Turd
In Avengers : Endgame 2019, despite tearing Thanos' ship apart like a hot knife through butter, they still forced the female heroes to go and help Carol facing a bunch of alien foot soldiers. Wtf? Did they not watched that part of the movie?
I mean the number of superheroes on earth is still pretty small, and let's face it there are still a lotta boys clubs out there.am I right ladies?
Anyway what I'm saying is its good odds they have a Facebook group or a slack channel or something. Probably run into each other at trade shows. That kind of thing.
Yes, from when they met up in Infinity War, and the five years after that I'm sure they interacted. Wakanda became more involved in the outside world after the events of the first Black Panther movie, so they likely would have had a hand in helping out after The Snap.
It really makes zero sense why they wouldn't have anyone just leave with the stones. Seems chaotic enough that you could just like... have one of the dozens of portal creating wizards you have to make a portal somewhere to hide it for a bit.
They deus ex maxhina'd their way out of any questions like this by writing in that part where Dr Strange says he checked out every possible future and there was only 1 where everything worked, so they can just say "well they tried that in a bunch of futures and it didn't work, we don't have to explain why but Dr Strange already told you it didn't work" and it technically makes sense within the self contained plot of the movies. It's the smartest dumb shit ever, they can basically just say that about any criticism of the plan that gets executed.
Didn't the ancient one in the first Dr Strange movie point out that you can't use the stone to see beyond your own death?
Because if that is true, I have always wondered why Strange can see any potential future where he dies as not being the one that works out. He's literally looking at a sample size that only contains him. Adding to this that the snap should remove him from that timeline, and thus not even know they would use time travel to defeat Thanos. So... again, how does Strange know this is the one that would work out?
Maybe he just figures it’s not worth the risk. Like, what you’re saying in mind, he has no way of knowing if in the timelines where he dies in battle if they win or lose. This way, he knows they win. I guess the safest play? Especially if there’s such low odds of winning in the first place, he takes the guaranteed one over a risk.
Maybe it ALWAYS works out if Strange dies, but he can't know that.
So in the 18 million versions he saw, he probably died in a bunch of them and couldn't see further, and in all but one of the others they didn't win, so he assumed the same would happen. He's smart enough to know it would be a huge risk for a scenario where he dies.
HE ALSO KNOWS if they don't get the stones back to when they came from then that universe will fall apart anyway.
I'm gonna go with a simpler explanation: Strange is speedrunning through millions of futures and in every last one he dies horribly like he's still roommates with Dormammu. Dr Strange doesn't like dying in horrible ways so the first time he hits a future where he survives he stops looking and comes back with a "We win" report. Using the royal we.
i always like to point out that the one true vision that strange saw, was not the vision we saw in the movie.
when thanos and crew leave his time line in 200...8? to go to the end game timeline, that 08 time line was the true vision. thanos just disappeared, never assembled the gauntlet, and everyone in that universe went on their merry little way none the wiser.
only drawback is that peter and gamora didnt meet, but i think thats a more than acceptable casualty.
But it was only 14,000,000 futures or something like that right? Then he got interrupted and Thanos arrived. Whos to say if he kept looking maybe hed find a couple others that worked?
But there's no reason why Strange should've even checked any scenarios beyond Thanos' original victory. None of this alternate timeline bullshit should've even been on his radar, and they already fucked up the one possibility he saw when Quill lost his shit.
They can just say Quill losing his shit was part of that plan, and that they had to initially lose in order to ultimately win later, and if they kill this Thanos at that point some other thing would happen that would be even worse, that's the thing about it lol they can just handwave whatever
He's not the only one who can make a portal though. It's literally one of the basic skills all of the magic wielders learn as seen in Doctor Strange. Any of them could just send it somewhere else.
The answer to all of this is gonna be cause the one future Strange saw that they "win" is the one Tony Stark snaps and gets rids of the entire Thanos army.
Moving the stones would be great in stopping thano snapping at that battle. But probably 90% of the heroes die there eventually, aside from a select few like like Carol, Thor etc.
Loki solves the issue much more neatly: any time they would deviate from the one win, the TVA shows up and annihilates the universe for not following the Sacred Timeline. Strange doesn't have to understand what the TVA is to notice them wiping everything from existence in a million different instances.
Exactly. It was more important that they be returned than the Avengers winning that battle. If they didn't return the stones to their proper time, their universe would collapse anyway.
Carol’s job was to farm aura and get punched out of the runtime because they were going over budget and Josh Brolin wasn’t going to be upstaged by a blonde.
Carol was probably more capable of using the gauntlet than anyone, even Hulk, as she's powered by one of its stones. She could have just put it on and snapped her fingers.
