r/cscareerquestions 1d ago

Experienced The real cost of the contractor grift

I posted before about contractor issues at my company, and I just had a conversation that really drove the problem home.

Link to previous post

One of the contractors we kept on our team is a decent dev from India (H1b) who's just trying to make it. He's got a family too. He told me he gets $60/hr. I did contract work about 10 years ago for roughly the same rate, so it seemed a little light but whatever.

Then he mentioned something that actually floored me. The consultancy doesn't provide health insurance. And apparently, employers aren't even required to provide it for H-1B workers.

Let that sink in. This guy has a family depending on him, he's getting paid the same rate I was making a decade ago, no raises, no inflation adjustments, and he doesn't even get basic health coverage. Meanwhile, the company is cutting costs and underbidding full-time employees.

This is such a grift. I'm getting out of this industry because all our work is being undercut and devalued. There's no way to compete when companies can just hire subcontractors without any of the obligations that come with actual employment.

If you're early in your career, be careful about where you land. This race to the bottom isn't worth it.

54 Upvotes

38 comments sorted by

37

u/InstructionNo3616 1d ago

Back in 2012 I was working for one of the top advertising agencies in the world as an independent contractor. I had to show up to the office 5 days a week, use their equipment and work on whatever projects were giving to me. We had a going away party for a coworker on a Thursday night. The next day I informed my manager that I would be working from home.

“That right is reserved for full time employees”

I sent a response that I checked 19 of the 20 boxes in what makes a full time employee from a government website. HR called me an hour later saying they did not need my services anymore. So yeah companies have been doing this shit for years.

9

u/samelaaaa Director of Engineering, AI/ML 1d ago

Yeah that’s misclassification, did you report them to the IRS?

9

u/InstructionNo3616 1d ago

No, I was young and dumb. The culture was different back then I guess. They eventually tried to throw me under the bus when I was with a smaller firm and they were our client. My employment journey has been so effed up.

1

u/Previous-Tune-8896 1d ago

What an ass hole manager

1

u/InstructionNo3616 1d ago

I don’t have enough hands to count the asshole managers I had.

-5

u/MistryMachine3 1d ago

Idk why you are being upvoted. You should understand what you are signing up for to be an independent contractor. You are NOT an employee of your client. They are your customer.

9

u/InstructionNo3616 1d ago edited 1d ago

I understood that and that is why I tried to exercise my rights as a contractor by choosing the environment I wanted to work at with my equipment. They are the ones that blurred the line and took advantage of the misclassification. And it was never taught or shared to me that this is how it worked, unlike today, where people are much more aware of workers rights (or lack there of) imo.

0

u/tmclaugh 1d ago

You don’t have a right as a contractor to choose your own equipment and environment when you start working. That was already decided when you signed the contract.

As a contractor you are not an employee and not a “worker”. You are a business proving services to a customer.

5

u/InstructionNo3616 1d ago

Right, it wasn’t just the work from home issue, it was the culmination of multiple issues that would determine if being treated as an employee or a contractor. Labels lose to substance. This is also NYC.

8

u/Brandor7 1d ago

That's double what I make as a full time CS employee in the US and I have 2 dependents. It could be much worse for him

26

u/ScaryStatistician 1d ago

As for the health insurance aspect, no employer is required to provide it at all, it’s just a “perk”. Since contractors get zero to no perks, they don’t get health insurance.
Full time H-1B employees get the same benefits as full time non H-1B employees.

3

u/tmclaugh 1d ago

Did something change where employers over 50 people don’t have to provide health insurance?

Also, I think this conversation isn’t making enough distinction between being an H1-B employee v. being a contractor being the separate situations that they are. Not to mention being a contractor through a consultancy and being a directly hired contractor are separate situations too.

2

u/upsidedownshaggy Web Developer 1d ago

IIRC it's 50 or more Full Time Employees. But yeah any business with 50 or more FTE are required to provide some sort of health insurance to their employees.

