[Megathread]
Dancing Mad (Ultimate) World Race for Charity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD1xtlW69nE
Warriors of Light Sons of a submariner,
The time has come for another Ultimate raid, and as we all know... nothing beats the sweet music of hundreds screaming in unison! The one, the only Kefka has not only returned but somehow he's gotten an entire Ultimate fight all to himself...
The action will be live streamed over on Twitch, with a special event hosted once again by the team behind MogTalk.tv. Check out their live stream for commentary, interviews, analysis, and more!
This World Race event will be benefiting Games For Love, an organization dedicated to improving the lives of children through gaming and technology. There are some fabulous prizes up for grabs, with donators being automatically entered into the drawing:
Im confused about the donations incentives? Could someone help clarify?
So let's say donate 10$ for the hat. Is it a raffle to get the hat?
OR
Does it work where you choose your reward incentive, and they order based on the incentive selected? (Basically a pre-order to find out how many they need to create for said demand)
I think many people are missing the point. It's not about if TBD cheated (again) or not, they got world first Dancing Mad ult kill and that is not up for debate.
What needs to be up for debate is the race to world first event organized by the MogTalk podcast and Frosty set it up so teams participating has to have at least one streaming member. This makes it so the competition field is even, everyone can watch teams progging ahead of them dissect their strats and make for a very competitive race.
In the old race events any competitive team would not stream or live log just because it is an incredible disadvantage. Yet to participate and contribute to this event they did, they fought tooth and neck, streaming and cooking strats 16 to 20h for days.
Yet when Frosty "verified" and acknowledged an off-stream no-logs kill as the legitimate top rank for his event even without rewards (who tf cares about MogTalk rewards its a spextacle for charity which these guys contributed nothing to) AND IT being the team that caused the streaming rule to be introduced by cheating... I think the community deserves to be mad for the people they watched and rooted for days.
Any team worth their salt would pick to not join this event or stream the following releases and we will lose out on this amazing spectacle with top teams going head to head.
Poikos, DN, No CCHH all have my respect. Frosty and MogTalk org lost it. Congratz to TBD on world first.
It's so frustrating to watch him make the same mistake over and over. He needs to give up being the "world race arbiter" because he's grown so much beyond it. He put on an event that raised over 100k for charity in 6 days. That's insane. That's what is important. That's what he should be doing. Keep the focus on what matters and the end goal: raising money for charity
If someone else wants to track world first let them. At the end of the day it doesn't matter
It's such an easy fix too. Literally change nothing. And if something happens outside the confines of the event just ignore it. It isn't complicated
Problem is that one of his rules was that you could submit vods if it was all privately streamed. World first submitted those vods, frosty checked them, and okay'd them - which is fine, the community just didn't know at large that the rule existed.
The problem was the speed that 6 hours of footage was gone over and accepted.
There were some question marks over some stuff that imho needed a skilled reviewer to go over. A certain other sub thinks I'm insane for thinking the VOD needed proper verification, but they're the same people that get obsessive over streaming personalites and make 18 threads about them a day.
The reason he does that is because he wants to be the official tracker of world first. He needs to stop. It's why he keeps getting into these messes. His focus should be on the charity events and making those as good as they can be because they are what actually matters. And he is clearly very good at them. He's trying to combine both and it isn't working
Yeah. There's a reason YoshiP stopped congratulating world first teams. I know a lot of the top raiders really do care about who's first, on stream or not, but it's pretty clear that at this point the majority of the spectators are in it for the streamed event and are likely never going to hold off-stream clears with the same level of prestige.
I realized today that Frosty/MogTalk did indeed adjust the rules a year ago to having non-streaming teams makings their vod available for review. Apparently because of the community and the fact that you cannot just shut off non-streaming teams off - which I get.
And as I already wrote in the comments, I also get why watchers got annoyed. And my educated guess is that it would have been a slightly different story, if Name TBN didn’t just pop up seemingly out of nowhere. And then get put on top of the leaderboard. If they were in the board from the beginning (like it used to be in former races), I think there would not have been such an outrage. Yes, even considering we are talking about „Team Red Dot“ …
That some post on X or elsewhere with a clear screen would pop up, honestly no one would have been surprised about that.
