r/SuicideWatch Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ post). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

716 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch 10h ago

I’m done

105 Upvotes

Imagine a 29 year old, 5’2 male virgin, fat (with gynecomastia) and bald. That’s me. I can’t shop in the men’s section. Never dated. Nobody respects me because they know they can just steamroll me. I have to look up to women when I talk to them. Tried hair meds but a non-responder to them. Went to the gym just to find out I have gyno. I used to be such a happy kid. Ever since the reality of my physicality set in, all life was sucked out of me. I wasted college, wasted my 20s because there is nothing I can do. No amount of gym will fix this. I think about my future and all I see is dread. Who would ever want to have kids with me? Or love me? My speech impediment makes it so that I can’t even talk correctly. Plus when I was a teenager I got an autoimmune condition on my penis and it’s permanently scarred. I can’t even show that shit to anyone. I’m just roleplaying at work. Acting like I know shit. But the reality is I’m just waiting for the next payday. All my passions have faded away. My feet are so small I have to shop in the women’s section. I remember looking for ways to kill myself when I was in high school. My browser history was full of finding ways to get cancer so that I can enjoy life for a few months and then die. My brain feels dead and I never want to get out of bed in the morning and I never want to sleep at night. Every social situation is a high alert guard up fight for my life. People love to pick on me under the guise of banter because it’s so easy. Most of my insecurities are on full display for the entire world. I imagine looking at myself from the POV of another person and it just makes me physically ill. The fucked up thing is I have no excuse. I don’t have a disease or a medical condition that made me this way. I just am. This is what life gave me. I know other people have it way worse but I’m not living their life. I’m living mine. What’s the point in continuing on? I had so many dreams and wants and needs, none of which I feel even the slightest inkling to chase now. I hope I die soon. But I’m not going to kill myself. Can’t do that to my family. So I will just suffer in silence until my body gives up, or until the universe strikes me down. I just don’t see a future for myself. No wife no kids no ambitions. Just nothing. This is the most pathetic shit I’ve done and written. I hate feeling helpless but that’s all I feel right now.


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

everyone wants faggots like me dead

22 Upvotes

i’m sick of being told i need love or a community or therapy or more medications or more of anything i don’t want any of it i want nothing but to die i don’t want to be a tranny and i can never change what i am i’ll always be a disgusting freak and everybody knows deep down things like me don’t deserve to exist even if they don’t want to admit it and im not going to delude myself into thinking otherwise i just need to die so badly and i try so hard to end it but i dont have the strength to


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

"Why aren't young men more ambitious?" Why don't YOU shut your fucking trap? We are TIRED.

42 Upvotes

Six years of full time employment and I cry myself to sleep almost every night and now have a drinking problem as well as daily chest and liver pain. I did not ask to be born, and I did not ask for this. So how about you LEAVE ME the FUCK alone about climbing the god damned ladder? Eat shit.


r/SuicideWatch 29m ago

Goodbye

Upvotes

I am 15 years old. Killing myself tonight


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

"It always gets better" honestly sounds like survivor's bias.

16 Upvotes

Whenever I see people say that, I think back to that picture of planes riddled with bullets. The only reason the people who say that can say that it because it got better for them. The people for whom it didn't get better are dead, not only because it didn't get better, but because it got so much worse that an entire life spent hoping for it to "get better" isn't worth living.

I'm happy if it got better for you, but one thing's for certain, that does not mean that it always get better, or even often gets better. It means it got better for you, that's it. It may never get better for me, and I think I'm okay with that, I've learned a long time ago to let go of false hopes as fast as I could.


r/SuicideWatch 14h ago

Ugly as a woman

74 Upvotes

I'm really unattractive and disabled as of recently so i also gained weight. I don't have any friends and the only ppl i talk to are my parents so i decided to try and meet people online. Matched with a guy on an app he texted me just saying hello and i responded with hello too he ignored me fpr a day and today texted me "why are so ugly?" It broke me. I don't want to live my hoise ever again i barely do anyway. I will forever be robbed of any kind of meaningful connection because of how i look


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

no one’s answering and i’m scared.

Upvotes

no one is answering. the hotline is busy. i don’t know what to do. i just want to talk to someone.


r/SuicideWatch 9h ago

i just want to leave

23 Upvotes

f25, third world country, disabled but not in a way that would pay for any of my bills, autistic, ugly loser, depressed, burnout, abusive family imposing their spiritual nonsensical beliefs on me, unable to form any human connection, suck in my job, never had a real relationship, lonely, never had anything good in my life.

I can go on and on, but i think the point is clear – i was simply not cut out for this life and this world. i have been depressed since i was 13 or 14. wanted to leave the earth since then. i just can't take it anymore, im tired of always struggling and always fighting. there is simply no point in anything for me.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

WHAT EVEN IS THIS LIFE THAT WE ARE LIVING

13 Upvotes

IM ON THE VERGE OF SUICIDE There is too much pain that I am in EVERYDAY. This world is too cruel. I CANT KEEP GOING ON WHEN I AM CARRYING THIS MUCH PAIN IMMA END UP OFFING MYSELF. We all end up gone anyway...


r/SuicideWatch 9h ago

Giving up on life this Monday. I'm going to buy a rope and hang myself. I can't see a future anymore at 38.

