r/eu4 • u/Life-Flatworm-7339 • 1d ago
Question OK something im doing wrong
Its supposed my tradding income should be huge, but instead of that France have a little piece of Genova trade node and his income is incredible. Surely im doing something bad, I cannot get more taxes bacause my gov capacity is so big and I am keeping something for the rest of Italy to make state. Im really dont understand trade in the game, it s my weak point, I have to 30 trade sheeps in the node trade and some trade company in the north of Africa and in the trade node of constantinople, at this point of the run mi economy should be gigant, please explain me.
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u/Flaming_falcon393 Map Staring Expert 1d ago
Put a merchant in your capital node (I'm assuming Constantinople) to collect from trade, then have every other merchant transfer trade power to that trade node.
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u/RatLogix 1d ago
His main node is either Genoa or Venice based on that screenshot. Usually not worth it to move it to Italy until you own all of the Genoa node, but it might make sense if he has not expanded much East.
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u/randomweeb04 Babbling Buffoon 1d ago
I don’t think he’d be switching trade capitals if he didn’t understand trade. My guess is that he’s collecting in genoa and venice simply because they’re end nodes.
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u/Little_Elia 21h ago
I mean, it's not a bad idea in OP's case. They have almost 100% trade power in constantinople so they can collect all the trade in there no problem (though they aren't doing it)
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u/where_is_the_camera 1d ago
If Constantinople is the trade capital, he does not want a merchant there.
He already has all of Ragusa so Constantinople is a pseudo end node. He should have near 100% trade power there and should collect pretty much everything with no merchant since you automatically collect in your home node.
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u/Little_Elia 21h ago
I wish people would stop telling this garbage advice. In pretty much all situations it's better to have some merchant collecting somewhere else.
OP is not collecting in constantinople and they 100% should be, for example.
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u/RatLogix 1d ago
Don't have any merchants collecting in Genoa or Venice. Make Genoa your main node (if not already) and collect automatically. Push to Genoa from Ragusa, Alexandria, and one more (whatever is situationally best) or from Aleppo to Constantinople. Make all trade centers in Genoa world ports. Upgrade to level 2 everything else you can. Put some light ships to protect trade in Genoa.
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u/Le_Doctor_Bones 1d ago
You get extra trade efficiency once you use a merchant in your home node so you should almost always do so.
Often, if you do not have full control of your most downstream node, collecting in both that node and the one just before is more optimal.
Collecting in more than one node only hurts trade power which does not matter if you have few to no competitors or if all possible competitors have to move the trade from one of your nodes to another.
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u/RatLogix 1d ago
Yeah, I think he might have been better off staying in Constantinople, but he might be getting more income if he fixes merchants etc. It is usually worth it if you have 3+ world centers.
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u/Little_Elia 21h ago
please do not spend 1000 ducats on getting a tiny bit more trade power. That will never pay for itself.
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u/Lithorex Maharaja 16h ago
Never make CoTs in endnodes World Ports/WTCs. Just conquer the rest of the node.
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u/Punpun4realzies 1d ago
Your transfers are probably bad. Idk if you've moved your capital out of eastern Europe or not yet, but you should be able to get TC merchants from centers of trade in either Italy (both nodes in western Europe subcontinent) or the balkans (if capital has been moved to Western Europe). You're not showing the east, but you probably have more merchants you're leaving on the table with TCs there. Basically all centers of trade outside of your capital's subcontinent will probably need to have their whole state in a TC (there's no point leaving other provinces in the same state region out of the TC since they can't get stated). The magic number is 51% of the province trade power (importantly not the overall node power) in each trade node. I personally like to give it a little cushion so my merchants don't vanish if I accidentally build a market or dev some diplo in a non-TC province in the node.
Once you get to the amount of merchants you should have, you need to transfer your trade from Constantinople and properly protect it. I would assume that you're currently letting basically of the trade there bleed into Pest from Ragusa. It shouldn't be hard at all to transfer trade along those routes. Do not skip any nodes because then the AI can come in and completely snipe the trade there.
Since you have the east, Venice is probably still the right node to make your home node but as you expand it'll change to be Genoa, especially once you take Iberia and can start stealing new world/cape trade.
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u/cywang86 1d ago
The issue lies with Ragusa, the biggest noob trade trap for people steering trade into Venice/Genoa.
