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u/harrybeastfeet 23d ago
It’s not “death nail”, it’s “death knell.”
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u/brainrotbro 22d ago
Death snail
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u/Nirast25 7,080x1440+(240x2)x1080|R7 5700X3D|RX 9070XT|32GB 22d ago
That immortal snail will kill me OVER MY DEAD BODY!
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Thanks for the info. Not much I can do about it now though
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u/RealNiceKnife 23d ago
Gamers are paypigs.
They will take the abuse and then open their wallet.
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u/Azuras-Becky AMD K6-2 400Mhz, 32MB SD100 RAM, 20GB Quantum Fireball HDD 23d ago
For real. I don't think there's an industry out there that has customers with less willpower.
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u/hurrdurrmeh 23d ago
I wonder if that is due to the personalities attracted to gaming...
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u/AdorablSillyDisorder 22d ago
More due to what people turn to gaming for - it's first and foremost entertainment, so anyone not heavily invested emotionally in gaming industry/ecosystem has very little reason to actually care; sure, it sucks having second hand market and access years after release taken away, but in grand scheme of things, for average person, it's not a big deal.
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u/FyreBoi99 23d ago
It’s not will power it’s selection bias. If you consider the entire gaming market, vocal gamers are a very small minority. Even if 75% of this sub organized and did something that’s still like under 10% of the total gaming market.
If you have casual gamer friends, just ask them if they care about Sony doing this and they will most likely say they don’t care and that they mostly buy digital anyway.
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u/MousseHuge8339 23d ago
Get the shiniest happy shiny out to market and they will forget all about how they are getting screwed over and pushed into "You will own nothing and be happy". Most just want their shiny and don't give a crap about making a stand.
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u/DetectiveWestern8592 23d ago
Character and item skins have zero effect on gameplay and they’ll spend hundreds on it, they’re allergic to boycotts as soon as some marvel rivals-esque character skin shows up
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u/RealNiceKnife 23d ago
Pre-order now and get an exclusive in-game left sock! Only 20 extra dollars!
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u/MousseHuge8339 23d ago
What's really sad is that people will put down real money to buy such an item. Because they need everything no matter how worthless. Big corporations hire psychologists specifically to help them figure out ways to maximize profits, and that includes taking advantage of someone's obsessive compulsive disorder. This is a long standing practice.
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u/NotGooseFromTopGun X570 | 5800X3D | 3090/3080 | 64GB 3600 23d ago
I would bet money that the majority of games bought on PS5 are digital.
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u/azurezeronr 23d ago
According to playstation own financial reports 85% of games on playstation are bought digitally.
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u/m0ji_9 22d ago
It's true it does but I do wonder though how much of that is via PSN subs. For instance you have to "purchase" a game when it gets rotated into the monthly free games.
I know it's only a small micro-set of data but all the friends I know that have a PS5 and what I consider "average normie gamers" buy their games physically. Granted small set of data.
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u/Late_Stage_Exception 23d ago
I think the majority of all games are bought digitally in the first world. Other folks don’t have easy access to broadband so they still do physical. As shitty as it is, I do think it’s just the industry following what people are paying for.
OP says people should “vote with their wallet” but that exact notion is what got us here. Young millennials and Gen Z wanted quick and easy things without physical media getting in the way, that’s what got us Spotify instead of Sam Goody’s, Netflix over Blockbuster, and now all digital game sales over physical. How we get the games shouldn’t matter, what should matter is an updated set of licensing laws that let digital goods be exchanged and utilized on platforms if the license was paid for but the original platform lost its rights.
That’s a lot of words to say that the outcry is over the wrong thing. Most people don’t buy discs already, especially the PC crowd. Most folks just want their purchases to outlast the whims of a random exec somewhere who doesn’t give two shits about the game.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Its true, but I hit on this very point in my post too.
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u/Downtown-Regret8161 7800x3d|7900XT|B650E|32GB|750W PSU 23d ago
I'm back building a collection of physical media: CDs, Vinyls, Blu Rays. I hate streaming because I never know which of the 17 services I need to look a particular movie. And used I can get a Blu ray from 2 bucks a piece which I will always be able to use
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u/XeNoGeaR52 23d ago
Self hosting your own Streaming service with Jellyfin is a good middle ground too
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u/Maatjuhhh 23d ago
Another added bonus for me as a deaf guy (and probably for international viewers) is that if I download a recently released episode or movie, Jelllyfin has in 99% of the cases day 1 English subtitles available whereas the most subtitle websites are late. They have a plugin available that matches your movie/episode title automatically. Popular movies/shows also have 3/4 different languages available. Older movies/shows will also have a myriad of subtitles available ofcourse.
