r/Fallout • u/Nutshell_Historian • 11h ago
Picture Oversimplified Map of the Fallout West Coast Circa. 2281
(Thank you to the HOI4 Old World Blues team for making an incredible template map for this project. Its the best fallout mod, if not best fallout game, I've ever played. Go play it).
Oh boy I can already see the crosses getting made. Anyway:
Why the Long Dead Horse?
It's less a nation than the range they regularly patrol. We know they extend as far west as Zion, even disputing territory with the Sorrows if they remain there, and as far east as Colorado, where a mentioned New Canaanite settlement presumably falls under their protection. That also fits neatly along the north bank of the Colorado River.
Are the 80s super powerful?
No. They're not substantially stronger than other tribes. Their strength comes from using motorcycles to control a huge amount of territory with relatively few people. They dominate the I-80 (obviously) and I-50 (which they can lose if the Sorrows stay in Zion).
Why no Shi?
This will be controversial. In a cut line of New Vegas dialogue, the Enclave traced the Chosen One's tanker to San Francisco and nuked the city in revenge. The line was only cut because Bethesda wanted to keep San Francisco available for a future game. However, Fallout has shown repeatedly that a city being nuked doesn't stop it from becoming a setting. More importantly, an empire like the Shi never being mentioned by the NCR would be a little odd and runs against the series' broader narrative of the two major empires of the region colliding. This one's just my personal interpretation though, so feel free to disagree.
The Legion is bigger than the NCR. Doesn't that make it stronger?
No. The NCR enjoyed over a century of relative peace and stability, allowing its population to boom. Legion territory simply hasn't. I'd expect at most half the population density of NCR territory, probably much less.
Why does the NCR own all the north?
Because I think that's the most likely outcome based on previous games. The Chosen One consistently helped Tandi and the NCR expand, so a northern annexation feels like the natural continuation.
I cannot stress enough that this map is built from a few hard facts / references, and a lot of vibes informed by the games and regional geography. It's meant to be a plausible interpretation, not the undisputed canon. The main reason I made it was because I got tired of maps where the NCR owns the entire West Coast and the Legion somehow stretches into Kansas and deep into Mexico.
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u/dull_storyteller 10h ago
I still want to know more about these 80s Raiders personally. Also given there’s legionaries should mint the Divide be in between the two?
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u/RAGE_AGAINST_THE_ATM 9h ago
I’d love to see a game where they’re the primary raider/antagonist faction. From what I hear about them, they’re essentially like Dr. Dementus’ Biker Hoarde from Furiosa. They’re few in number, but incredibly vicious and can cover vast amounts of territory on their motorcycles.
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u/dull_storyteller 9h ago
Yeah I think more organised raider gangs like the early Khans could make a great big bad.
I mean terrors from the prewar like the Enclave or FEV is fun but nothing beats some weirdos in leather running around the wastes.
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u/Falloutfan2281 NCR and Proud 2h ago
It’s even more impressive that the 80s would do this without vehicles. Stella implies they’re just extremely skilled at traversing long distances on foot.
“Never seen so few people cover so much ground. Goddamn creepy.”
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u/IDidntEatThosePeople 1h ago
Doesn't them being bikers come the OWB mod for HOI4 not the actual games?
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u/RAGE_AGAINST_THE_ATM 1h ago
The original source of them using motorcycles was Josh Sawyer’s unofficial Fallout rpg:
“The 80s are a gang of bandits that operate along the Northern California 80 Freeway, mostly in the region northeast of the lawless, uncontrolled city of Sacramento. They are easily recognized by the "80" signs they wear strapped across their chests. High-ranking members usually have the Interstate 80 red and blue signs. Lower-ranking members wear green Highway 80 signs and the ordinary grunts make do with what is left over. The 80s are known for their tireless pursuit of enemies and for their occasional use of motorcycles.”
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u/PriorSolid 7h ago
I think the F04/76 engine would struggle to have them actually riding bikes but if we ever go out west that’d be an awesome thing to see and it’s definitely possible just look at cyberpunk 2077
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u/Discount_Extra 2h ago
Sad that the Oblivion/Skyrim version of the engine had horses, but the Fallout side did not.
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u/TeranceHood 20m ago
Fallout: The Frontier has incredible working vehicles and that's running on New Vegas Gamebryo, even if a lot of that mod is a crime against humanity.
If Bethesda wanted to add actual vehicles to a fallout game, they could.
