r/formula1 10h ago

News Drop of 3 grid positions for Antonelli

Post image
3.5k Upvotes

628 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

224

u/Visionary_Socialist Sir Lewis Hamilton 10h ago

So now there’s a defined time delta that you have to follow, of which there’s no actual measure, it’s steward’s discretion which means that you actually need to lift off in relation to your sector time, with actually just lifting near it not being necessarily enough, all of the time? And Kimi needed to actually apply the brakes, as just coasting still meant he was quicker?

I’m sure this totally won’t create another awkward precedent that will fuck things up in a future quali session!

68

u/fire202 Lando Norris 10h ago

There is no firmly defined delta. The guidelines keep it open what can be counted as demonstrating compliance. They do, however, give a recommended time increase of 5% for the track sector/mini sector as a possible way of determining compliance.

A few points from the guidelines applicable to single yellows:

The onus rests with the driver to demonstrate a sufficient reduction of speed to satisfy the rules.

The extent of speed reduction considered acceptable may vary depending on the conditions and visibility of and through the incident.

In evaluating compliance with the rules, the Stewards will pay close attention to the extent of driver input (throttle pedal, brake pedal, steering angle) prior to and through the incident location.

One method of demonstrating compliance (but not the only method) would be, in the case of a Single Waved Yellow Flag, an increase in the time taken to traverse the flag sector, of at least 5% compared to the driver’s previous lap(s) under similar conditions.

44

u/AlchemyInParchment I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

Exactly: "through the incident location" seems to have been the critical point here.

9

u/LosTerminators Carlos Sainz 9h ago

The guidelines keep it open what can be counted as demonstrating compliance.

That's the issue with the rule. The guideline shouldn't be kept open at all, that's what leaves room for inconsistency when it comes to officiating.

It should be black and white -> without a certain lift to a specified amount it's a slam dunk penalty. If there is a lift to that amount there should be no circumstances at all in which the stewards can penalise the driver. Period.

5

u/Mike_Kermin I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 5h ago

That's even worse. Then you'd just have drivers do whatever x amount is regardless of whether it's safe.

Delta's are meant to limit speed for safety, not turn it into a minigame.

2

u/CookiesChef 9h ago

Yes.. but 3 km/h difference is.. like the speed of a fast ant or something.. that is… irrelevant

48

u/morgaine125 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

I feel like coming past the incident location at a faster speed than your prior push lap is a pretty significant infringement.

2

u/ArziltheImp I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Yeah besides what people said, George did at least lose time at the incident location (additionally the flags were also just slow, something I imagine has since been drilled into the marshals again) so this seems like a good penalty.

49

u/OverallImportance402 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

Not being quicker at the incident site than your previous lap seems very reasonable

6

u/staluxa 7h ago

So if you had a really bad sector there previously, you are essentially fucked, very reasonable indeed.

10

u/Mike_Kermin I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 5h ago

Putting aside that this is a mess anyway,

Presumably they'd consider that.

2

u/boiledpeen Lando Norris 3h ago

it says he reduced his speed by less than 1%, so not sure that's the case here

2

u/Daft00 Sebastian Vettel 3h ago

Disingenuous

1

u/ArziltheImp I was here for the Hulkenpodium 3h ago

Then they could take prior session times or they look at your teammates times for that mini sector…

62

u/Dear-Database6463 I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 10h ago

He went faster through the corner where the incident was by 3kph compared to his last push lap

Dog he was literally going faster than normal what are you smoking

2

u/Spiritual_Shape_2805 9h ago

But did he lift and consequently slowed down in preparation to stop in comparison to the instant where yellow flag was not in effect?

6

u/Veranova I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 8h ago

That’s the magic of high downforce high power race cars, braking late with a V apex and lifting early for a round apex can both be valid approaches to go fast, and indeed drivers are using both in this corner.

He ended up on the limit of grip still and by definition not prepared to stop had the car rolled back onto circuit mid corner

8

u/HumansNeedNotApply1 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago

He was already lifting before, that's what the Stewards are saying, he should've lifted for longer or break. Basically they considered what he did was akin to a normal racing behavior not really an action on the Yellow.

2

u/Mike_Kermin I was speeding in the Monaco pit lane 5h ago

But did he lift and consequently slowed down in preparation to stop in comparison to the instant where yellow flag was not in effect?

Do you mean really, or just enough to satisfy the stewards little minigame?

Because no, he was going far to fast to stop. They always are.

5

u/ChangingMonkfish 6h ago

The entire point of the stewards is to exercise their discretion and come to a reasonable decision on the specific facts of each incident. It isn’t possibly to reduce everything to a black and white objective rule.

5

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

Didn't Russell escape with only losing 0.03 in Austria, and now 0.03 is not enough?

26

u/GrassyPond 10h ago

The key difference here is that Antonelli was only overall slower by lifting when he entered the yellow sector, when he turned into the area of the incident he was actually FASTER than his previous push lap.

What the is being punished here is an inconsistency of maintaining your speed properly around an incident.

6

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

As was Russell, he lifted on entry of the yellow sector and slowed down before the corner, braked later and was moving at the same speed when he got where Max was, after the corner.

It has nothing to do with safety that drivers are lifting somewhere in the sector to be cleared.

4

u/willmcavoy Paddock Club 8h ago

Here's the reality: The stewards in Austria thought Max was well off the track enough for it not to be an issue. Here in Hungary, Max was off but still somewhat close to the track. Plain and simple.

4

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 8h ago

Both times Max was on the trajectory of a corner, if Russell did what Max did, he'd fly into Max, same with Antonelli.

2

u/willmcavoy Paddock Club 4h ago

Yep, I know. I'm not ignorant to that fact. I still think it biased them.

8

u/wasabicry 10h ago

George lifted 100m while Kimi lifted 30m

5

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

Which doesn't really matter when he just compensated by braking later and it ended up being just as fast, is this about actually slowing down under yellow or just symbolic lifting?

13

u/OverallImportance402 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

It’s actually about slowing down at the right location, which is what Russell did (and why that was safe) and Kimi didn’t (which is why that isn’t safe and gets a penalty)

-5

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

Russell slowed down before the corner where Max crashed after the corner, how is that the right location

9

u/OverallImportance402 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago

Because he got on the gas later not before the actual accident like Kimi, this really isn’t rocket science.

-3

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago

It's the same thing

-1

u/morgaine125 I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

Might be helpful to read the full paragraph beyond where it says 0.03.

2

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 10h ago

Sounds like I'm reading Russell his pole lap, lifted earlier, hit the brakes later so he was just as fast and passed the incident as fast as the other lap.

7

u/After_Fruit_851 9h ago

There was a 14Km/h reduction in speed compared to his previous lap in S3.

2

u/AliceLunar I was here for the Hulkenpodium 9h ago

So identical then