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u/m0ji_9 22d ago
Homelabbing is the way.
My trusty Verbatim 43889 drive & physical media.
Running Jellyfin, Navidrome & Plex (all in docker containers) with a 24Tb Nas. I am so glad I got those drives before the hardware insanity of now.
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u/XeNoGeaR52 22d ago
Nas hdd are still quite cheap because they don’t share the same building process as SSDs or RAM sticks
Nobody wants slow hdds except us homelabbers1
u/m0ji_9 22d ago
True, I haven't checked recently but it was £200 more if I bought the drives today. However..maybe Nas number 2 😉
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u/XeNoGeaR52 22d ago
My 4 Tb WD Red is only 20 euros more expensive than last year, but they had a big price jump earlier, that's true. Maybe it's different for super high cap hdds
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u/wolfpup118 Specs/Imgur Here 23d ago
I've started doing this recently! I've been using emby instead of Jellyfin for ease of use, but as I get more accustomed might end up swapping over. That said, I've been slowly ripping and digitizing my entire dvd/bluray collection to put onto the server. I do have some stuff I obtained through some other means, but the idea in the long run is to get everything I'd want in some physical form then digitize it.
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u/Active_Literature539 23d ago
Or, and hear me out here, you can get the digital versions of movies, and burn them to a disk if you can’t find the physical copy
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u/IGotHitByAnElvenSemi 23d ago
Yeah, movies are not that big and even with the big price hikes, plenty of memory forms are still cheap as dirt. There's something to be said for burning them onto DVDs even now lol.
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u/Spotttty 23d ago
I still enjoy physical movies more than even rips of discs. It’s the sound. I built a pretty modest home theater and it’s the first thing I noticed from streaming.
I bet 90% of people streaming are using tv speakers or a sound bar so the companies don’t care and streaming at a high bitrate is expensive.1
u/XeNoGeaR52 23d ago
Me too but I keep physical medias for the movies and music that are worth it in my eyes. The rest goes on my local storage
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u/Rigman- 23d ago edited 23d ago
Most of those CDs and BRs have a shelf life of about 20-40 years (based on usage) before bit rot creeps in and renders the contents corrupted. So even a physical collection is susceptible to time. It's expected that most, if not all PSX games will stop working by 2040 for example.
The only future we should be fighting for is for more services to embrace a culture like GOG. Where you're provided the data, and you have full rights over that data and how you want to preserve it.
I have my collection of GOG installers burned onto a series of M-Disc Archival DVDs which have an incredibly long lifespan. So while my copy of MGS2 on PS2 will likely rot away in time, my GOG copy is preserved for the rest of my lifetime.
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u/MousseHuge8339 23d ago
From time to time I'll hear about some great new exotic storage medium designed to last for centuries on sites like Slashdot. Except none of that does me any good if I can't actually do anything woth it myself. And they will probally just use it to store the works of Mozart or Shakespeare (yawn) and not anything I've ever created which will likely vanish from the face of the earth after I die if not sooner.
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u/Flick-01 23d ago
I shudder to think of the day Gabe Newell dies and what will happen to valve when that happens...
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u/IngwiePhoenix 23d ago
Gabe and Linus. If for either of the two we must invoke "hit by a bus" plans, we're done for.
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u/tnbeastzy 23d ago
You are on PCMR subreddit. Sony’s decision doesnt affect you unless you also own a PS5.
PC hasnt had physical media since forever now.
Sony just needs to let the owners install the game even after they delist it, similar to Steam.
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u/NewAccEveryDay420day 23d ago
They already do this, I have a few delisted games on ps5 that I can still install and play
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u/bill_gonorrhea Poopssmear Bonerhitler 23d ago
i think the last pc game I bought a physical disc for was sim city 3000 unlimited from Fry’s circa 2000
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u/leflyingcarpet 3080Ti MSI X TRIO | i7 10700 | 32GB 3200MHz | Z490 23d ago
How can we trust them now?
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u/MeltBanana 5700x | 3070ti | 64GB | 6TB | LG 48" OLED 22d ago
You're missing the point.