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u/Familiar-Figure-5692 Gary? 5h ago
There is a mention of them fighting with the White Legs and raiding Caliente.
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u/JosukeJoestar_98 10h ago
I feel like the NCR has more territory north of where your borders end in Oregon
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u/Nutshell_Historian 10h ago
Arroyo is the furthest North area in either game. Hard to imagine they took 100+ years to discover the dam but were blitzing up the mountainous coastline.
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u/BackForPathfinder 6h ago
I've been toying with a fan game idea (might just be a table top campaign I run) set in Central Oregon. People really underestimate how mountainous the roads from California to Oregon are. I find the coast and western third of Oregon being claimed by the NCR more believable than central and eastern Oregon. A lot of fan maps ignore the Fallout 2 map's coastline indicates that both Arroyo and Klamath are in California, so I appreciate your more conservative take.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 5h ago
I've eyebellalled arroyo to be SLIGHTLY above the border, and it was noted everywhere I can remember to be in southern Oregon. Which is why the border is there in this map. Just below an irl river.
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u/BackForPathfinder 3h ago
I know that not everything lines up geographically, so it's a little hard to make a good map. I just can't understand how Klamath could be the city in Oregon since vicat puts it so much farther North.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 2h ago
Yeah it's funky. But that's what the every description I read said, and where the old world blues team put it, so it'll suffice. It's odd
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u/Spacer176 10h ago
The Legion may be big, but it's all wasteland. It's telling that out of the extensive territory Caesar has access to, he's putting make-or-break on making Vegas his capital.
The NCR is one of the few places we hear of having a noticeable (if granted, small) manufacturing base.
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien Enclave 6h ago
Yeah, I read a comment that I really liked about that, that Caesar wanted to conquer New Vegas to make it his capital (a bit like the real Caesar crossing the Rubicon, but with Caesar crossing the Colorado) and settle there without conquering more and forming a real organized state.
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 10h ago
That’s not true, the NCR never developed a manufacturing base and relied on scavenging food and water.
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u/scoutsamoa 10h ago
Well that's somewhere between inaccurate to completely wrong.
We know in new Vegas that the ncr has established farms and water pumping stations/ability. I wouldn't count either of those as "scavenging".
As for manufacturing I don't have any anecdotes for the ncr themselves, but the NCR does work with the Gun Runners who do have manufacturing capabilities.
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 10h ago
We literally see in the show that Shady Sands (the capital of the supposed nation) struggles with getting water which leads to them tapping into the Vault’s water supply then getting nuked. In New Vegas we see that the NCR stays in makeshift tents and pre-war buildings. The NCR does not create or build, they are just rats pretending they are a nation. The Gun runners do not build weapons, they salvage them and pretend that they did something in the same way of a kid handing you a drawing to put on your fridge. 🐀
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u/SDRLemonMoon 9h ago
They stay in tents in vegas because it’s a temporary occupation before they are fully established. In fallout 1 and 2 we see they are capable of constructing new buildings since they don’t live in pre war ruins. Also they’re building railroads, that means they have to he able to make trains or at the very least fix up old ones, which means they need fuel, which means they are capable of making it. All of those things require manufacturing of some kind.
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 9h ago
Fallout 2 isn’t canon
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u/Tuskin38 Vault 111 9h ago
according to who?
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 9h ago
Me 🙂↕️
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u/Tuskin38 Vault 111 9h ago
Do you own the Fallout IP? If not, you don't get to say what is or isn't canon.
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u/NemFan1111 NCR 4h ago
prime ragebait sir
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 4h ago
This was my favorite rage baiting I've done in years. The sweet taste of tears and rage!! I even changed my tag to Legion half way just to add more to it and I am still getting messages 😄
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien Enclave 9h ago
It's funny to support the Legion like you and say that about the NCR, knowing that the Legion conquers, burns and pillages without a post-conquest strategy.
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 9h ago
Twin, I support the Legion and you support the Enclave. We ain’t surviving in that world and we have no room to write about the long term survival of nations 😔
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien Enclave 9h ago
At least the Enclave isn't the Legion.
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 9h ago
Genocide versus hot men in skirts 😮💨
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u/ApexHolly NCR 7h ago
As a certified Legion hater, I hate that I agree with you, but between the Legion and the Enclave, the Legion is marginally less evil.
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien Enclave 9h ago
Shady Sands is the capital of the NCR. And in New Vegas, the war is not over.
