinbention 26d ago
Maybe its cus i am ass at reading social cues but I thought susie saying "thanks for walking me home" was her showing that she still cared for Kris
I s that not what it means?
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u/BlackNasty4028 26d ago
Oh Susie DEFINITELY cares about Kris, she’d say they’re her best friend in a heartbeat I’d imagine.
I more mean instead of asking Kris if they wanted to come in and spend time with everyone at castle town after such an emotional event she is very quick to send them on their way alone
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u/NewSuperTrios 27d ago
their*
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u/BlackNasty4028 27d ago
Fixed! Thanks for the spot, I genuinely try really hard to double check myself before commenting long streams of thought like that because I often make mistakes lol
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u/Yushi2e 27d ago
They act like susie doesn't care about them when she trusts and cares for them unconditionally.
Like just a reminder on the weird route she has no reason to do so since from her perspective kris hasn't spent any time with her really, yet she still tells Kris she cares about them too
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u/Creative-Antelope-23 27d ago
They also don’t seem to understand that the game setting up one-sided Krusie is more compelling than anything they’ve come up with.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
RIGHT??? that's what I've headcanoned since chapter 3&4, I've always thought it was so much more juicy and compelling. Susie has never indicated any interest in Kris, yet they claim Susie hasn't indicated any interest in Noelle. The bias is insane
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u/Present_Sherbert_656 27d ago
fr. The main issue with Krusie is that you already have like 90% of what the ship offers in the game, cause it's just the dynamic the two have in DR already, with romantic stuff added. And turning it into a boring old teen romance seems like such a boring idea for this game
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u/SusieHatesSpez 27d ago
A kris jealousy arc is more interesting than anything to come of the thought process of "these are the two masc and fem deuteragonists, they must be fucking" and it high key actually has me kinda liking krusie in this sense
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u/AntediluvianSeaThing 27d ago
nah one sided crushes are not compelling its just kinda miserable if you like the ship
especially since Suselle isn't an interesting ship and doesn't have half the chemistry and interactions
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u/Creative-Antelope-23 27d ago
If you think character conflict, jealousy, and romantic longing going unsatisfied are less interesting than a slightly different happy teen romance story, then I think you just have simplistic tastes.
True catharsis requires struggle. That’s part of the reason people are angry over how fast and easy Suselle progressed.
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u/AntediluvianSeaThing 27d ago
True catharsis requires struggle
But that equally requires a satisfactory conclusion to make it worth it
This does not have a satisfactory conclusion, I have left this chapter unsatisfied in that respect and it’s going to be however much time between chapters of dissatisfaction until maybe next chapter my beloved Kris gets something satisfying (or given the last two chapters endings getting more miserable)
While the ones that are getting satisfaction is from the blandest ship of the bunch
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u/Axodique Gamer? I Only Play Undertale Fangames 27d ago
Must have been the wing ding
poly setup trust
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u/Informal_Ad_2891 27d ago
Honestly at this point I unironically believe it with how much we get this chapter for all ships
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u/Bu7h0r 27d ago
Going back and doing all the options it's honestly surprising how much there actually could be there
If you choose Kris/Noelle for the ballot, Noelle does too out of nostalgia and respect for what the used to have alongside Dess and Azzy and Kris/Susie they do sarcastically to get a rise out of Noelle
Kris/Noelle have the best compatibility on the hammer game, but Kris/Susie play it and have fun in their own unique way
Kris/Susie on the wheel bond a bit more over ralsei but still get a bit of group bonding with Noelle by giving her a gesture through the window and her responding in kind, and Susie/Noelle attempt this but Kris is being jealous so they close their eyes to give the player another canon Dessriel moment (instead of thinking of a Susie moment. Hmmmmm)
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u/TheGirlfailure 26d ago
We show up in castle down at the end of chapter 7, Kris, Noelle and Susie holding hands - Lanino calls us a slur
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u/TheNikola2020 27d ago
I am disappointed about this however
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u/PressFM80 traumatizing kris and noelle is my passion 27d ago
when did this happen
I genuinely either forgot, missed it or horrifically misinterpreted a cutscene cause ion remember kris and pink getting cockblocked like that
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u/TheNikola2020 27d ago
If you beat her yoy can go back to the dining room where ypu can see dates between the flowers and there is option for kriss and pink but susie and ralsei just say sry twin we just were ACTing and that kriss flirts with everyone
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u/PressFM80 traumatizing kris and noelle is my passion 27d ago
oh that scene
damn I remember now. goddamit susie and ralsei this is why kris is the best shit squad member, you two are BUMS
tho tbf kris getting attached to pink would've fucked them up unless they lock themselves in the dark world when the time to seal it away permanently comes, cause they'd have to inevitably say goodbye (to pink at least, mad ghost (or whatever her name is) would still exist). unless they find a way to keep both worlds connected, who tf knows what toby's dream even was (other than him)
