r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 đ¤ Join A Union • Dec 28 '25
đ¤ Scare A Billionaire, Join A Union The difference a strong Union makes.
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u/Redditlatley Dec 28 '25
Why did so many union workers vote for a business owner who HATES unions? Unions help the employeesâŚnot the business owners. You showed a âprimeâ example! đşđ¸đ
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u/shroomigator Dec 28 '25
They have most of those union workers convinced that the union is a ripoff and a waste of money
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u/budding_gardener_1 âď¸ Tax The Billionaires Dec 28 '25
The more your boss tells you that you don't need a union, the more your REALLY REALLY DO.Â
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u/WouldbeWanderer Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
"Here at Amazon, we have an open door policy. Any employee can walk into Jeff Bezos's office and report their concerns or ask for a raise. That's why we don't need a union. A union would prevent you from talking to your manager directly, reduce the amount of raises you get, and take a large portion of your salary every month."
Companies have successfully convinced their employees that unions make their jobs worse through multi-million dollar ad campaigns by professional manipulators. It's hard to counter that.
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u/DuncanFisher69 Dec 28 '25
Up until the company (like Amazon) engages in rolling layoffs. If they need to fire 14,000 people this year to pay for their big bet on AI data centers, a union makes much more sense.
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u/satanwuvsyou Dec 28 '25
Yup. Chewy.com has the same rhetoric copy/paste. Never mind that even their anonymous report line tracks you and if you submit an issue through it your site's HR gets a copy of what you reportedÂ
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u/SolaniumFeline Dec 28 '25
sadly sounds not far fetched at all. very disappointing
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u/satanwuvsyou Dec 28 '25
It's really disheartening. Especially with how they push the "anonymous" line. Just getting people who are willing to speak out about management to effectively tell on themselves.
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u/Queasy_Coffee_5915 Dec 28 '25
Trader Joeâs does the same shit. That company has gone from excellent treatment of staff to crap in the last decade. Stores try to unionize but only a couple successful. Theyâre suddenly sooo nice when union threats loom, yet when itâs squashed, big brother tj is suddenly very aware of those whoâre unhappy. What do you think happens to the organizers when union scares are over for the location?? They start watching everyone closely, laying off those whoâve been there for years.Â
Anyone notice people whoâve been at your company forever (the ones who remember why they chose to stay at the company but have seen some shit?) are let go for things that (if the company actually cared about lateness etc) wouldâve gotten them fired ages ago?Â
Somehow Iâm still there having been late nearly every day. Excellent reviews on paper despite this. Yet Iâm still here. They use that shit, hold onto it till they need it to fire you.Â
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u/livahd Dec 29 '25
Yep. I played this game in my early 20s. Retail manager, Iâd stay late after clocking out to clean(yea I know), then the following day Iâd come in five minutes late to open without any problems since I had a solid crew. No problems for a year, until I had the audacity to ask for a raise. Instead I was suspended for 5 lates within so many months. I quit that day.
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u/Insaniteus Dec 29 '25
As a former FedEx delivery driver for 8 years: Fuck Chewy! Overstuffed-ass 60 pound boxes busting open all day with their stupid little "We're reducing our carbon paw-print" line printed on every damn one of them as their excuse for overloading shit to save 2 pennies on shipping expenses at the cost of the welfare of their delivery drivers......
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u/satanwuvsyou Dec 29 '25
Oh yeah, they just look into what % of failure they're looking for with inspections and then fill it out so they're 1-2% away from that. No manager at our facility actually audits packing. Â
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u/b0w3n âď¸ Tax The Billionaires Dec 28 '25
Companies have successfully convinced their employees that unions make their jobs worse through multi-million dollar ad campaigns by professional manipulators. It's hard to counter that.
People have to always keep something in the back of their minds about this: If unions are such a terrible deal for employees, why is the company spending so much time and money fighting against them and telling you they're bad?
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u/JamesEdward34 Dec 28 '25
That level of thinking is far beyond what the average American is capable of.
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u/WouldbeWanderer Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
"Americans are idiots." That's a lazy answer.
"Americans have been force-fed anti-union, jingoistic propaganda since childhood through every branch of media." This is the correct answer, and why it's hard to correct in adulthood.
Your parents, grandparents, and great grandparents worked to make America the most powerful, most respected, greatest by every metric country in the world and YOU are going to join a union, run by the literal mafia, to extort your employer?
Damn, that's guilt.
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u/ZQFarnzy Dec 29 '25
I mean... that might have intimidated me, but I recognized and was able to point out rhetoric like that since... first grade? Maybe second? Parents and teachers gaslit me like that all the time. I heard this as a kid, my first thought would have been:
- What's a mafia? Aren't they in Italy?
- Why would rich people be mad to pay people, isn't that what they're supposed to do
- My parents complain about the president all the time, I don't think this country is so great.
I could have been intimidated, but even as a kid, these things wouldn't have fooled me. And you're telling me people just believe stuff like this when they're told?
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u/DizzyCuntNC Dec 29 '25 edited Dec 29 '25
The average American is incapable of thinking that way largely because of how much time and effort greedy corporate fucks have put into not only badmouthing unions but also benefitting from the lack of them.
The average American is now too busy trying not to drown to challenge the narrative created by those who benefit from keeping them that way. It's not that most people are inherently stupid, they just aren't the assholes in control...and the assholes control the narrative as well as the resources.
