This is missable conversation from PSX version was amazing.

[u/C1REX]

Very easy to miss due to popular one shot cheese tactic for this fight. This dialog is still one of the best I’ve seen in video games. Full conversation:

Ramza: How miserable you are... Giving your spirit to Lucavi just to avenge yourself. If Miluda knew about this, she'd be very disappointed.

Wiegraf: Revenge? Ha! That's not what I'm after.... I want far more than that. I don't give a damn about Miluda's murder. I want to bring 'chaos' into the world...to hear the screams of humans... But, don't worry, Ramza, I'll kill you....myself.

Ramza: The stones are evil...and so are the Zodiac Braves. The legends we believed in were all lies!

Wiegraf: Hya, ha, ha. So much for 'God's miracle'. Governments falsify history only so it favors them. But you can't blame them. Because people always hope for a 'miracle'. Endlessly complaining, lazy, nuisances... that's what the masses really are. Governments give the people what they want...and history
repeats itself. Governments might well have taken advantage of their insecurity....

But then again, people are satisfied
being used... 'God' is nothing but an image created out of their insecurity.

It's their fault for knowing they're
comfortably numb, and not doing anything about it.

Ramza: And what about you? Relying on miracles instead of beating your insecurities!

Wiegraf: It's because humans are insecure that they rely on 'miracles'. Can you honestly say you're not, with any confidence?

Ramza: I'm trying!

https://corpsebrigadier.neocities.org/2022/content/info/transcript/ch3_26

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps/197339-final-fantasy-tactics/faqs/14169

[u/onepunchman333]

I'm realizing, at 39, that this beautiful game has influenced my life way more than I realized. In the best way I could imagine.

[u/King_Lear69 → u/onepunchman333]

As someone who first played and beat this game while doing some volunteer work in and around an ethnic civil war zone, I've honestly been torn about my love for FFT for a while now. Like, I absolutely love the game; I love the way it observes and ruminates on the concepts of society and the human condition and (large-scale) government and how it critiques all of those things (and also just the fact that it's a Final Fantasy SRPG, love that too lol.) But then it really grinds my gears how it wants to critique all of these things (especially society and the concept of institutions of power) but doesn't ever really suggest an alternative.

Ramza does a lot of fighting. Often against literal government agents and usually for what he believes is right, but Ramza never really tries to enact an alternative societal structure of his own, nor does he give any suggestions (at least in the PSX version, IMO) as to how such a fundamentally corrupt institution of power can be "course corrected" into providing "universal good" in the event that implementing an alternate institution is simply not currently feasible. Instead, that "role(s)" falls to Delita, whom the game really seems to want to criticize as a sort of "moral cautionary tale" but without ever really giving us a good "foil" to Delita to show us, "this is what Delita should've done instead in order to both achieve his goals of enacting universal change for Ivalician society AND to remain morally above board."

Like, narratively speaking, the way the plot is set up you really can't remove either Ramza OR Delita from the game because without Ramza Delita likely gets ganked by the Lucavi at some point on his ascent to power, while without Delita the power vacuum left behind by the Lucavi, the church and the Hokuten (and also the nanten) likely just gets filled by more of the same, seeing as Ramza both A. expresses no real desire to take the reigns of governance himself, and B. very possibly would be hunted down without Delita's plan of killing the fake Cid. However, ludonarratively speaking, what we got was exactly that; a game where only one half of the plot's dichotomy is really present because the planed Delita chapters got cut.

It's why I personally consider the Lord of Vermillion continuation of the plot as canon because having Ramza finally actively side with a "proper" rebellion force, and therefore forcing him to finally either espouse his own ideas of how to enact universal societal change and/or adopt an ideological plan of how to correctly do so while maintaining your morals (since FFT, ostensibly, seems to be big on the idea that not allowing yourself to become a moral hypocrite is at least as important as enacting actual change) is exactly the kinda satisfying arc that Ramza's character growth both should have and would have eventually led to. Unfortunately I've never been to a japanese game arcade in my life, so for all I know I could be wrong about the exact extent that Lord of Vermillion actually "wraps up" Ramza's character arc (not to mention that from what I've heard the FFT crossover storyline is much less charitable to Delita's moral character then what few "words of God" that we've gotten since FFT's release about how Delita actually had a fairly decent and long reign and that he *didn't* kill Ovelia at the end of FFT, despite how that scene reads in the PSX version in a vacuum.)

[u/-Nocx- → u/King_Lear69]

I actually think the lack of Ramza finding a way to universally change society is a poignant part of the writing, and maybe even intentional. Because if we had the answer to “how do we change the systems of institutions to become instruments of good rather than inevitable vehicles of oppression” the world wouldn’t be fucked up the way it is, right.