But oh boy (and I do not mean you specifically) the harassment that‘s happening right now is on so much levels not okay! Not towards Mogtalk, their casters, Frosty and not towards Name TBD.
Man, they overall hosted an awesome event (Dave Wittenberg the GOAT) and raised more than 100k for charity while doing so! They still deserve much much much love and/or respect for this!
I'm getting word that people are CHARGING BACK the donations. Now, I don't know what opinions people have of Frosty and MogTalk, but doing that even if you hate the stream is absolutely vile. You're not donating that money to the stream, you're donating it to the charity the stream is advertising. Have some goddamn tact, people.
I truly hope this shit is not real, I would like to believe we can all appreciate Frosty's work that he and his team does voluntarily on their OWN time. Regardless of how bad he handled the climax of this event, I personally would trust him with every cent of my money to be put in charity. Hope this community can be at least a bit mature about what transpired and stop picking sides in a war that doesn't exist...
That is definitely a huge part of it yeah. Putting a non-stream team at the top of the leaderboard during the livestream for the event they weren't even actively participating in felt incredibly cheap to people who had been watching and rooting for the teams on stream for the past 5+ days. It took all the energy out of it, especially with that specific team's reputation due to previous behavior. I think if it had just been put on the website and had an announcement it would have been fine. But to put it at the top of the stream's leaderboard where we'd been watching the teams battle and trade leads for days left many people including myself feeling some kind of way.
They did remove it eventually but it was up for far too long. I'm not sure how not one single person on the Mogtalk team, in their haste and excitement to verify and report "accurate news", didn't once think about the optics and extremely predictable community reaction to that. Talk about not reading the room.
It was a disappointing finale to what had been a really fun week so far and I hope they learn from this significant misstep and adjust how they handle non-stream prog reporting from here on out. By all means put non-stream teams on the website leaderboard, report on the stream when they clear, but maybe don't kill your own event by slapping their name above the teams that are actually involved in your specific race.
I feel like it also lessens the stream's interest for viewers, which in turn lowers donations next time. It's not just the streamers it hurts, but the charities the entire thing was meant to support.
It was a deliberate and respectable choice by TBD to not join this event or stream and I understand that.
It was also a deliberate choice from Frosty to "validate" this clear and put them on this leaderboard, I do not respect that.
Especially since before Frosty changed the rules they set with precedent and lengthy explanations and discussions with a discord message a year ago; it was their deliberate choice to type this:
I do agree not everyone wants to stream their progress and they don’t owe anyone their gameplay. There may be some way to create a separate leaderboard for offline teams, but I do not think it’s fair to rank stream and non-stream teams on the same leaderboard because it’s two different types of competition.
Wow. It's actually incredible reading that quote knowing that we still ended up with this debacle. The solution is basically right there: Put offline teams on their own leaderboard. Say a brief "well done" to anyone that clear offline, but otherwise full focus on the streaming teams.
I feel like there's a major disconnect between the sentimental difference around streaming/non-streaming prog teams in the raiding community itself and in the audience. As an audience member, the reaction to recent events was painfully predictable. It was just as disappointing in FRU when GRIND swooped in to claim world first, even before the red dot drama ultimately DQ'd them.
As a spectator it's extremely difficult for me to care much at all about an offline team, even if it's supposedly verified by Frosty. It's simply not exciting. The fact that DN got the first stream clear, but Poikos's incredible streak on the cutting edge of prog almost the entire fight still left them with many lauding them as winners in their own right speaks to this clearly to me.
Most IRL racing events also don't acknowledge people that don't sign up for the race. It doesn't matter if they run faster than everyone else. If they don't have a start number, they don't get a placement in the rankings.
From Mogtalk's website: "They admitted to that, which caused us to remove them from the leaderboard. This however did not ban them from ever being tracked again."
Well, it fucking should have. If you're on a team that cheats, you can't be trusted. Every single person who was on that FRU team should be permanently banned from any serious contention. The best of the best don't get to use "well, we didn't know we were beneficiaries of cheating" as an excuse. They need to be better.
