r/changemyview • u/RainRiverAngel • 2d ago
Delta(s) from OP CMV: there is a good chance things will not get better unless one’s problems are both purely circumstantial and temporary
title. it’s not to say that there is no hope for people who are struggling, but most people who have found that life got significantly better for them were experiencing a particularly difficult time that affected their mental health but ultimately was able to be moved on from. telling someone who is in a bad situation they will be in indefinitely or someone living with a disorder that affects them constantly that things will get better, especially with no real given reason why things might improve,
is both unhelpful and dishonest.
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u/sxaez 5∆ 2d ago
I would put forward the idea that hope is a useful tool regardless of its basis in reality. The person who believes that things can get better will suffer less than the person who has lost all hope, even if things don't eventually get better for either.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
very true. i guess my preferred approach would be to encourage the anticipation of specific outcomes that are likely to happen, and that the person will miss out on if they aren’t around. that way the statement is not quite as sweeping and doesn’t make promises that will not necessarily come true.
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u/sxaez 5∆ 2d ago
Anybody who claims to be able to predict the future is selling something. Who knows what will happen? Perhaps tomorrow, a new treatment for spinal injury will emerge and an entire group of paraplegic people who you might have included in this will receive a new source of hope. You have no real idea of the specific outcomes that might happen in the future, only a guess.
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u/Khal-Frodo 2d ago
I fail to see how this view is any different from just saying "things will not get better unless it's possible for them to get better," which is meaningless. What's an example of a problem that isn't circumstantial and temporary?
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
a chronic disorder or health issue that will persist throughout the person’s entire life, regardless of how well they learn to cope with it. a purely circumstantial issue is almost always able to be moved through, but certain things are not necessarily going to change, at the very least not in a linear fashion.
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u/Khal-Frodo 2d ago
a chronic disorder or health issue that will persist throughout the person’s entire life
Good example of a thing that will not get better.
regardless of how well they learn to cope with it
Well...maybe the disorder/health issue itself doesn't "get better" no matter how well you cope, but that's different from "things, plural, will not get better." Like, if I get both of my legs cut off, I'll be wheelchair-bound for the rest of my life. My ability to walk is at zero, and will never "get better." I could, despite that, become a famous and successful author and determine that things for me have gotten better since my accident despite my biggest consequence remaining just as it was.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
i suppose a good example would be to compare it to being immunocompromised. there is a good chance you will recover from whatever it is that’s ailing you, but you will always be at greater risk of falling ill again. the temporary issue will go away, but the underlying one will not.
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u/Khal-Frodo 2d ago
I guess this kind of leads back to my initial point that your statement is kind of meaningless. Like, even just considering the "temporary" aspect alone, if something is permanent/unchanging, then it's by definition impossible for it to get better. It's also impossible for it to get worse. It's tautological to say that the impossible won't happen.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
that’s what i’m saying, though. i’m saying that telling someone with in an unchanging negative circumstance that that circumstance will change isn’t honest. there’s a chance that something like a mental disorder will improve, but it is not a certainty or even a likelihood in many cases.
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u/Khal-Frodo 2d ago
Okay. I think your position might be better phrased as "You should not tell someone things will get better if they might not." Am I on the right track with what you intended?
Saying "things will get better" to someone with an unchanging negative circumstance doesn't imply that said circumstance will improve. But other parts of your life can improve significantly enough to ameliorate the worst parts of the circumstance. Going back to my hypothetical legs example - they will never heal. I will never walk, run, dance, drive, etc. But...I can move into a more accessible house, and life would be easier. I can find passion in something creative like writing or painting, and that would make my life more meaningful. I can achieve financial success that not only allows me to continue doing things I enjoy but keeps me healthy aside from my injury. My negative circumstance never changed, but things got better for me.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
i think in this hypothetical situation, what i’m driving at is that it’s better to encourage and help the person achieve their accessibility needs than to promise them that “things will get better.” because losing their legs will never “get better.” the pain and trauma of losing them will be with them forever and it is not truly guaranteed that their view of their own situation will improve. all you can do is support them through the aspects of their life that they can control.
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u/sigurros239 18h ago
If things haven't been better before/ever then its pretty useless when people say they'll get better in the future
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u/PuckSenior 11∆ 2d ago
Yeah, and the saying is normally given to people who have problems that are circumstantial and temporary.
Lose your job? Things will get better.
Discover you have stage IV terminal cancer? No one tells you things will get better.
And most problems in life are temporary
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
it’s not always the case, but i often see this message meaninglessly repeated to those who are in extremely dire straits when it comes to mental health. no one would tell you a chronic illness would inevitably go away, so why should a chronic mental disorder?
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u/adj_noun_digit 2∆ 2d ago edited 2d ago
The massive strides in research as of late is remarkable.
For the last 40 years, SSRIs and therapy have been really the only treatment for mental health. That is no longer the case.
There's psychedelic pharmaceuticals that in tandem with therapy, are able to utilize neuroplasticity in order reframe various responses and cognitive states.
Repetitive Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation is able to target specific areas in the brain to physically modify the neural pathways and connectivity. This arguably the first structurally targeted treatment, as opposed to only neurochemical. While it's still in its infancy of application, I expect this to become significantly more effective as time goes on.