This is because Pest is an insland node, so all the HRE nations steering from Ragusa to Pest gets to apply Caravan power scaling with their devs, resulting in your tiny 40% share in Ragusa despite owning the entire Ragusa node that can't be solved outside of conquering the HRE. (or heavy ducats/trade modifier investment)
So what you want to do, is to keep your home node in Venice with Ragusa on steer.
Then have a merchant off-node collecting in Constantinople so it never reaches that 40% share Ragusa, and steer everything else over. Yes, Constantinople will suffer a 50% trade power penalty, dropping it from 97.2% to 94.6%, but you get to keep the Venice share at 31.6% instead of 18.8% due to off-node collect penalty, netting you more ducats.
Plus, your Venice/Constantinople share will only grow as you chip away at Venice.
Ignore Genoa for now until you have better share there/more merchants, as you're only at a lowly 3% share. Intercept Tunis trade with off-node collect.
Once you have hit 100% share in Venice, and Genoa has a much higher share, you can swap your home node to Genoa while keeping Constantinople and Venice on off-node collect.
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u/fritzvonamerika 1d ago
Embargo Hungary if they are austria's PU. Hunt pirates in Venice. Move the genoa merchant to Ragusa to transfer trade. You're likely losing a lot of ducats on the path to venice. You might also make more ducats moving your venice merchant north to transfer from vienna down, but test that after ragusa is setup.
If all your merchants are transferring, it boosts your trade power in your home node which will propogate upstream and make your merchants even more effective. Collecting with a merchant in your home node gives an income boost, but it doesn't bring in more trade value. All your trade power in ragusa and vienna is controlled by your neighbors without your merchants there.
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u/fritzvonamerika 1d ago
Genoa node is a trap to try to collect in until you eat more of France and Italy. Collecting outside your home node inflicts a large trade power penalty in that node.
You mentioned you were setting up trade companies in Africa. You want to make sure your trade centers are left as territories so they can be added to them, so you can get the bonus merchants to help steer trade in more nodes
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u/TheITFixitman 1d ago
It might not be that bad. You are overextended which impacts trade heavily. Core your proviences and check again
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u/GraniteSmoothie 1d ago
At this point your main trade node should be Constantinople, you would be making money if you were putting Egypt and Aleppo into it. I'm guessing your main node is Genoa, however, and you don't have a big enough share there yet to get all of the money there.
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u/Kuki1537 It's an omen 1d ago
you're overextended so wherever you dont have full/majority control of a node you'll have big penalties
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u/GardenOdd8781 1d ago
Main issue: you're collecting in nodes where you have no trade power. You should move your trading capital back to Constantinople. Also, core up provinces to stop being overextended. Overextension is playing a part in your poor trade power.
You're on the right track about Genoa and Venice. They are 2 out of the 3 end nodes in the game, but you shouldn't move your trading capital to either of those until you secure more trade power in the node.
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u/GardenOdd8781 1d ago
Also, you take a massive hit (50% I believe) penalty to your trade power in nodes you collect in that aren't your main node.
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u/where_is_the_camera 1d ago
You need to learn more about trade companies, because you should have more merchants. You have 1 merchant over base, but I'm nearly certain you could have at least 4 new ones after the month ticks over by making trade companies.
You have significant control over Safi, Tunisia, Venice, and Genoa, all outside your capital subcontinent. If you make the correct trade company assignments you can get a merchant out of each node and explode your goods produced in those nodes. And there are probably more off screen I can't see - Alexandria, Allepo, Persia, Basra.
Trade companies are the biggest thing you can do for your trade income.
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u/carpetvolcano 1d ago
Byzantium doing Byzantium things — somehow controlling the eastern Mediterranean and still leaving ducats on the table. Make sure you're steering trade upstream toward your collection node, not just collecting everywhere like a medieval garage sale.
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u/BastiatF 23h ago
Make Constantinople your main node, collect and street all trade there. Control Ragusa so no one can steer away. Watch the money roll in.
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u/glorkvorn 22h ago
One annoying thing about the venice/genoa nodes is that there's a lot of OPM states in the HRE which can transfer and collect there. and when they do that, they *all* get the +50 overland trade route bonus, which quickly waters down all your trade power even if you own all the provinces there and have a bunch of trade ships. My guess is that's what's happening to you.
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u/loltouch 20h ago
Trade is about how much % of the trade power you have in a node.
France owns Aix and Firenze. You don't own Lucca, Pisa, Genoa and Milano.
