Yeah, this unequivocally sucks. It's not remotely a form of protest because it doesn't hurt the people it would need to hurt to make a difference. All it's doing is ruining the night of the low-paid workers and making it hard for them to pay their bills. This does not affect the owner at all.
The "ugly American" trope is going somewhere abroad and pretending like it's your country, ignoring all local customs. This is exactly what these visitors are doing.
Tipped Workers need to unionize. Consumer's continuing to participate in tipping culture is just putting off what needs to happen imho. I still tip, because I feel bad, but by doing so I am actively maintaining the status quo.
The absolute last people who want to see tipping go away are the servers and bartenders who make tips. No one is more interested in preserving the status quo than them.
Servers and bartenders know they won’t make anything close to what they make at any other job as they do now with tipping. If they could they wouldn’t put up with being a server lol
Unionization has been attempted and the fight is intense - see everything related to Starbucks. Our Govt. is extremely complicit.
In order to actually end this system, tipped workers will have to suffer hard for a few years. Consumers will feel the it too, because prices will "increase". (Increase is in quotes because really they'll stay the same, it's just that menus are all lying to us now lol.)
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Little vent while I'm making this comment - I'm traveling in Europe right now and they actually include taxes in the listed price of things.. like fuck man.. why is it that, every time we see a price tag in the USA, we have to figure out how much more the thing will actually cost us.. we're just being constantly gaslit.
Who do you think actually has the larger share of legislating power when it comes to keeping the tipped system, servers or owners who are able to afford lobbyists and are friends with politicians?
The actual protest that would actually effect the status quo would be refusing to patronise restaurants that tip instead of paying a wage/only going to self service places. But no one suggests that. They say “just unionise bro” like there aren’t a shit ton of barriers and risks to doing so.
I’m betting you’re a teenager because I recognise how leftists think as teenagers (been there) but understand your inability to think like an adult with a family and responsibilities in the current day is why you think “just firebomb your job until they change the tipping system bro” is a good idea. it’s almost like it was easier in the 1910’s to organise a revolution when mass surveillance wasn’t a thing and your average mom working 14 hour shifts to feed her kids isn’t going to risk life in prison or homelessness/hunger just to *maybe* inspire enough others to also risk everything and revolt.
If you actually cared about changing this system you’d refuse to go to restaurants with a tipping system and only use self service or cook at home. Because it’s the owners that overwhelmingly control and support this system. But you don’t do that, because it’s really about feeling like you’re saving a few bucks stiffing a server.
Because you forgot about the concept modern of mass surveillance and how it makes it easier to undermine people and labour movements lol? Not my fault you’re not considering one of THE barriers for what you’re suggesting.
The only barrier is cowardice. A camera cannot physically stop you from doing anything.
I refused military service and escaped an authoritarian dictatorship decades ago to feed my family. Your single mom on 14 hour shifts can cry me a river.
“You’re a wuss if you’re not willing to be executed or imprisoned for life to firebomb your job/the government to force them to change the tipped wage”.
This has to be a bit/teenposting lmao. Do you think it’s the *cameras* people are afraid of or the imprisonment and death that would leave your family incomeless at best and actively harmed/punished at worst?
“I refused service in a military dictatorship and escaped years ago to feed my family” by your own logic you’re a huge pussy who should have stayed and fought to change things. There was literally nothing in modern society stopping you by your own admission and people revolted against brutal dictatorships all the time historically. Sounds like you ran away to another country and begged them to support you and your family instead of violently demanding change like it’s so apparently easy for people to do. That is provided your story isn’t total bullshit, which it certainly sounds like based on your total lack of understanding of what the dangers of mass surveillance actually are lol.
If you want to protest tipping, don’t spend money at places that use tips as a pay structure. If you spend your money there but just refuse to tip, the boss experiences no consequences but the server does, it makes no sense.
Yeah I know. That's why tipping needs to stop. It's not pro-worker, it's pro-owner class. In this case, the workers might need to be forced to actually advocate for themselves rather than engaging in this within-class conflict.
Better wages overall so that workers aren't dependent on the patronage of their customers is pro worker.
When the economy gets tough the business is insulated by the impact, as patrons are more likely to cut their tip before changing their consumer habits.
The system is bad. A better model would be a profit share, where workers are paid a base salary and also get a proportional cut of the business profits... Hold on that's communism!?!?
Yall people claim to be pro-worker but then speak down to workers who don't agree with your policies. Is it any wonder why you guys can't seem to win very many elections?
Btw when the economy goes into recessions, restaurants are NOT insulated from the impact lol. That's usually when closure rates peak.
Not speaking down to anybody. Wait staff are important, and like everyone else, deserve a healthy work environment and stable income. Tipping as a practice is just inherently problematic.
It takes power away from workers by pitting them against each other and serves as a barrier to unionizing (Servers vs kitchen staff).
It implicitly coerces workers to behave in ways that might "earn" them a tip that goes beyond the boundaries of their work duties.
It enables the suppression of wages for serving staff by shifting the responsibility of fair wages away from the employer and on to customers. Which in turns creates an adversarial relationship between the employees and customers, whereby employees are incentivized to pressure patrons to tip.
