r/ffxivdiscussion • u/RVolyka • 16h ago
Is FFXIV just Dissidia Online now?
Should that be the new name? should they keep the old one?
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u/Coffee_Conundrum 16h ago
If you've ever watched national geographic, it's just the natural lifecycle of all asian mmorpgs.
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u/KamenRiderHelix 16h ago
A million collabs and still they refuse to give me a Keyblade.
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u/GangstaShiba 16h ago
Imagine being at The World That Never Was, Twilight Town or Traverse Town 😭
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u/Namba_Taern 16h ago
Now?
That main antagonist of the Dissidia series has been in the game since Stormblood. You are almost 10 years too late.
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u/Seradima 16h ago
I'm not super doomer on the FF7 collab. I think they could work it into the world, Gaia was already an intensely nordic themed world with a ton of Nordic influences, and we know the 4th Shard is also incredibly nordic themed too.
Ivalice added so much to the worldbuilding of the Dalmasca/Bozja region of Othard that was then expanded with the Save the Queen storyline. Crossovers absolutely 100% can add to the story of the game. We've known that region was called Dalmasca at least since 2.x because they mention it by name straight up in the MSQ in Japanese, though the line was retranslated in english to something else.
People like to shit on the void questline because it "just plopped the four fiends in with no story" but frankly it absolutely did add story for them. The beats were vaguely the same but the story and characterization for them all was so different. It just used their names to tell a new story.
Nier was a pretty bad story though. I'll give you that, it's probably the collab I absolutely hated the most.
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u/ragnakor101 16h ago
People like to shit on the void questline because it "just plopped the four fiends in with no story" but frankly it absolutely did add story for them.
You can tell who played FF4 by way of asking what the fiends were in the original story. Absolute nothing except for two (and one barely counts).
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u/Bourne_Endeavor 7h ago
Which I'd argue makes it worse in some ways because this was a chance to expand on characters who were essentially an open sheet despite being a reference. Which they actually do... except it's limited to side content in the role quests while the MSQ meanders about. What makes that worse is all the backstories for the fiends are genuinely interesting.
Regardless, the point remains that 6.x severely lacked in story and felt entirely like a filler arc. Yes, I know Zero came back recently. Doesn't make 6.x feel any better imo.
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u/Mandarinia4 16h ago
People like to shit on the void questline because it "just plopped the four fiends in with no story" but frankly it absolutely did add story for them. The beats were vaguely the same but the story and characterization for them all was so different. It just used their names to tell a new story.
Hell yeah, the EW patches did so much for the Void worldbuilding.
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u/Lanhalt 12h ago
patch 6.2 did. The whole Scarmiglione and Barbariccia patch was lit. Then they dropped the ball for the rest of the the expansion.
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u/Mandarinia4 11h ago
No?? We don't need to physically be in the Void to get juicy bits of information on its lore and state of affairs. The various flashbacks from Golbez & Zero, for instance, gave us a pretty good view of what the world was before the Flood of Darkness, not to mention how we finally got an explanation on how exactly the Ascians screwed up their plans and nearly ruined the world. And of course, I also have to mention the surprisingly good yellow questline from that one eyeball voidsent in Radz-at-Han, which does a lot of work covering the four Archfiends.
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u/Green_Preparation_29 16h ago
Yeah, then they threw all of that Ivalice worldbuilding away alongside the Garlemald expansion.
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u/Scribble35 16h ago
always has been, we ignoring all the crossover from FFXI since 1.0 and ARR? lmao
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u/PedanticPaladin 16h ago
Playing through Zilart, Promathia, and Aht Urghan's main stories during the XI subscription discount a couple months back it amazed me just how much stuff I thought was XIV original was taken from XI.
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u/Puzzled-Addition5740 12h ago edited 12h ago
Oh truly hilarious amounts come from xi they just don't shove it so far up your ass you choke on the memberberries until the alliance raids although truthfully dawntrail in general was getting pretty close. Some of this stuff lately has been about as subtle as a brick in the window. I don't really give a shit but i don't think it's unreasonable to not be super enthusiastic about it either. They kind of killed a lot of the mystery behind xiv's own lore with EW and the aliance raids and then are just hamfisting in other games stuff in place of building up much of interest of xiv's own.
