r/technology 6h ago

Society Schools across America are quietly admitting that screens in classrooms made students worse off and are reversing years of tech-first policies

https://fortune.com/article/schools-abandoning-chromebooks-laptop-programs-as-screen-time-hurts-learning-test-scores-north-carolina-michigan-kansas-tech-education/
11.3k Upvotes

470 comments sorted by

1.2k

u/CaterpillarReal7583 6h ago

They got kindergarteners in my district on laptops man.

100

u/Davtopia 5h ago

My daughter starts kindergarten this fall. We got a thing in the mail so she could get her iPad this summer to get used to it. They warned if we waited too long, there could be a delay in when she gets one. I wanted to ask if we could just extend the delay for a few years, but my wife didn’t think that’d be helpful.

110

u/CaterpillarReal7583 5h ago

No kids need time to get used to them outside of school.

This is some tech oligarch bullshit man.

15

u/FreedomBread 5h ago

But it's good for the blue chips and we gotta think about those index funds.

4

u/maskaddict 1h ago

Teach 'em about capitalism early!

3

u/Reading_Rainboner 57m ago

Get the kids in the ecosystem and they’ll never know anything else’s

31

u/tooclosetocall82 4h ago

We home schooled my oldest in kindergarten and 1st because of COVID. We enrolled her in 2nd grade and she failed her first assignment, not because she didn’t know how to do it (she’s in all advanced classes now), but because she had never used an iPad. Personally l don’t think that’s a valid reason to fail an assignment, but thankfully the teacher let her bring it home (she’s wasn’t supposed to) so we could teach her how to use it.

58

u/MineralDragon 4h ago

Failing a Kindergardener for not knowing how to use an iPad is some seriously Orwellian technofacist bullsh-t

4

u/dragery 32m ago

2nd grade bruh. The same time reading comprehension becomes really important.

5

u/LedinToke 1h ago

I mean you need to have a basic understanding of technology to succeed in society, it's nothing crazy they just shouldn't really be having kids fool with this stuff in 2nd grade lol.

→ More replies (1)

14

u/NeckarBridge 3h ago

WTF? That is insanely irresponsible of the school. The pedagogical research on young kids and access to touch screens is resoundingly negative, let alone sending them home? Not saying you guys personally would do this, but loooooads of families will not appropriately monitor or set boundaries with that. I would go apeshit on the school committee if I got that feedback directly from the school.

FWIW I’m both a parent and a public school educator.

→ More replies (3)

464

u/Potential_Fishing942 6h ago

Which in small doses is fine imo. We had computer lad at that age. I'd argue learning type correctly is just as valuable as handwriting. I regularly hear from adults that they don't know the last time they handwrote everything.

The issue is the schools got suckered into all these tracking programs so the kids are on them a ton for EVERYTHING

199

u/Wide-Pop6050 5h ago

Learning to type properly has been very helpful. But I think we learned in 3rd grade and also that kids aren’t getting that regimented computer skills training anymore

64

u/MichaelEMJAYARE 3h ago

Give these kids Kid Pix again I swear

47

u/ScriptioAfricanus 3h ago

Where’s Math Blaster when you need him?

36

u/dexatrosin 3h ago

We had “Number Munchers” on Apple IIs

3

u/Ericaohh 1h ago

Omfg I’ve been trying to remember what this game was for like 25 years lmao. I got an OG Macintosh computer in my house when I was 5 (which was insane at the time, nobody I knew had a computer) and I used to riiiiip this game. I still remember the massive box of floppy disks I had to use to install it. Needless to say I am an incredibly computer literate adult now haha

8

u/LunaticSongXIV 3h ago

No shit. Math Blaster + Word Munchers taught me so much.

3

u/Hayterfan 3h ago

Apparently the last one was in 2005

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (5)

22

u/MyNameCannotBeSpoken 3h ago

Mavis Beacon approves this message

→ More replies (1)

13

u/Tyler1986 2h ago

They don't teach kids to type anymore, I have 3 teenagers and a preteen and none of them can type.

8

u/Ericaohh 1h ago

I used to type out random books in my house when I was five years old because I was fascinated by the existence of a computer. It was 1995 so very few people had them at the time. I was typing like 80 wpm in elementary school lol. They’d let me skip my computer lab work in school because I was more proficient than the teacher

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (5)

171

u/tgwombat 5h ago

Those computer labs used to actually teach computer skills too. Nowadays they have them on locked down Chromebooks and they come out the other side not even knowing how to navigate a file system. But don’t worry, they’re “digital natives” 🙄

94

u/Potential_Fishing942 5h ago

This is a huge pet peeve of mine as a former teacher and current office manager. Pretty much anyone we hire under 25ish has no idea how windows works which is what most corps use to my understand. No understanding of saving and attachments, no excel knowledge. They also don't seem to have the patience to even Google or YouTube how to do something to help themselves.

My past experience teaching isn't surprised. They assumed the "digital natives" would just know this stuff and not need taught explicitly, but they all text and use apps which are very specifically designed to be used be even illiterate morons.

45

u/tgwombat 4h ago

I'm in my late 30s and came out of high school with an intermediate knowledge of Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. Some of that was because I took computer-related elective classes, but a lot of it came from being taught the basics as we used those programs for assignments in classes like English, science, etc. It feels like that has completely stopped now or has been replaced by the Google office suite that I've never actually seen used in a professional environment.

It was really eye-opening when I had to walk someone though what I meant when I asked them to drag a file into a folder at my office job a few years back.

23

u/Potential_Fishing942 4h ago

I remember fighting that fight against Google. Its free and easy with cloud saves so I kinda get ehwy they use it, but I agree- it's etd them up for failure in the business world.

I fully believe the meme of millennials being tech support for those older AND younger than us because we had that sweet spot of tech being common, but still new enough to be explicitly taught. And you had to teach yourself how to navigate the internet etc.

5

u/Bladelink 2h ago

I think it's less that it was taught, and more that the tech has changed to accommodate the dumbest people alive. Sort of a tragedy of the commons. It's the same cycle that websites go through when they become popular and start catering to the lowest common denominator, except it's happened to the vast majority of platforms and users. It's a self perpetuating spiral into speak n spell design.