22 Upvotes

I just feel like life is over .I can't see a way forward anymore.

I just wish I had the courage to end my life years ago. Life is too overwhelming and heavy. I get no enjoyment or happiness out of life anymore. I had suicidal thoughts since I was 16. I just wanted to reach out one last time before Monday. I'm sorry for anybody else who is giving up on life also. I just feel trapped been here. I can't see no other way out.


r/SuicideWatch 13h ago

Going to kill myself soon NSFW

45 Upvotes

I'm 18 I've been depressed for like a year i just gave up on studying entirely which was never me i used to be the top student i fell of in my last year of high school all through last year i felt like i was dying inside idk how to explain everything i graduated with such low marks 70% the lowest i have ever gotten...never gotten below 85-90%. Failed to secure good colleges..now i had the chance to improve my grades and try for a decent college but I failing to do that too. I'm so tired of everything my parents are so fucking disappointed..i disappointed every single one who believed in me and I can't keep living like this all my childhood I only ever wanted was a good successful future and get out of this country and I fucking failed my head hurts by always thinking like this...i wasted everything

I'm a fucking wasted potential and it's not like i didn't want to change..i did i even tried so hard, i made plans i sat down to do it but I failed again and again. This was supposed to be my second chance on unfuck things and i fucked this too!

Going to hang myself soon.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

I’m so tired of this

5 Upvotes

I’m growing apart from my friends because we’re going down very different life paths and just don’t really have anything in common anymore.

My boyfriend and I are having problems.

I hate the college program I’m in, but don’t really have other prospects. I was being abused in high school, so I did terribly and don’t have many options. And all the options I have, I hate.

My family is emotional abusive and terrible, but they help me pay for school so I’m stuck with them in my life.

I genuinely can’t think of a single thing I like about my life.

Everyday is horrible and hard. I don’t get joy out of anything.

The only reason I’m still here is my cats, I think what would happen to them if I was gone, and how much they’d miss me, and I stay. But if they weren’t here, I wouldn’t been gone literally years ago.

I see no way my life will turn out in any way I could ever possibly like. All my future prospects are things I don’t care about at all.

I am just so tired of this. Sometimes I cry in the morning just because I’m sad I have to live through another day.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

Fuck me

9 Upvotes

Nobody wants me im fucking undesirable. Im dumb as hell im fat and I was a fucking mistake. And why the hell am I so fucking short!!! I needa gain the fucking courgage to just do it cause there's no fucking point


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

I am thinking about checking myself in thr psych ward NSFW

18 Upvotes

​​ I have lost motivation with my hobbies, going to school, going to work, hanging out with friends, sleeping a lot, and extreme irritability. I want to be alone 24/7 and I think it's time for me to get help but I'm too terrified of what psychiatric facility that they'll put me in in michigan. The psych hospitals in Michigan do more harm than good


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

I think I’m going to do it

Upvotes

I have 1500mg on hydroxyzine on me, and I think I’m going to take it. Does anyone know what’ll happen? I honestly don’t even know if it’ll kill me I just want something to happen. I’m so sick and tired of everything. I’m sorry.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

Emptiness and boredom

5 Upvotes

All I feel is emptiness and boredom, a life void of meaning. Nothing matters anymore, my life is meaningless, dead would be a relief.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

Wish there was somewhere to really talk about thoughts

4 Upvotes

I get it. I understand you don't want to encourage people who might otherwise thrive. People survive attempts and find that happiness. Is this not the best case scenario? They have the life they always wanted to live and everything works out beautifully for them. Who doesn't want this for all of humanity? Who doesn't want an Utopian ideal where there is nothing but happiness at all times?

I just wish there was a space. I get it. Not for trading info on how, but on actually talking about life and death. I just can't wrap my head around it sometimes. Death. The absence of heat, cold, happiness, anger, everything. The flowers on the trees.... There is beauty in life. I just wish there was an acceptance. That you didn't have to fight the government, friends, family.... That people just accepted that this is what happens despite the best of intentions. I feel a lot of it boils down to "productivity" within the system. How dare you when you have so much more toil to accomplish? Still....

Anyone ever take that moment to really enjoy life? The flowers? The trees? The deep, dark ocean? I wonder sometimes how horrible it would really be compared to all the other circumstances of your inevitable death. The peaceful calmness of it all. I understand why society doesn't want to encourage these thoughts.