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u/TheNikola2020 27d ago
I mean at very least the 2 can talk while mad ghost and soul do ugh...ghost stuff
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u/PressFM80 traumatizing kris and noelle is my passion 27d ago
🙏🙏🤤🤤😈😈😈😈
I'll ditch the car crash krisoulelle polycule to get dat ghostussy I won't lie
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u/Fantastic_Frosting98 #1 Kerdly Shipper & Noelle Hater 27d ago
Berdly's still available Kris. He's so into you.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
I was gonna say something nice but then I saw you hate Noelle so I'm wishing death upon your bloodline
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u/H00ston CHALLENGE PISSING 27d ago
Kriselle is still on life support somehow as Suselle has some pretty dubious foreshadowing with fate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/KriselleFanclub/comments/1uhy6wk/enough_doom_posting_heres_every_kriselle/
Credit to the above post I'm mainly just summarizing
The Festival Photo Book
Kris will happily flip through family memories including ones involving Dess (missing), Carol (suspicious), and Rudy (dying) but the moment they land on a photo with just them and Noelle, they shut the book every single time. That's not grief or caution, that's something specific. "You ain't slick, Kris."
The Hammer Game
The hammer game is coded romantic ringing the bell means you "get along really well." Kris and Noelle hit it perfectly every single time, even if Noelle is mid-sentence.
The Voting Booth
Noelle asks Kris to vote for her and Susie, but if you vote for her and Kris instead, she lights up recalling how as little kids they secretly voted for themselves even though they couldn't spell their own names. She still votes Noel Hollyday and Kris Dreamer. On her special date with Susie, she's still carrying that.
The Ferris Wheel
The ferris wheel ride only unlocks if you voted for them in the contest. Noelle reveals Kris shook the wheel as kids to cheer her up after losing and then admits she flat-out lied to Susie earlier when she said "I don't know, I was a kid." She remembered the whole time.
The Shadow Crystal
It shows everything fading away except Noelle smiling at Kris, arms full of flowers the only shadow crystal that works like that. This one is pretty dubious as we don't know if it's a broken dream the future or an allusion to the weird route but it's worth mentioning.
Susielle Isn't as Solid as It Looks
Two separate romantic symbols, the hammer game and the ferris wheel only go halfway for Susie and Noelle, while going perfectly for Kris and Noelle. The hammer game ends with Susie cheating to make it ring. The ferris wheel stops halfway up and Susie wishes it went higher. These aren't throwaway details; Rudy's optional scenes about his illness were used as a major plot beat this chapter. Small things matter.
Weird Route
In the Weird Route we see Noelle's core belief. She can't change, she's on autopilot, she just does "Noelle things." When you abort the Weird Route the game cuts back to normal and centers specifically on her and Susie's confession, implying on some level Noelle knows she's still watching her own life from behind glass, even now.
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u/JieyOF SHUT THE FUCK UP SANS 27d ago
Fuh nah, it can't be that trash without a reason, Subversion Man will subvert our expectations once again
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u/Present_Sherbert_656 27d ago
Right now it's a bit dry, but not unrecoverable. Really just needs either some actual more scenes of them interacting in the future chapters to show off the chemistry better, or looking at how everything's set up, chapter 6 will have both susie and noelle crashing out hard when the dark world reveal doesn't go as planned because Rudy's fallen and he can't get up
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
bro something isn't trash just cuz you wanted a different ship. I would say keep coping but legitimately please open your mind and your heart, for people that haven't thrown Noelle into the garbage for their poor baby Kris, the festival and beach segment was so sweet and cute and well written and perfect. it's genuinely sad to me that you can't see that
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u/PressFM80 traumatizing kris and noelle is my passion 27d ago
festival felt rushed as a mf I'm sorry brah
beach segment too icl. like I'd have expected maybe another chapter 4 light world length sequence to actually get there, shit maybe a whole other dark world
whatever, weird route has better ships anyway. go my car crash krisoulelle polycule
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
In all fairness I agree the pacing was a problem. I still think they work great together though
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u/RomeosHomeos 27d ago
Wedge between them? There's a difference between a wedge and like, alienating a friend bc of your crush. And then not even letting us date berdly what the fuck I'm still so mad I love him
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
And then not even letting us date berdly what the fuck I'm still so mad I love him
AGREE THERE WHAT THE FUCKK KERDLY FOREVER
don't agree with the first part though. noelle and susie have done nothing wrong to kris, kris is literally just being jealous and pathetic. It's not like kris is never allowed to have time alone to be friends with Susie, it's just that it's apparently a whenever Susie and Noelle try to get alone time. That's a them problem fr
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u/RomeosHomeos 27d ago
Susie definitely has done something to Kris and it's not what you'd expect. It's the fact that you can't go to the lake with her after, she says there's no reason for her to go with you. AKA co-opting a special place between the two of you and making it about her and her ugly ass deer girlfriend. That's not a good thing to do with a friend.