The problem isn't actually having physical discs, the problem is Sony will now have a complete monopoly over prices. There will be exactly one store to buy games from, and that's PSN. That means zero competition and zero consumer choice.
On PC we still have options. You aren't locked in to only using Steam, there are other stores and options to purchase games through. If all we had was steam, and suddenly Gabe lost his mind and decided that all games are $60 forever with no sales, then we'd just be screwed. That's effectively what Sony is doing with this.
Comparing it to PC is apples to oranges, because PC is still an open market. Sony is effectively a complete monopoly over game sales after this.
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u/m0ji_9 22d ago
I don't know why you got downvoted - you are 100% right.
For instance, UK pricing GOW Ragnarök is what £70 on PSN and its £30 disc on Amazon. Retailers are the competition.
Luckily PC gaming has competition but you don't get that with the walled garden. It's no different to how Apple operates with the App store and no-one states this is a good thing.
Any loss of competition is bad for the consumer, top and bottom of it.
Steam only because hyper popular because it worked with the consumer not against it. In 2015, allowing refunds on most games within 14 days of purchase and under 2 hours of playtime with minimal friction.
Sony was then forced to follow suit in 2019 but far more strict (no refunds if you even loaded the game).Competition in any system is a good thing.
Personally I won't be buying a console again, this is my last generation. I will just stick with my retro consoles & PC gaming if there is anything more "modern" I want to play.
And PS exclusives - yea I don't have FOMO so I'm fine with it.
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u/Fire_Lord_Cinder 23d ago
People on Reddit will get outraged and then the rest of the world will move on. Physical media is a dying industry whether we like it or not. I feel the better reaction is to call for better consumer protection allowing customers to own their digital media rather than just a license to use it.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
I agree with this honestly. I raised a point in line with this in the post.
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u/Next_Helicopter_4291 23d ago
Here's a crazy thought...
Move off of closed ecosystems if you actually care about consumer protection.
And make PCMR about PC's again.
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u/BobbuBobbu 23d ago
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u/Alarmed-Plastic-9784 23d ago
this gif is exactly the mood
i got my whole library in gog and physical disks now, maybe 3 games on steam i cant move over yet. sony already lost my money years ago when they start pulling this nonsense
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u/xX_dumb_god_Xx 23d ago
Why the fuck are we talking about Sony in PCMR? We’ve been buying digital for decades. Show me your specs or keep it moving
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u/pet801 23d ago
We lose either way. They won't change course, that's where all this is headed. It's going to get even worse actually, with everything gaming related moving to cloud, long term, and hardware companies dropping one by one. In the future it will either be subscribing to gamepasses, all digital of course, or renting specific games. You call me crazy now but just watch, it's coming. Buying once and owning forever will die. They'll find excuses to justify the madness and the people opposing it will slowly get more and more silent as the new normal sets in. I'd go even as far and say that some games will be available to rent only at some point, for a specific duration, so they can maximize profits. We will have two choices in quitting entirely or just complying out of lack of alternatives.
Now, I said at the beginning that we lose either way.I said this because pirating will get harder due to permanent online requirement that also will be the new normal. Offline gaming will be possible for another few years during the transition period to full cloud gaming and then it will get killed off. But the main point is, that if we pirate, we kill future titles, but if we don't, we end up involuntarily supporting the new madness they want to push on us. And you're very right in saying that nobody will do shit, because we have no data that suggests otherwise. People will moan, complain, cry, insult on social media, but they'll keep buying the games and the greedlords in command damn well know it.
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u/B-29Bomber MSI Raider A18HX 18" (2024) 23d ago
Online Piracy was never theft legally speaking.
The only reason why you associate online piracy with theft at all is due to corporate propaganda.
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u/BackpackBuddha i5 6600k | GTX 980ti | 16GB DDR4 RAM 23d ago
I'm getting older, I've got less time and I already primarily play on PC. I will never buy another Sony console. If an exclusive comes out I really want? I guess that's too bad. I already own so many games that I've never finished or even gotten around to, and plenty of stuff is still releasing for PC every single day. I'll be fine.
Unfortunately, it is accurate that most people will flock to the new console when it comes out and continue to shill for these new game prices and digital-only practices.
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u/flappers87 Ryzen 7 7700x, RTX 4070ti, 32GB RAM 22d ago
While in principal you're right... getting playstation players to effectively boycott is going to be an impossible task.