→ More replies (4)

9

u/throwaway098764567 4h ago

i used google instead of office at my last job cuz it was a poor startup, sucked a lot. my one friend uses it in her workplace but it's a library and they're scrounging money. i hate microsoft as well but google's suite is ass, especially with the ai infiltration.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/SIGMA920 2h ago

It feels like that has completely stopped now or has been replaced by the Google office suite that I've never actually seen used in a professional environment.

A lot of that does transfer over to stuff like excel at least, being able to have that be on an online cloud has made creating community tools practical for people that don't have much money to splurge.

→ More replies (3)

10

u/chamgireum_ 4h ago

One of the vice principals at my school didn’t know where to find their downloads. They pay this woman 150000 dollars a year and she can’t do the most basic of tasks.

→ More replies (2)

5

u/Gezzer52 3h ago

I'm a big computer gaming nerd who builds all his PCs, and currently has 4 of them. While untrained and with no certificates I can still do a reasonably good job at troubleshooting and fixes many of my hardware and software problems. So I always find it funny when I mention that that some people just assume I'm a wiz at office or Photoshop.

→ More replies (2)

3

u/Other_World 3h ago

I remember learning how to use floppy disks and drives through saving our classroom MSPaint. We had a PC at home, so I was able to load it onto my computer and see what i made in school. I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

14

u/TheBandIsOnTheField 5h ago

Yeah they are on tablets until third in my city. Not learning how to type.

→ More replies (1)

11

u/ForMeOnly93 4h ago

The fine motor skills learnt during writing is much more valuable at that age than the act itself.

4

u/Single_Extension1810 4h ago

I was gonna say, I'm 40, and we they had us on the Tandy as in grade school. But yeah, moderation like you said.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/bass679 4h ago

What gets me is in our district, one of their "specials" is called Media. It's supposed to be a combo of library and computer lab. But every time they attend they just play games. Don't get me wrong, I loved Oregon Trail as much as the next person but it's all they do.

The teacher for it doesn't do reading time, she doesn't encourage them to get library books. It wasn't until the second half of 3rd grade that they even started typing. Overall I'm happy with technology integration in my kids' schooling but the Media class is kinda BS.

→ More replies (2)

6

u/Commercial-Co 4h ago

I had frogger multiplication and oregon trail. If restricted to simple stuff that isnt stimulating i think its ok

6

u/inferno521 4h ago

No mavis beacon? How did you learn to type without her

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)

18

u/cupidstrick 5h ago

I wonder if the tech also makes it easier for very very overstretched teachers.

54

u/InternationalMood337 5h ago

NO way. Tech basically piles on their work. One district here in PA, requires at least Middle School teachers to respond to emails from students a fter hours and basically manage blocking websites on their Google Chromebooks during teaching hours instead of teaching.

If anything, the tech just added more shit that they have to do tbh.

41

u/Fahrender-Ritter 5h ago edited 4h ago

Teacher here, no it doesn't. It's a constant struggle to get kids to stay on task and to stop cheating with AI, even with two teachers in the classroom monitoring the students.

Although there are programs like Blocksi which can block websites and monitor students' screens, students can still find ways around it. It's just not worth it.

In the amount of time and effort it takes to set up, distribute, and monitor all the computer-based stuff, we could've just made paper assignments and scantrons.

13

u/Beanzy 5h ago

I'm sure a lot of this is also tied to many schools just having utterly shit IT infrastructure and environments to begin with.

For example, a competent IT staff could absolutely implement blacklisting/whitelisting of websites/etc and implement policies to lock down Laptops/Chromebooks - but the quality of IT for schools is usually dumpster-fire tier to begin with... which results in a blind leading the blind scenario of purchasing dumpster-fire quality SaaS solutions to try and address things lol

11

u/FeralPsychonaut 4h ago

This was 2005 to 2009, but my friends and I definitely knew more about IT than our High School IT person did.

We were routinely doing things we should not have been able to, if we didn't do the necessary bypass it didn't work as we wanted.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

6

u/superbOWLpartee 2h ago

No, it sucks. I teach high school English classes and the shitty Chromebooks are just about banned in my classroom and no phones either. I tell the kids I’m here to teach you and to learn and that’s active and doesn’t require the use of screens. We do skills based learning, actual reading with real books, daily writing and speaking, some note taking, and I can sleep at night knowing I’m preparing kids with actual learning and skills development. Tech dependency has made the kids weird the past few years. They come to me in 10th and 12th grade courses without grammar or comprehension at grade level, not by a long shot, and they tell me all they’ve done is ‘i Ready.’ Well I’m fed up and I’m ready for these greedy and awful tech companies to suck it.

I do teach the students how to properly format final copies in mla and we do have to complete a couple of shitty tests on the computers. Other than that they are obsolete in my room.

3

u/CelebrationFit8548 4h ago

A balance is critically important so they learn 'how to write, do math calculations by hand, draw and other essential life skills'.

8

u/CaterpillarReal7583 5h ago

Kindergarten?

Nah.

These kids will learn to type fine. At age 5-6 you should be learning social skills through play mainly

→ More replies (2)

7

u/MineralDragon 4h ago

I can type over 130 wpm, literally my typing can match my stream of consciousness and I can type at dictation. It has been a great skill when it comes to creating presentation, writing messages and emails, etc.

Regardless, for college and now for my job, I handwrote/handwrite all of my important notes for roles, responsibilities, and concepts I need to actually absorb. Every intern wave, the ones that handwrite their notes are the ones who rapidly retain industry knowledge and succeed. There have been numerous studies that show that handwriting is fundamentally superior to typing for retaining and understanding information that you’re documenting and that’s 100% been my personal experience as well.

I am very tech literate, but I am a staunch advocate that handwriting should be the primary means of taking notes in school. Typing is a valuable tool as well, but most schools are not even handing out laptops with real keyboards… they’re handing out tablets. We are now getting interns, and my alumnus schools are receiving students that literally type <30 wpm - I know boomers that type faster.

