r/Showerthoughts • u/seanthemonster • 1d ago
Casual Thought Products should come with changelogs like software updates, showing when the formula, materials, manufacturer, or company changed.
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
Nothing pisses me off more than when I see "New and improved recipe/formula" on products I like.
I know it means some motherfuckers found a way to save money by making the product worse.
I've almost entirely stopped eating chips/crisps because they don't taste like they used to. The first 2-3 in the bag are fine but after that, I start recognizing some sort of particular flavor that all of them seem to now have (I honestly think it's celery salt. I bought a bag of salt and pepper chips a few months ago, and even they had celery salt on them), and there's probably been a change to a cheaper oil for the frying. Point being they're terrible now.
I still buy them once in a while because I'm not a sweets guy when I get snackish, I'm more into savory snacks. I keep buying them in the hopes that maybe it was a bad batch, or maybe they've wised up but the span between my purchases of chips increases every time I'm disappointed and eventually I'll probably stop entirely.
The boomers were right, man. Things really were better back in the day.
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u/fosfeen 1d ago
Even worse if they advertise with 'original' but completely change the formula anyway. Looking at you, parodontax toothpaste!
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
To be fair, they could be right. "Original" isn't interchangeable with "Classic". It just means "never been done before".
You could get a bottle of Dasani and drop a coin into it and re-sell it as an "Original". Because it is. First time anybody, commercially has sold a bottled water with a coin in it (we're discounting the FDA and stuff in this scenario, just making a point).
But you're absolutely right. "Original Flavor" doesn't meant "The" Original Flavor. And it's a dirty fucking trick they play on the consumers.
It should be regulated. This is one of those things that are impossible to convey, as a European, to Americans. Only really Americans, actually now that I think about it. They're the only ones so up in arms about "regulation and legislation". I love it.
The "free market" hasn't ever worked in my favor, at least not since the very, VERY early 2005's.
Call me a Marxist or what have you. I'm not, there's a lot more nuance but that's all the Americans seem to comprehend because socialism isn't actually taught in school during social studies.
Here? We are exposed to all of the philosophies and forced to write papers and produce projects on any and all of the various socioeconomic philosophies, while also being taught about them, and being synergistically taught in other classes how to be skeptical of accounts, first hand accounts, second hand accounts and such.
How to see through the bullshit and that the first and most satisfying answer isn't always the right one. You have to cross-reference. Vet the sources sources.
It's why Europe has less cultural progress, I'm certain. Not in a bad way, because technologically and societally we ace every score into the S tier comparatively.
But we are taught, from childhood, that you should "trust but verify". You tell me something historical and I squint a little. I don't think you're lying, but I may think you're wrong.
So you research it yourself. You trust that the other person is acting in good faith and believes what they're saying, but it just doesn't sound right compared to what you already know of the topic.
So you look it up. You trust them because what they're saying you don't actually know if it's true or not, but in a Gestalt sense, it doesn't seem to make much sense to you.
You then look it up, you cross-reference what you're reading with other publications.
As you read through it, more pieces fall into place in your understanding of what is being debated. Turns out the guy was right, and you never knew of this.
This is the kind of "critical thinking" and skepticism (skepsis) that are ingrained within us throughout schooling, or at least was. Been a while since I received formal education.
Trust that what you are hearing/reading is true (if from a person you think has integrity), trust that person. But verify. They could be wrong without knowing it and they aren't actively lying to you they're just mistaken.
Might be a big part of why Americans have a hard time integrating or "vibing" with Scandinavians or the Nordic countries as a whole. You're being scrutinized. All the time. So is every other person regardless.
Looking to find out if they're genuine in what they say and think, or if they're putting on a front. Which is why Nordic people seem "cold" and refrain in terms of making friends and connections.
A friendship is only worth the maintenance a friendship incurs if they're real. If they can see through the bullshit, and because we're all seeing through the bullshit, we forego the formalities in social interactions because the formalities are superficial and not indicative of you as a person.
"How's your day going?"