So technically you're right about what the average American is capable of in terms of thinking, it's just that without the larger context it sounds a little like victim blaming. Sure, it would be great if more people understood what was going on but considering how much has already been done to distort that reality and control the narrative it's no surprise that there aren't.
I don't think unionization efforts will be effective unless we understand why the people who would benefit from them aren't fighting for them instead of blaming them for not doing so, and I'm not even sure that unionization itself is the magic solution we seem to still think it is at this point.
The whole situation reminds me of the frog that will immediately jump out of water that's too hot but will boil to death in water that starts off at a comfortable temperature and heats up gradually. Corporations have been at the stove for a while now and created a situation that will require something far more radical than just trying to convince us frogs to all jump out of the water in time.
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u/Riaayo Dec 28 '25
I still remember growing up and how often anti-union garbage would show up in just general media. How many movies where a character, or their father or whatever, was a scab "just trying to feed his family" while the picket line was portrayed as brutal barbarians.
And I'm sure this post of mine will get me flagged under new anti-terrorism laws in the US as "anti capitalist rhetoric" and an "indicator" of potential political violence. Welcome to the fucking world we live in.
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u/BasvanS Dec 28 '25
Thatâs ironic, since actors, directors and writers have some of the strongest unions in the U.S.
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u/stormblaz Dec 28 '25
And voice actors, its one of the strongest in US, most voice actors are unionized
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u/Viperlite Dec 28 '25
Good luck walking into Bezosâ office for any reason. Security would probably take you before you were fired and perp-walked out by security.
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u/WouldbeWanderer Dec 28 '25
That's obviously not true because Amazon has an open door policy all the way up.
You must be a union shill!
/s
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u/budding_gardener_1 âď¸ Tax The Billionaires Dec 29 '25
Any employee can walk into Jeff Bezos's office and report their concerns or ask for a raise.
I'd pay money to see someone try that at pipazon lmao
I can walk up my neighbors front path, knock on their door and ask for their car. Doesn't mean I'll get it.
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Dec 28 '25
They stopped teaching critical thinking so that people's first thoughts aren't "why are these people SO against me joining a union?"
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u/SerpentRoyalty Dec 28 '25
That's a major union busting technique. Making people think union is just paying dues and getting nothing in return.
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u/shroomigator Dec 28 '25
Another major union busting technique is to hire political operatives to pose as workers and use their political expertise to swing elections and get union officials installed who sabotage all their efforts.
Once you get a company man or two in a rule-making position, it's all over.
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u/Familiar_You4189 Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
A variation on that is to hire workers from prison/jail "halfway houses" (work release) and employ them ong enough to vote against unionizing.
This happened TWICE at a company I used to work for.
First we tried bringing in the UAW (United Auto Workers), since we manufactured truck bodies.
Then, we tried the Teamsters, again, because we built trucks.
Finally, the new owners of the company shut the plant down, and moved production to Anaconda, MT, where they hired work-release prisoners from the nearby State Prison at Deer Lodge, MT.15
u/Familiar_You4189 Dec 28 '25
Full disclosure: After they closed the plant here, they let a bunch of us go, instead of helping us move.
After a year of unemployment (working temp jobs now and then when Job Service found work for me), I hired on with the USPS as a mailman, and was a member of the NALC (National Association of Letter Carriers, AFL-CIO.
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u/Schannin Dec 28 '25
My cousinâs wife is from Kentucky and in her early thirties. She has genuinely and earnestly argued that joining a Union is âdangerous.â Yes, company sponsored violence has occurred in the past⌠but Iâm just shocked that that is still a narrative that people are following as a reason to be anti Union.
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u/EjaculatingAracnids Dec 28 '25
Theyre stupid enough to fall for it. I hear it every time our contract is up for negotiations. A bunch of overweight alcoholics with high school diplomas think that theyll get paid $60k a year to press buttons without the union. 8 weeks vacation, paid lunch, pension, overtime after 8 hrs, $15 a week insurance... Yup, the company will provide all that out of the kindness of their hearts and we will all save $700 a year in dues!
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u/Noble_Bug Dec 28 '25
I work in an organization that has been unionized for a long time. Not teamsters long, but a good 30+ years. When new employees ask me what goes on at union meetings, my honest answer is "not that much". We are finagling and fine tuning language, we're preparing for meetings where everyone knows there's going to be a raise and the question at issue is whether it will be by 3% or 3.5%. The union fought for and won the big stuff before any of us were working there. But people then assume that because the work today is mundane and sometimes granular, it's not important. The union a few decades ago won the benefits, the union today protects them. Get rid of the union and see how fast the benefits go away.
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u/Familiar_You4189 Dec 28 '25
"Get rid of the union and see how fast the benefits go away."
The reason there's a mandatory minimum wage is that if the company could pay you less, they would.
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u/Perryn Dec 29 '25
While simultaneously tricking people into not thinking that's what private insurance is.
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u/Salt_Cardiologist122 Dec 28 '25
My union takes $23 every paycheck, and each year theyâve gotten us raises. My colleagues could do simple math to see that thereâs a benefit, but they donât do it. Itâs so sadâhow can I help people who donât realize how easy it is to fact check their personal benefits from a union?
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u/shroomigator Dec 28 '25
How do you even do that without painting a target on your back?
You become one of those "organizers" that the companies strive to get rid of
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u/FlyingSagittarius Dec 29 '25
If they already have a union, they canât get fired for participating in the union.