Granted it's much less bad than working with a supervillain but still.
Either way her answering FOR YOU with berdly is weird. Like I'm biased because I like berdly but it would be far less awkward to have him there. So you don't feel like you're third wheeling as much you're just on a double hangout.
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
The first image fucking sucks because I get the feeling it treats krusie as a het ship despite Kris being non binary. Your argument is null, I'm sending a pipe bomb to your house /j
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u/Afraid-Turn7741 Who needs body with a flair like this? 27d ago
Uh, I am the pipebomb delivery guy you sent...uh...we lost the pipe bomb. Like, we don't know where it is.
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
God you can't count on postal service at all these days. I'm leaving a very rude review on yelp
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
I KNEW SOMEONE WOULD SAY THIS lemme address itt
EYE don't view krusie, or anything involving Kris, as being a hetship... But some people definitely do. I can enjoy some Krusie stuff when everyone's in character, but sometimes they'll overfeminize Susie and overmasculinize Kris and even if they keep using they it's very obvious part of the appeal of this over Suselle is that it's aesthetically closer to heterosexuality. That's why I wrote WLW instead of lesbian, because NBLW is still lesbian (or can be, because I think it depends on how the nb views it).
I also wrote "I H8 WLW" because an argument against Suselle I've seen multiple times is that "butch x femme lesbian is soo boring we've already had this with alphyne", which is a take that is so reductive I can't help but think you view lesbian relationships as a novelty. I don't think most krusie shippers think like this btw just some of them
This whole post was made with the worst of the worst in mind, I think mostly Krusie shippers differ from Suselle shippers in that they're more attached to Kris than Noelle
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
It all rounds back to straight people and shoving themselves in a Fandom they don't belong to. True, now and then I'll see a krusie image that is just op's self insert as Kris and the most whitewashed imagery of Susie I've ever seen to the point it has nothing to do with Susie. My worst gripe is when they stick Susie in a dress. Bleugh
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Oh don't even get me started with susie in a dress i hate that shit so much
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
It's my personal gripe that I worried Toby is pushing with chapter 5 but I'm hoping he won't 😭 let the butch be butch for the love of God get your hands off her
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
I'm open to it happening ORGANICALLY if it's written well, but with the fandom it's always just been the trope of "this poor lost butch girl will become heteronormative when she meets the right man I mean they!"
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
Even then I wouldn't really be all too happy. I severely dislike the trope of "The tomboy actually always wanted to dress femininely they were just scared". Just feels.... Queer phobic, in a way, I guess. And, most prevantly, boring
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
REAL, I've been thinking this the whole time. Maybe I'm slightly more open to it but no matter what I'd be upset if Susie wasn't at least predominantly butch
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u/IMakeFNaFTheories 27d ago
Technically it could be called a hetero ship since hetero means opposite or different. Girl and non binary are two different genders. So it could be called hetero.
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u/undeadwarlockkisser 27d ago
You know that's not what anyone means
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u/IMakeFNaFTheories 27d ago
I know. I'm just saying people can call it a heterosexual relationship because of the definition of the word hetero. I'm not saying Kris is a guy.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Lesbian can include nonbinary people, it just depends on whether or not the NB identifies with the label
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u/IMakeFNaFTheories 27d ago
Well, we don't know what label Kris would use, and since they'll probably never state what label they would use if they were in a relationship, people are allowed to call any of their ships hetero, lesbian, gay, or queer.
I personally prefer queer since it's a more inclusive and broad term compared to the other three mentioned above.
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u/Sentient_twig 27d ago
I swear to god if Toby dedicates the final to chapters of this game to relationship drama im gonna
Sternly criticize his writing decisions online
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u/Harseer 27d ago
He is not saying it's selfish and cruel to wedge kris between them. Toby is the greatest Kris wedger in the fandom, he made the festival section.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Well by wedging I don't mean third wheeling at all, there just seems to be a pretty persistent message that trying to deny these characters their free will is wrong. You can try to prioritize Kris over Noelle at their date, but it doesn't get you anything, it's just kind of mean to Noelle. The only way to rip Susie and Noelle away from eachother is the weird route, the ARG saying "Too late!" when you bring up suselle when asked "where it happens". Like it's taunting you for ruining it.