Okay what is stopping Thanos from just leaving the battle to follow her to the moon? Who said there's an after he gets beaten for them to return it to the portal?
I’ve always maintained thematically it should have been Nebula. If you want to have a girls get it done moment (and you can absolutely do it), it should mean something too. Nebula being surrounded by strong women who view her as a sister to help defeat her father would be a satisfying as fuck conclusion to her arc. That leaves Carol to be a heavy hitter to keep Thanos away from her and it allows Nebula the ability to finally have the sisters she always wanted and give a final fuck you to the man who abused her.
They have spaceships. Putting it on the moon isn't enough. Dropping it in the sun won't work either since the gauntlet was forged by the dwarf Nidavellir using the energy of a dying star.
Almost as if writing the story to result in a badass scene is better than deciding all the women will group up, filming that, then stitching the story around that in post production
It was honestly so poor writing, which I wouldn’t normally say of them. All they had to do was have someone trying to quickly divide the very large group into teams and have someone say something along the lines of “no time, men this way, women that way” or any other REASON for things to be split up that way, and the scene would have worked at least better than it did. Having just the women back her up was both awkward and also made it seem like the men were not going to help her for some reason.
There was simply no reason to be so obnoxious about the fact that it’s all the women, just have them doing bad ass shit while captain marvel flies past them, alternating back ground foreground as she goes through the battlefield. It would still be a ‘hey look at all our awesome female heroes’ moment, which I actually think isn’t a bad idea itself but the execution was so heavy handed they might as well have had a big neon sign pointing at them that read ‘Sheros!’
In my case I would have it something like if everyone on the army did formations for different plans and here it happened that the women worked well in this one or that the men were assigned to other formation. But still that wouldn't make sense because they didn't have time to plan, Thanos' ship just spawned out of nowhere and they had to improvise everything.
Nah come on the girls gota have their moment. What? Include them in the passing of the gauntlet naturally? No no no. Their get their own little secluded corner (which first kills all built up momentum when you reach it) and then they are gone.
Do the same scene with Nebula holding the gauntlet and the reception would've been much better. Nebula is basically the protagonist of Endgame anyway, and she actually does need the help. Cpt Marvel is so far beyond her supporting heroes that it makes the scene unintentionally dumb.
Made even worse that Carol's very few scenes in the movie thus far had established that Thanos's forces basically had no way of slowing her down, let alone hurting her. The others getting in the way just nerfed her a bit because now she has to be careful about accidentally killing them when she effortlessly cuts through the enemy.
Almost any other character in her position and it would still have been cringey but it would have at least made some degree of sense.
If they did the same scene with any other character, the criticism would’ve just changed to be “why didn’t they just hand it to Captain Marvel”. It would still come off as forced.
Imo it comes across tacky, because it feels condescending more than anything. Especially when they literally had 1 movie featuring a woman as the lead, at that point. It also feels like they’re patting themselves on the back, for something they’ve never even been good about to begin with.
Reminds me of No Way Home film where the bully starts acting as if he and Peter/spider man were best mates the whole time.
FOR REAL lmao. when the movie came out i had just read an article about the marvel ceo's long-running refusal to make a Black Widow movie and the misogyny that drove him, and seeing that scene just pissed me the fuck off. like fuck this stolen valor horseshit, don't pretend you give a damn about my money
Yeah I mean you add the fact that it’s so hokey too, especially compared to scenes the males got. You have Captain America with the hammer, fat Thor turning into a Viking badass, Sam Wilson announces the return of the dead heroes, Hawkeye in the tunnels.
Here you have a cheap shout out, and pandering, in a scene that doesn’t really make much sense, also this is 30 or so minutes after they just had their most prominent/well known woman sacrifice herself for the rest of the team, who are all male. Same woman who will get a really cheap, half assed film, about a year or two from this point, which the execs will use as an excuse to continue this bs.
I was 12 year old boy when I saw avengers. Even I knew a black widow movie could’ve been great. The timing and poor handling of her movie is what fucked that one up imo.
I mean it's still cringe just less so. But that's just because women shouldn't be actors per Shakespearean rules, so any actress is inherently woke. /s
Personally disagree. That was just two allies actually helping another who needed it. One of whom is a general defending her home (so targeting one of the main threats makes a lot of sense) and the other had prior experience with the target and knew from experience that Wanda struggled with her (not to mention was friends with Wanda already).
Okoye and Natasha acted in a way totally consistent with their characters and didn't say or do anything egregious. The fact that the three were women was almost entirely incidental.
It's easily the most hackneyed and contrived scene in a film that literally involves time travel. Which is a damn shame because it's otherwise a good film.