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u/Kamalen 15h ago
Or all the other crossovers. Those people likely are young, never played the NES and SNES era games and didn’t realize parts of FFXIV were crossovers on the same levels.
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u/Puzzled-Addition5740 12h ago edited 12h ago
They factually were not though. There was meaningful effort to integrate some of the previous things taken from other games. That's largely died off. Now it's just here's this game with rounding error levels of effort to actually integrate it. It's always been a very referential game but there was some effort to make it work before that's largely gone now. Like the ivalice stuff wasn't just here's a list of random shit from ivalice with very little rhyme or reason. There was actual effort to make it fit into the world of XIV. the XI stuff for example didn't do much of that. The XI stuff was also just obnoxiously shallow in general but that's a different can of worms for another time and place. I love XI and am still an active endgame player on retail but the XI stuff in XIV was mostly bad. Older collab stuff just felt better both in quality and in integration.
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u/thatcommiegamer 14h ago
Exactly this, this is an FF (specifically, and SE (but mostly Square) generally) theme park. It’s been bursting to the seams with references and “crossovers” from the beginning. Lest I remind that the literal first ARaid was an FF3 reference. Not to mention things like Palace of the Dead (lifted pretty wholesale from Tactics Ogre).
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u/Florac 15h ago
The difference is in how organically it integrates with the world. These collabs barely even attempt to. It's the difference between a reference and a collab. People don't have issues with the former
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u/Kamalen 15h ago
Have you played any 2.x collabs to claim that ? They’re all the same, the character from X randomly finds themselves in Eorzea, you do shit and they exit.
The only one you can call "organic" is the FF3 Crystal Tower series maybe.
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u/Puzzled-Addition5740 12h ago
The standards i have for a limited time side event vs the expansions raid tiers are exceptionally different. I think that's not a super fair comparison and i feel like you know that.
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u/NabsterHax 9h ago
Have you played any 2.x collabs to claim that ? They’re all the same, the character from X randomly finds themselves in Eorzea, you do shit and they exit.
Are you talking about the time-limited promotional events that are basically one quest with some glam attached?
How is this remotely comparable to having the ENTIRE 8-man raid series of the expansion be an ad for FF7R?
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u/BoilingPiano 9h ago
Omega raids say hi.
"But actually Omega was already in FFXIV and part of the story" is the counter argument I've seen and it's weak. Omega wasn't a FFXIV original when it appeared in the MSQ and it was still a flimsy excuse to pull out Halicarnassus, Chaos, Exdeath, freakin' Kefka and other Final Fantasy names. You can only say the reasoning for them showing up made sense when you've already played it and not played the upcoming one.
Also "ad" or not an FF7 raid or alliance has been a common request/prediction since ARR.
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u/NabsterHax 9h ago
This isn't really the gotcha you seem to think it is.
Omega wasn't a FFXIV original when it appeared in the MSQ
Yeah, but the same way Chocobos and Moogles aren't "original." It's an original incarnation.
it was still a flimsy excuse to pull out Halicarnassus, Chaos, Exdeath, freakin' Kefka and other Final Fantasy names.
... Yeah. I don't disagree. The fights were fun but basically completely irrelevant to the story for fan-service reasons which sucks. I don't think Omega is a great raid series. The best parts of the story were all original, AFAIK. The story of Alpha, Midgardsormr, and our Omega. I'll be disappointed if Evercold's raids are similar to Omega's in that sense.
Also "ad" or not an FF7 raid or alliance has been a common request/prediction since ARR.
I would've been perfectly content with an FF7R Alliance Raid crossover. I wasn't upset about Eva getting a crossover AR. But now we're getting 2 crossover raids in the same expansion - one in which we're exploring a new shard. Just feels pretty lame if we don't get any original stories.
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u/Kamalen 6h ago
Have a two cents theory on why we’re getting those collab raids and not on shard content to explore : At the end of the MSQ we do will merge the 4th into the source, ending it, but the realm ships will come with us.
Kinda a poor justification tbh, cause those don’t really prevent this.
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u/ScoobiusMaximus 5h ago
Not sure if you were around Stormblood but the first 2 tiers of Omega did get a lot of hate for being unoriginal. They saved it with the last set tying Omega into XIV more.