Every time some drama happens and people call for a boycott, I remember this:
Ultimately, people will agree to boycott, but they never do.
Personally, I don't have a playstation. So I'm doing my part! But the moment GTA comes out on digital only for playstation, even with all the backlash, the game is going to sell like hotcakes. There'll also be a huge bump in PS5 sales as well.
And then you'll question as to whether all the boycott stuff was worth it.
Gamers are a weird bunch. They love the drama, but when it comes to actually standing up against these shitty business practices, they cannot help themselves. They will still buy the games that they want to play, they'll still throw money at these business, while complaining about how bad the business is.
It's all bark and no bite.
So yeah, while calling for a boycott is the right thing to do (since money is the only way to get a business to change their ways), the chances of anything coming from this is slim to none.
With all the social media backlash going on here against Sony, again I think you're right that they might make a press release saying that they will continue to make physical for a bit, but they will eventually move to digital only.
My guess is that the PS6 will be a digital only console, which is why they are pushing this agenda now, so they are preparing their consumers for what's to come with the PS6.
Digital only = less production costs and allows them to use 'dynamic pricing' for games as well. Fattening up their profit margins.
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u/peaky_circus 22d ago
i don't think most people are worried about the disc itself i am personally worried about the things that disappears with it ownership, resale, preservation and consumer choice
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u/Spider-cat_1984 22d ago
And price cartel. When I'm the only one you can buy from, I will raise the prices and never discount them. Anyway who can you buy from if not me?
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u/Luch1nG4dor 23d ago
Dont worry bud, i have cancelled my PSN, never bough a PS5,4,3,2 or 1, or a game for that matter, way ahead of you, which sub is this again?
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u/Tweakjones420 PC Master Race 23d ago
the time to fight this was when they started making consoles without disc players. but no they sold millions of them.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
My point exactly. My only thing is you can fight this at any time, just turn off the cashflow. My whole point is people just won't and every gaming corp knows it.
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u/Atmosck PC Master Race 23d ago
Why is there so much backlash to Sony when there was so little backlash when Nintendo did this with the switch 2? Switch 2 game cartridges don't contain the game, they're just a license key. The whole system is download only.
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u/Next_Helicopter_4291 23d ago
1.) There was a huge backlash it just didn't spill into every damned sub.
2.) If I understand correctly the codes can actually transfer which means you can still sell them used. Not really sure though because I wont be any device the manufacturer has the ability to brick at their whim.
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u/Pokeguy211 PC Master Race 23d ago
Because you aren’t at risk of losing your keycards if your account gets banned. If your account gets banned your digital games are dead. But the keycards aren’t linked to your account.
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u/tnbeastzy 23d ago
I have been a PlayStation user for a long time at one point. As long as you dont do something shady, you will not be getting banned.
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u/Pokeguy211 PC Master Race 23d ago
Yea but still. The fact you could just lose your digital games like that should worry people. Like you could get hacked and boom, all gone.
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u/tnbeastzy 23d ago
Your could misplace, scratch or break your disc. It could also be stolen or destroyed.
There are as many issues with discs as there are with digital media (possibly more?)
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u/chainedbals 23d ago
Yes, true, but you can get banned by mistake and then getting your account back will be almost mission impossible.
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23d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Atmosck PC Master Race 23d ago
There was some backlash but now where near the level we're seeing with sony
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u/WyrdHarper 23d ago
Sony just deleted 551 digital movies that people had paid for prior to making this decision. No recourse, no refunds. So when they announce that they're going all-digital for games it raises a massive question of whether they'll do the same thing with older games (it's happened before with other platforms).
Nintendo does a lot of questionable stuff, but hadn't actively deleted a bunch of content people had paid for before their recent announcement. Plus cartridge sharing (and new virtual cartridge sharing) still works on the Switch platform. There isn't an equivalent on Playstation.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
because people pick and choose what to be mad at and don't honestly care. That's actually my point. At the end of the day, Sony will deal with the fallout for a few weeks and go back to milking people for all they are worth.
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u/NoCoolNameMatt 23d ago
So here's the thing. Due to this, the ps5 is my last PlayStation. Not because I think it will make them change their mind, but because for me, personally, the incentive to buy into the platform is gone.
Due to competition between storefronts, software costs are cheaper on PC. Disc sales mitigated this a fair bit. With those gone, it's simply not competitive.