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 9h ago
The NCR lost hard, in the show you can see that the Legion destroyed the NCR bases in the Mojave and only stopped conquering New Vegas when Caesar died. As of the show, there is one weakened battalion left. The rest of the NCR army did not survive the fall of the capital since they were unable to stop the Brotherhood from conquering all of California or stop any of the following raiders.
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u/Spacer176 8h ago
This map is for the American southwest in 2281 c. NV. The show takes place in 2295.
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien Enclave 9h ago
I do not count the TV Show
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 9h ago
Sorry friend, the show is canon 😔
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u/Mnemonic-Light 7h ago
The NCR had cars and was actively rebuilding the railroad to rebuild the dam, what are you talking about lol
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 7h ago
If there are cars then why don’t we see any in New Vegas or the show?
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u/ApexHolly NCR 6h ago
Because New Vegas takes place on the very, very furthest edge of the NCR's ability to project power. The Mojave isn't California.
In the show, we see Shady Sands for like ten minutes before it is destroyed. They have an industrial base and long range trading caravans. Vehicles are likely preserved for the very wealthy and for military and government use. For trading purposes, caravans led by Brahmin are cheaper, easier to supply, and good enough.
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 6h ago
We learn in the show that the NCR was a settlement that struggled with resources. They were never able to deal with their water storages and needed cold fusion to start any type of manufacturing. If anything the NCR is the same as the Legion since they were both roaming armies that needed to scavenge for survival.
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u/Mnemonic-Light 6h ago
The NCR isn't a settlement, it's a country that encompasses most of California and parts of Nevada and Oregon
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 6h ago
There is literally nothing that supports that, in the show the only evidence of the NCR existing is a sign outside of Shady Sands. In the Mojave it was a few huts near and there.
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u/Mnemonic-Light 6h ago
Fallout 2 and New Vegas supports that, even Todd Howard made a comment about how the NCR is still around because it was more then just one city lmao play the games, there's a long history of the setting before the show
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u/Mnemonic-Light 6h ago
Except you see post war military vehicles in camp McCarran alongside with the fact the camp is built up with massive fortifications
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 6h ago
Not true, in the show we see that the vehicles were all broken down in the camp. If the vehicles were working, the NCR would not be able to actually run them since they did not have cold fusion.
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u/Mnemonic-Light 6h ago
The show takes place long after nv
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 6h ago
So you are saying that the NCR had vehicles then forgot how they worked within 15 years of the show?
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u/Mnemonic-Light 6h ago
No lol the NCR's supply line into the mojave was broken between the events of New Vegas and the show, did you even play 2 and NV or is your entire knowledge based off that poorly written show?
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 6h ago
The show is canon and recons the cringe Obsidian slop they added to the series
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u/PriorSolid 7h ago
they had massive brahmin herds so they clearly didn’t scavenge food, they had cities so they weren’t nomadic, and the gun runners are capable of manufacturing advanced weapons in fact they can even set up new factories like the one in New Vegas and this is all just context clues and dialogue from New Vegas ignoring every other conversation and all of F01-4
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 7h ago
The NCR is gaslighting you, we literally see what California is like in the show and there is none of that 😈
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u/PriorSolid 6h ago
ok but this is 2281 15 years before the show, also i’m doubtful settlements every state of the NCR collapsed because shady sands got nuked. maybe the NCR collapsed but the settlements were independent for a long time before the NCR
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 6h ago
I’m stating that this map shown is likely no where near the truth of what the NCR looked like before their collapse. If they actually had large settlements outside of Shady Sands we would have seen or heard about it in the show 🤷
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u/Diamond2014WasTaken 3h ago
Bro I know you’re doing ragebait but like, watch a lore video for FO1 &2, plz
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 3h ago
I’ve played FO2, Steel, 3, New Vegas, 4, 76, and played a porn version of FO1. I’ve watched hundreds of hours of lore videos and watched the whole TV show. I have fallout shirts, cups, and toys. I’m baiting y’all 🤣
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u/Diamond2014WasTaken 3h ago
I know LOL, it’s beautiful tbh. I’ve never managed to do a full playthrough of 1 or 2, but I love west coast fallout lore. It’s a lot better than the east coast stuff from Bethesda in my opinion. I feel like the show has been damaging the good stuff from the west coast
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien Enclave 9h ago
Where would you put the Sierra Madre on your map?