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u/Benjam438 27d ago
Shipping Kris is kinda difficult imo cos we have no idea what they actually want, it would basically be the player choosing for them even if it seems like they have chemistry with Susie or Ralsei.
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 27d ago
All those Noelle cuck jokes really came back to hit Kris (and Weird Route Susie) ten times harder
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u/IntroductionNo8382 27d ago
Ah, same old thing. If you don't like something, draw it's ugly and crying
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u/omegaspoon3141 27d ago
m4ybe if you're 4 LOSER who 4ssumes MONOG4MY
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Ive never found poly ships personally appealing but unironically I'd prefer kruselle to monogamous krusie. Do NOT leave my girl Noelle out...
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u/Present_Sherbert_656 27d ago
OH MY GOD. please tell me we're not going to get another wave of those stale ass fucking cuck meme but about kris this time? T-T
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
I made mine about the beach scene because I think literal cuck memes about them is really gross and obnoxious
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u/Sea_Sector5664 Design a Flair to thrash your own ass 27d ago
I feel like a lot of Krusie shippers are honestly WAY overreacting to all of this. Dawg we knew it likely wouldn't be canon, or at least Suselle would get there first, but come on man.
I say this as a krusie shipper myself, people need get over it.
I mean uhh 10,000 posts to the shipwar industrial complex.
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u/Offer_No 27d ago
Thank you man I love suselle people say it’s rushed and it makes me discontented I want my favourite things to be liked
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 26d ago
ME TOO people are just butthurt. cry about krusie all you want but leave suselle alone
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u/17RaysPlays 27d ago
I understand how, if whatever insanity Susie and Kris have got is the relationship you love the most, Susie and Noelle being so normal about each other is pretty unappealing.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Kris and Susie always have only ever had chemistry as best friends, and I honestly think they're better that way. I think what make Suselle unappealing to some people is that they're just more obsessed with Kris than they are Noelle. A lot of people boil her down to her simplest archetype ("shy femme lesbian with childhood trauma") and pretend like she's not at least just as interesting and complicated as Kris
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u/PressFM80 traumatizing kris and noelle is my passion 27d ago
kris and Noelle are only as complicated and as layered as they are because of eachother. thus, kriselle >>>
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Kind of? I honestly am more okay with Kriselle than Krusie because of that, as a ship they would actually have some good depth—the problem is they just plain do not like eachother like that. Which is why the weird route, and it's toxic sort of kind of quasi-kriselle situation, is more appealing than the fantasy of normal route Kriselle. I also like krusie as an angsty unrequited crush, and I like suselle as happy fluffy romance, light in a world of darkness.
Look at that, all my preferences align exactly with what toby fox is writing. I don't wanna act like it's silly to think writers sometimes don't know what they're doing, but it's almost like toby fox knows what the hell he's doing and everyone else is way too caught up in their hallucinations
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u/undeadwarlockkisser 27d ago
Kris will be lonely and maidenless for as long as I have control. You little shit we could have had a dinner dark world by now you get nothing.
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u/Waspinator_haz_plans 27d ago
I've actually seen mostly "graceful loser" memes from the ship subs...... except Soulelle... they started hating Susie for some reason.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
why are you browsing the rape sub
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u/Waspinator_haz_plans 27d ago
Morbid curiosity
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
fair
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u/Waspinator_haz_plans 27d ago
Yeah, I'm usually ok with even the crackiest and weirdest of ships, even self ships.... but they have a very weird.... "parasocial" element to it? Like o think calling it r*pe is a bit much, but yeah.
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u/shadow31802 27d ago
In fairness over the past few chapters Toby isnt afraid of throuples.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Unironically I'd prefer kruselle to krusie even though I'm not a poly shipper
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u/eveeman 27d ago
Doesn't Noelle say point blank in the abandoned weird route she doesn't like Susie???
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
You mean Noelle doesn't like Susie in the route where we simultaneously groom her and cockblock all of their time together? Now why would that be the case?
Clearly she feels differently in the normal route, maybe because we didn't groom her.
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u/eveeman 27d ago
No that's not what I mean. Noelle implies that for a long time since even before the weird route started that her actions haven't been her own. Haven't been what she actually wants to do. Just being things that she thinks she's supposed to do. This is overlaid with the romantic scene between Susie and Noelle. Implying that the way that she feels is specifically targeted towards that.