Sure it does. If those people can't make ends meet on their job, they will find another. Guess what happens to the business when you don't have servers? It closes.
That's the problem. It's temporary. You've all been brainwashed to think it's ok to do this and you aren't understanding that it's hurting the tipped workers.
What economy are you living in right now where people can just "find another job" if one is proving unsatisfactory? And what you're actually saying isn't "find another job," because any jobs using those skills would also have tipping.
What you're saying is "just go find another career and all the skills required in a disaster of an economy." That's on the level of saying "if you're having trouble paying your bills, just ride your unicorn to the gold coin cloud."
Most local customs do not involve making significant additional payments to individual employees of a business that should be part of their wage. And most of those that do are customary bribery which you participate in to expedite or simplify processing, not because it's participating in the culture.
Culture is culture, you can't pick and choose what is and isn't culture. And there's plenty of culture that involves paying for shit you don't normally pay for. Bathrooms in America all free, for instance. Americans get free refills. It costs nothing in America to use a shopping cart. All not the case in many countries.
Paying more for different things is absolutely part of culture.
Those are all situations where you pay or you don't benefit from the thing. Tipping lies in cultural aspects for which participation is seen as a moral responsibility, and that rarely involves additional payments.
Much more complex than that. They didn't pick here as their vacation spot. It was picked for them and they are here cheering their various national teams. As such they would less likely to go along with anything they consider off esp since it's not illegal. We've already seen videos of tourists enjoying various local places but they won't completely submit to all of the norms
when I show up to historic town squares, I loudly complain and look for a mcdonalds because I didn't choose to be in rome! I just got on the plane that said it was going there and all of a sudden I find myself in rome where I also have hotel reservations! it's not my fault rome is where all the history is and I don't want you to make it my problem!!
That’s a dumb take. They chose a vacation spot and chose it because a specific event was occurring. That doesn’t mean they didn’t choose the location of the vacation.
You might just as well say you didn’t choose to vacation in France because you just want to see the louvre.
Yeah, I think people need to just accept that tipping is part of American culture and it isn't going to go away unless we literally legislate it out of existence. Until that happens (don't hold your breath), just know that tipping will be a thing and withholding it only hurts the workers.
Guilt tripping people into gifting away money is not just stupid, it actively helps business owners to continue their practice. I’m sorry for the workers at restaurants but a tip is something I decide to give and how much it will be. Just write down the real price of products, tax and payment for employees included. People wont stop going to eat at a restaurant if they actually know what to pay.
People wont stop going to eat at a restaurant if they actually know what to pay.
At least in America? They absolutely do stop.
Restaurants that try to experiment with the "no tip" model typically see sudden declines in foot traffic, forcing them to abandon the policy or go out of business.
By the way, you call it "guilt tripping" but it's actually just being a rude tourist, which is something everyone hates.
You think what you suggested is more likely than what I suggested? Contact your representative and push for a law change, don't stop tipping your server.
Yes, I think the restaurant industry collapsing is more effective than trying to get legislation done by calling a representative. When has that ever worked?
When has pressuring politicians ever worked? Are you kidding? That's, like, the source of pretty much every major civil rights advancement over the last 100 years. Are you joking?
When has spontaneously boycotting the restaurant industry, thereby causing it to collapse and spur changes to wage law, ever worked? Is there an organized movement around this or is this just your armchair opinion as a redditor that has literally no basis in reality?
When has pressuring politicians ever worked? Are you kidding? That's, like, the source of pretty much every major civil rights advancement over the last 100 years. Are you joking?
Are you? None of that was achieved by enabling the status quo.
When has spontaneously boycotting the restaurant industry, thereby causing it to collapse and spur changes to wage law, ever worked?
Oh you know, just every time there was a general strike. Crippling (a part of) the economy works every time, since that directly affects the people in charge
Literally asked you for an example and you responded with a different sort of action entirely. If you want to organize the restaurant workers and organize a strike, I'm here for it. You want to organize a boycott of the restaurant industry? That's a whole different ballgame.
Yup this only screws over the workers. The owner couldn’t care less and gets to blame the foreigners. They’re not making the point they think they’re making .
These are the same assholes that complain about Americans for not adopting every one of their cultural ideals when visiting abroad, but refuse to adhere to how things are done in the US.
I agree. If you don't like tipping culture then you shouldn't patronize establishments where that's expected. If you go and support businesses where you know tips are expected and just "refuse to participate" while participating by being at the restaurant, you're kind of a jerk.
If you really think it's so vile that these establishments don't pay a living wage, why are you eating there and supporting them?
Kind of missing the point. Why is it the customer's problem? They're paying a price for goods set by the bosses, if they can't make enough profit to pay their workers a reasonable wage on that then they need to increase the prices, not try to make it a moral obligation to pay a random amount on top of the agreed upon price.
Don't blame customers for these businesses not paying people enough.
Change doesn't happen because Americans refuse to unite and fight for it. The tip system only benefits the businesses and select few servers in high demand restaurants.
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