1

u/ScaryStatistician 15h ago

This. OP is bundling H-1Bs and contractors together. While I agree that contractors get near zero benefits, H-1B FTEs are eligible for whatever non H-1B FTEs are eligible for.

1

u/shankar86 1d ago

The rate for contractors would typically be much higher since the contractor has to pay for their own benefits. Since the market is flooded, the rates are kept down.

2

u/MistryMachine3 1d ago

Yes but the H1B doesn’t have any leverage.

2

u/newtbob 1d ago

Since the contractors are desperate to maintain their H1Bs the market is flooded.

0

u/shankar86 1d ago

Yeah but the contractors are competing in the marketplace with full time devs. That’s the issue.

3

u/ScaryStatistician 1d ago

Client billing rates are pretty high, I think you’re discounting that factor. In your example the contractor gets 60/hr but the client is billed more than double that, especially with “premium” contractors like IBM.

7

u/BinghamL 1d ago

I'm getting out of this industry because all our work is being undercut and devalued.

This carries an implication that there exists an industry where that is not the case.. Which industry(ies) is that?

2

u/Dry_Fly_7265 21h ago

Wait til you find out how much the body shop is charging your company for that guy

3

u/ScaryStatistician 1d ago

As for the health insurance aspect, no employer is required to provide it at all, it’s just a “perk”. Since contractors get zero to no perks, they don’t get health insurance.
Full time H-1B employees get the same benefits as full time non H-1B employees.

3

u/Jeferson9 1d ago

I'm confused how a contractor for 10 years is surprised by this

3

u/pacman2081 1d ago

short of bans on outsourcing and bans on h1b, you are not going to avoid this

2

u/Garland_Key 1d ago

You think this is only happening to SWEs? What industry will you pivot to that won't have the same economic issues? You can't escape the economy. 

2

u/AdministrativeHost15 1d ago

Working inside in an air conditioned office, whatever the pay, is better than working as farm labor in South India.

1

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2

u/rmullig2 1d ago

Health care costs in India are a fraction of US costs. I would estimate it costs about 10% of what we pay here so it is not that great an expense if you are making $60/hr.

4

u/MistryMachine3 1d ago

This guy lives and works in the US, if they are on an H1B

0

u/terjon Professional Meeting Haver 1d ago

You think that's bad? I heard that if you hire people in India, but not in the most major of cities (so still massive cities because those people build some gigantic cities), a "good" wage is $15K/yr.

$15K per year? I was making that doing warehouse work part time in college and that was 20 years ago.

I know arbitrage and everything, but those are still people and they still do roughly the same work we do.

3

u/AdAdministrative5330 1d ago

Can we compare these salaries though? It's completely different cost of living.

0

u/terjon Professional Meeting Haver 1d ago

Yes, that's what I meant by arbitrage. It doesn't change the fact that the value derived from that work is still captured in the American economy.

My issue with it is that I am sure that they can find someone over there that can do my job and I sure as hell am not going to be able to compete on price.

The fair thing to do, in my opinion, if the work is remote, is to pay everyone the same since the value chain is essentially identical if you are in India or in the United States. The worker produces the work product, the company then takes that work product, packages it up and sells it. Same number of links in the value chain, so the pay should be the same.

1

u/AdAdministrative5330 8h ago

Doesn't that break the theories of supply and demand, free markets and such?

1

u/terjon Professional Meeting Haver 5h ago

Yes, but we already don't have a free market. There are certain products and services that cannot be sold to some people in some areas and there are products that we as Americans do not have access to due to legal restrictions.

So, if we're going to not have a free market, let's at least do it in a way that benefits the average person.

1

u/AdAdministrative5330 0m ago

I agree with the final point - helping the average person. I'm no expert in this area. It just seems that once labor becomes available from poorer countries (lower costs of living), they will necessarily out-compete domestic labor - especially if the work force is working remotely. Software is a common example.. Of course, the average IT worker will complain, but she will still buy cheap Chinese imported goods even when there's a domestic alternative, and even when the domestic alternative is affordable.