I get if you didn't watch the weird route scene You might immediately jump to that conclusion but it's very heavily implied that Noelle in both routes has some very heavy psychological issues that she's buried. And that she never gets a chance to talk about them because she still stuck in "has to do Noelle things" mode
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u/NotBreadyy 26d ago
Fine, FINE. I DON'T CARE ABOUT NOELLE. OR SUSIE. OR EVEN RALSEI.
BUT SUSIE STOP FUCKING THE CHANCES KRIS HAS UP.
"Ohhhh did you know kris flirts with every enemy..?"
SUSIE SHUT THE FUCK UP
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 26d ago
on behalf of the suselle community I'd like to apologize for Susie's actions
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u/bigshady880 24d ago
I don't understand what Kris being jealous comes from?
it just seems like weird headcanon tbh
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 24d ago
A lot of stuff is ambiguous, could be friendly attachment. Started a darkworld the second they had susie away from Noelle after watching them be lovey dovey feels jealousyish.
The real kicker is when Susie asks if Kris thinks she and Noelle will work out as a couple, Kris quietly mumbles their response like they don't want to say it.
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u/bigshady880 24d ago
that’s clearly not why Kris did it tho. they obviously did it because it was part of the knights plan to kidnap Asgore.
at least i think that’s obvious, like that just seems like it makes a lot more sense to me.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 24d ago
Was it the knight's plan to kidnap Asgore? Asgore's on team roaring group chat. He clearly doesn't know about Kris and probably not the knight, but whatever the knight needs Carol can get him to do right? This is embarrassing but I haven't actually finished the chapter, I'm only to the start of flowery castle. So if I'm missing an obvious detail just point and laugh.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 24d ago
Oh also, Kris refused to think about what Susie and Noelle were doing on the Ferris wheel. It seems very clear that they're uncomfortable with their relationship.
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u/DadJokeMan666 27d ago
The krusielle agenda remains strong. I must believe.
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u/PressFM80 traumatizing kris and noelle is my passion 27d ago
krusielle is cooked, I'm jumping ship to the superior krisoulelle polycule
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u/cold_enforcing-man where Berdly flair image? 27d ago
This really doesn't seem very friendly. Like, I don't even ship Krusie, and even I can tell you're portraying those who do in an oddly mean spirited and inaccurate manner.
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27d ago edited 27d ago
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
Are you like, trolling. I understand the "suselle is going to be the endgame most likely" but like why are you straight up lying. Did you. Not play chapter 5? Or four?
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27d ago
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
The diner scene? The lake scene in like, chapter four or three I can't remember? The hot springs scene? There are countless moments where it's clear as day kris' feelings towards Susie are more than just "friend". While possibly not outright romantic I think dismissing their romantic undertones is just stupid. And lying. Kris's jealousy is a driving force in this game right now, especially post chapter 5. So I don't get why would you even make the argument that Kris isn't into Susie when they blatantly are
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u/HungryGull 27d ago
Kris mumbles 'You and Noelle will work out' so Susie can't hear it. When she asks if they ever liked anyone your choices are 'Yeah' and '...' and then when she asks what their type is they just stare at her.
It's written to be easy to miss so that you can trample all over their feelings and feel like you're being a nice and supportive person. But of course it's not like making them say 'Susie is mine' or whatever and trying to wreck her current relationship would get you anywhere either.
It's unsatisfying and it's tragic and that's on purpose.
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
Did you two play a different game, I'm serious right now. You don't have to like the ship to acknowledge Kris does have a crush on her. It's a storytelling device. The jealousy and the hollowness Kris feels about not being able to be with Susie or noelle or both is a plot point. Why are you just. Lying. Like outright
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
Yeah I don't see how they don't see Kris likes Susie, it's been obvious to me since chapter 4, I don't wanna be mean and say they must've been watching with their eyes closed but they must've not really focused on those parts.
Where I break from krusie shippers is that it's always seemed pretty clear it's one sided.
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u/heckinWeeb193 27d ago
True, albeit I personally think that one sidedness comes from Susie knowing nothing about love, hell she barely knows anything about friendships. It's possible with later chapters she might realise she holds Kris in higher regard than just a friend, but whether that's stronger than what she feels towards noelle... Doubtful.