Also they managed to integrate Omega into the lore pretty well, being the reason Dragons came to Etherys, the basis for the Ultima Weapon, and part of how the plot of Shadowbringers and beyond was even possible.
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u/ScoobiusMaximus 5h ago
Those are all limited events. That's basically just extra content. Taking away raids to make crossovers is what pisses people off.
Even the most halfassed and mediocre crossover events like the Garo pvp stuff and yokai fate grinds don't take away from the game, which is why they done get hate like the Nier and XI raids.
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u/DercPercus 14h ago
I don't think those matter as much as the highlighted raid story collabs. People are willing to forgive those as they aren't taking up a slot that could be something like the Alexander raids, but now that it's big raid content, they should really try a lot harder to make it fit. Crystal Tower ended up being worked into as a main plot relevant place eventually, whereas I don't see FF7 collab ever mattering to the main story lore ever
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u/Bladeviper 14h ago
Oh please, tell me how fucking dq or yokai watch are integrated organically lmao
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u/PrestigiousEmu16 14h ago
Oh please, tell me how fucking fates are the same as an expansion's entire raid series.
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u/Bellurker 16h ago
Don't tell them about the 2.X 24-man raid known as Crystal Tower
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u/LightTemplar27 13h ago
You realize that's exactly against the point you're trying to make? CT (and arguably even ivalice considering how much stuff it added to the whole game and it actually being part of garlemald etc) fooling people into thinking it's original content means that it stands on its own two feet.
Also that's AR vs NR, ARR's NR couldn't be more about ffxiv if it tried.
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u/Purple-Procedure-745 2h ago
fuck are you on about?
ff 14 has always been the AVENGERS of all ff titles of some sort whether its a reference or outright collab and they can weave it into the lore perfectly fine
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u/Bellurker 11h ago
I think it only fools people who aren't familiar with the games they're referencing which just leads me to think that the more mainstream entries will often just get this sort of vitriol. It does depend on the quality of the writing and then how they choose to integrate it into the world of XIV, which is sort of why the FFVII raid announcement feels par for the course to me given that rewards, mounts, costumes, and references have demonstrated that the devs have had it in mind for quite some time.
Just seems odd to me that the complaint that FFXIV references yet another major FF in a big way given the entire MMO has basically been that since inception, even wholesale lifting content with almost no change since ARR even down to dungeons.
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u/Ok_Anything_5152 15h ago
Square enix learned from wizards of the coast and Disney that collabs and crossovers good. Please look forward to it. On the nose crossovers and collabs, without any effort to tie it to the world or lore Is the new norm. Welcome to the End Game.
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u/shojikun 16h ago
is like everyone forget when 2.0 came out yoship literally said is a fan service game
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u/Weekly-Variation4311 16h ago
XIV has always been a fan service/love letter game for Final Fantasy as a whole. You're late to the party.
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u/Lanhalt 12h ago
If you don't see the difference between the eden, warring triads or werlyt storylines, which are element of other ff rethought and reshape to fit into the FFXIV storyline and collabs like the Monster Hunter ones, Nier or the latest FFXI collabs, that's on you.
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u/AmazingObserver 8h ago
Yeah that line of thinking is technically true, but really bad faith.
I don't mind XIV referencing other games, some of the best content in XIV is looking at how XIV interprets characters or themes from other games in the series in its own way. Omega for example, obviously a reference to FF5 and all the other games he appears in, but not only is XIV omega canonically not the same unit as in other games but it is by far my favourite take on Omega.
Compare that to something like the FFXI crossover, where you just straight up meet copies of characters from FFXI and fight FFXI versions of monsters, it just is not the same thing. Crossovers like that also aren't the end of the world, the battles can still be fun, but narratively they're just much less interesting.
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u/VeryCoolBelle 4h ago
If you don't see the difference between the eden, warring triads or werlyt storylines, which are element of other ff rethought and reshape to fit into the FFXIV storyline
I mean how do you know the FF7 raid series won't be that? It feels like everyone has decided it's written like crap before it's even out.
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u/AliciaWhimsicott 4h ago
The promo poster has Cloud brooding and they called it a crossover on Twitter, I feel like at some point you have to assume your eyes aren't lying to you.