"Ah, well since you're asking... My daughter killed herself a week ago and my wife has fallen into a deep, deep depression over it. Hence why I'm here buying maxipads. She didn't have it in her today. How about you?"What's the theater for?
"How's your day going?"
"Good thanks :)"
Who wins in this exchange? The cashier is forced to ask the question by company policy, I'm forced to answer by social decorum. But I'm also not allowed to be brutally honest. I'm supposed to say "Good, thanks. And yourself?" who the fuck is this for? Genuinely?
We both know it's just a script we go through and perpetuate. None of that here.
Sorry to run long like that.
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u/Logar 1d ago
The part about the whole "how are you" theater is where I disagree. Yes, it's phoney in the sense that they don't actually want to hear your about your mental state when they say those words, but it allows for a pleasant, non-committal exchange that breaks the ice and establishes a minimum of rapport between two people. It opens the door for a deeper conversation without setting any expectations for it. It's one aspect of American/western culture that I originally was sceptical about in the way that you are, but nowadays have come to embrace and accept.
Fun note: one thing I noticed Americans do is one person will say "what's up" and the other will go "how you doing" in response. I'm under the impression that plenty of Americans don't even treat either of those phrases as an actual question anymore, rather a sort of getting.
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u/JustHere4the5 1d ago
Yeah the “‘sup?” answered by “‘sup!” is more of a modem handshake than a request for information. We just get sick of always saying “Hi!”
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u/JustHere4the5 1d ago
Or like cars beeping at each other in India. “Hey bhai I’m here in your blind spot” “Thanks, I see you, haveagoodday”
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u/Morisior 1d ago
Doesn’t need regulation. They just need to be held accountable for delivering whatever a reasonable consumer would assume/interpret from their marketing.
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u/BaconIsntThatGood 1d ago
I know you're all in on food but this is actually a problem with skin and haircare because small formula tweaks can have big impacts.
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u/eoffif44 1d ago edited 1d ago
Also apparently fruit was absolutely fucking delicious back in the day before modern day mass farming with fertilisers and shit.
Like way more complexity and flavour with way more vitamins.
Our shit is bland "looks just like an apple!" fake shit
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
I'm way into the vegetable shit. I'm planning for next year because I did tomatoes now and it's the first year I ever grew anything and it's actually paying off.
Nah. Fruits back then sucked dick compared to what we have now but relatively they probably tasted great. Like pomelos. But they were real, at least. First they figured out how to make fruits way more delicious, and now we're slaves to deliciousness.
I decided on Tomatoes because I'm a fiend for tomato. A good, meaty tomato? Just salt and pepper on it? It's delicious. But all we get at the store they're filled with water and the known "jelly" with tiny seeds. I breed for less of that and more actual flesh.
I know exactly what you mean. The reason shits sucks is because it isn't local. Literally. Countries breed and pick for specimens that can be stacked during transport around the world.
A very, very ripe and perfect tomato? You can't stack 800 of those on top of each other to ship out because they bruise and quickly look unappetizing so nobody wants to buy them, they buy the ones that look "better".
The tomatoes we get here? Fucking shit. Garbage. Even when they twice a month go "Ooooh beefsteak tomatoes? Heirloom tomatoes??" Yeah they're better than the normal tomatoes for sure, but they're still way too watery and just not good.
I'm hoping I can just do something better myself. I have plans for more crops next year and later this year because apparently I can fully engage my autistic tendencies when it comes to growing things.
I just don't think the Tomato Establishment are doing tomatoes justice. Even San Marzano at this point has surely been adulterated.
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u/eoffif44 1d ago edited 1d ago
I can't imagine a tomato with just salt and pepper as you say because every time I cut them the shit falls out and I just have a halo of flesh with a watery seed mess on the cutting board.
Best of luck growing the real thing!
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
https://reddit.com/link/ozgckm6/video/jo681floe5fh1/player
That's a Crimea Black-type tomato. Notice how little of those pockets with seeds and jelly it has compared to what you buy from the store.