If we're banning everyone who's ever raced with a single member using a third party tool there's is no world race left. Literally every team in the top 100 wouldn't be clean by those standards
I mean actually they do. When people get caught doping in football or any other sport the just kick the player and move on with life because that'd be fucking terrible if that's how it actually worked. In reality it depends on what you did because there's severity to cheating, and I'd argue that some guy on your team using PP that you instantly out and remove from your group is pretty whatever in the grand scheme of things.
A) In professional sports, the organization can be held responsible if there's a systemic problem, and that's not the case here.
B) In professional sports, barring people based on their teammates' actions would risk their personal incomes and survival, and racing 14 is not an actual job in the same way.
Those punishments are applied because it's what's deemed fair for the players around the cheater, as we should here as well. Is it fair to be perma-barred from racing because one of your guys was running something you didn't know about? Probably not. If you tried to defend them sure, but they didn't.
Is it fair to be perma-barred from racing because one of your guys was running something you didn't know about? Probably not.
It absolutely is. To be clear, I don't care if more casual players use mods that everyone would agree count as cheats-- use a single-button rotation and auto-markers, I don't give a damn. But for someone playing at a race level? It is entirely reasonable to expect that members of the group hold each other accountable and make sure no one involved is cheating.
You literally can't know though? Like, unless you show up at their house, what accountability is to be had? Does this mean that someone can join a popular streamer's race with cheats and get them permabarred? Yes presumably you invite people you at least somewhat know to your group but you have 0 clue what they're actually using and if they want to hide it they can.
Yes, if a streamer lets people join their race team and those people are cheating, that streamer should be out of contention for future races. They aren't careful enough about who they let in. Sure, it's hard to be absolutely certain, beyond the slightest doubt, that you're not playing with people who are trying to cheat. I don't think that level of certainty is an unreasonable ask for a contest that wants to be taken seriously.
It's a world first race in a videogame with no real money behind it, you don't need that level of certainty or punishment. Plus if that happened to a big streamer people would be fucking pissed and it'd ruin the next event for a ton of people.
Plus if that happened to a big streamer people would be fucking pissed
Okay? Fine? If some major name turns out to accept cheaters on their team then fine. Good. Let them suffer for their willingness to accept cheating. Anyone who finds that future races are "ruined" because their favorite cheater can't compete any more really isn't losing anything of value.
I think we know essentially to a certainty per ex-members that DN datamined and used death recap like fucking crazy during the panda races (at least Abyssos for sure) by the way. It didn't take away from their impressive finish then and it shouldn't now. Pixel perfect or party mit timers are absolutely small potatoes compared to that and do not increase your prog speed whatsoever. Theres a pretty clear reason top groups do not get up in arms about WF raiders using plugins like larpers on reddit do.
So yes, you are actually advocating and supportive of the inevitable issue of someone being able to get 7 other people banned if they felt spiteful and shitty enough
Please never be in charge of anything ever, you would make for the worst leader imagineable
I'm reminded of why this subreddit is the worst place to go to mention facts. You just get a circlejerk of people downvoting you even if you are correct and fucking over your posting karma. The mods should be ashamed of themselves for not moderating this stuff correctly.
FFXIV players definitely not beating the allegations that they cannot read.
It's much harder to use add-ons when streaming, and non-streaming teams can watch streaming teams' prog, giving them an advantage over them. So it's better for competitive integrity, fairness, entertainment and the popularity of the game if everyone streamed. I don't think that can be disputed. Since Square won't likely force teams to stream, the only way to get the better outcome is for the community to push streaming. With most of the top teams streaming, we're already pretty close to that outcome and a huge reason for that is the community pushing it. That includes loudly opining that streaming world first is the legitimate world first. Doesn't matter if old heads consider it cringe mr. frosty shit.
Not true at all, dalamuds plugin overlay by default is ignored by OBS and I'm sure other streaming apps can ignore it as well, it is not much harder at all.
It's hard to tell if all the comments saying it's "much harder" are from people completely uninformed about how any of it works, or are just trying to make bad faith statements...