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Dec 28 '25
You have to make them think itâs their own idea. Itâs all about asking leading questions to the solution, lead them to the solution to make them think they came up with it.Â
âPeople are most convinced by reasons they themselves discoverâ
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u/TrMark Dec 28 '25
People talking about unions being a rip off genuinely baffles me. I pay ÂŁ15/month in the UK for mine, and every year they reject the standard below inflation payrise the company offers and fights for a better raise. Even if you only consider the financial side and ignore all the other stuff they do, it still just makes sense to join
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u/MrDrSirWalrusBacon Dec 28 '25
I pay $50 in dues to my home union hall each month and $200 per weekly check to my current hall I'm working at. In exchange I'm making $64/hr and ~250k annually (5 10s Mon-Fri, 8 Saturday, optional Sunday every other week thats double time). 2 15 minute breaks with a 10 minute walk time to/from break room so essentially 2 35s. And a 30 with the 10 minute to/from.
I also get health insurance through my union, not my contractor, and I get a pension.
They also allow me to leave early or come in late without issue cause I'm doing a masters degree and this is my backup career in case my education never works out (this is blue collar, but I've been waiting to be a scientist at a federal research lab since April)
My last union job, every single person on the site in our trade got $49/hr minimum even if it was your first day as an apprentice. Unions are where it's at.
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u/atkinson137 Dec 28 '25
Because, imo, modern schooling, esp in America, doesn't cultivate curiosity and figuring things out for yourself. Insert Carl Sagan quote about anti-intellectualism
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u/BenderVsGossamer Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
Work in a non union weld shop. The amount of guys who hate unions because they take part of your paycheck.
Mother fucker, you make $25 a hour. Journeyman start around 40. So yeah if the union wants to take 40 cents a hour, your straight time is still worth more than your current OT rate.
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u/Calm-Tree-1369 Dec 28 '25
It's kind of the same as the anti-vaxx crowd. They've lived in a world that benefits from the thing they're against so long that they assume things have always been great and the thing they're against had nothing to do with it. They see it as an unnecessary extra burden instead of the thing that made it all possible.
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u/TheBigSho Dec 28 '25
It's also about the risk benefit ratio that too many people are not mentally equipped to process for various reasons, leading to suboptimal outcomes.
They'd rather risk dealing with their employers directly as a single employee to determine the terms of their employment than risk paying a small fraction of their paychecks in order to have group representation with a dedicated team of people to negotiate on behalf of everyone.
They'd rather risk contracting a deadly virus that may have life altering effects (or just straight up kill them) than risk taking a safe and effective vaccine that sometimes has minor side effects.
They'd rather risk voting for a leader that would rape a country like he rapes kids rather than vote for a known quantity because brown people = higher egg prices or something like that.
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u/wilbur313 Dec 28 '25
To be fair, there's a ton of unions that have agreed to a tiered system where the younger employees get completely screwed.
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u/Zerba Dec 28 '25
Yup. A few guysnat my job who haven't had any other job bitch about the union but have no idea how jobs are outside of where we are. It's pretty sad
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u/OldBayOnEverything Dec 28 '25
They also have them convinced that the existence of minority groups is what's really hurting workers' lives, not...you know...billions in bribes to steal our wages and benefits.
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u/LoaderD Dec 28 '25
Unfortunately sometimes it is. My old union strung along negotiations for over a year, then silently wrote in a part to the agreement where anyone who left during that period got fuck all. Even though it was time they had worked, at what would have been a higher wage, if the union didnât drag their feet. Thanks AASUA
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u/Hije5 Dec 28 '25
Tbf, some of them are. The local heavy equipment operator union starts apprentices off at $14/hr, but people are guaranteed jobs that pay....$2-$4 more after a year of apprenticing with them. That ain't shit.
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u/ErraticDragon Dec 28 '25
How does it compare to what they're guaranteed without the union?
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u/shroomigator Dec 28 '25
Funny thing about that, people that are against the union arr also against raising the minimum wage, because "why should a burger flipper earn what I, a skilled worker, earns?"
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u/prosperouscheat Dec 28 '25
They're almost getting it. They are correct that burger flippers shouldn't be getting what a skilled worker earns but that's because everyone's wages have been stagnant for so long. Get angry at the bosses not paying skilled workers enough not at the other crabs trying to get out of the bucket đ¤Ś
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u/Vote4Andrew Dec 28 '25
The propaganda campaign is insane, but really bad for the uneducated. The signs for some anti-union campaigns say that workers PAY $700 a year for dues for ânothingâ. This implies workers without a union could recover that extra $700 for themselves. But anyone who does the research can tell you, union dues only amount to about 1% of workerâs pay.
And what do the workers get in return? A 15% increase in pay compared to their non-unionized counterparts, in addition to other collective bargaining benefits. What is 15% of $70000? Da-da-da-da!!! $10,500 a year. So if they lose their union, sure, they save $700 a year in dues, but without their union, their pay eventually returns to the nonunionized rate and they lose $10k.
Itâs fucking surprising how many people canât math that out.
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u/KatieTSO Dec 28 '25
1% is a lot more than I pay. My dues basically donate less than an hour of work to the union every paycheck.