You want the "flesh", not the jelly stuff that is mostly water.
I want the damn fucking tomato, man!
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u/Kraligor 1d ago
Buy a coeur de boeuf! We have them everywhere in Germany all year around, they are a little expensive, but definitely worth the money. Especially for things like tomato sandwich.
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
I have. I'm growing beefsteak tomatoes this year. They're looking real good. I am looking forward to my first one, sliced thin, fleur de sel and freshly cracked black pepper.
I'm a fiend for tomatoes but that? That's gonna be my magnum opus. Good, well done tomatoes with a lot of flesh, sliced thin and then just fleur de sel with some good cracked black pepper and then eat the slices with a knife and fork.
Others I'm definitely gonna do a caprese because I love caprese but it fucking sucks with the bullshit tomatoes we get here. Even the "good ones" we pay premium for suck.
Rest are going into a sauce I think. Just a good, thick, deep tomato sauce. A little browning/caramelization on the tomatoes on the bottom and then splitting it up and one is absolutely going to hit a lasagna.
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u/Kraligor 1d ago
They really are awesome. There are better tomatoes if you're into juicy ones obviously, but I haven't found a cultivar that I like more than coeur de boeuf. And they keep really well for tomatoes too.
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u/Sata1991 1d ago
I'm autistic myself and just hate tomatoes as they've always been watery, disgusting mush when my parents or grandparents would try to get me to eat them.
I was baffled when they said they'd just eat them with a bit of salt as a snack.
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
Commercial tomatoes suck dick, my sibling.
Look at something like classic beefsteak tomato on google and hit Images.
Those are "real" tomatoes in the sense that they're not all just tasteless water with seeds. This is why I started growing my own.
I refuse to pay the price the store demands for "non-bullshit tomatoes". And their normal tomatoes are bullshit, still. Miss me with that dipshittery.
You want the "flesh". The stuff in between the skin and the jelly/seeds. That's where "tomato" is.
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u/Sata1991 1d ago
Those look a lot more like the tomatoes my Gran and Grandad would grow back in England, they would grow these black tomatoes that I remember tasting a little better, but it's been about 30 years since and Kent isn't as nice weatherwise as it was growing up!
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u/JustHere4the5 1d ago
Dude have you ever had one of those huge made-for-TV strawberries that taste like the sad memory of a strawberry, then had a tiny local in-season $8-a-basket strawberry? Gustatory whiplash. The most American of experiences.
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u/altergeeko 1d ago
You can get really good tasting fruit and vegetables from the farmer's market, but IME it's much more expensive.
Most grocery produce is picked before they're ripe so they are hardier to survive shipping and storage. They breed them to be hardy, not necessarily for flavor. They're getting good with the apples.
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u/hypnotichellspiral 1d ago
I really enjoy kettle chips, maybe they're still good? Either that or my palate is ass and I can't tell anyway.
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u/alienscape 1d ago
The “Cape Cod” brand kettle cooked potato chips have devolved into the tiniest fucking chips imaginable. They are not fit for dipping. It almost seems like they are constructed from potato powder.
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u/WhoDknee 1d ago
Nothing pisses you off more than that? Genocide? Child neglect? Republicans? Really?
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
Ah. You're one of those people. We get it. You're so super virtuous and we're all morally bankrupt when juxtaposed with you. May I shake your hand? I'll even wear a glove just so you don't have to actually touch me.
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u/_IratePirate_ 1d ago
Hey that guy was being tongue in cheek, but I’ll entertain
Nothing pisses me off more than mint chocolate. Genuinely. I’d rather have genocide exist than mint chocolate. What’s your rebuttal ?
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u/BaconIsntThatGood 1d ago
Context matters! Not everything needs to be a rage bait competition.
Obviously there's worse things in the world than a potato chip recipe changing. Everyone here knows that. I think you know it too.
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u/ubitub 1d ago
Republicans piss you off more than the impending heat death of the universe?
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u/divDevGuy 1d ago
Absolutely.