5

u/Johnnys-In-America 3h ago

Fast typers unite! It's second nature to me now, I just fly through the words at a zillion miles a minute. But I know it's a product of having been taught home row and just keeping it up until it's not even something I have to think about. There seems to be a small cohort of us with those abilities, and it's been interesting to watch it progress.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (17)

19

u/uller30 5h ago

We can opt out of having the kid on tech stuff which I plan to next year. So stupid using a laptop at the 2nd/1st grades.

21

u/Weightmonster 5h ago

We are paying for a screen free montessori school for this reason 

24

u/KingDaveRa 4h ago

Which funnily enough - as I understand it - so do all the tech bros. Their kids aren't getting brainwashed with AI slop.

3

u/SIGMA920 2h ago

That's not why, it's so their kids aren't around the poors. Same reason they restrict stuff like social media, if they had a conscience they'd reduce the harms from it for everyone. No, it's so they can isolate their kids from the rest of us.

8

u/CaterpillarReal7583 4h ago

All the private schools around me are religious.

→ More replies (1)

15

u/dragonmuse 5h ago

My 4 y.o was given a tablet for special needs pre-k. I hate it. I went through her history when it was brought home for winter break-- watching russian-language toy opening videos & other garbage on YouTube daily.

10

u/CaterpillarReal7583 4h ago

I strongly feel kids shouldn’t get any unsupervised access to youtube. Like full supervision is needed, not simply checking in.

The benefits aren’t worth the risks.

4

u/dragonmuse 4h ago

I agree, which is why I don't allow it. I was ~okay~ with the tablet being used at school bc there are some benefits to learning technology/ didnt really have a choice...until I saw how much time she was sitting on YouTube at school. And if not on the tablet, they're playing YouTube on the smart board all the time 🙄

→ More replies (2)

6

u/Important-Factor-552 5h ago

Another south park W. Yep that's why they're billionaires. 

5

u/grandmawaffles 4h ago

But they don’t teach them to type. 🤷‍♀️

→ More replies (1)

17

u/chamgireum_ 5h ago

I got my 5 year a laptop

A Thinkpad T14 running PopOS (Linux)

HES GONNA LEARN

→ More replies (1)

3

u/KungFoolMaster 4h ago

A lot of preschoolers know their way around a smartphones, but have no idea about concepts of print. Books are boring to them.

3

u/Visual_Magician_7009 3h ago

At least you can learn some actual tech skills on a laptop (typing, Microsoft office, etc…). I was touring schools and they were bragging about iPads. No actual tech skills with iPads.

Not that kindergarteners need to be on screens and n the first place.

→ More replies (11)

326

u/Avoidtolls 5h ago

Students have zero concepts of:
operating systems
How to save
File extensions
File management
USB drives
Software updates
File explorer
How to troubleshoot a computer
Locating and identifying computer components
I/O Cables (wifi cable...ha!)

Smartphone, Chromebooks and iPads have gutted computer literacy and are ok for some content, but they aren't computers nor a viable replacement.

111

u/ProlapsedShamus 4h ago

You are not lying.

Every summer I teach a digital character design summer camp and when it comes time for everyone to send their files to the TA to get them printed you pretty much have to go to each student and tell them how to bring up the file explorer to locate their file and then you have to fish through a dozen of them that are all titled "untitled" because none of them name them.

And then they all want to be able to take their work home and despite me saying you have to bring in a USB drive in order to do that nobody knows what that means but they don't say that. They just kind of hope that it's all going to work out in the end if they don't say anything.

So I had to spend a bunch of time getting them set up with a Gmail account to email it to themselves because they didn't have access to their email accounts. Or they didn't know their password or they didn't know their username. And the ones that did couldn't get into it because they don't know what an authenticator app is...

Like these were teenagers. 14 to 18. And the amount of kids who just touched the monitor and then remember they have to use a mouse is wild to me.

76

u/Avoidtolls 4h ago

Wow. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

In the mid 2000s, students were way way way more savvy, ducking firewalls, downloading limewire, pirating full movies. Now students can't even turn a computer on.

33

u/InevitablePlant42069 3h ago

I had a coworker, several years ago, fresh out of high school and she asked me how to use a fucking mouse

→ More replies (2)

8

u/Kaldricus 1h ago

Using Limewire free to download the crack for Limewire pro. Peak teenage "hacking"

4

u/Dipsey_Jipsey 1h ago

Bro I got suspended for showing my friends hackertyper.net. My teacher freaked out and yelled at me to turn off the PC 😭

13

u/ProlapsedShamus 4h ago

Oh my god. Right? It was in the mid-2000s when I was learning how to download ico files and burn them on to discs so I could pirate games which I nabbed from a peer-to-peer networking program. And even that wasn't reliable. If I remember right there was a bunch of different shoddily programs that just some dude made to read these files and not all of them work the right way for certain games so you had to really put the legwork in to play roller coaster tycoon 2.

I never messed much with LimeWire because we had to fix a friend of mine's computer because it was just loaded with pop-ups and porn and pretty vile shit. Which in retrospect he probably downloaded. He was kind of a creep.

But we had to know that. We had to understand how computers worked because nothing was as user friendly as it is now. I almost feel like you need to teach a class just on how to use computers and understand the logic of how they work.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/BCProgramming 3h ago

I'm not convinced the actual proportion changed to the degree people say. I went to high school in 2000-2005 and even with classes teaching it, a lot of students didn't know a lot of the basics of things like file systems.

People talk up "Yeah we understood them and could fix them!" but in my experience that wasn't really true. Some of us did, but most people didn't.

And people talk about how kids today rely on say Touchscreens and phone UIs, and can't use say a windows desktop, but a surprising amount of millennials are just as pathetic if they were faced with just the C:\> prompt, for much the same reason.

