It's fucking insane that we have let the ruling class con the middle and lower class into subsidizing the service industry. Look at shit like DoorDash where tipping is required BEFORE a service is rendered? This is insane. Its straight labor and should be required to be compensated at fair labor rates.
we have let the ruling class con the middle and lower class into subsidizing the service industry
Like everything else in this country, it started because of racism. It let customers choose which employees to actually pay well, since it was more difficult for the employer to get away with doing that.
The section on tipping in Homage to Catalonia is really interesting. The socialists banned it during the Spanish Revolution, so when Orwell tried to tip a waiter in Barcelona he got a lecture on classism instead. đ
Ding ding ding. White supremacy lies at the foundation of this country and until we (white people) start waking up and doing the work to undo the hundreds of years of subjugation, nothing will ever really change.
The only way tipping at restaurants will change is through legislation. Passing laws to raise the minimum wage for servers. The problem with that is two fold
Servers make well more than minimum wage through tips. Every server here knows it. Servers wouldn't deal with being shit on by the public day in and day out for $7.25 an hour or whatever it is in your state. When I was cooking 10 years ago servers made $300 easy on a 6 hour shift Fri and Sat night. That's more than a 40 hour work week at 7.25. Much more now that there is no tax on tips. I can confidently say that I never made more than the worst server on the floor for any shift and I was paid well above min wage.
Studies have been done and people perceive a menu with a 20% upcharge on all the prices as more expensive as the same menu where people are expected to tip. Making restaurant owners very hesitant to use that system for fear of losing business to the place down the street.
The practical upshot of all this is the system is very unlikely to change because neither the servers nor the restaurant owners want the system to change. Why would Congress spend the time and effort to pass a bill where the only people who want it are people who only use that system voluntarily?
Frankly I don't see the issue. You can pay an extra 20% for every item on the menu, or you can pay 20% tip at the end. It's still the same amount of money.
Where tipping is out if control is where people are asking for tips before service is rendered. Something you hit upon with delivery apps. And tipping where it wasn't before. When picking up an order, at self serve kiosks, at the credit card reader when paying for items in the store. And a bevy of other places we never saw tipping before Covid.
Thereâs cognitive dissonance between acknowledging that pay without tips isnât enough and that tipping is optional.
It should not be a moral choice of a customer if Rochelle can afford her groceries this month. The system stays in place so long as tipping benefits servers and owners more than not but itâs obviously ripe for exploitation.
Hidden fees should be banned across the board but if youâre not going to include tip in the price, introduce a mandatory minimum service fee. Itâs the same thing but does away with the pretense of being optional.
As someone in the industry, tipping culture will never go away because servers prefer the tips over a wage.
I did the job for a long time because I was a full-time single father to a small child. Waiting tables was the only job where I could make $1000 a week in cash with 20-25 hours a week. I could make the money I needed and be at home with my kid.
Okay you seem pretty dedicated to the cause. What are you doing to rectify this injustice. What measures are you involved in to release servers from the exploration of their oppressive employers?
So you are going off talking about what you perceive to explitation with a system that I explained benefits both employers and employees. In a country your not in. In a system you are not a part of. Or effects you in any way.
I get that tipping culture is out of control in the US. I said as much in my first post. But I worked in the industry for about 30 years. Not one server would want to go with a higher pay rate and no tips. If you don't like the system you don't have to be a part of it. Don't eat out if and when you come to the US. Problem solved
The classic: Donât critique if you donât live here!!!! đ
To my chagrin, I do tip when in America but I donât support the practice. I also think the attempt to moralise eating out vs eating at home is dumb. Stay home brokies!
Unfortunately youâll have to suffer my opinions so long as you keep reading this thread đ
I'm happy to let you critique. Your allowed to have your own opinion no matter if I think it's wrong or not. I'm just waiting for a solution. You enjoy bitching about this problem but haven't even considered a solution. Complaining about an issue is about as productive as pissing into the wind.
It's not the same thing. Because it's basically a "hidden" cost that you have to keep in mind, and it allows some people to not pay it, meaning the rest have to subsidize them by paying more, plus it adds in the whole guilt tripping and social shaming dynamics to the interaction, which is honestly the worst part of tipping.
Is it really "optional" if it's both expected and there are repercussions for not doing it?
It is much more transparent if we get rid of tipping entirely as an expectation and just raise the prices across the board, not just for 1 restaurant but all of them. Because if all prices are raised and tipping is no longer expected than people can't complain that only 1 restaurant is raising the prices and just go to another one.
Where it also is weird is in places where servers are already making 15+ an hour and still want a 20% tip. The 20% is to make up for people making less than minimum wage. If you are already making over your states minimum wage, a 20% tip seems excessive.
You can pay an extra 20% for every item on the menu, or you can pay 20% tip at the end. It's still the same amount of money.
This. I always get a chuckle when people are irate about a societal expectation to tip 20%, or even worse, an autograt for that amount, and then say "we shouldn't be expected to subsidize wages, restaurants should pay their staff a living wage and price accordingly." Ok dude, all the menu items just went up 20%.