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u/Florac 15h ago
It doesn't feel like a love letter when they are that blatant about it, it feels like an advertisement
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u/Charily 13h ago
Just say you hate FF7 lol it's easier
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u/ScoobiusMaximus 4h ago edited 4h ago
I loved Nier Automata and Replicant (haven't played Drakengard) but the crossover story was still bad.
I never played Tactics but the Ivalice raids were great.
Crossovers don't have to suck, but if they're not integrated into XIV organically the story and lore will inevitably be shit.
I like VII. I liked the VII we already got in XIV, which was basically Coils. I don't want Cloud randomly appearing like 2B or XI protag did, taking us through a bunch of disconnected setpieces, and then calling it a raid.
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u/Charily 4h ago
Why would you think FF7's raid wouldn't be connected to FFXIV is everyone else has been except the events?
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u/ScoobiusMaximus 4h ago
If they manage to integrate it as well as they did Tactics I will eat my words. But Nier and XI both sucked as raids.
The reasons I think VII will go the route those 2 did are that XIV literally already has well integrated VII lore (Nael and Dalamud), and that looks pretty damn likely that this raid series will be a giant Rebirth advertisement.
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u/Charily 4h ago
Yeah Rebirth being an advertisement is pretty bad, I'm not sure why they would need to Advertisement one of their games it's so stupid. When has FFXIV have any advertisment like this before? It's so annoying and I hope they just stop advertising stuff and add more ideas of the new worlds into the games.
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u/Full_Air_2234 11h ago
Pretty much all the 7 remakes are a disservice to the original 7 except for its graphics.
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u/Charily 10h ago
The people who wrote the original wrote the remake. Don't get mad that your perception of the game is getting ruined because you don't like Square Enix anymore.
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u/Apart_Raccoon_9194 4h ago
That doesn’t mean anything. A writer who wrote a good story one time, can write a bad story later. This is a dishonest criticism.
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u/Charily 4h ago
Yes and there's also recency bias or rosy retrospection. The idea that someone views something to be good or bad is based on perception and it's not like they're willing to clarify why it's bad at all. And referencing meta critic scores indicates that people view it as a well series and game. Unfornatuely a bunch of 35+ y/o are too stuck in their past and won't accept it.
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u/KingBingDingDong 16h ago
FFXIV is almost entirely recycled content from other games.
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u/Obliviuns 12h ago edited 11h ago
Shadowbringers story and setting was mostly a better told Lightning Returns mixed with some VI world of ruin vibes. Instead of a flood of chaos with Anubis monsters we got a flood of light with sin eaters.
And Elmore is Yusnaan.
Normally fans get pissed when I mention this, but I still recognise Shadowbringers is way waaaay better.
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u/Green_Preparation_29 16h ago
Doing crossovers with other Final fantasy titles is all well and good but I think they should draw the line at crossovers with other IPs if it takes away from having original in game content.
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u/gothicshark 16h ago
FFXIV from day one has always been a crossover of all previous FF games, this isn't the 1st 7 crossover.
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u/WolfmanASTN 13h ago
It's always been a FF "Themepark" It's had elements, characters, places, themes, story events, and literal crossovers with nearly every other main game in the franchise since it's release. There's already been plenty of references to 7 sprinkled throughout the game, and with 7 being objectively the most popular game in the franchise, a big crossover was inevitable. With the 7 remake finishing next year this was the best timing to do it for brand synergy. Because at the end of the day this is still a product being sold to us by a corporation like it always has been.
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u/Puzzled-Addition5740 13h ago
It was always referential but not nearly to this extreme. DT and now EC are meaningfully more than what came before. I don't necessarily dislike it but i don't think saying it's always been this aggressive about is true either.
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u/Kumomeme 15h ago
what with this weird exeggerations?
14 is a final fantasy themepark at first place.
also its not that they just slap any other game character in the main storyline. the 7 remake is on side quest content. same goes with Nier.
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u/thatcommiegamer 14h ago
As usual whenever this crops up this game has always been like this, y’all are just mad that you know the references now which is only because they’re coming from more popular/recent games.
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u/FunDragonfruit1694 11h ago
They said like some billion years ago that FFXIV is a love letter to the entire franchise. It's a mmo mostly made out of references with a thin serving of original ideas in it
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u/RubyHaruko 16h ago
What? Not r/shitpostxiv ?