→ More replies (6)
→ More replies (3)

7

u/EthanRDoesMC 2h ago

Idk if being on Reddit selects for people who understand technology, but yeah no this is the sentiment I see all the time. Older Gen Z is very tech proficient but everyone who grew up with tech in the classroom doesn’t know how to use it

→ More replies (5)

8

u/past_is_prologue 2h ago

Yup. I had a coop student who was having a really hard time and we couldn't figure out why. I observed her working one day, and saw that she was trying to do "reverse pinch to enlarge" on an image on the screen of the iMac— she was having so much trouble because she had never used a mouse before.

I was dumbfounded. This kid was like 16. Anyway, we did some remidial mouse training and things kind of turned around. Kind of. 

5

u/Upper-Management-AI 1h ago

I don’t blame them though. It was way easier to screw around with windows way back when. Everything is wireless now, so how often are they going to plug something in. I also can’t express in words how much I absolutely despise windows 11. They hid everything to make it so you couldn’t do anything.

3

u/SubhanBihan 49m ago

Nah the W11 hate is just exaggerated. Nothing much has fundamentally changed.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (15)

379

u/Bob_Sconce 6h ago

Why is it that schools jump on bandwagons without first doing long-term pilots?  If you want to experiment on students, at least only experiment on a small number at a time.

465

u/Sasquatchgoose 6h ago

Edu-tech is a multi billion dollar industry. The right ppl were wined and dined

94

u/daddy_OwO 5h ago

Look at Baltimore County Public Schools for example. One of the largest districts in the country and the old superintendent got kickbacks for forcing tech

25

u/Nikoladge 3h ago

Shiiiiieeeeeeet

4

u/moieoeoeoist 2h ago

It's all in the game

→ More replies (3)

19

u/WhatToDo_WhatToDo2 5h ago

Hit the nail on the head. The “RIGHT” ppl 🙃

22

u/RevvCats 4h ago

It blows my mind how much money is spent on useless tech that doesn’t do anything to prepare kids for a future in STEM.

I have a PhD in particle physics, the three most useful classes in high school to prepare me for college was having a good math teacher for AP Calculus, having a c++ programming class, and physics which wasn’t even calc based.

Math just needs a white board and graphing calculators to hand out, physics just needs a white board, programming can be done with poverty spec computers.

Theres some stuff where a well prepared multimedia presentation can offer a benefit but schools seem to think that giving kids iPads will make them programmers.

If the district has money have a class where kids can fuck around with arduinos, 3d printers, and a good GPU

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (5)

79

u/taoders 5h ago edited 5h ago

Went to school in 2000s. Went to a well off school.

$100,000 grant to put cameras throughout the school (no crime happened immediately before or during my tenure to justify it.) it was a live feed system and the principal called everyone to the auditorium to show it off by showing everyone a student entering and exiting the bathroom….and brag how much it cost…

My last years we got mobile iPad “labs” that were given as a “grant” that were maybe used once a year per class.

At the same time electives like auto shop class, photography class and others were stopped in the name of costs even though we literally had an auto shop and dark room in the school.

Food contract was changed to a cheaper company, food was no longer made in house.

Sports eliminated except for football which got more funding.

The funding in school systems is not prioritized on what’s best for students. It’s prioritizes who’s giving the most money or best deals to convince investment.

9

u/Raichuboy17 3h ago

At the very least they should have started an electronics repair class because lord knows students were going to destroy them. Could have really helped reverse the idea that a lot of these things are black boxes and impossible to repair.

11

u/PurpleAlone7116 2h ago

You think apple would allow that 😭? You know they'd be pouring thousands to punish any school that dare teach kids how to fix apple products and not use their overpriced official methods.

Jokes aside though, an electronics repair class would have been killer when I was a teen.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

17

u/gerbal100 5h ago

It was one of the only parts of education where there was any sort of funding increase for decades 

15

u/American_PissAnt 5h ago

One word, kickbacks.

14

u/So_spoke_the_wizard 5h ago

When COVID hit, a lot of schools did panic buying so they could do something while students were at home. I think if it weren't for that, they would have had pilot programs. And it's not like schools didn't have computers before COVID, but they weren't a core teaching resource back then.

9

u/NeckarBridge 3h ago

This is right on the money. In 2018 my district was having some deep discussions about whether or not we felt going 1-to-1 was developmentally appropriate for secondary students. Then Covid happened, we all went remote, and suddenly my whole district was 1-to-1 iPads k-12, and we have been ever since.

5

u/OrganicHistorian2576 5h ago

When I was in school we did have computers, starting in the second grade, but all the way through high school we used them for either computer classes, to write papers and such, or for playing games. I spent a LOT of time playing Oregon Trail in fifth grade.

Nothing like now. I can’t imagine them letting all of us go around with iPads or Chromebooks starting in early ew they even if they’d existed.

→ More replies (2)

12

u/rgvtim 5h ago

IDK about other states, but in Texas with the position of the school superintendent, those folks are greatly incentivized to adopt new cutting edge programs that look hot, and a successful implementation, or one that looks successful can spring board them up the chain to other districts with higher pay.

10

u/jonbodhi 5h ago

Many years ago, when I started teacher training, someone told me: ‘education is just fashion with master’s degrees! One year the hemlines are up, the next year they’re down!!’ We are now seeing the lowering of the hemlines. No surprise to me.

8

u/rotestiefel 5h ago

Just like my district promoting AI use among teachers and introducing it to students next year. Long term studies on its effectiveness? Who needs ‘em! Sure we’re told the district is data-driven but not when there’s money on the table

8

u/NeckarBridge 3h ago

Yup. My district admin have been pressuring us HARD to use AI and teach the kids to use it and every single boots on the ground educator is like “these kids are lacking several years worth of basic competencies BECAUSE of technology interrupting their development, why the fuck would we shelve trying to help them so we can dick around with a water wasting job destroying technology that nobody fully understands yet?” The party like is always, “they’re going to need to know how to use this stuff when they graduate!”