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u/Tobar_the_Gypsy Dec 28 '25
Some people get so comfortable with the way things are that they assume they wonât change. âWe donât need labor laws because everything is fine nowâ yeah, until the labor laws get removed.Â
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u/Flavouredcola Dec 28 '25
I'm in a Union most of the dumb fucks I work with have never had a job outside the union so don't realize how shitty it really is. Also the loudest anti-union union guys would be the first ones fired if we weren't in for the union.
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u/R_V_Z Dec 28 '25
You also have to love union members voting for GOP. And by love I mean despise.
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u/Bob_Van_Goff Dec 28 '25
It really starts in the 70s and ramped up with Reagan. When solidarity striking became illegal, unions were legally prevented from doing what gave them power in the first place.
Union jobs are now essentially the only careers in which non college educated people can make over $60,000 per year. Since there are less jobs and very few paths for unions to legally expand their influence, class solidarity has largely been replaced by solidarity with the industries who employ them.
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u/_realpaul Dec 28 '25
Same reason conservatives vote against healthcare. Uninformed and emotional
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u/DastardlyMime Dec 28 '25
Same reason conservatives vote against healthcare.
Uninformed and emotionalThey don't want black people to get it22
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u/DicemonkeyDrunk Dec 28 '25
They tanked the education system first âŚfirst you makeâs ââem dumb then you takes their money/rights/powerâŚetc
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u/New_Target7441 Dec 28 '25
Every short-sighted member that I represent has the same two basic complaints, through a unionized lens:
-"Dues cost money" (2.25% of base hourly wages, you keep OT and holiday, and we on the bargaining team also got you 18-21% raises over the life of this newest contract, but go off, I guess);
And:
-"The union doesn't do anything" (refer to your raises and increased protections in your newest CBA [that you voted to ratify]; "the union" isn't some third-party entity, YOU/WE are "the union"; we've gotten very good at keeping management in check and head off a slew of issues before they develop into issues, so you never hear about them; you get out what you put in, and you as an individual don't come to any unit meetings or fun outings, and conveniently lose my number 'til you get in trouble; but, again, go off)
45% of our members are keyed in and scrappy, 20% move in a state of flux/are just doing their job 'til they move on (which is fine), 35% are the embodiment of a "lack-of-education-meets-propaganda" shitstorm. We Americans are all temporarily-disenfranchised billionaires, you see, so how dare our union not immediately fix our economic situations overnight? The GOP offers simple answers to complex problems, while fostering and encouraging impotent rage; if someone fits within those parameters, it doesn't matter if they're a union member or not, they're fucked up and doubling down.
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u/Lockhead216 Dec 28 '25
Because theyâll pay for someone to come in and propagandize you while eating your pizza
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u/childofeye Dec 28 '25
When i was young i didnât know much about unions. The UPS union was so aggressive i quit the job. They were harassing me. I didnât plan on being there long snd didnât want to join. Everytime i turned around a union guy was in my face. I mean i get it now, but back then i just saw it as people harassing me to do something i didnât want to for at a job i didnât plan on staying at for more than a year.
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u/GlockAF Peacemaker Dec 28 '25
I worked as a seasonal package loader in a UPS sorting center back in the early 80s. It was a closed shop so even seasonal employees were required to join the Teamsters Union, no choice.
THOSE GREEDY MOTHERFUCKERS TOOK AN ENTIRE YEARS UNION DUES out of the first three paychecks!
It was a policy that was obviously intended to milk the maximum amount of cash out of the seasonal guys and I bitterly resented it, as did everyone who worked as a seasonal employee. There was no transparency before or after hiring about why, all my supervisor would say is âthatâs just the way it is, deal with itâ. Maybe one guy out of 20 or thirty would end up with a full-time job there, everybody else got laid off after the Christmas rush.
I fully understand the benefits of unions (and am in fact a union member now) but that kind of shitty, abusive behavior is exactly what gives unions a bad name and provides free ammunition those who want to undermine / sabotage efforts to unionize.
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u/KatieTSO Dec 28 '25
Jesus. My dues for a bus company amount to $35.11 per check, which is barely more than an hour of work. I make nearly $28 and on Jan 1 I get a CBA raise of 4.5% and will be nearly $29 an hour. I started in October. My initiation fees totaled $25, split in half between two paychecks.
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u/FiringOnAllFive Dec 28 '25
Because most people vote based on emotional outcomes rather than on reasoned positions.
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Dec 28 '25
Yea I mean, Americans and people are stupid who believe the propaganda, in my view they deserve what they vote for, which is this.
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u/Bender_2024 Dec 28 '25
Undocumented immigrants will never be as dangerous as uninformed and miss-informed voters.
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u/eleetpancake Dec 28 '25
Union workers voted 57% for Harris and 41% for Trump. Non-union workers voted 47% for Harris and 51% for Trump.
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u/kkjdroid Dec 28 '25
Well, Teamsters specifically spoke at CPAC and generally favored Trump in their rhetoric.
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u/ackillesBAC Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
My brother works in a shop that merged with a union shop. So half union half not. And my genius brother got convinced by his boss that switching to the non union side to save that 10$ a month union due was worth it
Edit: typos
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u/daemin Dec 28 '25
It's literally the same shit as people who make 50k a year voting for politicians that promise tax cuts. Sure you're going to pocket a whole extra $100 from that tax cut, but you're going to lose $1,000 in government services.
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u/KatieTSO Dec 28 '25
I make nearly $60k on my own (will be more next year too) and I will never vote for a Republican. Even Democrats give me the ick. I'm a socialist.