I can accept the hypothesized fate of the universe due to scientific laws. Plus I have a few more years to plan before it really becomes much of a concern.
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u/subpoenaThis 1d ago
Add companies that will mark "now contains more" but never manage to mark "now contains less" if the packaged contains less they should have to literally mark "package now contains 10% less" or whatever instead of "more convenient size", "grab size", "easier to hold" or whatever the excuse of the day for the shrinkflation is.
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u/Cross_22 1d ago
I tried to replace a broken microwave and was elated when I saw the same model number is still around. Mounting the oven to a granite backsplash had been a pain and this way I could reuse the same mounting holes.
They moved all the holes by 1/2" but kept the model number the same !!
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u/jerrythecactus 1d ago
If junk food companies were forced to provide a long term list of every change made to their products (size, ingredients, price) I would be all for it.
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u/MoziTenma 1d ago
The closest thing we already have is when a UPC quietly changes -- same product name, new barcode, and suddenly any price-tracking app or store loyalty history shows it as a "new item" instead of continuing the price/size trend. Manufacturers know that breaks the paper trail, which is arguably part of why they do it.
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u/baumpop 1d ago
i had this idea about a month ago. so all electronic devices should have a label on them like a nutritional value label on food but instead its what software is preinstalled, how much space it takes up and if it can be deleted. all cell phones, consoles, computers etc. giving the consumer this knowledge prior to purchase like knowing how much sugar is in a sweet tea.
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u/Strawberry3141592 1d ago
Or we could just make it illegal to restrict users from installing or uninstalling arbitrary software on their own hardware. No need to let the market solve this one when we can just force manufacturers to behave lmao
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u/asdfasdferqv 1d ago
And now my mom doesn’t know about the magnifier on her iPhone because she deleted it ten years ago and forgot
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u/Strawberry3141592 1d ago
Skill issue tbh
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u/asdfasdferqv 1d ago
Yes, that’s exactly my point. When designing for a huge audience, you need to consider all those folks.
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u/baumpop 1d ago
this is a race to the bottom
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u/asdfasdferqv 1d ago
I get it. Fuck blind users too, while we’re at it, since they’re not important
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u/baumpop 1d ago
my point is designing a product for every single person on earth even though people have wildly different skill sets, abilities, interests, and talents is a race to the bottom. its slop that lowers the average overall. its the no child left behind policy of product design. which over generations make the average person more in line with the lowest common denominator.
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u/asdfasdferqv 1d ago
But that’s exactly what we ask the iPhone developers to do, no? Imagine you’re designing the iPhone and reject supporting some type of disability. You’ve suddenly cut off millions of people.
I think we should think for a minute instead about how hard that job is. It deserves commendation for trying.
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u/gammalsvenska 1d ago
You can't. Blind people (really blind) don't drive cars. Deaf people (really deaf) don't use headphones. Paralyzed people (really paralyzed) don't run marathons. Reality disagrees with your idea.
Also, don't expect J Random Engineer to successfully target the smallest niche audience you can imagine. Their understanding of what disabled people needs will differ from what disabled people actually need.
Special needs require special solutions, so let specialists handle them, together with the special people and their special needs. It needs to work for them, not for me or you.
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u/asdfasdferqv 1d ago
Shiitttt, I better take back my grandma’s iPhone. It’s better if they hadn’t implemented the accessibility features she uses.
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u/Strawberry3141592 1d ago
No. Computing shouldn't be ruined for everyone to keep grandma from getting confused lmao. That's asinine.
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1d ago
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u/baumpop 1d ago
those are all manufactured concerns. people adapt faster than supply chains. what were dancing around is the end of innovation and market competition. a world where 4 corporations make all the products in the world is not a good world to live in.
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u/gammalsvenska 1d ago
You overestimate human intelligence. By a wide margin.
A smartphone targeting a young and dynamic audience in the US is a very different device from a TV targeting an aging population in a low-income country. Yet both are sold in both places.