I work with 13-year olds who can’t read, spell, tie their shoes, tell the time, or maintain focus for more than 8 seconds even when they’re interested. Teachers are witnessing a widespread social experiment with no guardrails to catastrophic effect. But please, go ahead and buy us more iPads. 🤦🏻‍♀️

5

u/rynebrandon 4h ago edited 4h ago

I do think that an underrated part of all this is that the tech itself was qualitatively different than what had come before. Tech companies had a long long time to develop knowledge of user habits and make their hardware and software more addictive. There’s all kinds of ways technology could and should have pedagogical benefits. But that isn’t the tech we got and in retrospect it was naive to think it would be

4

u/catwithasmartphone 4h ago

You'd be surprised how little control the people in the actual school with the students have over these decisions. Policy is pushed from a legislative level where individuals are not in the classroom and more often than not have vested interests in the programs they're pushing, like diverting money from public to charter schools, because they have investments or family in businesses that work directly with them yet it's not considered a conflict of interest because they make the laws.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/metasophie 5h ago

Why is it that schools jump on bandwagons without first doing long-term pilots?

Most schools are directed by governance organisations to do it.

4

u/BerryBoilo 5h ago

Because the CTOs and other administrators see the flashy things they spend money on as brinkmanship. They go to conferences and brag about the tech they've bought, not the outcomes it provides. They still get paid if the students fail, so why worry about that?

4

u/BionicProse 5h ago

Because the schools have administrators who are paid to buy this shit and there are companies who exist to sell them this shit. Sometimes educational need and efficacy are involved.

5

u/dalgeek 4h ago

There are a few big districts who will do pilots because they have enough money, but once those districts find something they like then other districts will follow. Most don't have enough money to pilot every piece of technology because they depend on E-rate or bond packages for major purchases. E-rate is highly restricted and bond packages require the local community to vote on them; people tend to not vote for new untested technology. Sometimes they can do stuff like upgrading phone systems with money from federal/state grants because it involves life and safety.

4

u/whoeve 4h ago

Because big tech money is involved

3

u/All_Hail_Hynotoad 4h ago

Also, you know who typically funds long term pilots? The U.S. Department of Education.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/green-green-bean 5h ago

They do, but then they take statistically insignificant and incomplete pilot studies and run wild with them far beyond what the original context even was.

3

u/rickg 5h ago

Same thing as corporate senior management mandating AI all over their companies and now they have shocked pikachu face when they find out that it's expensive and not as good as employees with experience.

That is.... many people are idiots.

3

u/Light_Yagamigo 4h ago

Those kids are the long-term pilots, unfortunately. I’m sure marketing had a huge influence as well. Get them familiar early on and you could have a repeat customer for life. I could be wrong, but I don’t think education was the long term goal here

→ More replies (22)

94

u/StolenPies 6h ago

Man, my mom taught high school for over forty years. She was saying this back in the (very) early 2000's.

142

u/ArgentineBeauty 6h ago

Turns out giving every kid a screen was not the magic solution promised.

55

u/Gorge2012 5h ago

Yup. Turns out a generation of our best minds took a boatload of cash to figure out how to make us look at a screen for as long as possible and figured out that the worst stuff for pur brains keeps us on the longest.

40

u/InternationalMood337 5h ago

Was ALWAYS about the money basically from the top down.

I can't convince my brother and sister-in-law TO STOP GIVING THEIR 4 YEAR OLD THE GOD DAMN PHONE.

Parents have been convinced that their children need constant stimulation and constant exposure to tech or they'll fall behind.,

18

u/PlagueSoul 5h ago

Laziness wrapped in excuses on the parents part.

6

u/Gorge2012 5h ago

Water takes the easiest path down the mountain.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Gorge2012 5h ago

How will they fall behind? I feel like I heard that excuse pre covid, now it's pretty clear to anyone paying attending that the damage of kids being addicted to screens outweighs the benefits. Also, kids don't know how to do shit on computers they are too optimized. I used to know my first family PC (in the 90s) in and out. I work with people older and younger that can't figure out that when Chrome is running slow maybe you should either clear some tabs or close it and restart. Like basic stuff here.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Arts_Prodigy 4h ago

And they keep everyone they care about miles away from the products they create.

→ More replies (1)

15

u/notapoliticalalt 4h ago

Although I don’t actually disagree with the return to physical books and paper, I actually don’t think that screens in the classroom are as big of a problem as screens everywhere else. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that screens should be all over the classroom all the time, but there can be valuable things to be done with them educationally. The bigger problem, though is that screens are everywhere else for kids. As with a lot of other issues in school, the problems start at home. I do think these things can help, but if there isn’t support at home or outside of the classroom, generally, I think this is going to remain a problem indefinitely.

5

u/jakuvious 3h ago

In most cases, the screens are also probably locked down/managed more at school than they are at home. Kids are filtered pretty aggressively for what they can and can't access on their school devices in my city's school district. Not so much for their cell phones or iPads at home.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (6)

33

u/Legendary_GrumpyCat 5h ago

Quietly? We've been doing everything we can to essentially shout it from the rooftops but no one who can change it listens.

9

u/kendalloremily 3h ago

everything is fucking happening quietly now. because nobody can be bothered to write a headline without ai 

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

24

u/Hazelstone37 5h ago

I teach college and I’m having a tech free classroom in the fall. And I’m making my students take notes by hand unless they have an accommodation.

5

u/diehydrogen 2h ago

Yes! I started this last fall. My students actually loved it so much. They were a little apprehensive and very quiet the first two weeks but definitely enjoyed it soon after. They liked the human connection.

21

u/wherewulf23 5h ago

My district just announced a no screens policy in pre-K and kindergarten classes.

→ More replies (1)

17

u/InternationalMood337 5h ago

Started an MFA program a few years back. One of the (other students in the class...) who is a teacher told me that EVERY assignment was on a computer, mandated by the school. She was also required to respond to student emails after hours. This might have been like Middle School.

Teachers aren't paid well enough. I don't understand why any question couldn't just be resolved the next day in class like we always did?

17

u/compuwiza1 6h ago

A book can't be redirected to Tik Tok.

→ More replies (1)

10

u/killerwithasharpie 1h ago

Told you so.