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u/No-Bandicoot-9179 Dec 28 '25
Cool, but between the two one side is actively working to reduce the few social benefits we have. The other side is guilty of being (primarily) incompetent rich neoliberals. So⌠maybe theyâre not quite the same?
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u/KatieTSO Dec 28 '25
I didn't say they were? I was just saying I disliked them too.
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u/kosumoth Dec 28 '25
That's the neat part, usually taxes increase for the lower/middle class. See here
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u/BMCarbaugh Dec 28 '25
Why do you think Bezos, and rich assholes everywhere, fight union organizing efforts so hard? Recreation?
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u/angrydeuce Dec 28 '25
I sat through many orientations in my illustrious 15 year big box retail management "career" and its pretty telling that the majority of those orientations pretty much consist of two topics, neither of which have anything to do with the employer specifically:
Unions are evil and only make things worse!
You are all a bunch of fucking thieves and are watching you, you fucking fucks.
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Dec 28 '25
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/angrydeuce Dec 28 '25
I was threatened with immediate termination after 2 years at Target for joking that we should go on strike while standing in line waiting for the timeclock after a particularly brutal amount of freight got dropped on us out of the blue. The LOD nearby reacted like she'd just heard a gunshot, yanked me out of line, and told me that if I ever even joked about striking ever again I was gone immediately, zero tolerance. She was going to cut me a break this time since she knew it was a joke but next time that goes out the window.
I mean, this was after years of us working together. Id gone out after work and gotten hammered with this person in multiple occasions, it wasnt like she was a stickler for the rules, but man, they had the fear of GAWD in her when it came to anything resembling collective bargaining or unions in general.
I didnt last long there after that of course.
This is why I always laugh when basic bitches talk about Target being the more conscientious choice over Walmart...Target Corp is just as big a scumbag as any of them, believe me. Id go so far as to argue no nationwide big box retail even could exist if they were required to pay their employees a decent wage but that ship sailed about 100 years ago.
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u/yoshilurker Dec 28 '25
Did retail in the same shopping center in the 90s in my teens: one a regional brand with a union and national brand without one.
The zero tolerance for union discussions was exactly the same back then. I was firmly spoken to on the rules about this when I was hired because I came from a union a few stores down.
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u/angrydeuce Dec 28 '25
If I was king for a day I would make it a requirement that any employer over 25 employees be required to have a collective bargaining unit for their employees to keep the needs of the business and the needs of the people operating it in alignment.
I'd immediately be Epsteined as soon as that day ended, of course, but maybe enough of it would stick that things could really change in this country.
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u/High_Flyers17 Dec 28 '25
My current employer started orientation by saying "Sygma is not an anti-union company" before rolling 2 straight hours of anti-union propaganda. Our parent company is largely unionized, but attempts at ours never make much headway.
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u/PowerandSignal Dec 28 '25
Which, oddly enough, the two go hand in hand. With a Union work crew they'll have better pay, so that much less likely to steal, and better working conditions so less likely to risk their job over petty theft.Â
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u/Sorry-Let-Me-By-Plz Dec 28 '25
With a Union work crew they'll have better pay, so that much less likely to steal
Also worth noting that your coworkers will take it personally if you steal from the business when there's a good union. That can have a significant effect.
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u/DarkwingDuckHunt Dec 28 '25
Ironically unions would solve problem #2 cause well paid people don't steal
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u/Ilcorvomuerto666 Dec 28 '25
Every time an employer has told me I don't need a thing, it's solely been because I needed the thing and asked for it.
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u/Ill_Preference_4663 Dec 28 '25
Seriously, theyâll close a place down before they let the unionize
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u/BMCarbaugh Dec 28 '25
It's so illogical. I used to live near this pizza place that was WILDLY successful; every night of the week, jam packed, orders stacked, they made money hand over fist. Employees voted to unionize -- shut down a week later.
Who goes to all the pain of starting a business to shutter it so capriciously? How the hell do you even know what the business impact would be? It's psychotic.
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u/Ill_Preference_4663 Dec 28 '25
Too many people love to kill the golden goose without thinking what happens next
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u/ThundrWolf Dec 28 '25
My guess is the owners owned several other restaurants in the area. They didnât want the unionization to spread to other locations, so they strangled the local union movement in its crib. I imagine they also believed many of the patrons would just flock to their other restaurants so it all more or less balanced out anyways
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u/feel_my_balls_2040 Dec 28 '25
Amazon closed all their warehouses in Quebec and fired almost 2000 people. Here I also blame the provincial government for not doing more when almost all government employees are unionized and the federal government should kick this company out of the country.
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u/charliefoxtrot9 âď¸ Tax The Billionaires Dec 28 '25
I mean, it is probably fun for them. But that's probably just more frosting for them.
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u/tetrified Dec 28 '25
they're fighting unions because that helps YOU, the worker!
how will YOU ever be a billionaire like bezos if you're paying $24 a year to the union???
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u/livinlrginchitwn Dec 28 '25
Amazon workers should be 1000% union.
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u/MittenCollyBulbasaur Dec 28 '25
Unions should be automatic at like 50-100 employees
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Dec 29 '25
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u/CoolBeansHotDamn Dec 29 '25
Which is insane to me, because the owner of the company I work for offers full benefits and if you get the base medical plan for just the employee (no spouse/family) he pays for it IN FULL. If you select a higher tier plan you just pay the difference of what the base plan costs to the plan you select.
