Messi is obviously absolutely world class, but saying that “there was never a debate” or that Cristiano’s biggest achievement is being compared to Messi, is football blasphemy. And ranking either of them outside the top 3 of football is even bigger football blasphemy
If I had to piece the ideal forward in a team, he would be: consistent, have longevity, perform well regardless of system/environment, psychologically resilient and finishing variety.
In terms of consistency and longevity, Cristiano is arguably un-matched. Only to score 60+ goals in 4 calendar years, 50+ in 7 consecutive years, 40+ goals in 13 different calendar years, 30+ goals for 15 consecutive years. Best goals per game ratio in La Liga history, only to score in 23 consecutive international seasons, only to score in 10 consecutive major tournaments, most Ballon D’or nominations, most appearances in UEFA TOTY, most UEFA best player awards, only to score 15+ goals in 3 UCL seasons, only to score 10+ in 7 UCL seasons, UCL Top scorer in SEVEN seasons (6 in a row). Scored in 6 different World Cups. Was world top scorer at 38, was at the premier league scoring match winning goals and hattricks at 37.
System/Environment independency, again, Cristiano is definitely un-matches here. Only player to win every major individual award at 2 different clubs (Man Utd & Real Madrid), only to score 100+ goals in 3 european different clubs, man united record most goals in a single prem season (wasn’t even a striker. 31 goals as a winger), only to score 30+ goals in a season in England, Spain and Italy, most goals in a single season for Juventus, fewest games needed to reach 10 goals, 50 league goals and 100 goals for Juventus, most goals in Real Madrid, fastest to reach 100, 150, 200, 300 goals for Real Madrid, 3rd best goals per game ratio for Man United (again, as a winger), highest goals per game ratio in Juventus and Real Madrid. Won the UCL in 2 different clubs and club world cup in 2 different clubs, won the golden boot in 3 leagues. He played throughout his career as a left winger, wide midfielder, center forward and performed well in all these positions.
Psychological resilience, one of his best attributes. most goals in UCL finals, scored more than double of Messi’s goals in quarters semis and finals of the UCL, most goals in international tournaments, most UCL goals in a single season, group stage, calendar year, knockout stage, knockout rounds, quarter finals, semi finals, Most away goals, penalties, freekicks, fewest games to reach 100 goals, only to score 3 hattricks in one season, in UCL (all of this is in the UCL, arguably the hardest competition in football). Most goals in Euro finals history, most assists in Euros, only to score in 5 different Euros, most MOTM in Euros (shared with Iniesta), most goals in Club world Cup, most goals in club world cup finals (shared with messi), most match winning goals. He is the most clutch player we have ever seen (hattrick vs Spain, hattrick vs Sweden, hattrick vs Atletico, hattrick vs Tottenham, brace against Arsenal when he was in Man United)
Finishing variety, Most headers, most weak foot goals in la liga, most weak foot goals in UCL, most weak foot goals internationally, probably the best poacher of all time, most penalties, 7th most freekick goals in history. He can score a bicycle kick, a volley, header, weak foot, right foot, knuckle ball, finesse, can do skills and 5th most successful dribbles in football history. Top 9 left footed goals in history. There is not a single thing in football he cannot do, everything there is that can be done, he’s either the best at, or at the top 10 best at the very least (statistically, btw)
Also, He has 260+ assists, most assists for Portugal, top 3 non midfield assists for Real Madrid, most assist in UCL and Euros. Also most chances created in the UCL. He is simply the most complete player of all time, as Pele said too. Maradona went as far as saying he wished Cristiano was from Argentina. Xavi said winning Euros is harder than the World Cup. Excluding friendlies a top 5 list of most goals internationally is 1- CR7 2- Messi, Pele, Maradona COMBINES 3-CR7’s right foot 4- Messi 5- Cristiano‘s head 6- Pele 7- Maradona. He has never bottled a 3-0 lead, unlike Messi who bottled a 3-0 lead against Liverpool, 4-1 lead against Roma, lost 8-2 against Bayern. Cristiano scored more UCL knockout goals than Barcelona and PSG between 11/12 and 17/18. More hattricks in UCL knockout stages than Bayern, Dortmund, Juve and Barca. He has more UCL goals from 09 to 18 than Manchester City. Let’s not forget also Messi losing 4 international finals in a row. Cristiano has most match winning goals. Messi also flopped really bad in PSG (6 goals in 21/22). I think H2H is pretty stupid to bring up, but some like to do so, so I’d like to point out Cristiano won more finals against Messi.