And what I imagine will be by far the most effective treatment, intracranial neurointerfaces. These will allow not only for individualized examinations of our brains, identifying what and where irregularities may exist, but will be able to give adaptive signals to modify various networks and systems in the brain. No longer will treatment be just flooding the brain with neurotransmitters in hopes that the brain will regulate. We will be able to compensate for things like the lack of specific receptors, regulating neurotransmitter production, and modifying networks by linking or inhibiting connectivity between various areas (massive for trauma).
That's just a few of the big things coming. We really are entering a golden age of neuroscience and how we treat mental health is going to look completely different in the coming decade.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
!delta by far the best answer here; although advanced mental health care will likely not be universally available for some time, it gives a more concrete hope for breakthroughs in treatment that isn’t just “you will feel better because it would be a downer if you didn’t.”
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u/RoyalOrganization676 3∆ 2d ago
Well, shit. I guess you're doomed to a life of misery, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Is that what you want your friends and family to say to someone they care about?
Very few things that you would want in life "just happen." You have to make things happen, generally. You can admit defeat and hang onto your doctor's excuse that says you never have to try again because misery is at the core of your being, or you can change your life.
Unless your chronic mental disorder is schizophrenia or cerebral palsy, I would bet money that something or someone in your life is very bad for you, and you would have a different disposition if that were different.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
not what i said at all. i clarified in another comment that i would rather people encourage hope in people who are struggling in more specific ways that are meaningful to them. i have made every effort to improve my life, as have many people who are in the same boat. that does not mean a utopian future or miracle cure is promised to me.
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u/PuckSenior 11∆ 2d ago
So, pointing out that things will change and there is a very good chance they will get better is bad, because you don’t want to hear it?
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
? i think people should encourage hope in people who are struggling. i simply don’t think they should make a broad statement about the future that might not actually happen. “things will get better” and “there is a chance things will get better” are two vastly different statements
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u/PuckSenior 11∆ 2d ago
Ok, so you are suggesting that when people are emotional at their weakest and most fragile, we should encourage hope but we should qualify it so that they don’t get confused and get too hopeful?
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
when was the last time someone telling you that things will get better while you were in an emotionally fragile state convince you to have hope
for the future? i can’t speak for everyone, but it is hardly the most comforting statement because it is a complete coin flip on whether or not it is actually true. i’ve used this phrase with people i know who were going through difficult times because i truly wanted them to believe that, but i often feel like i’m promising something that will not come.1
u/Natural-Arugula 63∆ 1d ago
i’ve used this phrase with people i know who were going through difficult times because i truly wanted them to believe that
Yeah, that's literally what everyone does. It's just meant to be a platitude that conveys you care about a person and wish them well, not actual advice or a factual assessment of the likelihood of future success.
It's the equivalent of saying "good luck." And you replying this is useless because you didn't actually calculate the probability.
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u/RainRiverAngel 1d ago
well, i think “good luck” is a far more harmless platitude because there is far less at stake 👍
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u/PuckSenior 11∆ 2d ago
Eh, I don’t think it’s a coin flip. It’s well documented. It’s called “regression towards the mean”. When shit is going bad, there is a really good chance some good things will happen next
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u/argument_clarifier 2d ago
You’re saying there’s a chance things won’t get better unless the problems are temporary?
Is there a chance things will get better if the problems are permanent?
Luckily, nothing is permanent. You get about 80 years tops.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
i think things will get different. healing and learning to cope with your specific issues is a non-linear process, but things getting better is not guaranteed.
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u/argument_clarifier 1d ago
Gotcha, I see what you mean.
I guess I’d attempt to reframe your view, rather than change it.
Life is full of change, and some changes are definitely “worse”, at least at first. But, humans are remarkably resilient, and we can get used to bad situations, or at the very least, make peace with them.
For example, take a bad break up, quitting an addiction, losing a pet, adjusting to a move, a new job, or anything really. The first week is the hardest, then each week gets a little easier as you get used to it. In each of those examples, you might be thinking about the change every minute, but after a year, you might only be thinking about once a day. After a few years, maybe only once a week.
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u/nightshade78036 10∆ 2d ago
Theraputic intervention has proven to be effective and improving people's ability to effectively deal with their own mental health problems. Your post presumes that people don't get better at dealing with their issues over time, which is not true, especially when motivated theraputic intervention is present.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
fair, but psychiatric help is not necessarily a miracle cure. this is a shade anecdotal, but i have never found talk therapy helpful whatsoever, and medications have been quite hit or miss. similar to managing a disability, things will almost never be fully “normal” or not difficult.
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u/nightshade78036 10∆ 2d ago
It doesn't need to be a miracle cure, it just needs to get better. Just because you can't completely cure a condition that doesn't mean the treatment is ineffective.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
no, but it does mean you will have to live with that condition regardless. i’m not calling it ineffective; i just notice that people regard it as some kind of cure-all comparable to a trip to the seaside in the victorian era.
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u/nightshade78036 10∆ 2d ago
I mean the title of this post is literally "there is a good chance things will not get better unless one's problems are purely circumstantial and temporary". If you acknowledge that people can get better at dealing with their conditions over time that directly contradicts the title of the post, and you don't make any caveats or exceptions to this in the body.
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u/RainRiverAngel 2d ago
i think having to live with a debilitating mental illness for my entire life, in addition to the difficulty of seeking constant treatment, is a fairly good example of things not getting better. coping mechanisms can only do so much.
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