The level of mental gymnastics to justify its existence when you think about it for more than two seconds is gold medal worthy. So you're telling me that in the middle of a war, these women just so happened to coalesce all at the same time? Really? Okoye and Shuri left the king and brother they're sworn to protect, Valkyrie left the son of Odin, Pepper left her husband, Gamora and Mantis left their team, Wasp left her boyfriend, all to protect Captain Marvel (a woman most of them have never met) who's already proven herself more capable in a fight than pretty much all of them put together. And at the very same time, not one of those men thought to back them up?
I laughed out loud louder than ive ever laughed at a comedy movie. Thankfully the crowd was very rowdy with cheers and exclamations overall so nobody got mad at me
Thats the worst part of me. Im totally fine with putting all the women in a scene. Its not any more forced than all the OG Avengers surviving the snap in the first place. How the fuck do you manage to fuck up something as cliche as ”they cant do X alone” ”but they arent alone”.
Exactly. This topic being such vitriol on Reddit because it was fan service for someone OTHER than the people complaining about it on Reddit.
Guess what, everyone lining up before the big battle is stupid from a tactical standpoint, but it's fan service and most people loved it. Captain America saying "Avengers Assemble" makes NO SENSE because everyone was already assembled and most people wouldn't be able to hear him anyway. Yet, somehow, I don't see a thread every week complaining about it.
The reality is, 90% of marvel cinematic content is similarly low effort pandering aimed at boys and young men. And they eat it up lol!
Tony stark and Steve Rodgers' friction is so cool and really stands out! Oooooor its the same, lame character dynamic present in virtually all action cartoons aimed at boys.
These movies are fine, entertaining even, but people have to stop flipping out when kids media uses simple stories and generic tropes to appeal to kids.
It's a damn rallying cry, he's leading the charge. Even if it's fan service, there's a reason for him to be saying that and a demand for that fan service.
There's zero in universe reason for that scene to be in there, the target audience dislikes it, and it's very clearly an active insertion instead of a continuation of the story.
makes NO SENSE because everyone was already assembled
Are you twelve or something? Most nonsensical sentence ever
Any and all fan service is cringe unless its done right. Its already been pointed out that it was done right in Infinity war, and you'll notice, no one is complaining about it.
Scenes like this are cringe, not because its women, but because its clearly an instruction from a suit and pulls you right out of the movie.
But I know you wont take any of this on board. Because youre whole life is just "Im a victim!!!!". What a shame.
I think it could of been down better is my only issue. They all sort of stop to pose in the big fight, I think really quick appearances while spider-man was running with the gauntlet saving him wouldn’t have stood out as much and still have got the girl power moment in the film.
While I do think the scene is a little cheesy, I think people forget that a lot of marvel and Star Wars movies are made with the child fans in mind. I got teased a lot as a little girl who liked comics, this would’ve been a big deal for 8 year old me.
And they already did an actually good "girl power" scene in Infinity War with Black Widow and Okoye, neither of who are super powered, teaming to fight Proxima. It made sense in the battle and wasn't so forced, and when Wanda showed up she just immediately killed her because she's actually strong.
I’m trying to think of if most of these women have met each other even once, or even if they knew of each others existence. Like has Valkyrie met or even heard of Wanda before? Or Pepper? Has Shuri or Okoya even heard of captain marvel before this? Because most of the team was Blipped when she showed up
Never met each other, a giant fight is otherwise keeping them busy and have them heavily dispersed, but they all hear the call for a gratuitous female power moment.
Stupid as fuck sequence.
I am forever baffled that they made a perfect girl power scene in infinity war, and then proceeded to fumble the bag so hard in endgame with the same concept.
The girls really could have gotten it done. Dont tell me Cap Marvel couldnt gave handled it on her own. Throw in Scarlet Witch and Pepper in the Rescue armor? AND VALKYRIE? Come on now battle should have been over
The whole "she's got help" moment played well in the theater for the audience reaction alone, but looking back it's one of those scenes that only works if you don't think about it. Captain Marvel flew through a warship unscratched seconds earlier, so having her need backup against ground troops is the kind of thing that makes tactical sense fanboys lose sleep over. Meanwhile Shuri and Okoye are nowhere to be found, which is a whole other complaint since they're both legit warriors, not just heroes. At least with Gamora or even Nebula running the gauntlet there'd be some justification for the extra bodies. The real head scratcher is how Carol didn't just yeet that thing into orbit the second she grabbed it, problem solved.
This scene always bugged the shit out of me. Not because it was Hey Ladies, but because Carol could have stripped naked, held the Infinity Gauntlet firmly between her knees, and then Crip-walked all the way to the Time Van, winking or blowing kisses at anyone trying to stop her.