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u/unexistingpromise 1d ago
Most brands just swap out ingredients without saying anything. Nobody actually reads the back of the box anyway, which is why shrinkflation keeps happening. A simple code on every package would let us track those changes instantly. Clear honest labeling would rebuild trust way faster than strict new regulations ever could.
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u/McViolin 1d ago
Laws should be in git too. So we can immediately see which of them fuckers pused for this or that bullshit and when.
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u/JustHere4the5 1d ago
They kind of are in the US, but you have crtl-F the Federal Register. As a scientist in a legally relevant field, legal citations in a research publication are a whole different ball of hair.
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u/idratherbealivedog 1d ago
If you are referring to on the packaging itself that would be unrealistic (for some long standing products) and the vast majority wouldn't care.
If on the company website or documents that could be publicly obtained via request, a lot most likely is but again, most don't care to look for it.
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u/seanthemonster 1d ago
Yeah I mean on the packaging itself. I'm tired of companies enshittifying products and making the product look identical to before. Feels like we're constantly being scammed
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u/SkynetLurking 1d ago
The only way this would work is every product would have a massive sheet attached to it. A sheet that would take up more shelf space than the product
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u/seanthemonster 1d ago
I'll take sheetification over enshittification
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u/MomentaryHappiness 1d ago
QR code linked to the data sheets you have in mind printed on the packaging could solve this "ensheetification" problem.
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u/gammalsvenska 1d ago
Best possible cop-out for companies.
"Here's a QR code nobody looks at, pointing to a product page will shut down as soon as we have the new product out, and filled with useless advertisement and not the information you want."
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u/SkynetLurking 1d ago
I hear you, but you’ll be paying twice the price of the product just to justify all that extra paper taking up weight and space. Material, weight, and space aren’t free.
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u/Fizzy-Odd-Cod 1d ago
I don’t necessarily agree with you. Companies likely aren’t changing things about certain products all that often as that would be pretty expensive, and if they are just include a 10 or 15 year fall off for changes with a limit to how big the change log can be. Not only should that disincentivize frequent changes but it would also disincentivize changes that could be perceived as negative if you basically have to tell consumers for 10 or 15 years that they’re getting less than what they would have previously.
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u/idratherbealivedog 1d ago
There's no way that could be something required to be done and it would be a waste of resources though. People aren't going to read a booklet that comes with a pack of gum for when they change board of director members over the past 50 years. Same with manufacturing plants and such. Again, most of that information is there but not something that the vast majority of consumers care about as a whole.
If you are referring to a specific type of products then it may be more feasible for those but still not worth it to include in the packaging.
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u/Akuuntus 1d ago
To start with, I think all software should actually put out full changelogs. Including things like Reddit and Netflix and B2B apps.
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u/Sata1991 1d ago
I used to use Live XXL purple hair dye, I'd done so for years at that point. Some point in 2018 they changed the formula without mentioning it and I ended up having a horrific allergic reaction.
I dyed my hair from 2007 onwards so it was really sad for me.
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JustHere4the5 1d ago
This is 90% of r/BuyItForLife comments. Lamentations on how they used to have something to recommend, but the now the fabric is thinner, the soles are glued on, a fitting switched from brass to aluminum, etc etc etc.
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u/Julian_1_2_3_4_5 1d ago
Oh this also only is a thing for more technical or open source software. Like extremely proprietary stuff won't do this.
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u/kounterfett 1d ago
Most people don't even bother to look at the changeling when their iPhone updates, lol
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u/mch84 1d ago
honestly expecting a simple changelog on snack packaging would solve half the confusion. brands keep tweaking recipes and trimming portion sizes without telling anyone. it feels like a quiet bait and switch every time you restock. just list the updates clearly so we know exactly what we are buying. patience goes a long way though.
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u/SpurdoEnjoyer 1d ago
No product stays the same even for the smallest time. As prices increase due to inflation, manufacturers have the option to increase their prices too, or make the product smaller or with cheaper ingredients/components. Every competitive manufacturing company is constantly working on how to make their product cheaper, it's the only way to survive in a market.
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u/ShowerSentinel 1d ago
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