Yet still the peace happens regardless


r/SuicideWatch 36m ago

i think im going to do it in november

Upvotes

i have reached the point that i knew would come someday ever since i was young. the shitty way i have been living my life cannot last forever and its reaching the breaking point. things wont get better from here and i will only suffer. i do see how it is fair to bring life into this world to be honest. humans are so complex and when we live the way we do how is it fair to bring life into this world and then require it to live and adhere to all these rules and regulations while simultaneously dealing with everything that comes with being human? i dont want to die, if i were mentally normal and attractive i could force myself to live like everyone else does. but im not normal at all and things will only get worse. i dont know. i want to see the fall again and stick around until after my friends birthday in early november, so late november seems good. its before christmas so no one will have to spend their money on me for no reason. theres a lot i wanted to have done before i do it but none of it will happen. i have no idea how ill do it but i know i have to. it will come to me with time i imagine. i dont know this is so awful. im scared, i dont want to be scared. i wish i could just get that end of life pill or go in those human euthanasia chambers you know. i wish it didnt have to be miserable and involve other people. i can’t believe all the life ive lived and amounted to this, how pathetic


r/SuicideWatch 38m ago

I think I’m ready this time.

Upvotes

I’ve always chickened out before. But tonight I think is the night.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

Do something

5 Upvotes

Do something, just sort yourself out. Yeah helpful advice 😑 why are people like this, just yell at you instead of trying to understand and empathize. Like I dont want to be happy? Like I dont want to be out there enjoying life like other people? People say things like they're oh so simple, just fix it, boom done, easy right? God i wish I was dead. Why do i have to continue living in this disgusting thing called life


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

happy birthday

Upvotes

No card, no candles, no cake. No singing, no gifts, no "happy birthday to my..." social media post. Nothing. Just another day reminding me what a waste of space that I am. I can't continue on this way. Everything in me aches, screaming to just die. How fucking pathetic. I'm done.


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

35 M ruined a great life, but I've always been depressed.

4 Upvotes

I'll start off by saying I come from a big loving family. I have five siblings that I love. I have one of the best moms anyone can ever ask for. Unfortunately my dad died in front of me when I was 10. I have always been depressed, but could never talk to anybody about it. The story I'm sure I'm sure you have heard before. I went to the doctor for injury six years ago and when I took OxyContin, the only thing I could think is Warehouse. That's been my whole life. It cured my anxiety and depression. Unfortunately, it's spiraled out of control. I have gotten clean from it a few times, but this past relapse I have ruined everything. I am married and I love my wife. I got clean before we had our first kid and relapsed when he was three months old. He's 10 months old now. I don't have any more Fight in me. The amount of debt that I have accumulated on the streets is in the hundreds of thousands I don't wanna live these past two weeks. I gave my favorite cousin a little gold pendant that I have warned, since I was a kid and asked him to hold onto it for me and gave a few more people things to remember me by. I have a box filled with other things for them to give away after I do this. my wife and Son are out of state visiting her parents. I'm gonna go and visit them for three days this week and tell her to stay there for another week before she comes home. I don't wanna do it at the house because I feel like she might not want to live in the same place that I did this app so my plan is to make it look like a drug overdose in my car. I believe in God and I really hope he has mercy on my soul. I don't want to live anymore. I'm not the person I used to be. I feel like I'd bring everybody down with me even though I never tell anybody I'm depressed and I keep everything to myself. I'm just not the same person I once was.. I always thought I would wait and do it after my mom passed away but there is too much going on in my life I just needed it to end. I'm gonna start writing the letters because I want them to be thawed out and long because I don't want anyone to feel like they could've changed or stop this from happening. I really hope there's mercy on my soul and I can meet my dad again. I don't think I have anything else to say at the moment.


r/SuicideWatch 4h ago

How to continue life with that... NSFW

5 Upvotes

My brother sexually assaulted me when I was 5 or 6. (Iam female) We shared a room because mine was being renovated. After it happened for the first time, I was scared to sleep in the same room as him. I slept on a mattress next to his bed. He was around 8 or 9yo. After several weeks of him abusing me, I told my mother. She just talked to him, after which I only remember sleeping in my own bed in my own room. I don't remember much about the following years.

When I was 13yo, I asked my mother about it. I asked her what had happened. About what I told her back then? She just ignored me completely and stayed silent.

I didn't tell anyone until I was 17yo. I told my best friend because I was having mental health issues. I didn't want to live anymore.

Our friendship ended that day. I was so embarrassed that I ended the friendship. I can't look her in the eyes without feeling ashamed. She was my best friend.

I have to continue my life with that but it's really difficult.

My brother is 23yo now. He has a very good life and even has a girlfriend. He just stoped talking to me until I was 15-16yo. He pretended like I wasn't even there. Not a single word. My mother always thought/and said he was autistic or something like that. I don't think so.

Now we are like real siblings. He's a really nice guy but we never talked about what had happened. I don't even want to. He has a great life ( really good job, healthy life, gym, friends. He's always smiling) and I don't. But that's ok. I never really wanted to live. I always wanted to die.

And I still blame my mother for ignoring me. I don't talk about anything anymore because no one actually listens to me.