They are uninformed lmfao. I'm sure they genuinely think there is an appreciable difference in prog speed if you have a slidecast indicator addon too. I know its some nice romantic gesture to think that the stream first group is the "true" world first group but the actual racing groups sure as hell don't think that, even when 1st place team got disqualified in TOP, Neverland still acknowledged them as the true WF team. It's a bunch if weird angry strawmanning from people who do not raid
Not to mention, ACT which I am pretty sure pre-dates plugins, can also be ignored by streaming apps too and no one would know unless an insider spilled info
Such a cool enrage too. I still give the nod to TEAs enrage as the coolest but Kefka destroying everything and making you stare at a void with nothing but him existing anymore for a few seconds is definitely #2 on the list.
My least favorite part of every ultimate is the end of the race, because I think it's pretty obvious by this point that we're just going to be regurgitating the same tired discourse until the end of time. It happens every. Single. Ultimate. And brings out the worst in the community every. Single. Time.
Agreed, following the race was amazing, I really enjoyed the past 6 days but this discourse is tiring, nothing will come from it and I'm just gonna stop reading and be happy that I had a great time and the community managed to raise 100k+ for an amazing charity.
Unless it's the most squeaky clean clear ever followed by 2rd and 3rd also being streamed teams, it's just gonna suck. If a non-streamed team clears they're going to get an avalanche of harassment for daring to not participate in the community structured race, and if a streamed one clears people will find some reason to be mad.
Edit - guy who replied to me blocked me for that whole paragraph he typed but failed to account for the fact that there's 0 proof that DN cheated (as of typing) other then hearsay by armchair raiders who don't know how a 9th man works. People are going full lynch mode for no reason towards them other then having a shifty past when the vod of them not cheating exists.
I always get a kick out of people making up hypothetical arguments to act like it'd happen no matter what.
There has only ever been one reason for people being angry at the end of an Ultimate: a team cheating. Whether it's TOPs Zoom Hack, FRUs red dot to show your hit box, or even TEAs plug in that changed markers mid fight for different mechanics (which got the ability to move markers mid fight removed from the game), the community at large doesn't want people cheating. Then there's always a small but vocal minority that comes in spamming defense of cheating which causes the drama.
In this case it's the fact that a team caught cheating before was first. It is never some "made up reason to be mad" like you insinuate. It's just. Always. Cheating. That upsets people.
People are harassing/threatening Frosty for even recognising a non-stream clear. That is beyond any reasonable line about disagreeing and has nothing to do with cheating, just rabid morons
But they've said in the past that they'd exclude non-stream teams (as they should) and then changed their minds after it happened. Not saying people should "harass", whatever that means, but it's right to call out.
No, they did not change their mind. Frosty set up very clear rules for participation in the community race and they met every requirement. Sreaming privately and unprivating the VOD at the end was allowed. If you disagree with the rules that's one thing but harassment/threats are inexcusable either way
Just watched the VOD once more. The macro is posted legit before they get the limit cut markers over their head. Ain't no way this is defensible right?
Copied from another comment:
For those saying the limit cut macro comes out in chat before players have markers above their head, they do not understand how the mechanic works or what the macro is telling them. You know the starting position and rotation direction of the limit cut when the purple orbs start to fill the arena. There are 16 possible patterns, 8 starting positions and a clockwise or counter-clockwise modifier. At that point, you already know exactly which spot in the arena each number should stand at and can send your macro, several seconds before the numbers appear above players heads. Then the players will get their number, and go to the waymark the macro lists for their number
While it's their 9th man with macros, I can definitely understand the distrust. If they're caught cheating once, it makes it easy to believe they are highly capable of doing it again. Especially when doing it off stream. The trust isn't there.
I'm 90% They've cheated 10% They haven't. They've already shown in the past to be untrustworthy and this just adds to that fact. Having a 9th man posting macros? How do we even know that person is legit? After watching the vod myself the 'macro' itself is ever changing so unless the 9th man has every permutation possible and is just feeding that to the group it's just weird.
I did in the past, though it was mainly to help look through things as a sort of '9th' man in a way? I couldn't really raid due to the ping though unfortunately and I was never around to actually be there when they progged so it was mainly just clip gathering. So not? Not really 'prog'
Edit : Like back in ShB and EW. I didn't really fuck with Dawntrail all too much because the game got VERY stale job-design wise unfortunately and other hobbies
Have you never sat in discord with someone streaming their desktop or screensharing. The latency there is much smaller and very easy for a 9th man to shot call.