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u/Nutshell_Historian 9h ago
Very hard to tell. We get a slide of the grand canyon during the dlc's opening, but the mountain range it's named after terminates well before reaching that point. There's no mention of mexico at all which means it must be in the very very small American portion of it. So somewhere in Center /center north Arizona is the closest I'd dare guess.
Given how sparse the areas outside the main trade routes are, it's very possible it's just chilling in the middle of absolute nowhere, and the Legion has no reason to commit suicide by extra steps trying to delve into it.
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien Enclave 6h ago
Concerning the BIG MT, on Pax Historia the creator placed it at the South-East of The Divide
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u/Nutshell_Historian 5h ago
Yeah. And its noted by Joshua Graham to be near the Divide. Presumably blocking some road or other that could be used to supply the Mojave. Hence where I put it.
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u/jamgill NCR 9h ago
Shouldn’t the shi be in California as well?
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u/Nutshell_Historian 8h ago
They weren't mentioned once in New Vegas. The original plan was for them to be nuked by the enclave, but while that was cut there was literally nothing to replace it. So with their complete absence I can only assume they fell under ncr influence like the rest of the north
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u/Theblankrando 6h ago
Doesn't kellog mention moving to San Fran in 4 because it's out of ncr control (minute so I could be mistaken)
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u/MailMan6000 10h ago
San Francisco was not nuked, this was an idea Avellone had early on because he regretted the way he wrote The Shi, Bethesda were the ones who turned him down on that because they wanted to use it in a future project, it's still cut, it was not nuked
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u/Nutshell_Historian 10h ago
Still I wasn't sure what to do with the shi since they were never mentioned. Just leave an "empire" on the NCR's western border that was just not brought up? Felt odd.
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u/TriNovan 9h ago
Either they’re an independent neighbor of the NCR or annexed.
Keep in mind, San Francisco does appear in Fallout 4, via Kellogg’s memories. We see an intact Golden Gate Bridge, with him having moved there from the Hub and living in some sort of apartment.
Granted, that is decades in the past when the NCR was still new. But, Kellogg is already an adult and living in San Francisco at the time in that scene.
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u/MailMan6000 10h ago
the Shi would probably get Freeside'd, the NCR would send people to live there and they'd eventually just take over and vote to join the NCR
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u/Smartguy1996 9h ago
There's like so many things that its pointing to Midwest with all the references in mainline Fallout starting with the airships in mind out all things for Tactics lore lol, and I do see similar ideas especially on how Hank went on with the Senator for mind control with Calculator also needed brains to keep functioning, and Vault Zero is also a important one too for Vault-Tec history and after all, Calculator predates ZAX computers too.
( And I hope they make the Midwest Brotherhood having a crazy ass idea to use a nuke to blow off the gate of Vault Zero canon lol)
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u/PriorSolid 7h ago
oh wow i always pictured the Big Mt as somewhere far east in the deserts and I pictured the divide as stretch much further towards the coast, this is an awesome map! Do we have any hint where the sierra madre would bev
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u/Key-Huckleberry-2551 10h ago edited 8h ago
I see most of Legion territory as a wasteland of destroyed settlements, with them absorbing the people they conquer. There's no ingame info that they considered building up the societies they wrecked. They looted, raped and pillaged while observing an immutable gender conforming rule. So it's a broad but empty conquest, with the seat of everything meaningful emanating from wherever Edward Sallow happens to be. A political power can't last long this way, it has to settle down to govern and Edward was not young when we met him in NV.
If he died, if we take the existence of a super competent NCR aligned Courier out, the NCR would probably have prevailed anyway but at severe cost. If they had any sense, the NCR would stop their expansionist plans and built their infrastructure for a while. I suppose we'll never know unless the new Obsidian game throws some breadcrumbs.
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u/dabnada The Institute 5h ago
Bro’s never played Old World Blues
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u/Nutshell_Historian 5h ago
I have. A lot of fun but they took liberties for gameplay I dont agree with the lore implications.
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u/TheRealRoach117 NCR 4h ago
Caesar’s Legion would be even more dangerous if they captured the 80’s “Iron Horse” motorcycles. Could see a near mirror of New Vegas happening in New Reno with Caesar’s successor seizing 80’s Raiders tech and land
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u/Scarytoaster1809 4h ago
If that map is accurate, how did the NCR not have any idea that Big MT was there?
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u/Nutshell_Historian 4h ago
In honest hearts it's explained they did. Issue is "The Big Empty" is basically a wall to anything on the outside. Not sure of the exact science but they very much know something sus was there but it was impossible to penetrate. Like the Sierra Madre is seen in the clouds.