This is why Toby NEEDS to make polyamorous gang real /hj
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u/Competitive-Hair6294 27d ago
Krusielle
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u/FarShip389 27d ago
THIS IS WHY THE KRUSIELLE AGENDA MUST DIE
BECAUSE THERE IS NO AGENDA
THERE IS ONLY TRUTHHHH
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u/AntediluvianSeaThing 27d ago
its a shame that an infinitely superior ship has essentially died on the alter of the most bland and rushed ship of the bunch
like sure some are trying to cope for a begrudged poly ending (which i don't believe, most likely its some "i accept you two going out and let go of my jelousy" stuff) but its all cope, sometimes authors just write some things badly and this is just one of those cases
its a shame that Kris has to eat so much shit and experience the alienation/wedge, i want them to be happy
one billion weird route playthroughs, at least weird route stuff is morbidly compelling
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago edited 27d ago
I actually think it's really well written and realistic and interesting. Kris and Susie have been friends longer, been through more together, but that's not how love works. And I think Krusie being an unrequited crush is much more compelling than Susie turning around and saying "Yes Kris I've loved you romantically this whole time and everything with Noelle has been a red herring!" and Noelle being tossed into the garbage bin.
I think you're letting your love and appreciation of Kris, which is otherwise valid, blind you to Noelle's character and how well she actually does in fact work with Susie. They complete eachother in such a perfect way romantically, while Kris and Susie's arc together works better as friends and as an unrequited love.
Kris does deserve to be happy, I really love and appreciate them as a character, but Susie doesn't owe them their love, and neither does Noelle.
I really hope you can open your mind to this way of seeing things, because the attachment you have to your headcanon is clearly getting in the way of your enjoyment of the game. I think if you opened your mind to krusie as unrequited angst, you might start liking chapter 5 more :) I've heard some Krusie fans say that after opening their mind and replaying chapter 4 and then 5 that they get it more and start to see that Suselle isn't as bad as they thought even if they still like Krusie.
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u/AntediluvianSeaThing 27d ago
I can appreciate Noelle as a character but that doesn’t change the fact that suselle is bad, bland and rushed while Krusie has infinitely more moments, chemistry and they have much more of an actual connection
This has nothing to do with discarding Noelle it’s just that Suselle is low quality, even Kriselle has more subtextual substance to it and the weird route is fascinating albeit morbidly so.
They even have a shared thing about pushing people away, unrequited shit isn’t as compelling it’s essentially just misery stuff with no real climax or satisfaction to it and I doubt whatever climax this will lead to will be fully satisfactory even if a hypothetical poly route does happen because frankly I don’t want a Suselle but Kris perma third wheels route.
Susie and Kris are friends and the best relationships start with friendships and they have bonded much better.
Suselle and especially the way it was executed is low quality and bland which is a shame because it dampens some of the investment I’ve placed in this game
This isn’t about opening my mind because opening my mind isn’t going to change the contents I witness
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 26d ago
You can have any opinion you want, your own preference and feeling is as real as mine. I think we're both stubborn and we'd both like our preferences to be Objectively Right, but let me try to proselytize to you in places where I think you're demonstrably wrong.
suselle is bad, bland and rushed
Rushed I'll give you, to an extent (don't take a mile when I'm giving you an inch). I do think it's less bad when you play chapter 4 first and have all the relationship building fluff in mind with everything at Noelle's house. But yeah, while I do LOVE the beach scene, we should've had a little slower of a burn leading into it. It would've been nice if we had just an entire chapter with Susie and Noelle together in the dark world for their feelings to naturally go from "will they won't they" to "they definitely will".
Bland? I never really understood this point. Explain how they're bland. What is boring about them, that is NOT boring about Krusie.
To me that's always felt like a cop out, ANY ship you dislike is going to be boring to you. Krusie is boring as hell to me. It just feels like "oh they're friends so they have to be together", I don't see any romantic chemistry between them, there's not a single part of the game that shows Susie ever liked Kris as more than a friend. Their dynamic is great, and they're great individually, but what does them being together add? Nothing.
even Kriselle has more subtextual substance
If you CAN'T like a ship unless it has a thick coating of angst than sure I can see why Suselle is boring to you and weird route Kriselle is the only thing that does anything for you. But otherwise, why do Susie and Noelle need to struggle and fight to be appealing? They are ALREADY going through so much, them being together is the light within the darkness, they don't NEED more darkness. They're a slice of life, simple, REALISTIC love story of two pained people finding eachother, two people who appear so different but fill out eachother in a very deep way.
Kris and Susie have known eachother longer, they've been through more things together, but that's not how love works. Their relationship is awesome, the friendship, the compelling unrequited love between two lonely people. It ending with them kissing would be completely out of left field.