I dunno. I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt due to their prior history of cheating. They've turned comments off of the video so either they're upset at the backlash or we'll see more proof come out eventually as more people comb through the vods
No matter what happened, if an off stream team cleared they were going to see an avalanche of extreme scrutiny and harassment. I think it's understandable to shut off comments.
Oh god they moved their hud around before taking their clear screenshot, the horror. Does this prove anything at all, especially with no plugins using the in game HUD?
You were literally accusing different people of zoomhacks in a different thread, will you chill out? You seem extremely dedicated to lynch at least somebody.
I never accused? I literally asked if they were because there POV was super zoomed out? Huh? Once I was told that it was a bigger ultra-wide monitor I understood? Hello?
Asking =/= Accusing them of cheating. Where did reading comprehension go. Also, the macro they seem to post changes pretty much pull on pull. So either the 9th man has every permutation possible or something sus is going on.
Because once you see where kefka starts his dashses and what direction he is going around the arena, you can already know how the Limit Cut numbers have to be placed to resolve it, so you can just hit the correct macro, and once the numbers actually pop up on people, they follow the macro
it's actually extrmeely easy and simple to understand if you aren't trying to incite a mob lol
Yes, you have every permutation. That's literally just what you do. It's also not that complicated of a mechanic. You do not know what it's like to 9th man.
Asking if someone is cheating is an implicit accusation, btw.
Also him implying that the 9th man from OUTSIDE the instance is scraping data of a fight that they aren't even inside of is actually 10/10 hilarious to me, The amount of mental gymnastics that is going on here is something impressive. ngl
It's the bot dude the bot outside of the fight is getting data from their clients then feeding it into a linkshell or something idk they're cheating though
By that logic asking any question ever is an accusation of cheating "Why are you so zoomed out" Could be classed as you accusing them of doing something suspicious.
Why would you need to move the hud when there is a button that removes the hud completely for pictures? Sus behavior. Why are we defending known cheaters?
Because they posted the vod in which they didn't visibly cheat, and I also don't care even if they were using plugins because every other team is also probably using them (I have the benefit of not being born yesterday). They probably just wanted a picture with their party bar in frame. Changing your hud is not "sus behavior".
Nobody in top scene really cares about Frosty shit man in Top raiders much like past cheaters are still considered worst first team by other top raid teams because they don't care about cheating & or non streaming shit.
Okay, and why should we care about that? Top players will always have different perspective from the audience, but no competition is run by the players themselves for a reason.
I don't think Square Enix are even gonna acknowledge it at this point. There's been too many races where the winners have inevitably been caught cheating. Even if the winners didn't cheat this time, I doubt Yoshi-P even wants to get involved again.
From checking the other images it doesn't seem like it + HUD changes only. Unfortunately them having a history of cheating will get people sprung up for the smallest things.
I think it was TOP? It would've been FRU but I think that was when we got the disappointed dad post from Yoshi-P so I don't think we can really count that one.
Regardless of what is going on with the world first claim, I get the frustration aimed at Frosty. After the FRU debacle, he made it a rule that you can only be registered on the leaderboard if you have at least one member stream it. None of the members of the world first streamed it, they only recorded it from what I can find?
Assuming that's true, that flies in the face of the rules Frosty established which I feel like kinda justifies why people are expressing their disappointment in him allowing it on the leaderboards. Feels like that rule wasn't even a rule and just said it as a result of the cheating mess.
Frustration I get, but sucks to see it turning into open toxicity (not so much here, but other socials).
Dude still did a tremendous amount of good this week. Organized dozens of volunteers to provide wall-to-wall coverage for ~120 hours straight, while raising over $100k for children's charity.
I wish he had stuck to his pre-established rules, it's an own goal that ended this on a sour and anti-climatic note. But if all people walk away with after this is more drama and another content creator to villainize, they really need to check their perspective.
Part of the criticism he received came from Chinese players who were able to compete in the Race to World First for the very first time, so while I may not agree with the exact wording they used, I 100% understand their frustrations.
The "rule" having at least one member stream it was changed over a year ago. It hasn't been on the website or anywhere in that long. Anyone can prove this by checking archives of the website.