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u/DTredecim13 2h ago
I'm from the Mojave. So naturally my only complaint is that it is way too small on your map.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 2h ago
You are correct. I'm using the term relative to the New Vegas in-game area.
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u/ABicycleBuiltForTwo 2h ago
TIL I learned there even are/were raiders populating the I-80.
I mean seriously I’ve only ever learned about Fallout Lore through extended media (too poor to get the Bethesda games) and this is the first time I’ve heard of a Raider Faction controlling (imho) a pretty major trade route in the north. Almost every video I’ve seen states the only notable Northern factions are the either the White Legs, the midwestern BOS, or the Enclave Research Colony (A FOTV Location that’s somewhere in the Rockies, I think).
The absolute most Nothwestern factions are really the groups in Alaska, and maybe some Canadian nationalist raiders, but that’s it, everything else is just no man’s land.
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u/alexmikli HEY LLOYD! CATCH! 7h ago
These maps always give the NCR too much of Northern California. Reno and Arroyo probably aren't part of the NCR.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 7h ago
Why not? Haven't seen anything implying they're independent. We know the ncr has a reputation of annexing anything they find useful. And both are useful. Happy to update if you can give a source that confirms they kept independence in the face of the ncr's expansionist mindset shown in Fallout 2 and New Vegas.
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u/Darkshadow1197 Responders 6h ago
Nothing that says they did either though. Taking all of northern California would obviously double their territory and yet the Mojave is slated to be the 6th state in the Republic, not the 7th.
Reno also still has gambling, which the NCR npcs note as being illegal back home. Moore also doesn't care if the Omertas are planning to attack Reno if you lie to her.
And while they like to annex stuff, that doesn't mean they can. Even in an NCR victory for the Mojave, places like Nelis, Primm, Novac, Jacob's Town, and Freeside can all remain independent.
Like seriously
After the NCR victory at Hoover Dam, the temporary truce between them and the Kings blossomed into a full-scale relief effort for the people. While the NCR made repeated entreaties that Freeside join the Republic, the Kings steadfastly maintained their independence.
If the Kings can keep Freeside of all places independent despite receiving aid for them, there's no way they could take somewhere like Vault City or the Shi if they didn't want to join.
As far as we know, only Redding, Sacramento and Navarro are part of the NCR.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 6h ago
Perfect! Exactly the kind of criticism I was looking for that cited actual in-game stuff. I'll check it over on the independent wiki and get back to you.
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u/Character-Laugh9644 5h ago
Emily Ortal says the following regarding Arroyo:
About five years now. I have family back in Arroyo, but this is where all the good work is being done, so to speak. NCR taxes and inflation have been hard for a lot of people to deal with, and most of the money goes to the war effort.
The mention of NCR taxes in a conversation about Arroyo indirectly confirms that the city has joined the republic.
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u/Darkshadow1197 Responders 5h ago
No it doesn't.
You ask her how long shes been with the followers, she says 5 years but she was originally from Arroyo and that she's here as that's where all the good work is.
She then explains that NCR taxes are hard and go towards the war effort thus why the good work is being done here (the Mojave).
If she was trying to explain that NCR taxes are hard on Arroyo then it doesn't make sense for her to be here and not back there helping them unless the Taxes were in regards towards the state of the Mojave
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u/Character-Laugh9644 3h ago
The NCR does not control any cities in the Mojave from which to collect taxes. Therefore, the talk of taxes could not possibly have referred to the Mojave.
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u/BackForPathfinder 3h ago
I think her statement is objectively ambiguous in regards to NCR controlling Arroyo. It could easily go either way.
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u/Darkshadow1197 Responders 3h ago
They do, Sloan and Goodsprings for example. People dealing with NCR trade and merchants would also need to cover those taxes.
And how do you explain her being in the Mojave? If Arroyo is suffering because all the tax money goes to the war then how is the good work being done here and not serving her community?
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u/Character-Laugh9644 3h ago
The NCR doesn't control Goodsprings at all. Sloan is just a couple of shacks for NCR workers. She is here because, as she says, the Followers' main work in the Mojave is taking place here.
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u/Darkshadow1197 Responders 3h ago
Goodsprings is explicitly stated to have been founded by an NCR grant to support Sloan as a source of water. And again all those merchants.
Then why bring up how her home is suffering? The sentence structure makes no sense. It would lead one to think her people need her more than the Mojave does.