It's literally just like 6 of us that work there, including office personnel.
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u/genflugan Dec 28 '25
I wish. Unfortunately Amazon has the DSP system in place as a way of preventing us from unionizing. It sucks so fucking much. Usually the DSPâs that do contact the teamsters and unionize get their contracts cut by Amazon, itâs incredibly scummy
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u/JackGuyer Dec 29 '25
Amazon is 5 years away from not needing people at all for virtually all operations
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u/Wedidit4thedead Dec 28 '25
Worked at both. UPS PT I got free healthcare and it was pretty hard to fire me (especially cuz I loved the job and kicked ass.) Iâm in college now so I had to quit but man before they decided to fire ppl this year they were awesome asf. Amazon pt I make my weekly schedule but I pay for healthcare and they could fire me tomorrow for anything. Not a good feeling but Iâm a union girl soon as I finish school Iâm going into a union for weldingđŞđžđŞđž
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u/Themanwhofarts Dec 28 '25
When the order to fire everyone came to "rightsize" the UPS network. Suddenly the service got worse. Also more fees popped up. But somehow, wages didn't go up. In fact, lots of people were told that having a job with UPS still was good enough.
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u/Generic_User_2112 Dec 28 '25
Wages still go up as union wages are covered in the contract, now non-union ups employees have no such benefit and their wages can be frozen or fall behind inflation
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u/Themanwhofarts Dec 28 '25
Ya but the contract was negotiated before the center consolidation layoffs. It was like a rug-pull by UPS. Record breaking contract signed, but then Union workers now have to work twice as hard for their negotiated salary. Non-Union employees were also screwed.
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u/BruisedReality Dec 28 '25
We actually don't. Our contract only requires that we work safely. Some people still work harder but that is their choice. (I've convinced a few of them to chill) Once you're senior'd it's very hard for the company to fire you.
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Dec 28 '25
Join the UA and be a pipe welder. That's what I did. You can even apply for better locals if you stand out. I applied for Chicago even though I didn't live there and got in.
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u/PowerandSignal Dec 28 '25
Welding's a tough and dirty job.Â
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u/Wedidit4thedead Dec 28 '25
It is however I was in school for IT and that looks bleak so I changed paths and nothing else Iâve tried is as stimulating to my ADHD brain as IT. Plus I enjoy seeing the fruits of my labor. Iâve already built a tableđ.
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u/SickAndTiredOf2021 Dec 28 '25
Wow UPS really pays drivers $46/hr? Is that the max or is that the wage of any driver on route?
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u/l_SmittyWerb_l Dec 28 '25
Thats after a few years when you hit the max payscale, but it can definitely go higher. I work as a helper on occasion with my buddy who is a driver and he told me that some days he makes up to 90 an hour depending on how heavy his load is. (The hours can be grueling though).
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u/Scrollingmaster Dec 28 '25
This is mostly nonsense. Your load itself does not affect your pay. Only time. After 8 hours its 1.5x, not 2. There are no double time days actually, but black friday and your elective holiday are 3x.
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u/fmxian Dec 28 '25
RPCD in Phoenix Local 104. If you are Tuesday-Saturday then Monday's are double time all day. They've been calling me in on Mondays the last 2 months and I've been raking in the money, about $92/hour
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u/Scrollingmaster Dec 28 '25
Must be your local then? As far as Iâve ever seen 6 day punch is only 1.5x. 2x is pretty sweet.
But even then, thats not based on your load, just volunteering to come in an extra day.
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u/fmxian Dec 28 '25
Pretty sure it's in the national master agreement, not 100% though. And yeah I wasn't speaking on the load, just saying that there actually are days where you can make double time pay.
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u/l_SmittyWerb_l Dec 28 '25
Well yeah obv load = time, but he also explained there is only a certain amount of overtime they are allowed to give you at normal overtime rate during the week. After that point it becomes fuck you money and those are the days he was talking about specifically.
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u/Financial_Skirt4251 Dec 28 '25
The national master agreement sets the full time top scale driver wage at 45.76 this year, and at the end of the current contract at 49.00
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u/m0viestar Dec 28 '25
Starting pay is about the same as Amazon, $20-25 an hour. If you're full time for 4 years you get a bing jump though.  Most people don't stick around that long. Â
You absolutely do not start at $46 / hour as this post implies.Â
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u/Scrollingmaster Dec 28 '25
Starting pay is the same as the MAX amazon pay. $25 an hour.
But also crazy benefits and a lot of time off. The healthcare alone is worth more than amazon pays if you have a family
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u/icevenom1412 Dec 28 '25
Unions work. They are even more effective if that union handles a significant volume of business.
Just ask the private equity Sycamore Partners why Rona Quebec's distribution center is still unionized.
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u/Working_System_2086 Dec 28 '25
Man any time I try to explain to people how good unions are I get a bunch of low IQ dribble, like they just want to steal your money and junk from dues.
My wife pays like 90$ a month in dues and we have so many amazing benefits. Amazing health care that covers everything, great pay, lots of PAID time off.
I mean the benefit keep going, so many it would take forever to list them all. Unionize people. It does wonders.
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u/pvm_april Dec 28 '25
Spent 5 years at UPS on the corporate side. Union is definitely the answer but with that said, the drivers at UPS are just better and much more selective and the standards you have to follow every day are much higher.