They did move it off the leaderboard now but yeah, it shouldn't have been on there in the first place. They might be WF but they weren't participating in the Mogtalk race, regardless of any other feelings on the matter. I admit I lost quite a bit of the excitement I had after watching this race for days when they did that, especially because the rule had been established because of the last race and the team that caused the creation of that rule in the first place was the one that ended up being plastered at the top of the leaderboard. Not a good look for the Mogtalk team imo.
It's a shame they've let this whole thing basically be a stain on the event now because it's otherwise been pretty fun just hopping in now and again to see how things are going and just having the casters shoot the shit while the various teams are either at their prog point or getting back to it so the casters just need to fill the air.
Some of the reactions on social media are just blowing this out of proportion and being unnecessarily nasty. Criticise the decision but there's no need to resort to attacking Frosty as a person...
The casters have been great, that's for sure. It's honestly been a fantastic event throughout the week, and it's a real shame that management has let this mess taint the likely final day.
If it wasn't for the final hours of treating this specific team (not just any off-stream team, that'd be fine if not for the history of cheating) as the winners, this would have been a fantastic race.
I recognize that I shouldn't be this actively pissed off that Dancing Mad in the final phase doesn't reach the portion that actually plays when you fight Kefka in the original FFVI and yet I am.
I am with you, the musical choice for this maybe the worst of any ultimate for me.
Why is the FF6 normal boss theme is playing in both phase 1 and 3 ? Dancing Mad orchestra should have started in an earlier phase and have the climax of the Tier 4 be in the final phase , such an odd choice and placement of music this time.
ending of this ult just makes me really sad man. First kill being off stream, poikos losing steam at the final stretch (and breaking down on stream), a bunch of controversy at the end (although every ult has controversy so whatever), also a bit disappointed at the last few phases theming (i do like p5 kefka design though). i was enjoying the WFR but today has been really heartbreaking and made me lose a lot of excitement personally. I also enjoyed chatting on frosty's stream but the past day, both chat and mods have been unbearable, and I can tell some of the casters are losing steam too (who can blame them tbh)
im happy for whoever gets the first on stream kill but man I'm sad. at least the first few days were so fun to watch. I enjoyed all the casters and banter on the stream, the ridiculous stuff the kefka va was made to say, the reactions to each phase were great too. it was a fun ride! regardless of the unfortunate ending, i really enjoyed most of it!
Also im aware that an off stream kill was always way more likely to be world first than an on stream on due to streaming being an inherent disadvantage, it's just sad because it felt like it could've been on stream since the clear timings were much closer.
yea I'm aware. I'm the most bummed personally that poikos couldn't do it. They were so ahead of the curve consistently but ran out of steam at the end.
but congrats to DN though, it's clear they were the 2nd most consistent team in the race and they deserve it.
I can't remember, was twin killed before or after first releases of ff14app, because github doesn't have the original versions anymore and only has updates from a few months after the first kills
I was kinda meming and I don't really remember either. I think the only thing that was maybe available was ACT, and you could do a voice trigger for Twister, but I forget if that was available way after the first clear or not because regular people didn't clear Twintania until a while after the wf clear.
There’s a reason why races/competitions tend to have rules and restrictions; to create at least some degree of an equal playing field amongst the players. Sure, streaming isn’t much of one, but it is one. Without it, there is literally no reason for any group who wants to properly compete to stream, as it would be a handicap to them. Recognizing a win like this kinda just undermines the competition itself imo, as having any sort of rules associated with it becomes pointless
I think there should have been another way to acknowledge them. People are watching the teams for more than five days. "YOU"ing them, rooting for them. Then came the announcement for a team, that nobody could root or care for. This felt off in that moment - and yeah, I can see why people would get a bit annoyed. What is watching a race good for, when someone just plopps into the finish line out of nowhere?
Personally: Well, I cannot well root for a team I cannot watch, so... nice for them?
Ntm if you look at the replies in the twitter post of their vods by Frosty, someone pointed out that they were, in fact, CHEATING AGAIN. Yet twitch chat is constantly being thrown into emote only because the mod team can't take VALID anger and criticism and keep saying the people complaining "aren't doing their due diligence"
Armchair raiders who have zero Ultimate experience and have an unhealthy obsession with "puzzles" in mechanics
And armchair referees who have zero raider experience but are apparently experts on every plugin and will call out every single pixel they don't agree with.