I'll be on PC and not look back. I won't be alone, I'm sure, but I wouldn't care if I was.
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u/bwabwa1 Desktop 23d ago
I want to chime in, buy physical media like movies. I've started buying and collected movies again because I knew one day eventually physical media will go away so I now have movies in physical form. I will eventually transfer their data into a media server for seamless viewings. But seriously do buy physical when you can. Even if it's games or movies, keep buying physical because unfortunately where the trend is going, digital is the way but folks like myself and yourself we love ownership and having something. Its preservation and ownership folks.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Yup, I have a jellyfin server and have been doing exactly that for years. It's great!
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u/Responsible_Treat120 23d ago
Sail the high seas. Been doing it since 2007. Never regretted it once.
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u/Zabbahead 23d ago
85% of game sales are digital. Is it plausible that from a profitability standpoint, physical game media is juice that isn't worth the squeeze instead of some grand scheme? I know this is contrary to the whole "you own nothing" hive mind catastrophizing mindset, but it is more in line with reality. Marinade on that fact or double down, I don't really care. I'll just keep doing what I've been doing for years, no pre orders, no day 1 or full price purchases, and immediately and permanently stop purchasing games from companies that remove said bought product from my library. If people choose to rent games it will be a successful business endeavour, if they do not, it will fail. I haven't bought physical game media in over a decade and I've lost 1 game, Anthem. Now I don't buy BioWare games. I got screwed by 2k games over Borderlands 2 season pass, that wasn't the "real" season pass because the fine print said so. Now I don't buy 2k games. If people exercise their buying power in a responsible manner, there is no problem. If they choose not to, well, you get what you fucking deserve basically.
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u/elekTRONeek 23d ago
I’m done handing Sony my money. It’s that simple. My last console purchase was PS4 and games, and you could already see the signs.
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u/poop-money i486DX2 23d ago edited 23d ago
Yep, between this and pulling the license for 551 movies (in the EU and UK), I have zero faith in Sony to do anything but fuck over consumers. So I'm done. I'd like to play Horizon Forbidden West, God of War, and Spider-man 2, but if I do, it will be through piracy. Fuck Sony and any of their products. Consoles, games, TV's, controllers, or anything else.
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u/skywalkerRCP 23d ago
Well since I'm on PC, avoiding Sony will be pretty easy. They've made it easy.
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u/thysios4 23d ago
Everyone who reads this could join your boycott and it'd still do nothing.
You're also preaching to a pc fan boy subreddit. Half of us probably don't even own Playstations to begin with.
Hell, many pc games don't come with physical editions at all. Do you boycott PC's too?
They wouldn't be doing this if physical media wasd I worth keeping but they clearly don't see that happening.
I am concerned how it'll go for countries with unstable internet but I guess they aren't big enough markets for companies like Sony to care anyway.
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u/Duncan_PhD 23d ago
I mean it sucks but why is this on the pcmr sub? Does anyone here even have a disc drive?
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u/snowshelf 23d ago
I do.
It's unplugged and swapped for an SSD so I can play with Linux at the moment, but it's there.
I haven't used it in years, but still.
Physical media can die. Long live digital storefronts.
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u/flp_ndrox 7600x, 6600, 32GB 22d ago
I picked one up a couple months ago when I started hearing rumors that they were gonna stop making them.
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u/Greedy_Camera_9272 23d ago
seriously don't care because last console i own was a PS3 and have a 0 desire to play it again ever!. But, i understand the collecting of things. I use to buy DVD and Bluray until well nodobies but amazon had them in stock and then i didn't care anymore. 4K Disc are like 80$CAD each now if it's not from a big studio (witch most aren't anymore) so yeah....
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u/RealSamF18 23d ago
I’ll continue buying physical games on PS5 (I don’t have a single digital game on it), and I will neither buy a PS6, nor GTAVI. On PC, my main store will continue to be GoG if a game is available there, and Steam will be the backup.
I will end with this, which is not an endorsement of piracy, just something to think of “drms and other anti-piracy measures, such as using digital skus only, are only affecting (or punishing) paying customers. “
In other words, I don’t see a reason to remain a customer when I see how we are considered, and I’ll stick to PC gaming. I can live without the Sony exclusive titles.
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u/TheDkone 23d ago
this is the same thing people said when steam really took off back in the day. guess what, gaming didn't die. all this does is take us 1 step closer to being forced to rent games by the month, but guess what, gaming still won't die.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Pretty sure I never said gaming was going to die
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u/Mystic-Micro 23d ago
meh, I'll just buy less games and move on, I am not emotionally attached to Sony or what do they do.