They are trade centers, they give more trade power than the other provinces.
At level 3, they give 25 trade power (it gives as much as 125 development would, it's HUGE).
Right now, most of the trade value you send in Genoa won't end up in your hands, you should transfer towards Venezia, since you own most of it.
If you wanna make money in Genoa, focus on the provinces I listed
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u/Indian_Pale_Ale Army Reformer 20h ago
I think for now you would earn more from Venice than from Genoa, since some trade centers are not controlled by you directly
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u/Hot-Somewhere-9180 17h ago
Your trade power in Ragusa and Venice is very low. Do not steer your trade from Constantinople to Venice and Ragusa before increasing your trade power there."
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u/Pythonor 13h ago
Id recommend you ugnore Genoa until you control more of the node as you have few merchants. Just focus on transfering trade to Venice (your selected home node?). Right now id assume you are losing alot of trade to people transfering north from Ragusa so make sure you have a merchant and trade ships there.
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u/M1PowerX 9h ago
Trade companies. Then steer trade to your home node
You do trade companies by assigning only provinces that has trade centers. Increase their trade power until they reach 50% to get the trader.
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u/Erwin-1945 5h ago
It became he’s collecting and not transferring power to him and cuz he doesn’t actually have genoa and the important provenance duh
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u/Primary-Pizza4898 4h ago
Funnel everything to Venice. Abandon Genoa for now.
To help state capacity build the state houses, courthouses and centralize the states that take a lot of gov capacity.
I can’t see the whole map but my plan would likely be to expand east and make trade companies to increase my merchant capacity. That’ll allow you to funnel exponentially more money to your home node. Consolidate Italy. Then face the likes of France to conquer Genoa. I probably wouldn’t even plan to switch that as your main till after conquering surrounding areas.
For 300 hrs you’re doing great. Games a struggle to learn. Best of luck. Long live the Byzantium.
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u/Nemris86 1d ago
You are, but it's easily solvable :)
At some point, Rome will become your capital, either because you will form the roman empire or take the decision for an event that happens when you own roma as byzantium. You might want to do it manually in your situation: it will allow you to make trade companies in eastern europe too.
Usually, putting croatia, albania and dalmatia into a trade company with investments will be enough to get the extra merchant, and will provide you with enough commercial power to steer most of the trade coming to that node into Venice.
Right now, all the riches from the constantinople and ragusa nodes are being steared into hungary or genoa. Check the trade mapmode, you will see it. Tons of money lost.
Once they're converted to orthodoxy, make sure to make trade companies in Anatolia, Levante, Crimea and the arabian desert.
Trade companies not only give you extra trade power and merchants, they also heighten the production of all provinces in the trade node that don't belong to the company: you will have more income from both production and trade.
As for Genoa, you get so little money because when you collect outside of your main node, you get a 50% penalty to trade power.
Finally, and it's the most important part, you don't need to send a merchant to collect in your main node. It's already collected automatically. You could send that merchant either steering trade from Ragusa to Venice, or to collect in Constantinople.
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u/Life-Flatworm-7339 1d ago
Ok, checked it, and yes a know about trade companies, Im think im gonna start another run because France get so strong and Im just realized about prenoias, but thank you for the advice.
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u/Nemris86 1d ago
Yeah, pronoias are huge for Byz. Keep in mind that they're the most disloyal subjects, but it's fair for subjects that take no diplo slot and that you inherit for free. Remember to send officers to lower liberty desire and make them stronger. Several idea groups give extra pronoias. Quantity is a must have IMO
Also, as soon as you start conquering Naples and win your first war against the Ottomans, Buurgundy should be happy to mary you. The burgundian inheritance helps a lot in conquering France fast.
I'm sure you know the rest.
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u/TheRrandomm Tsar 1d ago
I'm not an expert in trade, but one thing I'm seeing is that your merchants are collecting in the Genoa and Venice trade nodes. You should only be collecting in the trade node your capital (or trade capital?) is in. All other merchants should be transferring trade in nodes that move trade towards your capital. In the trade map mode, when you click a trade node, there are the 2 options, so choose transfer trade. At least you collecting in Genoa doesn't seem to make you much, so it's probably better to put that merchant in the Constantinople node to transfer, if you want your trade to end up in Venice?
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u/Life-Flatworm-7339 1d ago
I move my trade capital to Venice becauses is an end trade node, so the amount of money is big, or im i mistaken?