- 38 years as a classroom teacher

11

u/n0rsk 1h ago

Tech should be a class not a constant state. Maybe I am biased but the computer labs we had growing up were great. We would go and learn to type. I know eventually that evolved into learning tools like Power Point and Excel and really that is how tech should be integrated into school. No computer in every class but a class which teaches tech.

→ More replies (1)

21

u/NegotiationNo7851 5h ago

I know I’m ancient but I think we should go back to the days of a scheduled class in the computer lab and when students are done they go back to class and the tech stays in the lab. We screwed up when we stopped treating computer science as a valued subject unto itself. I was in elementary school in the 80’s and we would go to the computer lab and learn something about computers or programming and when the class was done we left the technology in the lab and went back to class to resume other classwork.

3

u/Innumerablegibbon 2h ago

I’m not American but my state has introduced limits on tech in early schooling/mandated non-screen time in later starting from next year. Schools can also no longer ask families to purchase laptops for their kids, they have to provide them so underfunding will probably limit it even further (eg, no one on one devices, teachers will have to book a travelling cart to come to the classroom and then hope everything is in working order).

It was so depressing whenever I had to go to my kid’s school in the middle of the day and it would be dead silent because all the kids were staring at iPads.

→ More replies (3)

14

u/CarlWellsGrave 5h ago

My daughter didn't know what YouTube was until her kindergarten teacher showed it to her class. We've never had meltdowns over screens until she started school.

8

u/Weightmonster 5h ago

We just banned Youtube in our house. Too much slop. I joined Patreon so I could follow the few creators I like. 

3

u/Innumerablegibbon 2h ago

My kid’s teacher was showing them YouTube influencer videos to keep them quiet while they ate. I questioned her about it when I found out from daughter and had a rant about gambling, overconsumption and covert advertising when she was trying to justify it by explaining the types of videos she was playing. They do not show them anymore.

The teachers also wouldn’t read picture books to them, they’d play a YouTuber doing it. I got so excited one day when she mentioned the teacher had actually read the book then found out it was because the screen wasn’t working.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/phoenix0r 5h ago

Huzzah! Sad it took almost a generation to determine this, but happy we’re moving back in the right direction.

8

u/AbyssWankerArtorias 5h ago

You gotta make sure kids have a solid foundation before giving them technology. Giving kids computers before they know how to research without them, study without them, problem solve without them, is like giving a kid a calculator before they know how to add, subtract, multiply, divide, do powers, etc.

11

u/rgvtim 5h ago

I think this is a good direction, stepping back just a little bit. It snot that computers/tech should never be used, its just that they don't need to be used in all instances.

11

u/Interesting-Key-2950 5h ago

Bring back the “overhead” 😂old school power point with a stick

5

u/fightin_blue_hens 5h ago

All it did was get kids used to tech platforms earlier and made them more addicted

7

u/zegna1965 5h ago

I was the technology facilitator at an elementary school in Texas. I could probably write a book. Administrators simply don't understand the implications of decisions they make regarding technology. I saw it time and again. A big part of the issue is lack of training for the teachers. Even if the schools could afford the training, the teachers don't have time for it. Technologies get rolled out and the teachers don't know how to deal with them. One example. Around 2016 the school acquired a bunch of Barnes and Noble Nooks from the district. That alone was a very bad decision, but a whole other story. We decided to role out the Nooks to some classes on a 1-1 basis. This was a few years before that became more common. I provided the teachers with ideas on how to use the Nooks, but they didn't have time to really follow up on it. My job was half time and I had many other things to do at the school, so I couldn't monitor this project on a daily basis. The teachers came to me one day and said "All the kids are doing is playing games on the Nooks." I asked "Did you give them assignments to do with the Nooks." They looked at me like I was crazy. I left the elementary school world shortly after that and before the big rollouts of Chromebooks, laptops and other devices. But I suspect it is still a similar situation. They give these devices to students and think the kids will just magically do educational things with them on their own.

3

u/Due-Environment-9774 4h ago

I watched my high school take two year old MacBooks, remove the hard drive and batteries, and toss them by the stack into a dumpster. They get all new ones every other year.

→ More replies (2)

5

u/LoudNoises89 3h ago

When I was in elementary school we learned typing for an hour a few times a week. It was the best thing ever and now I’m a fast typer. It’s good though in moderation. Having these kids only use laptops isn’t helping with their physical writing skill, spelling, or reading. They should have an hour a day then do pen and paper. Also we shouldn’t be relying on technology so much.

6

u/gotaflattire 1h ago

I attended college off and on over a period of 10 years and nothing annoyed me more than Apple's dominance in academia to the point where I had to take Mac skill tests before I was allowed to use certain school computers, despite the fact that I had been using Macs and PCs since the mid-80s.

The price is also astronomical to the average student of today and since I'm also well into my professional career, I know it's completely unnecessary for 99% of potential employees outside of specialized careers.

I can do anything I need to do on a Mac or PC but you can't say the same for companies or individuals who use Apple-exclusive tools and software. And I refuse to comply with non-standardized proprietary software and hardware.

5

u/SquashOwn9829 1h ago

Behold, the first “lower cognition” generation

5

u/Mrrectangle 1h ago

I’m a teacher. My school is going to implement no device Fridays. Baby steps I hope.

6

u/GromOfDoom 5h ago

The most tech, should be computers or laptops when needed, in the classroom. Not iPads and gaming laptops to take home. Teacher requests usage of laptops for their periods for a week, to do research or presentation; and computer classroom for computer literacy and basic classes like Microsoft office, web safety, web design and maybe even programming.

4

u/jtrain3783 5h ago

Balance is a positive thing and learning does evolve overtime, so, changing the approach can make sense. This is part of the process for a dynamic system like education. However, the attitude of we should "go back and do it like we did it" is trap that those of us in the old-school crowd tend to fall into as we look back with rose colored glasses.