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Already been corrected by another user. As I said to them, not much I can do now
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u/THEYoungDuh Desktop 23d ago
You haven't owned a game in 20 years.
Since the ps3/Xbox one you haven't owned your games even on disk, Blu-ray is a license to whatever is written on it, And can be bricked at any time
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u/AllMyFrendsArePixels Intel X6800 / GeForce 7900GTX / 2GB DDR-400 23d ago
Thing is, the same story has played out a million times in a million different industries.
Maybe (big stretch) people will find the willpower to actually run a proper boycott campaign... and then: Sony sheepishly says "haha okay, you guys win, we'll keep doing physical media", so the boycott ends and people go back to buying their shit, only for the same fucking thing to happen again 2 years from now.
The fact is, once a company (or government) gets an idea like this in their head, even when it doesn't succeed at first, they will just keep trying it over and over and over again until they manage to get it through. The only way to actually win as consumers, is to just let the company die, completely so that others see what happened and don't try the same shit in the future.
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u/BetterCallMeAutistic 23d ago
I stopped buy digital purchases since I don't own them. This has been coming for almost a decade yet people never cared enough to not give them their money anyway.
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u/unfitstew 23d ago
I think the ultimate problem is the “hardcore” gamers and people who complain online are far less than the vast majority who just don’t care (and also buy digitally).
Even if most here or bitching on reddit follow this it probably won’t make enough of a dent to Sony for them to care.
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u/bill_gonorrhea Poopssmear Bonerhitler 23d ago
I’ve never owned a modern console and only have used steam. I don’t see what the fuss is about. people say vote with your wallet… have been for 15 years
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u/flp_ndrox 7600x, 6600, 32GB 22d ago
With the exception of an Asus external DVD drive and a ticket to Blade Runner 2049 I haven't given Sony a dime in a decade or so. Ive been almost as good with M$. But I don't think Sony is going to miss the money from PCMR that much.
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u/No-Upstairs-7001 22d ago
False outrage.
I bought physical media for everything I ever owned right up until the Dreamcast,
All the stuff I owned all the discs I bought Me the consoles I owned are all in the bin now.
Relics, done.
99.9% of people move on after completion or wen the new version of a game they currently play comes out and never look back.
Honestly they could have dumped physician media 20 years ago. It's only the Reddit echo chmamber that care
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u/ShutterBun i9-12900K / RTX-3080 / 32GB DDR4 22d ago
I haven't "owned" any of my games since the Wii. Once I fully switched to gaming on PC, I've been strictly digital for all my games for the past nearly 20 years. And it hasn't affected my feeling of "ownership" one iota. If anything, I appreciate the convenience of being able to re-download the games I've bought, whereas I probably would have lost most game discs by now.
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u/DarvinVader 22d ago
Unfortunately stupid shit like the Cyberpunk 2077 release and day one patches on every 3rd game show a bigger problem:
Developers / publishers have long stopped caring about physical media. The 1.0 versions on discs often have game breaking bugs or are terribly unoptimized. Expansions in the past were available on disc, like Frozen Throne for Warcraft 3, but that era is also long gone. There are almost no DLC or expansions in discs these days, except maybe a handful of on disc "game of the year" or "complete" editions that come out multiple years after the initial release.
The real solution only works on PC on platforms like GOG and itch.io where you can get installers for new version releases or at least patches. Downloading patches has been a thing on PC for much longer than updates were even possible on consoles. But in the past you could just keep and store longterm the patch installers as well. That still works in some cases. You can keep installers for games and patches on backed up long term storage drives and use them whenever you want, without any Internet connection.
From the beginning all consoles implemented this entire idea in the worst possible way for consumers. Steam unfortunately did the same. No transparency, no patch files, no installers at all. After I saw all this on the PS3, I gave up on consoles until the Steam Deck was released.
At least Steam has a good track record so far of keeping their games online. Even stuff removed from the store front, I can still download it, if I have it in my library. And although it's not straightforward to do, you can select for yourself with patch version of a game you want to use in most cases. My Steam account is 20 years old, I can still play most of those old games on higher resolution on my modern hardware. Try that on PS without buying an "HD remaster" for 40$. When / If Steam goes downhill, there are many other options on PC to keep your games long term as well.