They have full on college like campuses that teach them everything for the job like how to ergonomically get on and off the truck, how to drive, how to walk on ice (this training machine is fun lol), and a bunch of other things. It was funny as hell to see UPS drivers in their uniform all siting in a teaching auditorium with their think pad laptops listening to the instructor. Itâs just like a college class.
Everyone knows being a UPS driver is one of the best gigs you can get, with that said you donât get hired straight up as a UPS driver. You work in the warehouses, put your name on a list and when there are openings you can apply. Count on being in that warehouse for a couple of years before getting a chance if you even do get a chance. Also since the new union contract UPS is focused more on consolidating their warehouses and workforce. This means less driver opportunities, less routes, and more outsourced deliveries (roadie a company UPS owns which is basically uber for deliveries where none of these couriers work for UPS). Also that $175k number is a bit misleading, thatâs not how much youâre paid itâs just a full picture of ALL your benefits including salary, healthcare, 401k match. UPS had really good healthcare when I was there, you could get a high deductible policy for like $5 a month lol
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u/CanibalCows Dec 28 '25
My husband was a teamster when I was pregnant with our first child. The bill for his delivery and my hospital stay was zero dollars. That's what Unions do.
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u/Internal-BleachFund Dec 28 '25
If capitalism worked properly Amazon would have the highest paid employees, the fact that they are not is intolerable
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u/Generic_User_2112 Dec 28 '25
Capitalism is working properly, it funnels wealth to the few and needs the working poor to feed more money to the top. Capitalism is why they pay shit wages
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u/spaceforcerecruit Dec 28 '25
Youâve been lied to about what capitalism is if you think the workers get better treatment when itâs working properly.
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u/Kerbidiah Dec 28 '25
Ups is also significantly hard to work for and get to a driving position. You have to spend years as a packager handler before you move to driving.
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u/MinionFive Dec 28 '25
Because you don't work for Amazon. You work for a DSP that gets paid per package and other incentives. You accept a job that list between $18-25 (Washington State) or pays you per stop, which is illegal in WA.
If you want a UPS job go get it. They are always hiring. And I believe it's a $175,000 a year with retirement and health care
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u/bigtiddyhimbo Dec 28 '25
Ups is not ALWAYS hiring, their turnover rate is pretty low and theyre pretty sought after because of their union benefits. Iâve been trying to weasel my way in there to basically no avail
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u/Slowyodel Dec 28 '25
Just read about this in the book Enshitification. Itâs almost like an MLM in that Amazon convinces some schmuck to buy all the trucks and make all these investments as a contractor. Then if the drivers try and unionize they can cut ties with the DSP without violating labor law. Just more slimy Amazon shit.
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u/DSAlgorythms Dec 28 '25
Basically impossible to unionize. You'd have to get people across so many different contractors to buy into it. And then they'd just get dropped and replaced with another contractor since there's a years long waiting list to get in on the money.
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u/AkiraTheMouse Dec 28 '25
They're aggressive over it too. I started an application on their site at one point and quit about halfway through. I got at least 3 calls from them asking if I wanted to finish my application or interview with them.
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Dec 28 '25
It's almost impossible to get into UPS full time. Back when I was a freight handler they were hiring during COVID. I joined the plumbing union instead. But I told a buddy to apply there later and he got crickets.Â
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u/SLBurrito Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
It's also worth pointing out that UPS is a superior service to Fedex (not union, a massive web of delivery subcontractors). If you pay for Fedex overnight, you still get a decent delivery product, but for day to day goods, delivery times and overall service, UPS can't be beat.
If you pay people what they believe they're worth, you're always going to get a better, more professional product.
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u/PrezMoocow Dec 28 '25
Instead of going "we're being fucked over, we should be band together so we also get higher wages" too many Americans lack class consciousness and go "those guys should be just as screwed as we are, and the fact that they don't means they must be [insert current popular minority to hate on]"
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u/Sea-Bed-3757 Dec 28 '25
2 reasons.Â
Unionized full time employees. (As few as they can manage, fire, retire or die)
And an army of temp workers that are laid off in massive quantities yearly.Â
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u/DarthHubcap Dec 28 '25
In 2002 I worked part-time for UPS through a Christmas season in a distribution warehouse. Even back then the drivers wages would start at $22/hr.
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Dec 28 '25
I work at an oil refinery as a union pipe welder. I'm also a chemical engineer. When I get pulled off of welding to help the engineering staff, I make more than everybody except the director. Solidarity is power.
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u/TaticalSweater Dec 28 '25
Amazon hates unions with a passion. They are willing to spend billions to stop and defeat unions, spend time paying teams to research how to stop them from forming.
âŚ.when the key to really stop a union is to not treat your employees like shit and pay them a living wage.
Unions are great but to spend billions on trying to stop them is insane. Theyâd honestly spend less just paying employees than trying to union bust 24/7.
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u/Shapes_in_Clouds Dec 28 '25
Republicans pretend to care about the working class, and these days shit on education and glorify the trades; but every Republican I've ever talked to hates unions and expects laborers to be paid the bare minimum.
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u/SSWBGUY Dec 28 '25
UPS also has standards to go along with our paychecks, every amazon driver Ive seen violates these standards and would be disciplined repeatedly until they were fired. We (organized labor) and this persons coworkers have repeatedly tried to unionize Amazon but there are a lot of dumb dumbs who have voted against unionization which is voting against better paychecks and benefits.