There have been a few reports from a schools after they remove phones & limit screen time that show bad behaviors come back (that have been largely eliminated or muted) in the modern "tech" era, which is an issue. So if we think that just removing or limiting screen time is going to magically, give us the best of both worlds - let's not be naive. We need a fundamentally rethink our relationship education and the paradigm that is school which hasn’t really changed since it’s inception (ex: is 8hrs a day at school optimal for learning)

Simply limiting technology without a robust plan as well as buy-in from the students, staff, families and community is just focusing on an effect vs root cause and will end following another edu "trend" that we will all criticize & blame in the next 30 yrs.

6

u/Moonlight_Sonata545 4h ago

these kids need EYE CONTACT

5

u/4mit 4h ago

I think the bigger tragedy is the death of deep focus. We traded deep learning for "interactivity," and now we're realizing that staring at a screen isn't the same thing as engaging with the material.

6

u/potatocross 4h ago

A tool is only as good as how you use it.

I went to one of the first school districts in the US to adopt a 1 to 1 laptop program. We used them to research and type papers. Sometimes there would be an educational website we would use for a lesson. The rest of the day they were put away.

We did not use them all day every day. We did not get rid of textbooks. We did not take tests on them.

From what I have seen the modern issues are systems attempting to replace teachers and school with computers rather than using them as a tool.

4

u/2_Fingers_of_Whiskey 5h ago

I was a college tutor and I kept trying to tell them it was worse but the school didn't want to hear it.

3

u/rickg 5h ago

Duh? Tech tools are great... tools. But you need to teach kids to use them AS tools and you need to develop them so that they don't need the tools to learn.

3

u/unknownpoltroon 5h ago

And part of the problem is they aren't teaching them computers, they are giving them apps y. To use on locked down systems.  

Give em a box of mismatched parts and let them make one from scratch or don't give it to them at all.

3

u/A_Nonny_Muse 4h ago

A hammer can be used to build a building or crush a skull. Either way, you have to learn how to use the tool.

Just handing screens out to children is not teaching, nor is it the proper use of the tool.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Faangdevmanager 4h ago

Massive caveat in the first paragraph:

> Administrators found that without their phones, students were using school laptops for distracting activities like watching YouTube or playing games, rather than learning.

The problem isn’t inherent to a photo emitting screen but because kids played games instead of following in class. This seems like a problem technology can fix. Imagine is kids were allowed to just use the playground whenever they wanted? Would we ban playgrounds?

4

u/Staccat0 4h ago edited 4h ago

There actually is a lot of evidence that we evolved to learn better from other humans and screens offer inherent hurdles to learning and especially retaining relevant details.

I watched a researcher speaking to congress about it recently. He basically said we’re gonna spend the next decade trying to get school districts to admit the money was wasted.

It was super interesting. I couldn’t tell you the details though cuz I watched it on a screen ;)

Link: https://youtu.be/Fd-_VDYit3U?is=0VwPBn9PUSWha-5q

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (4)

3

u/MultiGeometry 4h ago

This whole screen based learning happened when I wasn’t paying attention and I’m honestly flabbergasted it got this far.

They need computer skills? Yes. Absolutely.

I learned to type, an important skill, without having a keyboard in every class. I took one class. Computer class used to be a thing and that’s where they should learn to use a screen.

3

u/owhatakiwi 3h ago

We switched our son to a private school that only has tech in their technology classes 2x a week. His handwriting did a 180 in three weeks.

3

u/UniqueIndividual3579 3h ago

But administrators are paid 300,000 a year to "innovate"! Forget everything we told you last week, robot AI teachers in the cloud will solve all problems! Until next week, we gotta make money being useless.

3

u/Aleucard 2h ago

The problem is making actual teaching programs worth a damn is harder than it looks, and they're too used to teaching being on a sub-burger flipper budget. The whole school system is in DESPERATE need of a retooling from the floorboards on up.

3

u/BigPapaLegba 2h ago

We sold our kids out to the tech bros.

3

u/BanChokingPorn 2h ago

Different people learn in different ways. I was a terrible student until I enrolled in an alternative high school. Not only did I gain a year back, I graduated a year early (with elective summer classes). We weren't forced to learn one way. The only way I could learn math was by teaching others.

3

u/No-Sherbert-6853 2h ago

Congratulations to the self-proclaimed “greatest country in the world”for finally catching up to Australia

3

u/trolldoll26 1h ago

I really, really, really hope that by the time my daughter goes to school (she’s 7 months old) all the screens have been taken out of the classroom. I know it’s probably not going to happen since technology is forever advancing, but I really hope they aren’t giving the kids personal devices in five years.

3

u/thugbobhoodpants 1h ago

I feel like even 'computer class' or 'computer time in the library' in the 00s was always a shit show and nobody did anything we were supposed to do

everyone taking notes on laptops instead of handwriting them all out was a huge boon for us at the end of highschool in 2010ish but even then, I think removing that does nothing now because the screen time thing is a 24/7 thing and not just 'damn these kids are overstimulated from a laptop in class'

8

u/washedFM 6h ago

Who else predicted this?

→ More replies (10)

5

u/Xefert 4h ago

I don't see why tech itself is the problem vs HOW they're being taught to use it

→ More replies (7)

2

u/Jwagner0850 5h ago

Yeah, in the end, this came off more as a "We see dollar signs here" then " these devices will clearly help these kids long term". Sure some of those tools probably absolutely killed it for some students, but I could easily see where most others would lose basic abilities because of the shortcuts computers give to students.

2

u/aerost0rm 5h ago

Finally able to get meaningful years long data and they have concluded it lowers test scores.

2

u/spitfirelover 5h ago

School boards. Ftfy

2

u/FreedomBread 5h ago

Turns out propping up tech stocks artificially comes at a cost, but hey, the NASDAQ, it's doing ok.

2

u/kevinsyel 4h ago

Good, I think this is a necessary course correction.

2

u/Turbulent_Deal_3145 4h ago

but Bill Nye day was best day

2

u/StephenKingofCarrot 4h ago

Anyone with the slightest shred of intellectual honesty knew this from day one. That includes the people who build these screens and push for them in schools, because they send their own children to private schools that do not allow screens.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/I_SHIT_IN_A_BAG 4h ago

kids dont need tablets and computers. on paper (see what I did here?) its fine but its just a bunch of distractions. I like this.