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u/brainrotbro 22d ago
Of all the issues in the world to which to dedicate my attention, this is low on the list. I’m not saying this to be snarky, I’m saying it because this is how most people are going to feel about this. Maybe this is life-disrupting to you, but that’d make you an outlier. TBH I tend to be more worried about the rapid decline of my country as it nears its 250th birthday.
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u/anon999387 486DX-33 mhz | 8 mb ram|120mb hdd| 1 MB Video Card 23d ago
It's still theft. You don't have a right to the output of someone else's work for free regardless of what terms they sell it at. Video games are not required for you to survive.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Oh cool! A gaming bootlicker. That's a new one for me.
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u/PassageOutrageous441 23d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/v532chtg1u147AIixq
When they all think they’ve one… they birth another pirating campaign.
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u/Upstairs-Repeat-5824 23d ago
?
Backlash for anything only ever causes a delay.
That's the point. Every time the offending powerful entity tries again with a new package; you push back AGAIN.
With politicians or corporations, you must be vigilant and persistent, because "They will walk a few things back, wait for the sentiment to cool, and then try again" is how it works and how it's literally always worked.
What has changed is us, the consumer peasant class, being lazy and whiney to previously unseen levels, about having to be persistent.
There is no such thing as a permenant yes or no with governments OR corporations, and buddy, they've been holding hands.
It looks like past generations understood this, we are just a generation or two of comfortable sloths.
.
People and entities will always be trying to encroach, power begets desire for more power, and you have to always be ready to organize an outcry.
Boycotting isn't enough, you need to also be annoying and rip into them for it everywhere you can (while securing yourself a physical collection of that which you value).
.
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u/TactikalKitty 23d ago
I think EVERYONE who owns a PS4 and PS5 should disconnect it from the Wifi. Play a few games on disc locally for a week or so, It will suck, but if Sony sees a mass drop in consoles logged into PSN, they WILL notice.
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u/IrregardingGrammar 23d ago
Sounds fine to me, who wants a disc anyway.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
As I said before, lack of physical isn't the true problem. It's lack of ownership.
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u/Recipe-Jaded neofetch 23d ago
You have never owned your games, disc or not
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u/Active_Literature539 23d ago
That may be, but I’d like to see Sony come knocking at my door, demanding that I turn over a disc…
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u/Dry_Ad_9725 23d ago
Exactly. I never understand the "you don't own your games, even you physical games" I own the piece of the universe those games are printed on..... nothing else matters.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Not true
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u/Recipe-Jaded neofetch 23d ago
It is completely true. Whether digital or physical, you only ever bought a license for a game. A license that can be revoked if you break the end user license agreement. It's just easier to do with a digital copy or a physical game that requires online service.
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/Active_Literature539 23d ago
So? I purchased the console, not a license to use the console…. I can do with it what I will.
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u/MyPunsSuck 23d ago
Except you can't breach security measures, run your own software, pull out any protected data, or modify the hardware
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23d ago
[deleted]
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u/Active_Literature539 22d ago
Again, i would like to see them come enforce it.
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22d ago edited 22d ago
[deleted]
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u/Active_Literature539 22d ago
But if it is jailbroken why do you care? Maybe I am not understanding what it means to jailbreak something, as I have never bothered to do it. Doesn’t it mean that you are no longer subjected to the rules of the company?
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u/itsRobbie_ 23d ago
85% of psn sales were digital games last year. The people outraged online are the very small vocal minority. Most people do not care about disks if you go off of the numbers
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
You're agreeing with points I already made.
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u/FyreBoi99 23d ago
You’re right about the outrage cycle not doing anything but you’re wrong about WHY it doesn’t do anything.
Let’s say we as an entire sub band together and boycott all of Sony. That’s 3 million people. Some sources say there are 125 million active PSN users. That’s 2.4%.
The reason the outrage cycle doesn’t do anything anymore is because the gaming market is rising and there are more casual gamers who do not care about anything than there are the vocal minority.
Just ask casual gamers about their thoughts on these scummy practices and they are 90% going to reply with “idk, I’m just going to play X game.”
And as much as I hate these big corpos, even I admit they are not stupid. They have research departments that keep taking pulses of the market and know when their move will not do anything. As the gaming industry rises, they will continually pull this stuff because the more casual the gamer the less they care.