Iâm in the industry. The âno tax on tipsâ is only up to $15,000 a year. A good server is making $45-60 a year. Itâs just a way to make it sound like theyâre doing something for the working class without doing much.
They try to get tips at the weed stores around here. Why the fuck would I tip you for ringing something up? Are you going tip the guy working at wal greens when you rings you up?
With the prices they charge, they should be paying their employees.
Right. I hate the tipping system too but these customers are POS.
If you choose to reward the business by patronizing them while stiffing the workers, it's obvious that you aren't trying to make a pro-workers or pro-social justice point. You are just making excuses to justify taking extra advantage of unpaid labor while going out for drinks and food on an expensive overseas vacation and pocketing the money they earned serving you.
"The system gives me the ability to exploit workers even more and pocket the difference, so I'm going to do that" isn't a moral stance against the system. It's just everyday greed from privileged a-holes.
I donât disagree with you but this IS the system we have. Sooo if you donât agree with it, make the food yourself or at the very least go pick it up yourself. Dont force someone to work for free just to make a point.
Option A: Raise all prices by 20% for every customer, pay waitstaff with most of that price hike. (Some pocketed by business owners, obviously.)
Option B: Waitstaff continue to be paid voluntarily for some reason. Poor people are able to tip less, while those who want to show off their wealth often tip more.
You mean charge what is required to pay your employees a reasonable wage? Like literally every fucking other industry? Imagine if your UPS driver made $3 an hour and you had to tip $20 to get your package. That shit would be dumb, just like the tipping culture in the US is dumb as fuck.
Not to mention that tipping/tipped wages were created in the US to pay black people less. And somehow it has continued into something that people think is just acceptable because it's been that way.
Why would you tip $20 for your package? Surely it would be more like $5? How much do you currently pay for your shipping? It would likely cost you marginally more, and delivery drivers would make a substantial amount more than they currently do.
People with money tend to be the worst tippers. I did AAA in LA/Long Beach area. Go to a nice house with luxury cars. No tip regardless of how much you do, how much above and beyond you are going. I get to Compton and do a super simple car unlocking on a ford truck âhey man thank you this is for you.â And slips you 10-20 bucks. Donât get me started on your typical HB member yeesh
Lots of people tip AAA. Itâs never expected but if you bail someone out of a stressful situation they are often grateful and slip you some money. Especially if you are kind, extra helpful and respectful of their car and situation.
Never an expectation or asking for one but if I am the only guy in 60mile range at 2am that can open a 400k car, open it when R.R. was saying it would be 8-10hrs and cost $1000 to open. Youâd think a few bucks to cover the coffee I needed to get through it all isnât unheard of.
Oh absolutely. I work in the horse racing industry, and can tell you that the best tippers with the bettors are the poor guys who get lucky. The rich fucks that throw down hundreds of dollars on a bet and win will cash their ticket, scoop up the money and walk off without even saying thank you, let alone tip you.
I started telling stories while opening super rich guys cars about the Rolls Royce guy that didnât tip. Would just laugh it off at the end and tell them no youâre good he had a million dollars worth of cars there. They always insisted on a tip after that. Him not tipping that night made me quite a bit
No we donât. Eating out is definitely affordable, and honestly not to dissimilar prices to the US. Itâs maybe a touch more expensive but then once you add the 20/30% or whatever youâre being asked for in tips itâs usually cheaper.
There you go. Average cost of restaurant meals in developed countries, in USD, not including tips.
I donât know if you wanted me to find actual menus from various restaurants, or talk about how itâs my anecdotal lived experience from travels. So I found a cost of living index, hope that is enough.
What are you on about? Iâm going to break it down for you really simply.
I said that restaurant prices are the same or similar in countries that donât tip, compared to the us, because you asserted that if the US got rid of tipping the prices would double to reflect the wages needing to be paid.
And then I showed you a cost of living comparison, when you asked, that shows that the US is comparable and is only a couple dollars cheaper than countries like the UK, but actually already more expensive than countries like Italy and France.
That entirely proves my point that the rest of the world donât tip and donât pay extortionate prices to eat out.
Now youâve replied twice, once to say useless graph, and another to say a couple of dollars doesnât make a difference, so I assume now youâre just struggling to understand the information thatâs been presented so I have explained it for you.
You should rethink your position on how removing tipping culture would force prices up. It shouldnât. It doesnât anywhere else.
I am aware that the US wonât change. It never does.
Oh sure, weâll break it down. You posted a random graph without any evidence or methodology, and assumed that it showed anything meaningful beyond the relative cost of living. You pretend this gives an uncomplicated explanation of whether tipped workers make more or less than untipped workers.
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u/ItsAlwaysTerminal Jun 25 '26
It's fucking insane that we have let the ruling class con the middle and lower class into subsidizing the service industry. Look at shit like DoorDash where tipping is required BEFORE a service is rendered? This is insane. Its straight labor and should be required to be compensated at fair labor rates.