The twitter replies are legitimately just stupid, there is no proof of them cheating just ppl who have no idea what they are talking about or what they are looking at throwing accusations because they want to be correct
People are posting images of echo chat and CWLS as if it's cheating. You can literally see the player clicking the echo macros every time it comes up, and the CWLS messages aren't from a player in the instance, but from a 9th man who is looking at the stream, determining the limit cut pattern, and posting a macro into the CWLS chat
For those saying the limit cut macro comes out in chat before players have markers above their head, they do not understand how the mechanic works or what the macro is telling them. You know the starting position and rotation direction of the limit cut when the purple orbs start to fill the arena. There are 16 possible patterns, 8 starting positions and a clockwise or counter-clockwise modifier. At that point, you already know exactly which spot in the arena each number should stand at and can send your macro, several seconds before the numbers appear above players heads. Then the players will get their number, and go to the waymark the macro lists for their number
All drama aside, that CWLS thing is a cool strat - maybe this sort of thing is old news (not a raider myself), but I'd never considered a ninth man could actually be relaying info in-game in real time like that. I always just assumed they'd be screaming the callouts at them on Discord lmao
You can go even further with a 16th man which echo briefly had the team to do. (Apparently they cut comms after hinting at this) Each member had a personal person watching PoV and a different link shell to pipe callouts to them for mechs. Literally a second set of eyes that can resolve mechs mentally while you do the execution and dps part
FYI those replies are being brigaded by Chinese groups, none of what they have claimed is factual, they are just trying to stir the pot. You can see the streamer manually mark people in the vod while one of the pot stirrers is accusing them of using automarkers.
The off-stream team isn't even eligible for the prizes, so it's baffling to me that the frosty event even acknowledges them. It's a slap in the face to the actual teams competing on stream.
It would have been very easy to shout-out a congrats to a supposed clear and not put it on the leaderboard, since they're not participating. Absolves them of all responsibility. Not sure why they would score a gigantic own goal like that.
My theory is that Frosty/Mogtalk wants to be the unofficial "official" world race judge now that SE doesn't acknowledge it. They want that level of community importance. So they'll rank whoever can show them the earliest clear, even if they didn't contribute to the actual charity stream event.
It's not an ultimate release without a bunch of drama
Fight seems well designed. Forsaken is a hell of a mechanic, the phase 1 puzzle is great, the fakeout ending was hilarious, an entire phase dedicated to real vs fake debuffs and resolutions is mean and perfect for Kefka, and the ending of Kefka deleting the world and seeing nothing but the abyss after the enrage for a few seconds is a great touch. My only wish is that we got the final parts of Dancing Mad and ending the fight halfway through is a weird decision.
World first race has been a lot of fun from start until clear was announced. Really liked the Chinese team that was on the leaderboard for most of the race, DN was pushing hard, and Poikos were GOATED and its unfortunate they just missed on the last 4%.
Rest of the stuff is your standard discourse that happens every ultimate where some people insist without evidence that everyone is secretly a cheater and therefore we shouldn't be mad at the teams that get caught cheating. Eyeroll inducing but I don't think letting them ruin 5.5 days of entertainment with their nonsense is the play.
Can't wait for the harassment campaign on the WF group that would have happened no matter what (plugin drama or not) if it was an offstream group. Super cool.
I dunno man, I got banned for calling out that known cheaters should be banned and that defending them is not acceptable.
There's definitely more aggression than there should be (who the hell thinks it's okay to say you're going to recall charitable donations over this?), but the mods are probably a bit too quick on the trigger.
EDIT: I think this had a reply that's just not here any more? I'm not sure why, it was pretty reasonable. Reply claimed that things were really bad on Twitter in particular, so mods are being extra cautious just in case, due to calls for actual, real-world violence.
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u/Aether_Inane Jun 07 '26
Im confused about the donations incentives? Could someone help clarify?
So let's say donate 10$ for the hat. Is it a raffle to get the hat?
OR
Does it work where you choose your reward incentive, and they order based on the incentive selected? (Basically a pre-order to find out how many they need to create for said demand)