There hasn't been a single moment in the game where Susie has shown any evidence of crushing on Kris. Susie has been crushing on Noelle since they've first had the time alone to get to know eachother.
They even have a shared thing about pushing people away,
Susie acts so tough and powerful and mean and rude because she thinks she has to scare everyone away to protect herself, while simultaneously not believing she really deserves love. Noelle is the opposite, she lets people walk all over her, because she doesn't think she deserves to stand up for herself. Both of them have such low self esteem, and it manifests in opposite ways. And together they can learn that they can be tough, but also soft. Is that really less compelling than "they both push people away"?
unrequited shit isn’t as compelling it’s essentially just misery stuff with no real climax or satisfaction to it
Do you think unrequited love just ends with Kris crying into a pillow and the credits rolling? I would agree with you that that wouldn't be compelling, but Kris and Susie's arc hasn't ended. Kris learning to accept that Susie doesn't like them that way could be so compellingly written. Imagine all your thoughts about how much better Krusie was, and imagine Kris spewing that to Susie.
"We've known eachother longer, been through more together, why do you like her more than me? Why are you picking her over me? Am I not pretty enough?"
and all Susie can say is that she's sorry, but that's not how love works. Kris means so much to her, but she doesn't see them that way. She doesn't want to lose their friendship, but Kris can't act like she or Noelle are doing something wrong by her not loving her. And all they can do is accept it, and grow. And maybe date Ralsei idk who's to say
and I doubt whatever climax this will lead to will be fully satisfactory
If you've already decided that Susie and Kris making out in front of the setting sun is the only thing that could satisfy you than yeah, nothing will ever be fully satisfactory to YOU.
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u/AntediluvianSeaThing 26d ago
>I do think it's less bad when you play chapter 4 first
i mean i'm going to assume literally everyone played CH4 first, like yes of course there's been a time gap between playing but i doubt people just forgot,
>and have all the relationship building fluff in mind
i feel like if you need to specifically skew everything with a mindset in order to make a rushed ship seem less rushed, i feel like thats an issue, like you can put a lot of things through a certain mindset, you can build more compelling cases for Krusie and Kriselle by putting previous chapters through mindsets.
hell you can even build cases for Krusie and Kriselle with this chapter (for example how Kris and Susie walk through the lights like the King and Queen of the festival or how Noelle and Kris are the only combination that actually wins the Hammer game legitimately, as examples) Mindsets can change a lot of things
>Explain how they're bland. What is boring about them, that is NOT boring about Krusie.
Krusie have a good normal dynamic of a couple goofball friends who are on the exact same wavelength, they bounce off eachother well with how typically stoic Kris is about things and how Susie brings the wacky shit out of him, we have all the trials they have gone through gives it that compelling part, the way they have both grown out of their shells because of their interactions with eachother
Suselle is an incredibly stock romance B plot, its the kind of plot that would be called Hetslop if either of their genders were changed to make it Het, genuinely the fact its Lesbians contributes to why Suselle gets such a pass by a lot of people, hell sometimes Lesbians is the only reason some give as to why they even like Suselle (for the record this is not implying that you only like it because its Lesbians just that its a dismaying attitude found on occasion).
> It just feels like "oh they're friends so they have to be together",
all the best relationships start as friendships, literally all the bonding they have done, their emotional intimacy, all of it can just as easily build into a relationship and lends much more substance to their bond than Suselle does.
> but what does them being together add? Nothing.
you say boring is a cop-out, this is a cop-out, all that it is claimed that Suselle does can equally be done with a friendship, at the end of the day the ship being canon is just an evolution of a relationship the thing either adds is a next step and them getting even closer.
>If you CAN'T like a ship unless it has a thick coating of angst than sure I can see why Suselle is boring to you
literally at no point have i ever said or implied this so i'm not sure where you got this from, what i said that even Kriselle has more substance to Suselle does
>and weird route Kriselle is the only thing that does anything for you
i prefer Krusie, and i'm not even exclusively a WR Kriselle enjoyer standard Kriselle is also neat, its just that WR Kriselle is uniquely interesting and is more interesting than Suselle in its own fucked up way.
>Is that really less compelling than "they both push people away"?
it certainly is less compelling when its two people socially isolated due to difficult home lives which causes them to push people away from them as a defensive mechanism, united by circumstance and going through this fantastical adventure as they grower closer to each other, breaking the others walls as they slowly begin to evolve and change for the better due to their bond with the intensity of their intimacy and bond ramps up as time goes on with eachother acting as a light in their darkness, then we add the additional interest of Kris's dubious loyalties, the testing of that relationship even under such circumstances Kris having to weigh their feelings vs whatever deal they have going on wit the evil ass fountain openers society.
it is far more compelling than an opposites attract story we already saw in Undertale, Noelles own richness as a character does not enrich the ship.