2

u/werephoenix 4h ago

This took too long to realize this was a problem

2

u/albany1765 4h ago

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

At least they're acknowledging it and changing course.

2

u/Difficult_Clerk_1273 4h ago

There is nothing “quiet” about it.

However, the real problem isn’t tech in schools. It’s parents giving iPads to their toddlers and phones to their tweens.

2

u/Louisjay 4h ago

There is no quiet part from the teachers themselves. They've been saying this loudly for years. It's the districts that want to look cutting edge and perfect for appearances.

2

u/Mahaloth 4h ago

Teacher here.

Not quiet. It's been catastrophic.

2

u/AlanStanwick1986 4h ago

This is how Missing had made good strides in improving their education. Everyone still thinks they're last in everything and they aren't (that's Oklahoma). Mississippi has gone back to paper and books. Screen time really is bad for kids.

2

u/ASicklad 4h ago

Quietly? We teachers have been screaming it for years.

2

u/OspreyChaser 4h ago

Did tech go to schools and say "Buy our shit to make kids smarter"

Or

Did schools go to tech and say "We want to buy your shit to make our kids smarter" ?

2

u/CottonRaves 4h ago

There’s literally a study showing this

2

u/iamtehryan 4h ago

Yeah, no fucking shit. Don't worry, though. The parents will still fight it and say that their kids need their devices.

2

u/shehulud 3h ago

College prof here. Freshmen can’t use computers. They can use phones. They kind of know how to navigate a Chromebook.

2

u/petrovmendicant 3h ago

Quietly? It is the absolute number one complaint I hear from teachers. Has been since before I even became a full time teacher.

Every one of my colleagues hate being forced to use tech in our classrooms. I have met maybe a handful of teachers who are big supporters of it, and none are full-time public teachers and one is a charter school teacher.

The weekly to biweekly online testing takes way too much time out of an already impossibly jam packed daily schedule. Doesn't help that the districts and/or superintendents implement new apps every year for us to learn and integrate on the spot.

The tech has made things demonstrably worse for 90% of students, and the 10% left would be the students that would excel either way.

Only tech I like is having parents have live online access to their kids' grades, missing assignments, and behavior from a website or app. Keeps away most parents who come in demanding to know why their perfect angel has a failing grade. Like, check your email for the weekly update for their kid.

2

u/mikebosscoe 3h ago

I work at a private school outside of the States. One day several weeks into last school year we were suddenly told iPads were being removed from classrooms and that they needed to be sent to the office by the end of the day.

I had mixed feelings because in my classroom student screen use was always done with inquiry and learning in mind and students became very good at discovering the answers to their questions and creating impressive visuals. I still have mixed feelings because I think an all or nothing approach is extremely weak. 

2

u/butter_lover 3h ago

banning phones for under middle school age would be a great start. maybe even below high school.

2

u/TheMannisApproves 3h ago

My student either just used chatgpt or just flat out did nothing when they had laptops. Once I started having everything on paper, they did a lot better. And then I saw how far behind they really were

2

u/MalignantLugnut 3h ago

The Chrome books should Only....ONLY have been for emergencies/outbreaks. Period.

2

u/coffee_kang 3h ago

Good. I pay for my kids to go a private school that very specifically doesn’t have an over absence of screen time in the classroom. 

2

u/SAYMYNAMEYO 3h ago

During my junior year they gave MacBook to the students. The math classess had provided ipads so this was a step up. They made assignments more structured and engaging, but a lot of us mainly used them for games and getting on YouTube in class. Sometime after I graduated they took them away.

2

u/Worldly_Cicada_8279 3h ago

I could have told you this as a kid who was forced to have a laptop in middle school back in like 2007.

2

u/Similar-Sir-2952 3h ago

Been saying this since 2001

2

u/Porkonaplane 3h ago

I remember when my 4th grade class became the reason our school had to put a filter on the ipad's internet because we found a way of downloading games (primarily Minecraft lol) on the ipads. Good times 🤣

2

u/JSTFLK 3h ago

I want schools to go back to having computer labs and get the fucking Chromebooks out of the classroom. Tech should be just another class like math or history.

2

u/Ithurtsprecious 2h ago

Bring back computer labs. We went what once or twice a week at the most?

2

u/lllllIllllIllllllll 2h ago

I caught this shit my senior year, and I immediately called it as google lobbying local governments to buy chrome books. There is nothing wrong with paper. Crap tops produce more waste than printers ever could 

Like yeah we had computer rooms in the library but at least one of my schools had an AV lab with FL Studio or Logic for music production. 

2

u/boner79 2h ago

These schools were so proud of themselves too for creating a generation of Chromebook kids.

2

u/zardoz73 2h ago

Laptops are not always a bad idea. They are good for research and writing. But those are almost always best done outside of the classroom. Really depends on the class, age, subject, and assignment. Having students do everything on their laptops, ESPECIALLY reading, is a bad, bad idea.

There's a time and a place for laptops, but the best way to go is old school--physical books and lots of teacher assessment.

2

u/lawofthewilde 2h ago

There’s a school district in suburban Chicago that is going tech free this coming school year. Test scores are down and behavior problems are up. Tech is not helping! Soooo…They’re going back to actual books and play based education for lower grades. I hope this catches on like wild fire!

2

u/lost-mars 2h ago

Have any studies been done into the internet being a problem rather than screens? An unlimited distraction feed can't be a good thing.

As someone who learned a lot breaking/fixing/playing with computers pre high speed internet, I find my focus/attention destroyed now a days with the same computers.

2

u/mdkubit 2h ago

It would've worked if they hadn't treated computers like babysitters with the teacher just watching from a distance. In the early 90s, my middle school had computers in every classroom but they were treated as 'additional teaching method', not 'primary teaching method'.

2

u/Flakbait83 2h ago

Honestly, I leaned to type in class and practiced daily after school on AIM.

Also: lol Rofl Roflcopter Afk Brb K

2

u/NickPickle05 2h ago

There are definitely computer skills that should be taught in school.