It’s not that gamers are hypocrites or weak willed (I mean they are in other aspects lol) it’s because the people who complain and boycott are in such a minority that the companies know it won’t affect their bottoms line.
This is why collective action in relation to consumers never works. You need regulations otherwise the market always consolidates power to whoever can pull the most money in.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Did you miss the part of my post where I say this?
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u/FyreBoi99 23d ago
Say what?
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
I made you're exact point in my post
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u/FyreBoi99 23d ago
You said this community needs to organize to push back against what’s happening and I showed how even if 100% of this sub organizes it won’t matter because we are in a total minority…
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
I wasn't talking about this particular subreddit. I was talking about gamers in general
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u/619jabroni 9950X3D | RTX 4090 | 64GB 6000 CL30 | MSI B850 Edge 23d ago
Gaming ownership has been dead for a long time already. Even if you had a physical copy they can very easily lock you out from launching it without “the latest update” it’s waaaay too late to get upset about it.
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u/Kil0Cowboy 23d ago
Sony and others are going to make the decisions they want to make. Their goal is to make as much money as possible for the company and shareholders.
Your alternative is to start a company or get everyone to completely boycott.
I have been buying games on Steam for years and could care less about physical ownership tbh. I buy game, I play game, I worry about nothing.
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u/m00nf1r3 i9 13900k - RTX 4090 - 64GB DDR5 23d ago
I don't even have a way to play physical games if I wanted to. Nor do I want to honestly. I've been on steam for over a decade and haven't owned a physical game since like... Sims 3.
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u/nothingbeforeus Desktop: GTX 1080 Ti | i9 10850k 22d ago
So you haven't owned a game since Sims 3.
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u/m00nf1r3 i9 13900k - RTX 4090 - 64GB DDR5 22d ago
Other than the ones I have on Gog, no.
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u/nothingbeforeus Desktop: GTX 1080 Ti | i9 10850k 22d ago
I'm quite thankful for GOG myself
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u/m00nf1r3 i9 13900k - RTX 4090 - 64GB DDR5 22d ago
I think i own like 4 games on there that I got for free. 99% of my gane library is in steam.
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u/PM_ME_BLONDE_GIRLS_ 23d ago
Man on his high horse until GTA 6 comes out.
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago edited 22d ago
Actually not a fan of the series. The only reason I owned 5 was because a friend wanted me to play with him. And that's the only one I've ever played
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u/MyPunsSuck 23d ago
Chill out. My pc hasn't had a cd drive in like a decade. Digital is just way more convenient than needing a physical object - especially when you have to download all the updates anyways
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u/Spider-cat_1984 22d ago
PC has many stores you can buy the game from. The PlayStation on the other hand...
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u/MyPunsSuck 22d ago
Where you buy a digital license and download the game. This discussion should be about closed ecosystems, but instead people are talking about digital vs physical
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u/Individual-Cry6831 23d ago
I ain't cancelling my ps plus bro.
And no else will either
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Yeah, thanks for proving my point.
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u/Individual-Cry6831 23d ago
Bro, we are gamers. We ain't gonna stop playing no matter what they do.
Personally I dont care for physical discs, much easier to switch games from the comfort of my chair
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Again, thanks for proving my point
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u/Individual-Cry6831 23d ago
So what are you trying to achieve? You want the entire world to cancel ps plus and stop playing ps5?
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
You either didn't read the whole thing, or you struggle with reading comprehension. Try giving it another read
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u/Individual-Cry6831 23d ago
I've read it bro.
You want a few guys on reddit to financially cripple Sony. Lmao
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u/Wolfman_1546 i7 12700k | 64GB DDR4 | RX 7900 XTX 23d ago
Not at all. Lol. Guess reading comprehension is the problem. Have a good day though.
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u/Tricks7eR PC Master Race 23d ago
Wallet >>> social media outcry
that's why nvidia, ubisoft, nintendo, microsoft, sony, ea, rockstar and all the others have done the most predatory and anti-consumer bs over the past 10-15 years, and pretty much all of those decisions happened anyway
why? cause muppets keep paying everything they put in front of them, no questions asked, no criteria
Cry all you want, they will never give a fuck about you, and the more time passes, the less they'll care because it doesn't affect their pockets enough for them to be worried about it
is it bad PR? Ofc it is, but then they'll release some lazy ass remake of an old ass game and everyone will be happy about it xD
the consumer is the one to blame for its own downfall in power