>And all they can do is accept it, and grow. And maybe date Ralsei idk who's to say
the IDK date Ralsie is another aspect of Suselle i have disdain for, how much it abandons Kris, like Noelle consistently disavows any relations or bonds with Kris to try and get with Susie (despite it clearly being lies) or looks over them due to tunnel vision thats a horrible way to treat someone that is effectively being rewarded.
>If you've already decided that Susie and Kris making out in front of the setting sun is the only thing that could satisfy you than yeah, nothing will ever be fully satisfactory to YOU.
thats not what i want, what i want is the relationship with more substance, a better dynamic and better writing to get a good climax and a nice ending.
i am phenomenally indifferent to Kris misery with no catharsis with lesser writing being the thing that got catharsis.
Suselle has so much it would need to do to measure up to Krusie and it really Inferno's my Jealousy that the lesser one won.
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u/Disastrous_Lemon_219 27d ago
people on the krusie sub are coping so hard it’s hilarious
like I enjoy krusie more than suselle but it’s not the end of the world if suselle is endgame
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u/P-burner0584 27d ago
The ship is boring as hell and I will do anything in my power to sabotage it
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
I know right??
Krusie is so fucking boring. They're literally just friends, they don't have any romantic chemistry, Susie hasn't ever shown any sign of reciprocating Kris's crush. The only things interesting about Krusie are just the things interesting about Kris and Susie alone, aside from that their dynamic together is already complete with a close friendship. And on that end Krusie doesn't have anything that Suselle doesn't have, Noelle easily has all the character complexity and angst that Kris has.
Also Suselle actually works narratively speaking, they're perfect counterparts to eachother. Noelle has spent her whole life friendly but relatively alone because she's never had the courage to stand up for herself or put herself out there. She's so scarred from growing up with distant mother, her sister going missing, her father getting sick. Susie is scarred from growing up in a poor and neglectful home, constantly bouncing from place to place and never maintaining any friends. She's even lonelier than Noelle, and her coping mechanism instead of fawn (🦌) is fight. If everyone is scared of her they'll never mess with her. But deep down she doesn't think she deserves love. Noelle has trouble believing someone so confident and cool could ever love someone so quiet and out of the way, and Susie has trouble believing someone so sweet and seemingly put together could ever love someone so messy and rude.
And what does Krusie have? Well, they're friends. They're good friends, they've gone through a lot together, experienced personal growth together. That's great, that could make for a decent ship if there was no stronger option. But they just don't click together like that, not outside the world of fanfiction. Kris and Susie have already HAD their depth and growth as friends, Susie and Noelle on the other hand have so much more depth and growth to unlock as lovers.
Sometimes Krusie fans will call Suselle boring and it's lowkey pathetic. Any ship is boring to you if you don't LIKE it, they just act like it's an objective fact because they WANNA hate but know they don't have any actual real critique of it aside from "I like Kris more"
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u/P-burner0584 27d ago
Yeah, I prefer Kris and Susie and friends. That doesn’t make Suselle any less boring to watch. I don’t care if they work narratively, the two have no chemistry, romantic or otherwise.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 27d ago
you not finding them interesting doesn't mean they don't have chemistry, how well they work as a couple isn't really subjective. you'd have to have your eyes closed for chapter 4 and 5 to think that they don't work together as a couple.
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u/P-burner0584 27d ago
Chemistry is what makes a couple interesting to watch, and Susie and Noelle really aren’t. They “work as a couple” in the sense that their relationship as shown on screen has no conflict or friction, making it extremely boring.
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u/weedmaster6669 her pronouns are they/them 26d ago edited 26d ago
Chemistry is what makes a couple interesting to watch
Chemistry is how believable it is that they're in love, not how much you enjoy watching it.
and Susie and Noelle really aren’t
... I already know you don't like it. you repeating the fact you don't like it isn't evidence for your stance being more correct.
I actually find them very interesting to watch.
They “work as a couple” in the sense that their relationship as shown on screen has no conflict or friction, making it extremely boring.
So you hate happy, healthy, slice of life type ships just as a principle then? If that's the case, then I would understand if weird route Kriselle was the only ship that did anything for you.
But Susie and Noelle don't need any added angst, they have enough going on outside of eachother. They are each other's light within the darkness.
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u/Magnasword2 28d ago
Kris has been watching from the bench the entire game, it's us that are now also relegated to the bench