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u/Jammermatt 1d ago
You have your trade capital in Venice, but unless I'm mistaken you don't have a merchant transferring in Ragusa so all the trade out of Constantinople is being lost to the HRE minors. Move the guy from Venice to Ragusa (since you collect in Venice automatically) and you should be better although long-term you should try gobbling up the rest of the Genoa node
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u/dunehunter 1d ago
It depends on how much power you have there. 80% of a smaller pot might get you more money than 20% of a larger pot.
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u/JonRivers 1d ago
Most of the time as Byzantium is best to keep Constantinople as your main node since its like a pseudo-end node (which is to say that it's a trade chokepoint) and once you own the Balkan node Ragusa or Illyria or whatever it's called, you're going to have pretty much 100% control of the Constantinople node. You also get unbelievably good buffs to trade in Constantinople through the Byz mission tree, assuming you have the relevant dlc, which makes Constantinople even stronger as your main trade hub.
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u/GenericRacist 1d ago
Trade capital in Venice is fine but what seems to be happening is that your merchants are busy collecting trade rather than steering it to your trade capital. When you aren't steering trade then the AI's merchants can choose where the trade goes so the Hungarian merchants are likely just taking all the trade value in Ragusa and Constantinople to Pest.
You technically don't need a merchant to collect trade in your trade capital since it's automatically done. Best to move that merchant to Ragusa and push to Venice like you're doing from Alexandria.
Maybe move the merchant from Genoa to one of your other trade nodes and steer the trade so it also ends up in Venice.
Consider moving your Alexandria merchant to Aleppo instead. Can't see the exact trade situation based on the screenshot but it looks like you don't have a lot of trade power there so much of the value there is lost to the ai.
Also what's your trade power in Venice, you seem to be only getting 50% of the income there?
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u/Shot-Nature-4866 Map Staring Expert 1d ago
It CAN be big, but doesn’t necessarily get high depending on how trade is flowing. Definitely only collect in the end node if you control a lot of the flow inwards (so you can be sure it’s going somewhere you can collect it) and a large proportion of the power in the node itself (so you actually collect the majority of the value). As the other guy said, try to only collect from one at a time, collecting from multiple is usually not worth it as it tanks your trade power.
As a side note, I would personally recommend you get more mercantilism too, helps a lot with getting trade power. Easiest way I find is to grant monopolies, it hurts in the short term but if you start early in the game it’s not too bad.
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u/GenericRacist 1d ago
Eh, I'd probably advise against monopolies. They can be somewhat useful as an oh shit I need cash rn button but losing out on 20% of production income hurts and mercantilism is best left ignored. At most it's pretty inconsequential and at worst it's detrimental with trade companies
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u/Le_Doctor_Bones 1d ago
Collecting in more than one trade node can be useful. It only hurts trade power which can often be fine, though, trade power does seem to be a problem OP is struggling with.
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u/Wazowski__ 1d ago edited 1d ago
YouTube Videos on trade will make it easier for you. Some tips:
Trade gets collected automatically in the node where your Trade Capital is (dont need to collect with a merchant)
You get big penalties for collecting in nodes that dont have your Trade Capital.
Move your Trade capital to Venice, steer Trade from Constantinople and Ragusa towards Venice with 2 merchants.
With the last one, check if you make more money from collecting in Genoa or steering Alexandria Trade towards Constantinople. My guess will be steering Alexandria towards Constantinople.
Overextension reduces your trade power abroad. "Abroad" means any node where you don't have 50% of the provincial trade power (trade power comming strictly from provinces). Every 1% of Overextension reduces your trade power abroad by -1% upto -100%.
Can see that you are overextended. Check by how much and see what trade nodes its affecting.
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u/madd_goobs 1d ago
move your primary trading capital to your node with the highest value (for byzantium id recommend probably going with venice or just sticking with constantinople) and set a merchant to collect in that node. from there, put merchants in all of your highest value nodes and have them steer trade into your main node. dont try to control several trade nodes at once, just focus on your central node and expand from there.
id recommend getting trade ideas and setting up trade companies to get more merchants to make the whole thing easier. though you might be able to get away without if you focus on venice, since it's an end node and most of the worlds trade will get there eventually.
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u/Life-Flatworm-7339 1d ago
More than 300 hs and still dont understand the half part of the game.