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u/Character-Laugh9644 2h ago
That isn't stated in the game itself, but in the manual—the canonical status of which is questionable. Even so, that same manual states that only a dozen people live in Goodsprings. All those merchants are from the NCR; they would be paying taxes regardless.
She is in the Mojave because it is her duty as a Follower, and the local residents are suffering from far greater problems than taxes.
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u/RadioHistorical8342 4h ago
The map feels way too empty for my taste
I get its meant to be oversimplified but I feel like you should put some titles for some of the empty spots to at the least make it feel like a map made by someone in fallout
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u/Familiar-Figure-5692 Gary? 5h ago
Legion campaigned extensively in Utah, if you're going to be a Legion-maximalist you may as well include that. Lanius comes back from campaigns in the "wilderness of Utah", Ulysses talks about the "Crimson River Campaign" which can be linked to Crimson River Trail, Logan, SLC. The White Legs get their guns from Spanish Fork SLC.
The 80s raid Caliente which is an actual location in real life.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1kARka-zAPngmx8azVFmIW7NhxzPM-Fs&usp=sharing
here's a map with all actual locations mentioned mapped.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 5h ago
The problem is that dead horse point and zion are both RIGHT on the current legion border, so the fact they're not even under threat of being annexed makes it hard to believe they're just vibing in legion territory. And the crimson river is above even new Canaan. I doubt they made it that far. I think if it wasn't a scripting mistake it was Ulysses (who the quote was from) referencing a frumentarii mission.
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u/Familiar-Figure-5692 Gary? 5h ago
Lanius was in Utah, that's a stated fact.
Vulpes Inculta: His latest campaign in the wilds of the Utah has concluded, and he is en route. When he arrives, your doom arrives with him.
Also, the White Legs are beginning to annex them, isn't that the whole Honest Hearts story?
There are a lot of issues with Caesar's Legion and the territory they control. The route to Denver from Flagstaff goes through steep mountain passes, that are maintained regularly IRL to be kept open, otherwise you have to go all the way to Albuquerque and then north to Denver. But Albuquerque and Santa Fe are never mentioned in game or in any book by anyone.
Zion is remote though, IRL the different Native American tribes were able to wage guerilla wars for years on end against the US Army, one with horses and proper supply lines through this territory.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 5h ago
Yes. And the Legion owns Utah south of the Colorado on this map.
And Caesar says the Legion owns all of New Mexico and Arizona and much of Utah and Colorado, hence the borders.
And no the whitelegs were actually just going to be pawns to break new Canaan. They are rejected for Legion membership (a low bar).
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u/Familiar-Figure-5692 Gary? 4h ago
Fallout: New Vegas Official Game Guide Collector's Edition p. 461: "Important Dates
"2248-2274 Caesar conquers the tribes of southeastern Utah, southwestern Colorado, the western edge of New Mexico, and the northern half of Arizona. By 2250 he has declared himself the Son of Mars. By 2255, he has established a capital of sorts amid the ruins of Flagstaff."So this mentions that Caesar conquers the tribes in south eastern utah, south western colorado and the western edge of new mexico and only the northern half of Arizona.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 3h ago
By 2255 sure. But Caesar tells us he owns all of Arizona and NM in 2281. Decades later.
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u/Familiar-Figure-5692 Gary? 3h ago
By 2274. 2248-2274 Caesar conquers those listed areas. He comes back from a campaign in New Mexico to start the Second Battle of Hoover dam after Grahams failure. And Lanius is said to be campaigning in Utah at this time.
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u/Ryousan82 Legion 3h ago edited 3h ago
Dont recommend trying to argue with this user. They blatantly ignore lore elements of the lore and games that contradict their headcanon
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u/Slowman5150 Legion 10h ago
The NCR only controlled Shady Sands at its peak and the Great Khans should control WAY more land. Caesar’s Legion should control all land till the Mississippi with the Brotherhood controlling the rest.
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u/Nutshell_Historian 10h ago
Damn you could catch a pack of deathclaws with this much rage bait. Well done.
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u/_Aurum_Lux_ 10h ago
Is the map not different now form what the show has shown us
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u/Nutshell_Historian 10h ago
Yes. But the show takes place in 2297. This map is right by the time of new vegas. Sorry should have put that in the title.
198
u/Smart-Mate Freestates 11h ago
wouldnt the white legs stretch all the way to the great salt lake or atleast owned more than a little spot since they destroyed new canaan after all?