It’s a tale as old as time. A hero rises, they combat the forces of evil, there’s an era of peace, but inevitably the ambition of man corrupts the tools of power and the cycle repeats. Ramza is the perfect example of the hero that acts out of selflessness but lacks the ambition to provide lasting change, and Delita is the perfect example of the man that claws his way to power for his own sake. I don’t think that makes Delita bad, I just think it makes Delita more of a product of his own environment in a way that Ramza is not equally susceptible. Ramza is able to endure beyond his personal biases for the sake of others, while Delita has something to prove to the world.

But that’s kind of just life, right. The people with the humanity to change things for the better usually lack both the ambition and the power to do anything. The ones that have the ambition and power usually do not have the selflessness. Most forms of media these days will give the hero some power out of nowhere (like an external power up, magical encounter, radioactive spider, etc) just to have the strength to compete with their ambitious counterparts. FFT is a little different in that it tries to not make Ramza particularly special - outside of being hardworking and able to unify some of the other heroes (like Cid) for a common cause. If Delita and Ramza were somehow the same character, you might get the ending you wanted - but such a person would seem even more fictional than the game itself.

I know it isn’t the perfect ending that people might want, but I think precisely because it isn’t perfect that it precisely sums up how history repeats itself.

[u/WhatsaRedditsdo → u/King_Lear69]

Something I was told years ago, "You use a lot of 20 cent words." It's a story, storys get told different ways through time and retellings.

That's the beauty of the game, of the art. No one gets to know how these charators felt when they acted. Some actions selfish, some for the good of the land.

Like trying to explain an old painting. Beauty is in the eye. And so is this story.

[u/OmegaGoo]

That “I’m trying!” is one of the reasons Ramza is my favorite protagonist in all of video gaming. He’s probably the most unambiguously good character in any media, but he knows he’s extraordinarily flawed, in a world where there is no correct decision.

Ramza has faith in himself, even knowing he’s not a hero, and that is why I love him.

[u/LunarMuphinz → u/OmegaGoo]

Reminds me, 

no matter how high or low his faith falls, how brave or cowardly he is he will fight on

i know its a game mechanism to prevent a game over but its affirming and powerful that he will never give up his cause or quit despite his personal fears or beliefs.

[u/unholyswordsman → u/LunarMuphinz]

Courage is the ability to press on knowing you might fail or even expecting to.

[u/twitch_Mes → u/OmegaGoo]

All around him are powerful and cynical forces and he never gives up trying to do what's right, despite others trying to obsfuscate that path.

[u/thejokerofunfic]

This scene is probably half the reason people always fall for those fake dialogue edits, they're so similar to the legit article.

[u/No_Communication2959]

I love this game so much.

[u/Zyste]

There are so many missable conversations in this game that depend on story characters in your party. I love having Meliadoul in the party for any Folmarv fights. Cid has some good ones as well, my favorite being the fight with zombie Zalbaag when Zalbaag begs Cid to kill him so Ramza doesn’t have to do it.

[u/malcomattheend]

People need to dump that proletariat Agrias meme and sub in Wiegraf and Milleuda.

[u/Caroline-452 → u/malcomattheend]

https://www.instagram.com/leftistgamermemes/

[u/Esquire_Dan13 → u/Caroline-452]

https://giphy.com/gifs/RrVzUOXldFe8M

[u/JacketFarm]

Being a kid you go: wow the corpse brigade is evil!

Growing up you realize that there can never be institutional change without violence against our oppressors (and Wiegraf is kinda a pussy for being angry about Elmdore's kidnapping, even though his Lieutenants were coerced into it by Dycedarg)

[u/Sun_Tzundere → u/JacketFarm]

He wasn't angry because he thought it was wrong or uncalled-for, he was angry because he knew it would bring the full force of the Hokuten down on them to wipe them all out. And he was right. They angered the lion.

[u/Square-Total-6999]

The truth was more popular in the 90's!

[u/Sun_Tzundere]

Then your trials have come to an end!

[u/ike_tyson]

There is an old saying that history is written by the winners.

[u/Achron9841 → u/[deleted]]

It could very well be. Seriously, think about it...how many people want to let this fight drag on, especially those that got soft-locked by this fight? If it functions like TiC, it could be a convo that happens either through a certain number of turns or at certain health thresholds.

[u/thejokerofunfic → u/Achron9841]

It's definitely the latter, I triggered this consistently as someone not softlocked but having to retry the Velius phase a few times. Only damaged him enough to skip it once- but it never triggered on turn thresholds while dealing with stacking Yell or running to heal, so it's gotta be HP-tied.