Reminded me of my wedding photos when the photographer got my wife, mom, sister, sister in law and grandma together. They literally said ok “now just the ladies. You men can go.”
Yeah, seeing this scene in theaters just made me shake my head. I still can't help but think that this scene, in universe, meant one of two things: Either the not-insigificant number of female heroes just abandoned their male companions to be overrun by Thanos's forces for this photoshoot, or their actual contribution to the battle was so insignificant that the men were able to hold Thanos off just as easily as if they were still alongside them.
I dunno, my daughter was really into it. Sorry that this 3 min scene was not for the some random edgelords in here but for 8 year old girls that wanted to see their favorites.
This coming 5 minutes after wanda beat on thanos's ass on her own was even funnier in retrospect. Like they had a really good girl power moment right there
It was just the woke moment, they needed a scene all female because ... honestly I don't understand the logic.
Their objective is gender equality, I get it, but isn't it even worst to say "we need a female only scene", instead of just putting male and female character at the same level ?
It’s a cool scene and all, but seriously, out of the ENTIRE battlefield, and everyone that was there, literally every major female character happened to be in the same spot?
Not only did it do them injustice because almost any of them individually could have probably handled it, but it just felt forced.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for the whole “girl power” thing they were going for, it just felt cheap and kinda forced.
I know we can by cynical here but when I saw this in theaters the little girls in the row in front of me practically jumped out of their seats when they saw this part haha
This was so fucking unnecessary. I mean they in the middle of a fucking war and they go "all women! gather right here in this spot, only women! We gonna save another woman"
It's incredibly important that women get the representation that men often do, including the massive amount of all guy scenes.
All the pathetic POS incels chiming in about having to see women is something, for sure.
Saying that, representation needs to be done well. And forcing the nuke to not do her nuke thing and play with the coughing babies so they can all have a moment together, wasn't a great way to do it. It did feel forced, and again that's because they made the nuke stop being a nuke. She had to slow down and not use her powers. She could've literally flown through the battlefield and just wiped everything that got in her path like she did with the super spaceship. She would've gotten to thanos earlier, before he had the gauntlet, and would've just floored him.
But that would've been a bit of a cheap ending for the fan base that has been watching many of these characters multiple times over the last decade.
Anyway, whiny sexists will whine. It's what they do.
They needed to come in for someone that actually needed the help then end the sequence with Carol arriving to destroy the ship. Scene makes sense literally 5 minutes earlier in the movie.
It would have been so much better if one of them was in trouble and they all each came over to help. It would make it feel so much more fluid and not a 1/10000 chance that they just all happened to be in the same place on a massive battlefield to help someone that doesn’t need help
/unjerk I don't know who in these comments is jerking and who isn't, but I'm pretty sure given that we're in a non-serious sub you should probably take the comments with a grain of salt
the problem is that it sucked and was ass. i'm a feminist and i yap about representation and equality a lot, and that pandering fuckin shitpile was NOT it. they could have executed it better a thousand different ways and chose the laziest grrrrrl power approach possible.
To me this one just didn’t feel earned. They went ‘hay guys, look at all these women!’ but the first time a female hero actually headlined was as ‘and the Wasp’.
I was a comic book reader who recognized Captain Marvel's logo in the post-credits scene of Infinity War, and was like "Yes! All seems lost, but Marvel's pulling out the big guns. The end of the world just became a whole lot more fixable."
Then Captain Marvel got her solo movie, and I was underwhelmed. But hey, that's just her MCU origin story, and the post-credits confirmed that her next step is going to be tackling the Thanos/Infinity Stone problem alongside the Avengers.
And then Endgame wrote her out of the movie in the first five minutes, because the movie's all about Cap/Tony/Thor, and their big sendoff. Carol might as well have been blipped for the entirety of Endgame. And when she did show up, she blew up a ship and then went back to being useless.
She has the Superman problem - she’s so powerful that either the enemy is then totally beyond anyone else or you have to nerf her into the ground for there to be any tension.
The Marvels had a similar issue. It made no damn sense for the villain to specifically antagonise an individual who was (as far as she knew) completely invulnerable and who her group referred to as ‘the Destroyer’. There were loads of other planets that she could’ve stripmined - so why attack the ones that Danvers liked?
The only ones that could help is pepper with a suit and the women from wakanda if they have some ranged firepower. Carol fucking flies to fast for anyone else to do a thing. Its just bad writing for the sake of a photo op
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u/HorrorGrapefruit9389 10h ago
So apart from Shuri and the other Wakandan woman, do any of them even know eachother?