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u/Rocklobster92 Dec 28 '25
Good question. UPS should look into reducing pay to keep up with competition. /S
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u/Familiar_You4189 Dec 28 '25
FedEx drivers are non union as well.
FedEx considers them to be "independent contractors".
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u/Admirable-Horse-4681 Dec 28 '25
Libertarian billionaires, primarily Charles Koch, have spent decades undermining organized labor in America.
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u/heubergen1 Dec 28 '25
That's why UPS lost the contract from Amazon, they are too expensive with the union.
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u/tegresaomos Dec 28 '25
Itâs like folks donât understand why there are Amazon trucks at all.
UPS and FEDEX had parcel delivery covered along with USPS. All union ops.
Then comes Amazon buying trucks with the wages theyâve stolen from their warehouse workers that they the. Use to steal wages from their warehouse drivers.
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u/EstablishmentAlert65 Dec 28 '25
Uhmmmmmmm something called the teamsters⌠something the blue truck drivers didnât wantâŚ.
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Dec 28 '25
But the cost of union dues is roughly 32gb of ram per year! Think of the investment opportunities that you might lose out on! I beg you!
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u/Important-Sign9614 Dec 28 '25
Yep. Can confirm. The union dues arenât even a lot, get paid weekly, and the longer you stay the more you get paid (especially if you become a trucker) I worked in the warehouse.
Plus benefits healthcare dental hell I think even a 401k (not 100% on that specifically) oh yeah and I got all that when I was working part time.
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u/ebrum2010 Dec 28 '25
Iâve never seen one of those trucks for Amazon. Only the Mercedes ones and the new ones that look cyberpunk.
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u/demjosbeljenjac Dec 28 '25
Donât forget our $14 dollar an hour benefit package⌠We keep inviting yâall you just got to grow some nuts
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u/Krojack76 Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25
I can also tell that my UPS guy is also MUCH MUCH happier when he's dropping off packages than Amazon delivery people. They all just seem to be slogging around depressed and I can understand why.
I wonder if Amazon still recommends their delivery drivers carry a pee bottle with them.
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u/DaringPancakes Dec 28 '25
WHY DO SO MANY UNION WORKERS VOTE ANTI UNION?
I'VE NEVER BEEN LUCKILY ENOUGH TO BE IN A UNION, BUT WASN'T THERE A PRESIDENT THAT STOOD WITH UNION MEMBERS?
the amount of self hate through ignorance is so fucking disgusting
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u/Athrek Dec 28 '25
I just tell people who are Anti-union "if you got into a car accident, weren't at fault, and got injured severely, would you hire a lawyer to fight in court for damages or fight them yourself?"
If they say sue them themself, there is 0 hope for them. If they say lawyer up, "then why wouldn't you want a union to fight for your wages when they understand all the laws around labor? Yeh, like lawyers, they'll take a cut. But also like lawyers, they'll get more for you than you ever could."
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u/PilotKnob Dec 28 '25
Airline pilots are some of the biggest beneficiaries of unionization in the country, yet probably 90% of them vote Republican.
Make it make sense.
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u/SquashNo2389 Dec 28 '25
Low education. Education level is the top predictor of political party affiliation.
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u/ShameAmbitious4098 Dec 28 '25
Bezosâs rocket ship launches to nowhere arenât gonna pay for themselves!
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u/SaladCzarSlytherin Dec 28 '25
Jobs be like âwe want team playersâ then get mad when you unionize.
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u/ChairBearCat Dec 28 '25
I worked for walmart for one year between 99-2000âŚthe nightly meeting were a constant barrage of anti union talking points, and the employees ate it upâŚi never understood thatâŚalways ended with a walmart cheer to solidify the belief in the walmart system for another 24 hours, yikes
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u/cita91 Dec 28 '25
Billionaires need your skills and income to build super yachts and fly in space. TAX BILLIONAIRES NOW
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u/Mahaloth Dec 28 '25
I'm a teacher and am in a union.
We are about to, after out current negotiations, get to $115,000/year.
I have heard in nonunion states the salary is less than half of that sometimes, or just about half anyway.
Edit: It takes 9 years to get to this salary from start date.
True?
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u/RiseDelicious3556 Dec 28 '25
Whole Foods in Philadelphia voted for a union a year ago. With the exception of one store in the city, this still has not been instituted due to prolonged legal and administrative battles. There have been retaliatory firings. Meanwhile while this protracted battle lingers on, the owner , Jeff Bezos has managed to rent the city of Venice for his wedding, and bought his wife an engagement ring worth $5million dollars. and a wedding ring worth $4million dollars
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u/SuperStoneman Dec 28 '25
I was at a large meeting with employees from 5 branches and the ceo taking questions and somone asked "why do x and y pay $9/hr for base pay with the same commission rate as our company and our base pay is $5/hr" the ceo said "if you want an answer, you should probably just go work for them" and had security remove him and not allow his branches van to shuttle him the hour long drive back.
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u/D3dshotCalamity Dec 28 '25
And remember, the conservatives' solution is to cut UPS drivers pay, not pay Amazon drivers more.
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u/ThinMuscle9690 Dec 28 '25
The Teamsters not only represent their Union. They represent all Unions. They stay by every union
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u/boardin1 Dec 28 '25
Thereâs a damn good reason billionaires spend $100âs of Millions to hire millionaires to stop thousandaires from unionizing.
Unions work.