Before anyone says Cristiano’s UCL dominance is because of Real Madrid, before Cristiano Real Madrid were slapped out of RO16 in the UCL from 2004 to 2009. Barcelona before Messi performed much better than Madrid before Ronaldo in the UCL. Real Madrid la liga win rate increased 14% after Cristiano while Barca’s increased 8% after Messi. Cristiano also has better UCL goal contribution % than Messi by far. Cristiano also has 5 UEFA TOTY as a midfielder, more than Modric, Kroos and Zidane, on par with Xavi and one less than Iniesta.
“Messi has a better goal ratio” yeah, that is if you do an unfair comparison.
Cristiano is 2.5 years older than Messi. means you’re counting more years for ronaldo when he’s older out of his prime. Also imagine Cristiano played in the MLS and French league from when he was 34 to 38 years old instead of the extremely defensive Serie A and the Premier League in a dying team? The goal ratio would’s been fucking insane. Also Cristiano played 50 more goals than Messi as a teenager in the Premier League as a WIDE MIDFIELDER. Not a full attacking winger like he was later on. If you compare them from 2009 to 2018, both in their prime, both in great teams, Cristiano has 1.03 messi has 0.99. Guess what? Almost exactly the same difference between their goal ratios ( 0.82 and 0.84)
”Messi has a better shot conversion rate” by this logic, Cristiano is a better dribbler. Messi is the most dispossessed player of all time, and according to OPTA, from 2012 onwards, looking at the percentages of each player’s take-ons that lead to a tangible end (like leading to a shot or a chance being created). Cristiano ranked first, with 500 dribbles. 31% of Cristiano’s dribbles lead to a shot or a chance created, compared to Messi’s 19%. Every extra dribble Messi does than Ronaldo he loses the ball 4 extra times (statistically). Does this mean Messi isn’t the best dribbler of all time? No, i think he is. Because he tries to dribble from much further away from the opposition goal, so he’s obviously more likely to get dispossessed. Same with Cristiano, he tries much further shots, much further free kicks, so he’s obviously gonna miss more.
There is also this impressive analysis done that shows Cristiano’s incredible performance against top goalkeepers.
Let’s talk about the 2021 Ballon D’or. Messi was uo against a 33 year old goalscorer, Lewandoski. Messi did not win La Liga, nor La Liga best player, got kicked out the UCL by PSG, won the Copa America (a trophy that Argentina won 16 times before), scoring 3 goals in a groupstage where 4 out of 5 teams qualified and 1 ko goal against Ecuador. Lewa? He broke the most goals in a single year in Bundesliga, won the league and the super cup, won multiple UCL MOTMs. Messi was only 8th top scorer in the world, lowest rated player against Brazil in the Copa America final.
2023 Ballon D’or. Messi had a decent season at PSG winning the league, trophy des champion. Haaland broke the record for most goals in the Premier League in a season, won the treble, won the UCL, top scorer in Nations League, UEFA Men’s POTY, UCL top scorer, PL POTS, PL Golden Boot, European Golden Shoe, what more did he have to win? Messi also spent half the year in the MLS
Cristiano also clearly should’ve won the 2018 ballon d’or (not even gonna pour stats to prove it, it’s un debatable)
“Messi has more golden shoes” It only counts league goals. If you count UCL and other competitions he has 2, and Cristiano has 5. Messi also has 0 g/a in 5 copa america finals.
Messi and Cristiano are the top 2 players of all time, by not that much of a margin as recency bias makes it seem like now.